Ember Home Revenue, Valuation & Funding (2024)

[00:00] Hey, folks. My guest today is Kurt Avarell. He's the co founder and CEO of Ember, where he's responsible for leading the development and execution of long term strategies and identifying key opportunities for growth within the industry. He's obsessed with helping people own the vacation home of their dreams, where they can create lasting memories of family and friends. He's a serial entrepreneur and has taken more than one company from inception to scale, having raised over 70,000,000 in [00:19] venture capital financing at his prior startups. [00:22] >> Kurt, you ready to [00:23] take us to the top? [00:24] >> Absolutely. Thanks for having me. [00:25] You bet, man. [00:26] So before we get into Ember real quick, quick on your backstory. So what was your last company? [00:31] >> Company is called Canopy. So Canopy is in the is a SaaS software solution for accountants. [00:38] Ah, interesting. And were founder there or did you join a little later on? [00:40] >> I'm the founder. Yep. Solo founder and, yeah, took it from inception through scale and it continues to do really, really well. [00:49] That's amazing. What year did you launch that business? [00:51] >> 2014. [00:53] And this is the accounting practice management software? [00:56] >> Yeah. Yeah, exactly. [00:57] Yeah. GetCanopy. Fascinating. Okay. So that was 2014. And then I guess what made you leave Canopy and jump into Ember? [01:03] >> So I left in 2019, took a bit of a sabbatical and then kind of went back to my roots. My family is kind of a generational home builder. And so my parents and then also my grandparents built second homes for people in Lake Arrowhead, California, which is a destination outside of Los Angeles. [01:22] Interesting. Now, how did you replace yourself? I mean, obviously, I think you guys raised significant capital there. How much did you raise at Canopy? [01:29] >> We raised at the time that I left, it was about 70,000,000. [01:33] Yeah. So that would have been what? That would have been just post series C? [01:38] >> Mhmm. It was like a B a B one, I think. [01:41] Yeah. You guys have quite the fun. I'm looking at you have quite the funding history. Not traditional. There are some debt mixed in. There's some up, down all over the place. [01:50] >> Yeah. Yeah. [01:50] Yeah. Okay. So I guess that's a good lesson here first too before we jump into Ember. How did replace yourself as founder? So leave it in good hands and make sure you're exiting gracefully there. [01:59] >> Yeah. Mean, I think like as founders, have to realize that, there's gonna be a time when you're there with the company growing it, and then there's gonna be a time when it's time to move on. And for me, it was like a deeply personal decision to move on to the next thing. The way I viewed it is I think, you know, I thought that there, you know, A, after five years of being a founder at a [02:21] >> high growth startup, you're ready for a sabbatical. And so taking a sabbatical probably one of the best things I've ever done. And then, you know, B, I think, you know, as an entrepreneur, what I love to do is build and create. And so I knew that I could go out and build, you know, the next, you know, the next thing. And that's what really gets me, you know, gets, that's what motivates me. It's what keeps me [02:43] >> going in the morning and gets me up and rolling. [02:46] And are you able to share when you left there in 2019? You sort of went from zero in 2014 to how much AR when you left? [02:52] >> Oh, yeah. No, I'm not able to share. Unfortunately, yeah. [02:55] No problem problem You're always under strict NDAs. [02:57] >> That's the way it works. [02:59] Yeah. I mean, it's your company. That was three, four years ago. I'm I'm I'd be surprised if those are still active today. You can't share anything about the range you grew it to besides the amount of capital you raised? [03:08] >> Yeah. Just the amount of capital raised. [03:09] I just think it's terrible to judge any company on how much capital they raise. It's a horrible metric of [03:13] >> Oh, 100% agree. [03:15] 100% Okay. All right. Ember, you go back to your roots. Why vacation homes? Why partial ownership if that's the model? And explain the marketplace to me. [03:24] >> Yeah. So we kind of fit right in between, you know, an Airbnb and a whole home vacation home, right? So if you think about your options, you have a handful, right? When you go on vacation. Our thesis is, we're looking for people who are going to the same vacation destination on a regular basis, right? These are typically vacation destinations that sit right outside of a large metropolitan area. So it'd be St. George, Utah, which is a [03:50] >> gateway to Zions National Park to Salt Lake City. It'd be Bend, Oregon to Portland. It might be the Hamptons to New York City, or, you know, Cape Cod to Boston, where you're going on a regular basis, right? And for that, your options are basically to Airbnb, which is, you know, fairly expensive as we know, and then, or you buy a home outright. But the challenge with buying a home outright, I mean, comes with the benefit of [04:15] >> having the home and being able to use it whenever you want. The downside is most second home owners don't use the home that often. And so, you know, they're only, they think they're gonna be there six months out of the year, but they end up only being there six to eight weeks out of the year. And then it's just, that second home becomes a second job because homes are work. And, you know, whether it's just fixing [04:36] >> a faucet or paying your property taxes, that's just work. It's just a lot of things that are going on in that home. So what Ember does, it's kind of bridges a gap. It sits right between an Airbnb and a full home ownership where we take a home and we buy it with an LLC and then split it into eight different shares. And a person can buy anywhere from one to four shares of that home. Now think [04:59] >> about these homes, these are high end vacation homes. The goal is to like make it so that when you walk in, there's a wow factor. Your friends and family walk in, it's there. When we buy the homes, you know, they're high end, then we also furnish the homes and with high end furnishings and hand it over to the owner group totally turnkey. At that point, we manage the property so that we abstract all of the work [05:22] >> that comes with a second home away from the ownership group so that they can just enjoy their vacation, but while still retaining that ownership in the asset that can appreciate over time. [05:33] Oh, what's going on there, YouTube? Good to see you guys. Now imagine this. You love watching these interviews with SaaS founders, but imagine if we took all of the valuation data out from over 2,807 interviews I've done manually. Saves you a lot of time. Well, we've done this. We've built it into the beautiful interface inside of Founderpath. Check this out. I'll show you how you can access this in a second, but you log in, you connect [05:56] your Stripe account, you see your valuation real time, you can see what changed over the past eighty eight days and even set goals for valuation this year. Now the secret evaluation is there's many different ways to value a SaaS business. So the reason you're gonna see three or four different valuations inside of your Founderpath dashboard, this is all free by the way, is because depending on who's doing the buying of your SaaS company, you're gonna get [06:21] a different valuation. A VC is gonna pay a different valuation, private equity firm is different. If you're gonna do a minority sale, that's different. And if you sell the whole business, that's a different valuation. You can see all those when I hover over here. Right? So the teal is what a VC would pay. Yellow is what private equity and red is if you sold the whole thing outright. Now what's cool about this is this is not [06:43] built off random data. Again, you guys hear these interviews on YouTube. All these datas are built from real time valuation data points founders share with us on the show. So traction, 1,200,000 seed round, 3.7 raise. They sold 22% of their business. Go in here and filter by the event. Maybe you only wanna see companies that have sold the whole business. Well, here are a bunch that have been acquired, the valuation and the multiple. Maybe you're going [07:09] out right now and you're raising your seed round. We'll go in here and look at all this recent seed deals that went down, what they raised, what valuation they raised at, and what percent that they sold. There's never been a larger dataset of SaaS valuations than what you can get now inside of Founderpath. And we're thrilled to bring it to you. Alright. We're gonna go back to the YouTube video here in a second, but if you [07:30] wanna check this tool out, if you wanna jump in and sign up, you can check it out for free to get your valuation at this link. This link, founderpath.com/products/valuations. Or if you go to founderpath.com and hover over products, click on get your valuation here, and go ahead and sign up to give it a whirl. Again, all that valuation data live right inside the platform. I hope to see you there. Alright. Let's jump back into the interview. [07:58] Yep. Let's look specifically at 2293 North Serratos Road, Palm Springs, California. You've got it listed right now up on the side as potential buy two hundred twenty four thousand five sixty. Now is that what you would pay for one eighth ownership or is that the total price of that? That's not the total price of the house. [08:12] >> That's the one eighth ownership. That's right. [08:14] Yeah. Now [08:15] >> what that does, gives you six weeks out of the year at that home. And, you know, if you wanted to be there six months out of the year, you buy, you know, half the home instead of instead of one eighth, which we have some customers who do. [08:27] Yeah. So 224,000 for one eighth, the home price is about 1,800,000 total. If you wanna buy more than forty four nights per year, you just buy two, three, four, five eighths of the Have ownership you pre negotiated basically almost like a ROFR with the current owner or an option agreement with the current owner? How do you generate the supply on your marketplace? [08:47] >> Yeah, so for most of our homes on the marketplace, we actually go in and buy the home. We have a pretty good sense of what our buyers want in their homes. And so we go buy the home in the first instance, and then we then market the home to, you know, to the buyers. In this case with the home in Palm Springs, that's a potential buy. We have two different categories of homes. We have homes that [09:11] >> are for sale. So you can look in Newport Beach, you'll see some there. Those homes that are for sale are homes that we actually own. And now we're selling, actively selling shares in those properties. The potential buys like the one in Palm Springs, that's a home that we could buy if we had enough interest in the home. So we kind of put the potential buys up there to provide some diversity and then also gauge interest in [09:37] >> that particular home. [09:38] What prevents someone sophisticated like a Blackstone to hire a data engineer to scrape your site, Pacaso and others, where you have basically labeled these yellow labels potential home, just go buy them ahead of you, right ahead of your ability to close it if you have interest? [09:50] >> Yeah, they could. I mean, they definitely could. Thing is this is a massive market. It's a massive market. We're talking about the largest asset class in the world real estate. And so we think there's gonna be a couple large players and we kind of welcome that. It's a new asset class. There's a lot of education layers, but people who buy in, they love it. They love the experience. So right now it's basically the two big players [10:18] >> in the space are Pacaso and Ember. There are couple others that are smaller, but those are the two big ones. [10:24] And how do you measure size? Is it literally GMV through platform number of closed deals? [10:29] >> Yeah, I mean, would look at it kind of an inventory. So, you know, clearly, you know, Pacaso has been very aggressive and is a couple of years ahead of us on their growth trajectory. So they've got inventory, you know, coast to coast and Ember is mainly on the West Coast. So it's Oregon, California, Utah. [10:48] Interesting. And I mean, what would you [10:53] I guess you can look at number of unique properties. You can add up the total amount of the value of the properties, like the 1,800,000 place in Palm Springs. Like, I mean, what do you try to get to or how far can you stretch your supply side here? I mean, do you wanna have a 100,000,000 of sort of listings on the platform or what's that number? [11:09] >> Yeah, I mean, I think it will get very big. Yeah, so we've been doing this for ten months. My co founders and I, and then our team at Ember and the company's grown very quickly. So right now we have, you know, just shy of right around $15,000,000 of inventory that's available on the website. That's homes that we actually have purchased and are for sale. So I think that will grow into the hundreds of millions over the [11:35] >> course of the next few years. You know, the way we think about it, if you look out five to ten years, which is what you gotta do in a startup, right? You gotta think about what this will be. It's gonna be a massive marketplace where people are buying and selling shares in these homes. And it's the way that we, you know, our thesis is that this is how people will buy vacation homes. The old way of [11:55] >> buying whole homes, which with all the work and costs that comes with that will start to fade. And certainly there'll be a segment of the market that will still buy the home outright. But for most people, they the, they wanna be able to show up and have a worry free vacation and not really have to deal when, you know, when they leave at the end of their vacation, they leave all the troubles of the home behind [12:14] >> to Ember. So, yeah, we think that there's like a, you know, multi $100,000,000, you know, certainly, you know, potentially into the billions of dollars of inventory if you go out ten years and that's kind of where we're headed. [12:27] Mhmm. So Ember got going about ten months ago. Did I heard that correct? [12:31] >> Yeah. [12:31] And so how, you said you've purchased already $15,000,000 to feed the inventory we currently see on the site? [12:38] >> Yeah. So we have $15,000,000 live. We've actually sold quite a lot more than that. [12:45] Oh, interesting. So over the past ten months, you've bought way more than 15,000,000. 15,000,000 is just what you bought currently that hasn't sold yet. It's sort of in the Yep. Middle right [12:53] >> That's actually for sale on the website right now. [12:55] I see. I see. How much have you moved over the past twelve months? [12:59] >> It's in the tens of millions. Yeah. Oh, wow. We've moved in the tens of millions of inventory across the website. So there are a lot of homes that we have purchased and sold that are no longer listed on the website. Obviously, once we sell them, we take them off the website. [13:12] Yep, yep. Do you think you can break a $100,000,000 of sort of GMV, you know, this year? [13:18] >> Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Based on the current growth, a 100%. [13:22] Do macroeconomics matter? Interest rates going up, people can't get loans as easily? You know, does this They do matter. [13:27] >> Yeah, they do matter. You know, I think, you know, we're obviously high in vacation homes. It's usually a discretionary spending. We watch it pretty closely. You know, that said the growth trajectory to date hasn't been impacted. We're continuing to grow in what I would characterize as kind of the top, you know, 1% of startups. [13:45] And [13:46] >> the company operates, we're pretty tight lipped about like absolute numbers, but I can tell you we operate pretty close to a breakeven. Like we've not burned hardly any cash. Most of the cash that we put on the balance sheet is to buy inventory. [14:02] >> So, I think like you could see a three, four, five X growth over the next twelve months, you know, based on what we know of the market over the last twelve. [14:11] Where'd you get the cash to buy up all the inventory? I mean, to get going. [14:16] >> So it's a combination of the equity dollars that we raised from the venture side. And then we also layer in a debt, some debt on That top of gives us kind of the purchasing power. You know, the one thing I'd mentioned that you brought up was the interest rate. So typically when you think of like a one eighth ownership in a home, you're not thinking like, oh, you know, that's something that can be financed, right? That [14:36] >> in fact, historically that's not a product that would have been financeable, but that's actually not the case with these shares. Like these shares can be financed. We have a partnership with a bank that finances these shares at a low interest rate. In fact, in the Newport Beach homes, the interest rate's 4%. So it's actually less expensive than a traditional mortgage in kind of the current environment, which is amazing. [15:02] Very interesting. Now you mentioned equity. So it sounds like you've closed a seed round. When was that and how much was it for? [15:07] >> Yeah, so we closed a seed and an A, which we kind of announced together at a $17,400,000 financing. The A led by Peter Thiel. So we were super excited about that to have him lead that financing. And we closed that in February. [15:25] Okay. And sorry, if you split that out, how much was the Series A? [15:29] >> The Series A was 15 and the seed was 2.4. [15:34] Interesting. Okay. So a lot of your early inventory was really fueled by, it sounds like a great debt deal you got done, which is nice because there's real collateral here to get a debt I deal mean, when you took about FinTech and SaaS today, you're seeing people raise these warehouse facilities and bankruptcy remote SPVs, and there's no collateral except like software contracts or invoice factoring. Right? Did you sort of use the same structure, but your collateral [15:54] is not a contract or an invoice, it's the actual house? [15:56] >> Correct. Yep. [15:58] Interesting. And how much, I mean, you obviously have track record, right? So you have history here. I mean, how big of a debt facility are we able to raise on day one to go fuel this supply? [16:07] >> So we, you know, we have raised, you know, roughly, well on the debt side, it's, there's several different sources of debt that we use to make this happen. And, know, it's probably in the 20 to $30,000,000 now on the debt side and the combination of everything collectively. [16:26] Okay. Okay. Interesting. And do you wanna keep holding that debt even when you move that house off your site because buyers buy all eight shares? Because obviously that's a revenue stream for you potentially, right? You can pass those costs on. [16:38] >> Yeah, once, so it's really just designed to be acquisition debts. We'll acquire the property in the first instance, and then the property will move hands to the new owners. If that owner decides to finance a portion of their purchase of the share, then there will be some debt that remains on the property. But in a lot of our homes, it's been cash buyers. So, you know, debt is financed out entirely and then the owners own the [17:01] >> home outright kind of indefinitely. [17:03] And you can sort of recycle there. Very interesting. Let's averages are dangerous, but it helps really understand the marketplace quickly. What's the average sale price of the home on the platform? [17:12] >> So it depends on the geography. In St. George, Utah, which again is if you've ever seen the Red Rock, you know, of Southern Utah, that's where St. George is. So it's a beautiful area. It's actually a very big vacation destination. You know, your homes are typically between 2 and $3,500,000 In Newport Beach, that ranges from 4.5 to $8,000,000. You know, so we have two homes that are actually on the low end, you know, was 4,000,000, but [17:43] >> that's you're talking about a home that's in a stunning neighborhood and, you know, 90 steps to the sands. [17:50] Yeah, they're beautiful. I mean, I'm looking through a bunch of them now, they're beautiful. So it sounds like sometime across, look, geography matters, but somewhere between sort of a 3 to 4, maybe $5,000,000 sort of averages around the sale price. Help me understand how you guys make money. You sell a place for $4,000,000. How do you make money? [18:04] >> Yeah, so we're super transparent about it, right? Like our goal is to make sure that the consumer, when they come in and look at it, they understand exactly how the pricing works. So we purchased the home outright. We provide, you know, the REPC, which is the real estate purchase contract to the customer so they can see that this is what we paid. And this is all listed on the website. Then we add furnishings on there. So [18:26] >> let's just take an example. Let's say it's a $2,000,000 or let's say it's a $4,000,000 home down in Newport Beach. We'll break this out as $4,000,000 for the real estate, another $250 to $300,000 for the furnishings. That includes, you know, closing costs, you know, really well appointed home, window treatments, appliances, etcetera. We also throw in like, you know, beach cruisers and things like that so that when people show up at the houses, it's like they have [18:55] >> all the toys that they would expect to have at the beach. And then where we make the money is on that, you know, we're right now at $4,300,000 the $4,000,000 purchase price of the home, 300,000 of furnishings. We take a 12% uplift. So we'll take that 4.3, multiply it by 12%, and that's where Ember makes us money. So we break that out as kind of line items so that everybody can see exactly where that revenue comes. [19:21] >> Now that's a one time revenue source. On the recurring side, and this kind of fits into both kind of the SaaS and kind of PropTech side of things, there's a platform fee. So that platform fee is a $100 a month per share. That covers the management of the LLC and then a tech layer. So there's an app. The app is what handles all the scheduling. You can kind of think about it like an Airbnb, you know, [19:45] >> scheduling app where you've got a calendar, you can go into any time. So there's not set weeks. This is not a timeshare. This is not like, Hey, you get, you know, the forty fourth week of the year. It's a first come first serve. You can come down for one night or fourteen nights. And [20:02] >> then property management, right? Actually managing the property in kind of a traditional property management sense. That's kind of the recurring revenue side of the business. [20:10] And how many shares do you think you'll sell this year? [20:14] >> Well, we've had over a 100 families buy in to Ember to date over the past ten months. And [20:22] >> yeah, we expect to double or triple that number toward the end of the year or so. [20:28] And are most times those families are buying one share? So it's a one to one ratio? [20:32] >> Most families right now are buying one share. We've just added the financing layer. And I think with the financing layer, you're gonna see, you know, more people buying two shares, a quarter of the home, having more time at the house. [20:45] Yep. Yep. Okay. Good. So I mean, we could take a 100 families each owning about one share times a $100 a their monthly. I mean, you're already at $10,000 in MRR, not including your 12% uplift. [20:54] >> Correct. [20:55] Yeah. Okay. Wow. Fascinating. And you said earlier, you have 15,000,000 sort of available today, but you've already sold multiples of that. So if we assume conservative 30,000,000, we could take 30,000,000 times 12% uplift. Right? [21:04] >> Good. Yeah. [21:05] 3,600,000 already there on uplift. Months in is pretty good. Good. [21:10] >> Pretty good for ten months. [21:11] Why is that I mean, that's actual. Right? I mean, why would it not be 12%? Have you always had 12%? [21:16] >> Yeah. It's always been 12%. [21:17] Okay, so there we can brag about you a little bit. Okay, that's pretty good for ten months in. [21:20] >> That's not too bad. [21:22] Is the model working? Do you think you anticipate any pricing changes? Is 12% too high, too low? [21:27] >> I think the model is working. The value that Ember provides and the reason people are willing to pay a 12% uplift on their shares, because we're unbundling an asset, right? You're taking an asset that was previously unavailable to a group of buyers and you're making it more affordable and turnkey for them. And because of that, they're willing to pay a little bit of a premium. It's kind of like, you know, the analogy that one of my [21:52] >> co founders uses is like, you know, you can buy a six pack of Coke back in the back of the, you know, the grocery store that's not cold and on the shelf for a couple bucks, but you inevitably pick up that cold one that's like, you know, already set out in the refrigerator, in the aisle, in the checkout aisle. And so you're essentially just taking that asset and unbundling it and there's a lot of value in [22:13] >> that. So I would say, yeah, a 100% we've got pretty strong product market fit. We've actually had more of an issue keeping up with demand on the buy side and being able to get the inventory, which is always a good problem to have in a startup. [22:30] Yep, no, that's tough. Now, in terms of funding, obviously dilution, you wanna manage that. You've been through this rodeo before, so you know all about dilution with your last company, but most folks say, you know, closing series A's, they're selling, know, call it 10 to 15% of the business. Were you sort of pretty standard there? [22:43] >> Yeah. I'd say it's pretty standard. [22:44] >> Yeah. Okay. Got it. [22:45] So you're you're talking like a 100,000,000 valuation, something something around there? [22:49] >> Mhmm. Okay. Interesting. [22:50] What's team size today? How many folks? [22:53] >> So we're just shy of 30 people right now. [22:55] 30. And how heavy on engineering? How many engineers? [22:58] >> On the engineering side, that makes up, you know, roughly five. So it's interesting. Yeah, five of the 30. [23:06] Okay. Five. And I mean, look, anyone listening is gonna go, wait, this guy's rich. Why does he want to sell 10%, 20% of his business over two rounds, the seed in series A to investors? Why not sort of be greedy, bet on himself and keep as much to a 100% as possible? How would you answer that? [23:20] >> You know, there's a couple things. One is, you know, it's a fairly capital intensive business. Obviously we got to go out and acquire the property in the first instance and then sell the property. So there's reasons to have a lot of cash on the balance sheet so that you can take that cash and leverage it. I also think that there's gonna be a couple big players in this space and we're kind of starting to see those [23:43] >> players form. And, you know, the way we view this kind of five, ten years out is this is a, you know, a nationwide marketplace and also a worldwide marketplace where people are buying and selling, are buying and selling shares. And I think speed to market is really critical for marketplaces. If you get out there and kind of establish the name, that's what gets you in kind of a, in a, in a, you know, first or second [24:05] >> position. And so we're, we're going to be pretty aggressive and to be aggressive, you know, it's helpful to have the insight and backing of venture capitalists. [24:15] Yeah. I mean, look, this is my preferred way of living, right? I'm here in my house in Austin right now, but I travel most of the time. My preference is to have five or six cities I'm in each year. And I go a week here, a week there, I'm able to do this. So the challenge with something like Ember is if I wanna become an Ember loyalist and go on today, well, there's only really five cities [24:31] I can spend my time in. I love Barcelona, you don't have Barcelona, I love whatever, I'm making this up, Sayulita in Mexico, you don't have that yet. So like there really are network effects here, right? Whoever gets the most inventory, the quickest wins. Isn't that true? [24:43] >> 100%. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, [24:46] interesting. And you feel like you can catch up? I mean, what's your mousetrap? How do you catch up to like a Pacaso? [24:53] >> So I think there's a couple of things. I mean, I think like, you know, A, this is, I mean, this is a massive, like I mentioned, it's a massive asset class and there's no way that, you know, one player can kind of capture an entire market. It's not, this is not an Airbnb. Like you think about an Airbnb where you go to an Airbnb and you go there on you go there, it doesn't matter where you're [25:14] >> traveling in the world, right? If you're gonna go out to, you know, Barcelona or to London or, you know, to Newport Beach, you're probably gonna go to an Airbnb and go to single source. This is not really that, right? This is a very localized regional, you know, home buying is a very regional localized, you know, I think buying process. And it's also a much larger asset class. So one is I think that there's space for several [25:43] >> players to coexist. Two is, you know, we're in a slightly different price range than Pacaso. Pacaso's in the ultra luxury side of the business, right? Like, you know, taking what was available to, you know, one tenth of a percent of Americans and making it available to the 1%. [26:01] What do think their average sale price is? You think it's closer to like $9 or $10,000,000? [26:04] >> Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. If you browse kind of through their Newport Beach homes, it's just a much higher price point. You know, two to three X what Ember is. Where, you know, Ember is coming down market a little bit and say, maybe what's available to the 3% is now becoming available to the 20 to 25%. And so that democratization is, you know, part of our strategy. [26:29] >> You know, even if there's encroachment on those pricing, you know, there's just, again, there's just so much space in the market that it doesn't, it's not too concerning. So, you know, in our minds, it's just expansion, right? To your point, we have people who wanna have a desert home, a beach home, a mountain home. And so as we expand, it's like, you know, get to the East Coast quickly. Now that we've kind of got a handle [26:50] >> on the West Coast and continue to build out the West Coast, then East Coast and then Europe. [26:57] >> I think, you know, I think it's the makings of a very big business for, you know, for both of us. [27:04] So I'm in Bend, Oregon. Love this place that sleeps fourteen, six beds, seven baths. I'm gonna buy at $409, $419,000 for one eighth of this share. The flip side of this is though I sort of have eight co founders. Three years from now, markets are way up. Everything's up. And I'm like, wow. This little share is worth a lot of money. I wanna exit and go move to Cape Town. What if there is no buyer on Ember? [27:27] I can't just list my house with a realtor because there's eight, there's seven other co founders I have to get to agree with me. You know what I mean? [27:33] >> Oh yeah. So this is the magic of Ember. So when you're ready to sell your home or your share in your home, you can sell it at any time. [27:43] >> Know, because Guarantee that, you'll buy it? [27:47] >> You can sell it on on the MLS with the real estate agent at any time at whatever price you want. So let's say that the home went up, you know, 30% and now instead of 410,000, you're sitting at over $500,000 for that share. You go list it on the MLS and Ember will help you do that. [28:06] >> And then you sell that share to another buyer and you can buy a share out in Cape Cod or wherever you wanna buy. That- Interesting. The amazing thing, and this is part of the magic is unlike a full home where you have to actually go through, you know, underwriting and title and etcetera, this is like a twenty four hour transaction. You list the...