How Binderr Reached $3K MRR With 6 Customers in 2023 (Interview with CEO Jacob Appel)

Introduction and Company Overview

Nathan Latka

00:00As binderr.com with two R's on the end does $500 per customer per month today, they have six customers. So 3,000 in monthly recurring revenue. Jacob has invested so far over $2,000,000 of his own money in the business, mainly to pay for the team. There's 18 full time he's burning called a $100,000 per month, but has a lot of conviction on the vision of what he's trying to build. He got that money by the way from his

00:22first exit. Now plowing it into binderr, which is helping folks that serve it, accountants, lawyers, CSPs and Malta help them service their customers faster in a more automated fashion. They're launching now looking to scale up their customer base, scale up the team and obviously scale revenue. We'll see what happens next. Hey folks, my guest today is Jacob Appel. He loves building companies, had a nice exit from Bolt in 2023 and is now building his life's work

00:48with company called binderr.com, which helps you automate the workflow of CSPs. All right, Jacob, ready to take us to the top?

Jacob Appel

00:57>> Let's do it Nathan.

Nathan Latka

00:58Real quick, what's a CSP? Is it customer service professional?

What Is a Corporate Service Provider

Jacob Appel

01:03>> Corporate service provider.

Nathan Latka

01:05Corporate service provider. Okay. Was a

Jacob Appel

01:06>> bit off. So that would usually be like a accountant lawyer.

Nathan Latka

01:11Yep. Now before we before we jump into that world, automate workflows of accountants and lawyers, you mentioned the 8 figure exit from Bolt. Were you a Founder of Bolt?

Jacob Appel

01:21>> No. I owned the franchise in a in a few countries down in the Mediterranean and Mhmm. Exited that last year.

Nathan Latka

01:31What was the what was the URL of that company? Bolt.com?.eu. Bolt.eu.

Jacob Appel

01:40>> It's a large

Prior Bolt Franchise Exit

Jacob Appel

01:44>> ride hailing and food delivery company in Europe.

Nathan Latka

01:47And so what do you mean you owned the you weren't you weren't necessarily a cofounder, but you bought the trademark rights in certain countries? Or what do mean by you were the franchise owner?

Jacob Appel

01:57>> Yeah. We basically had the right to operate that company on in a number of countries. So it was it was our own setup. It was our own company, and we just had to we were piggybacking their technology.

Nathan Latka

02:10Okay. And so when they exited, I mean, I think from January, in 01/11/2022, Bolt was valued at something like $8,400,000,000 So I guess, I ping the founders of Bolt, will they know you? Will they know? Oh yeah, I know Jacob.

Jacob Appel

02:27>> Yeah. They'll know who I am. Yes.

Nathan Latka

02:30Okay. So so how how should my audience think about your slice of the $8,400,000,000 valuation from last year?

Franchise Structure and Countries

Jacob Appel

02:40>> As fairly minimal, I would say. We I was running three fairly small countries, Cyprus, Malta, and Tunisia, and it was it was bought themselves that acquired our business back. So we had I me and my partners, we had the franchise right to operate in a number of countries. And I guess at some point when we started making too much money, they they wanted to buy the the operations, and there was like a predefined buyout clause in

03:12>> the contract we had with them.

Nathan Latka

03:13And what is that buyout clause? It says something like, hey. We have the right to buy you out at one x revenue or something like that?

Jacob Appel

03:21>> Yeah. I I can't disclose the the exact figures because I think we're still under the the confidentiality of the of of the exit. But, yeah, there was a predefined buyout clause in the in the contract we had with them.

Nathan Latka

03:37Were you able to grow your three locations to above $1,000,000 a year in revenue?

Jacob Appel

03:46>> Yes.

Nathan Latka

03:47Okay. And Significantly.

Jacob Appel

03:51>> Okay. More than 10,000,000?

03:57>> I'm not I'm not because we we're still, like, the the whole we are still waiting to get paid for some of the of of of that exit. So I don't know how close I can get to the figures. Above 1,000,000 is definitely not saying too much. I don't know how much closer I can get than that.

Nathan Latka

04:15Okay. What percent of the deal price was not cash upfront? It sounds like you're on an earn out right now or something like that. Are you still waiting on 20% of the deal price, 50%? By far, the

Jacob Appel

04:26>> majority was was was paid right away, and then there was, like, a a percentage allocated to make sure that the the the whole operation that they were taking over was running smoothly.

Nathan Latka

04:39Oh, what's going on there, YouTube? Good to see you guys. Now imagine this. You love watching these interviews with SaaS founders, but imagine if we took all of the valuation data out from over 2,807 interviews I've done manually. Saves you a lot of time. Well, we've done this. We've built it into the beautiful interface inside of Founderpath. Check this out. I'll show you how you can access this in a second, but you log in, you connect

05:03your Stripe account, you see your valuation real time. You can see what it changed over the past eighty eight days and even set goals for valuation this year. Now the secret evaluation is there's many different ways to value a SaaS business. So the reason you're gonna see three or four different valuations inside of your Founderpath dashboard, this is all free by the way, is because depending on who's doing the buying of your SaaS company, you're gonna

Sponsor: Founderpath Valuations

Nathan Latka

05:27get a different valuation. A VC is gonna pay a different valuation, Private equity firm is different. If you're gonna do a minority sale, that's different. And if you sell the whole business, that's a different valuation. You can see all those when I hover over here, right? So the teal is what a VC would pay. Yellow is what private equity And red is if you sold the whole thing outright. Now what's cool about this is this is

05:49not built off random data. Again, you guys hear these interviews on YouTube. All these datas are built from real time valuation data points founder share with us on the show. So traction 1,200,000 seed round 3.7 raise. They sold 22% of their business. Go in here and filter by the event. Maybe you only wanna see companies that have sold the whole business. Well, here are a bunch that have been acquired the valuation and the multiple. Maybe you're

06:14going out right now and you're raising your seed round. We'll go in here and look at all this recent seed deals that went down, what they raised, what valuation they raised at and what percent that they sold. There's never been a larger dataset of SaaS valuations than what you can get now inside of Founderpath. And we're thrilled to bring it to you. All right. We're gonna go back to the YouTube video here in a second, but

06:36if you wanna check this tool out, if you wanna jump in and sign up, you can check it out for free to get your valuation at this link. This link, founderpath.com/products/valuations. Or if you go to founderpath.com and hover over products, click on get your valuation here, and go ahead and sign up to give it a whirl. Again, all that valuation data live right inside the platform. I hope to see you there. Alright. Let's jump back into

Binderr Origins and First Line of Code

Nathan Latka

07:03the interview. Alright. Let's jump into binderr. So when did you write the first line of code for binderr?

Jacob Appel

07:09>> Three and a half years ago.

Nathan Latka

07:11So were you running this while you were also doing the Bolt franchises?

Jacob Appel

07:16>> Yes.

07:17I see.

07:17>> Very

07:18>> interesting. At some point I knew at some point that our Bolt venture would come to an end and I wanted although that Bolt was a was a fantastic success for us, it was never really ours. It was we were just a partner, and I really wanted us to to sort of control our own destiny and and and build our own thing. So as soon as I realized that at at some point, the the journey would come

07:48>> to an end, we we we started our own thing.

Nathan Latka

07:51Okay. So you started writing code for this in somewhere around 2020. Help me understand today, how is a lawyer or an accountant using your platform to grow their business?

Product Pivot From Accounting App to CSP Platform

Jacob Appel

08:04>> So we we've only just launched the platform to the market. We spent two years actually building an accounting app to then realize that maybe there was a better opportunity in specifically focusing on this niche when it comes to corporate service providers. So

Nathan Latka

08:23are you pre revenue today or do you have paying customers?

Jacob Appel

08:27>> We have paying customers today, but we are early in our revenue journey.

Nathan Latka

08:32So when did you get your first paying customer?

Jacob Appel

08:36>> In March.

Nathan Latka

08:38March this year. Okay. That's great. How did you decide? A lot of founders when they launch and get the first customer, they're not quite sure what pricing model to use. What did you price your software at?

First Paying Customer and Pricing Model

Jacob Appel

08:49>> We went with a model where we felt there was a good opportunity learning from big players like Stripe and other companies that really have become so successful, because they became part of the journey of the customer that they're serving, so they would grow their business on a basis of a percentage of what was coming through. We felt fairly early on, these lawyers, these accountants who are incorporating companies, and who are doing corporate filings, that we want

09:21>> to be really aligned with their revenue stream. So we charge mostly at transactional costs. So every time you go and incorporate a company through binderr or you appoint a new director, then we charge a fee for that transaction, while we also charge a small subscription per client that they manage.

Nathan Latka

09:44What transaction is associated with the company when they, you know, for example, add a new director? Are you trying to say you you charge on a utility based model where every time they take an action, you charge, like, per that action, or is there actual, like, you're charging a percent of GMV?

Jacob Appel

09:58>> No. So imagine if you want to appoint a new director in Nathan's company, you would go to your service provider and you would say, I would like to appoint this director. They would charge you $300 to appoint a new director.

10:15>> Service provider would appoint that new director because it's automated through binder, and we charge them a percentage of that. So we would charge them like $30 to appoint a new director through binder because the whole flow is automated.

Current ARPU and Customer Count

Nathan Latka

10:28I guess, so on average, what's the customer paying you per month sorta today?

Jacob Appel

10:35>> Today, they're paying us about €500 a month.

Nathan Latka

10:38Okay. So this is for like a lawyer or an accountant that that that maybe has, you know, five to 10 customers, something like that.

Jacob Appel

10:47>> Our customers on average have two to 300 clients that they're serving.

Nathan Latka

10:52Okay.

Jacob Appel

10:53>> And the reason why we are only at €500 on average per customer is that a lot of the features and a lot of our penetration into the service provider is not deep enough, So we would expect our average customer to pay us 2 to €3,000 a month when we get deep enough with our penetration. But today, as we're still fairly early, it's about €500.

Nathan Latka

11:18And how many customers are paying today?

Jacob Appel

11:22>> Six.

Nathan Latka

11:23And how are you finding them? Are you using a specific growth method?

Jacob Appel

11:28>> No. So the the sales part of it is fairly straightforward because in a country like Malta where we operate today, there's a list of all corporate service provider in Malta. Have it's a regulated entity, so you just go online, you find all the the corporate service providers in Malta, and you pretty much have their contact details.

Nathan Latka

11:50So you're only selling to accounts and lawyers in Malta?

Founding Team and Equity Split

Jacob Appel

11:54>> Yeah.

Nathan Latka

11:55And is it is it mainly accountants and lawyers or are there other professions you're working with?

Jacob Appel

12:01>> No, our ideal customer is corporate service providers, but they often, like if you look at it globally, they are often comprised of accountants, lawyers, notaries. It really depends on what country you're looking at.

Nathan Latka

12:14I see. Talk to me about your founding team. Did you found this one by yourself or you have co founders?

Jacob Appel

12:21>> I I started out by myself fairly early on, and then I got I got two co founders later in the journey when we pivoted from an accounting app to being focused on corporate service providers.

Nathan Latka

12:36So did you did you give them 50% each, so 25 and then you keep 50% or how'd you guys have the equity conversation?

Jacob Appel

12:44>> No. Since I had I financed most of the business myself from the beginning, and as I was also the only founder who worked on it from the beginning, it was it wasn't exactly like, let's split it down the middle and we all share equally. Own a larger percentage than my

Nathan Latka

13:05So you own more than maybe 70% of the company?

Jacob Appel

13:10>> No, less.

Nathan Latka

13:11Okay. So between 50 Okay. Oh, but you own about 50% of the company total?

Jacob Appel

13:18>> Yes.

Nathan Latka

13:19Oh, I see.

Jacob Appel

13:20>> Yes.

Nathan Latka

13:21So if you own 50, then they own 25% each?

Jacob Appel

13:28>> No. Our team owns about 10%.

13:31Okay.

13:31>> My co founders own about 15%, and then I have my old partners from the other business that we exited, who also put some of their money into to binder. So they also own a piece.

Nathan Latka

13:44Okay. So that's 50%, sixty, seventy five. So they own your old partners own maybe 25%, something like that. They were your angel investors, basically.

Jacob Appel

13:53>> Yeah.

Nathan Latka

13:54I see. I see. How much of your own money have you put in the company so far?

Burn Rate and Personal Investment

Jacob Appel

13:59>> About 2,000,000.

Nathan Latka

14:00Does that make you nervous? It's a lot of money.

Jacob Appel

14:05>> No. I I feel fairly confident in in what we're doing, and I don't I I always knew that I wanted to to pour whatever money we made from the first venture into to to the next one. So no. Mhmm.

Nathan Latka

14:23Why is it so expensive to build this? I mean, $2,000,000 is have you already spent all the $2,000,000?

Jacob Appel

14:31>> Keep in mind, we we spent about two years to begin with developing an accounting app to then pivot for a year and a half to develop this app for corporate service providers, and we're spending about a €100,000 a month. It's a team of 18, mainly developers. So yeah, that runs up over time. Mhmm.

Nathan Latka

14:58So you've already spent $2,000,000 because of that burn rate you just articulated?

Jacob Appel

15:03>> Yes. Slightly more. 2 and a half, 2.7.

Nathan Latka

15:08I guess so. I mean, anyone listening right now might go, oh my gosh. Like I could never afford to spend $2,700,000 like on my startup because maybe they don't have an exit like you. So I guess how do you keep yourself sort of honest? You have enough play money where you can sort of throw money at problems, but how do you make a decision on, man, this isn't growing as fast as I thought it would. We're

15:25three years in, I gotta shut this down and move on. You know, do you gauge success?

Conviction in the Market and Vision

Jacob Appel

15:31>> You have to

15:34>> you have to feel very confident in in the in the direction that that you're taking the business, and I think that the

15:45>> we didn't it's not like we are inventing

15:52>> product where we don't really know if there's a market for it, it's kind of like if you can build a better accounting app than Xero or QuickBooks, you know there's a market for it. It's not really a question of whether there's a market and a demand for it, it's just a question can you actually build it, and then find a way to distribute this product, and we've spoken to these corporate service providers all around the world,

16:19>> and they are all desperate for the kind of tool that we have built, and I know as soon as this product is ready, which it is fairly soon, so for us it's a very exciting time, because we feel like we're right on the cusp of being able to deliver this product that we've worked on for so long.

16:39>> That makes it a bit easier knowing that you're getting such good feedback from the market, and you,

16:46>> yeah, you feel like you're close and you also feel like there's a lot of support from your from my partners, co founders, team and and so forth, of course, makes it a lot easier.

Famous Five: Books, Tools and Habits

Nathan Latka

16:56Well, Jacob, rooting for you on that note though, let's wrap up here with the famous five. Number one, your favorite book?

Jacob Appel

17:06>> I recently read a book by the I don't know if he wrote it himself, but he is the founder of Hyundai, the the car company. His name is Chong Kyung Jung or something similar, and he's just an absolute he's definitely an inspiration.

Nathan Latka

17:29Great. Number two, is there a CEO you're following or studying?

Jacob Appel

17:36>> No. Number three, what's Not anything. I I try and get as much inspiration as as I can from from from any any founder CEO.

Nathan Latka

17:44Num number three is what's your favorite online tool for building binderr?

Jacob Appel

17:50>> ClickUp.

Nathan Latka

17:51Number four, how many hours

17:52>> of send

17:52do you get every night?

Jacob Appel

17:55>> Eight hours.

Nathan Latka

17:56And what's the situation? Married, single, kids?

Jacob Appel

18:00>> I have fiance, two kids.

Nathan Latka

18:02That's great. And how

Jacob Appel

18:03>> old are and five months.

Nathan Latka

18:04How old are you, Jacob?

Jacob Appel

18:07>> I am 36.

Nathan Latka

18:09Last question. What's something you wish you knew when you were 20?

Advice to Younger Self

Jacob Appel

18:19>> I wish I'd put a bit more urgency to this whole journey we are on. There's so much

18:28>> good stuff to come from being consistent and having a like a long term term vision. So I wish I had started this journey a bit earlier because it really it compounds these these things that you're you're doing. So I wish I had started a bit earlier and known that some urgency would have been good as well. Probably the thing I should know, I wish I knew more better today as well.

Nathan Latka

18:52Guys, binderr.com with two r's on the end does $500 per customer per month today. They have six customers. So 3,000 in monthly recurring revenue. Jacob has invested so far over $2,000,000 of his own money in the business, mainly to pay for the team. There's 18 full time. He's burning called a $100,000 per month, but has a lot of conviction on the vision of what he's trying to build. He got that money by the way from his

19:14first exit. Now plowing it into binderr, which is helping folks that serve it, accountants, lawyers, CSPs and Malta help them service their customers faster in a more automated fashion. They're launching now looking to scale up their customer base, scale up the team and obviously scale revenue. We'll see what happens next. Jacob, thanks for taking us to the top.

Jacob Appel

19:34>> Awesome. Thanks Nathan. Take care.

Nathan Latka

19:37One more thing before you go. We have a brand new show every Thursday at 1PM Central. It's called Shark Tank for SaaS. We call it deal or bust. One founder comes on, three hungry buyers, they try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards, their expenses, their revenue, ARPU, CAC, LTV, you name it, they share it. And the buyers try and make a deal live. It is fun to watch every Thursday 1PM

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