How Material Retail Hit $1.2M Revenue and 200 Software Customers While Reaching Profitability (Interview with CEO Elliot Djmal)

Introduction and Business Overview

Nathan Latka

00:00ShopTeeks was launched back in way back in 2010. They helped merchandise or sell online. One of those merchandisers was Elliot's company called door la door at nyc.com. They that company does 5 to 10,000,000 top line revenue, but eventually, said, you know, I like the software, and I like Shoptix more. Let me start consulting over there before you know it. He's now running it as co CEO of the platform. They make money in three ways. They'd have

00:20a take rate on revenue that goes through Shoptix. They sell software. We call materialretail that folks pay a $125 for. Again, these brand boutiques use it to grow their business. And then lastly, they actually ship POS systems, and they actually take a smaller percent flowing through those systems. 72,000,000 in GMV through those systems last year, hoping to grow their revenue, their total revenue, not not like some big GMV number, but their actual revenue to about 1,500,000

00:43this with a small efficient team, which we love of four full timers. Hey, folks. My guest today is Elliot Djmal. He's an experienced entrepreneur, successfully led an independent retail business with eight locations for eight years. He's now the a co CEO of a dynamic startup called materialretail.com. They build software and services for independent retailers. Elliot, you ready to take us to the top?

Elliot's Background and Door La Door Retail Business

Elliot Djmal

01:04>> Definitely. Definitely.

Nathan Latka

01:05Alright. So what were you using material retail when you were running those eight retail locations, like, as a customer?

Elliot Djmal

01:12>> Yeah. Definitely. So materialretail has a lot of parts to it. The main one, which most people know is called shoptiques.com. It's a marketplace for independent retailers. Shop what? Shoptiques.com.

Nathan Latka

01:25Teeks?

Elliot Djmal

01:27>> Like, tiques, like boutiques.

Nathan Latka

01:29Oh, like boutique.

Elliot Djmal

01:30>> Shopeeks. So we as an independent retailer, we were putting our products on that marketplace, and it was super successful. We went two routes for e commerce. One, we launched our own website and the other one we started selling on Shopeeks in the marketplace. And we had much more success on the marketplace. We didn't have to worry about the tech, the logistics, the marketing, and we just kind of posted the good product and got orders and fulfilled.

01:57>> So it worked really well.

Nathan Latka

01:59What year did you launch those independent locations?

Elliot Djmal

02:02>> So we launched DoorLatdoor as the name of the retail company in 2010.

Nathan Latka

02:08Okay. 2010. Sorry. Doortodoor.com?

Elliot Djmal

02:11>> Doorlatdoor. So the website's doorlatdoornyc.com.

Nathan Latka

02:15Do so Dor, l a, Dor?

Elliot Djmal

02:18>> No. Dorldornyc.com.

Nathan Latka

02:22Dor. Dor Ladore. Okay. Nyc.com. Okay. Interesting. And what was your main product? What were you selling?

Elliot Djmal

02:28>> So it's like fast fashion for a 25 to 35 year old girl. Definitely like going out clothing and things you'd wear to a club. Called disposable fashion, like a step up from Forever twenty one.

How Door La Door Used Shoptiques Marketplace

Nathan Latka

02:41Okay. No. The obvious question, people are gonna look at you here and thinking, the hell is this guy selling clothes to, like, you know, teenage girls?

Elliot Djmal

02:48>> Well, so, you know, it's in my blood, to be honest. My grandfather was in fashion retail. My dad was in fashion retail, and we all just kept doing it.

02:58>> Yeah, my dad worked for my grandpa, I worked for my dad, and yeah, so that's what we learned. We look at you know, there's definitely a lot of ways to look at fashion retail, some of it's by like what's fashionable, the other is looking at numbers and see what's selling, and at end of the day, a style is just a number in a spreadsheet and see what's selling, and you go after that. Good vendors, good things

03:16>> like that.

Nathan Latka

03:17That's wild. Okay. So you you get doorladoor going door doorladoornyc.com in 2010. Is that so is it still operating, Tate? Do you sell it or what?

Elliot Djmal

03:25>> Yeah. No. It's still operating. There's eight locations. My family still runs it. And

Nathan Latka

03:31Interesting. So okay. So there are eight locations. So do you rely more on virtual marketplace revenue through Shoptiques or actually physical people walking in your eight locations?

Elliot Djmal

03:41>> Definitely, the eight locations are the majority of the revenue, but we were able to use the eight locations and leverage all the inventory and all the stuff we have there to have a profitable ecommerce. We don't have to add really any expense or any inventory, any overhead, like, any overhead and just, you know, have incremental sales.

Nathan Latka

04:02Interesting. So how many how many, like, unique people bought at least one thing from door la door last year?

Elliot Djmal

04:10>> In store, I'd say in the five tens of thousands online in the, you know, one to 5,000 people.

Nathan Latka

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06:42interview. Interesting. And can you give us a sense of revenue size? Are we talking like 1 to 5,000,000, five to 10? Where were you guys generally?

Elliot Djmal

06:49>> It's like five to 10.

Nathan Latka

06:50Five to 10. Wow. Okay. So I guess why leave that and go deep into door to door oh, sorry, and go deep into materialretail?

Elliot Djmal

06:58>> Was a slow transition, so I was very involved in Shoptique's materialretail as a customer, really spearheaded that in door to door, made a lot of friends at the company, and over time slowly got involved, started consulting there two days a week in 2018 actually, so did that for two years, two years I was there two days a week and really kind of fell in love with just helping with

Nathan Latka

07:27the for that or you're just doing it because you it helped door the door grow?

Elliot Djmal

07:31>> Yeah. No. They paid us for that. Paid me for that. I definitely I wish I could work for free. We can't do it one day. And

07:40>> yeah. So it was like a slow transition. It made it really easy because I knew what I was getting into. You know, after two years doing it two days a week, I really knew the business. I knew what I can add to their business, and then also what I could bring to the boutiques to help the boutiques be more successful using their products.

Nathan Latka

07:59And what year was that? So the consulting started what year?

Elliot Djmal

08:02>> 2018.

Nathan Latka

08:032018. Okay then. So so I guess fast forward, when did you realize, oh, maybe the founders wanna leave or they're getting forced out and you're gonna jump in as co CEO?

Elliot Djmal

08:11>> So it was like 2020, early twenty twenty, right when COVID was happening, kinda happened really, really quickly. Me and my co CEO, Mark, were put in place by the old CEO and Founder and the Board, and we hit the ground running. COVID was a very busy time. We're definitely e commerce focused business. Interesting.

Nathan Latka

08:32So you mentioned Board. Had they raised a bunch of money?

Elliot Djmal

08:34>> Yeah. So Shoptix's story history. It's launched in 2012,

Nathan Latka

08:40raised Wait. Sorry. Just to be clear. Are we talking about Shoptix or materialretail?

Shoptiques Rebrands to Material Retail

Elliot Djmal

08:43>> So Shoptix, we rebranded to materialretail in 2022.

Nathan Latka

08:50Oh, same company. So,

Elliot Djmal

08:51>> yeah, Shoptix is the marketplace that materialretail owns. Shoptix.com was the only business that we had for about eight, nine years, and then we launched a software suite, which is materialretail in 2019. And slowly over time, a lot of the focus moved towards the software suite as opposed to the marketplace. So now shopteaks.com, which is the marketplace, is a subsidiary of materialretail.

Nathan Latka

09:19I see. When you look at total revenue like last year, what was the split between Shoptix versus the software materialretail?

Revenue Split: Software vs. Marketplace

Elliot Djmal

09:25>> So software is like 70% of the revenue. Oh, wow. Yeah. But a lot of the economic activity happens in the marketplace. The marketplace is not really profitable for us. We use it as G channel. Called a funnel. Yeah. Marketing funnel. And we also use it to add value to the boutiques. Like the boutiques use our software. It's one of our biggest differentiators. Like why would you use material versus Shopify? It's because you come in and you

09:49>> start getting online sales right away without having to pay, you know, Google or Facebook for ads.

Nathan Latka

09:53That makes a ton of sense. How many unique website hits a month does Shopteaks get?

Shoptiques Traffic and SEO Strategy

Elliot Djmal

09:57>> So it gets, like, 200,000 unique hits a month.

Nathan Latka

10:01That's not easy. How did you learn how to do SEO and content marketing and get traffic?

Elliot Djmal

10:05>> So a lot of it was, I'd say luck that I was put into the position in 2020 because a of it was done for us. But a lot of it, I think, I would attribute to the network effect. So we have like 500 boutiques selling on the marketplace. So with that comes a ton of recognition from the owners, the employees, their customers, things like that. And then there's a ton of product listings. So we have 60,000

10:27>> active styles and we have everything from a no name brand that you've never heard of before to big brands like Birkenstock or cool brands like Queen of Sparkles and Buddy Love and things like that. Mhmm. And so we need to rely on the boutiques to do all the merchandising and the product descriptions and things like that.

Nathan Latka

10:43Help me understand, I mean, did the founder of the company not wanna be involved anymore or what happened there?

Elliot Djmal

10:50>> Yeah. So she has a family now and she was going on her third kid, I think, at that time. I think she gave it ten years and just I think it was mutual.

Nathan Latka

11:02Interesting. Yeah. This is Olga. She, I assume, owned a 100% of the company until she sold some to VCs?

Elliot Djmal

11:08>> Well, it was VC backed for a while. So I don't know the exact splits or anything, but she definitely had investors, seed rounds, series a, things like that.

Nathan Latka

11:16How much total have the company raised?

Elliot Djmal

11:18>> It was, like, 19,000,000 in total.

Nathan Latka

11:20Oh, wow. Have you raised any more since you've come in as co CEO or no?

Elliot Djmal

11:24>> We have not.

Shift to Profitability

Elliot Djmal

11:26Okay.

11:26>> We kinda shifted to profitability, and we got there, which is great.

Nathan Latka

11:30That's great. When did you hit profitability? Do you remember?

Elliot Djmal

11:33>> So last year.

Nathan Latka

11:34Congrats. It's you don't seem very excited.

Elliot Djmal

11:37>> It's exciting, but it definitely changes the game a little bit. Right? We went from this, call it, like, high growth, like, aspirational startup going for let's get to Wall Street as quickly as possible. It's like, alright. Let's have a sustainable business where we know we can continue to grow sustainably, a little more slowly but still sustainably for years to come as opposed to, you know, let's just go for a grand slam and hit it or miss,

Nathan Latka

11:57>> basically.

11:57That's awesome. What so give me a sense of how merchandisers are paying the software arm of SHOT, so materialretail today. What what are they paying on average per month and what do they get?

Elliot Djmal

12:07>> So for, like, the, you know, base plan, call it, which gets you access to the full platform, to the marketplace, inventory management, employee management, some marketing tools, a website, and all that stuff, it's $1.25 a month. Then

Nathan Latka

12:21$100,125 dollars?

Elliot Djmal

12:22>> $125 a month. And then we also have with that, the centerpiece of that is a POS system where they're running transactions in store. The boutique's

Nathan Latka

12:33actually a physical?

Software Pricing and POS System

Elliot Djmal

12:36>> Yeah, so it's iPad based, so everything's done on an iPad. We'll ship them a credit card terminal, get a receipt printer, barcode scanner, and you go to a retail store, you pick up a dress, the cashier scans it into the system, tells you it's $80. You insert your credit card or receipt gets printed. That's all us.

Nathan Latka

12:52How much does that cost to you? Just hard goods cost upfront to ship that stuff?

Elliot Djmal

12:56>> Thousand bucks.

Nathan Latka

12:58Interesting. That's the shipping cost plus the actual barcode scanner, card reader, the whole thing.

Elliot Djmal

13:02>> Yeah. And most of the time, the boutique pays for it. A lot of times, also, if the boutique is coming off of another POS at Shopify or Square, they'll have some of the hardware already because it's iPad based. A lot of us use the same stuff. As long as connected long as it can with Bluetooth, it'll probably work. So we also get a cut of the credit card revenue.

Nathan Latka

13:22What percent?

Elliot Djmal

13:23>> Which is nice. So it depends on the boutique, but it's a minimal amount, let's say a quarter of a percent to a half a percent. But the beauty is we also have a deal with our credit card partner that they beat the merchant's current rates, so it's like a win win. They switched our POS, they saved some money on their credit card rates whether they're coming from Square or Global Payments or whatever, So we'll save them

13:45>> money on the credit card rates and we'll also be able to get a cut, so win win there.

Nathan Latka

13:48Interesting. That makes a ton of sense. And how many boutiques are paying for materialretail today?

Customer Counts and Marketplace Commission Structure

Elliot Djmal

13:53>> So we have 200 boutiques who are using the like, full software suite and then, like, another, call it, 300 on top of that who are selling on the marketplace. We do also have a services arm of the

Nathan Latka

14:04300 are not paying the $1.25 a month?

Elliot Djmal

14:06>> No. No.

Nathan Latka

14:07Interesting.

Elliot Djmal

14:08>> They're just Why don't you

Nathan Latka

14:09require that? Why don't you require they pay the software for you in order to get to the marketplace?

Elliot Djmal

14:13>> You know, we try that a lot of different times. It just doesn't work. Yeah. Yeah. We definitely give better we we give better economics if you're a POS user versus not POS user on the marketplace. Lower commissions. People see your products more and things like that.

Nathan Latka

14:29So the 300 that sell only on the marketplace, what like, what do you take from them? Like 10% of sales or how do make money there?

Elliot Djmal

14:35>> So we charge usually a 30% commission on marketplace sales. We do pay for shipping and things like that. So we end up making, let's call it 10% to the bottom line. For boutique on the mark on POS, we'll charge them 25% and we, you know, probably break even on most orders.

Nathan Latka

14:51Yep. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And then can you give me a sense of, obviously, any marketplace, the big numbers, gross merchandise value, right, volume, right, over a period of time, what was your average GMV last year?

Elliot Djmal

15:03>> So it was called 2,500,000.

Nathan Latka

15:05Okay. And would you consider that successful year, not successful year?

Elliot Djmal

15:09>> So I consider it a success because again, we shifted to profitability. It's really easy to burn money on the marketplace, especially when working on a commission and you don't have high margins. We could very easily raise that GMV, the trick is how do we raise it without burning cash. So it's a little bit hard for us because we don't have the same economics as a lot of other e commerce players, so we can't go out and

15:32>> just do the standard stuff because let's say a Revolve or another big fashion brand, they're gonna work on let's say fifty-sixty percent margins, where we're working on 25% at the most for any of our expenses. I'm sure they'll have the same expenses when it comes to shipping and things like that, but they're working on, called, double the margins. They could have double the ad spend. And So just put that in sense,

Nathan Latka

15:55Shoptix is your marketplace. You make money there off 30% cut. You did 2,500,000 of GMV last year there, so what does that work out to? Like $750,000 of top line revenue there, and you'll take 10% of that to the bottom line.

Elliot Djmal

16:08>> Yeah.

Nathan Latka

16:09Or 30%. 30% of the $7.50 k to the bottom line.

Elliot Djmal

16:12>> Yeah. We pay for all the shipping costs, credit card fees, things like that. Is it then discounts? We give a 10% discount on the website. We pay for that, so 30% turns into 20%. Yeah. It's definitely not as pretty as it sounds.

Nathan Latka

16:26Yeah. I know you're all in one. It makes a lot of sense. I didn't say it sounded pretty, by the way. I'm just trying to understand the margins. I hate this business because I had to I don't like dealing with multiple SKUs. I don't like dealing with hardware. I don't you know, boutique's quite a business all the time, but you're uniquely positioned to do it because you you eat your own dog food. You came from that

In-Store GMV and Payment Processing Revenue

Nathan Latka

16:44world. So it makes tons of sense. Did does that GMV model also include in store sales or just the virtual Shoptiques?

Elliot Djmal

16:52>> Just the the virtual Shoptiques. In store sales is much higher, so including, like, the whole ecosystem, it's, like, 75,000,000.

Nathan Latka

16:58Oh, wow. Okay. So you do the majority. I mean, you do $7,072,000,000 in in store volume each year.

Elliot Djmal

17:04>> Yeah. But we don't get anywhere near the 30% cut of that, obviously. And that's just the GMV that we like, the process through our system.

Nathan Latka

17:15Yep. Yep. Yep. That's the one where, like, we could multiply 72,000,000 times, would you say, point 5% or something like that? Yeah. Point two to point five. I mean, yeah. So on the low end, point two five of that would be what is that? 18,000,000, something like that in in your cut annual?

Elliot Djmal

17:28>> Point 25%, not 25%.

Nathan Latka

17:31Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Got it. Got it. Sorry. A $180. Yeah. Way different. 100.25 on 72,000,000 would be a $180 of revenue there. Definitely. Interesting. When you think about expanding the business this year, can you increase your percentages, or is it all about just getting more GMV?

Elliot Djmal

17:47>> It's all about getting more GMV and merchants, and we have a services part of the business that came in a little bit after, and basically we take what we're good at and we layer it on top of our existing products, so we're really good at web design and call it e commerce marketing where our boutiques are not. We offer very basic email marketing and web design for those boutiques, and we charge them for it. So we've

18:17>> been doing that for years, but what we're doing now is we're trying to partner with a bunch of our boutiques and take their websites to the next level. So let's say in my example, dueldornyc.com, Shoptix takes it over, runs the website for them, all design, all the marketing, all that stuff. They're still responsible for the merchandising, the product sourcing, that stuff, and can we grow their e commerce? Then in that case, we'd take a bigger cut.

18:43>> And there's no expenses behind that, which is because we're gonna pay for shipping or anything like that. It's just the revenue share of the

Nathan Latka

18:49So so, I guess, what percent of your last year's revenue would you attribute to your services arm?

Elliot Djmal

18:57>> Call it 15%, 20%.

Nathan Latka

19:00Okay. So that's not small, that's getting up there. Is that generally decreasing or increasing year over year?

Team Structure: US and Philippines

Elliot Djmal

19:06>> It's increasing year over year, but it's kind of bittersweet because we really want to grow the software because we install and as long as the boutique doesn't churn, we offer them good support and it's really profitable, whereas services, you got to do work every month. And we have it down to a science, but it's not sexy.

Nathan Latka

19:25That makes sense. How many folks are full time at the company today?

Elliot Djmal

19:28>> So we have an interesting team. We have four full time in The US and then 14 full time in The Philippines and a few part timers in The US also.

Nathan Latka

19:38Interesting. What functions do you have in The Philippines?

Elliot Djmal

19:41>> So customer support, graphic design, and, you know, other, call it, random tests.

Nathan Latka

19:47Interesting. Interesting. Alright. What what what do you wish I asked you about that I haven't asked you about? Something you wish you could talk about but no one ever asks about?

Material Retail vs. Shopify Positioning

Elliot Djmal

19:55>> Yeah. I think why why materialretail versus Shopify?

Nathan Latka

19:59Okay. Why materialretail versus Shopify?

Elliot Djmal

20:02>> So you know what I'd say and what I really believe, I actually do this in my own life, is Shopify is just one size fits all, right? It's e commerce first, brick and mortar second. It's like jump in and figure it out for yourself, whereas materialretail is a very specific set of tools for a very specific customer. So brick and mortar first, e commerce second, everything's gonna be, I don't wanna say handed to you, but it's

20:26>> designed specifically for you. So you come in, you customize it to your liking, and it's just ready for you. Super easy to set up, someone will really help you along the way as opposed to Shopify, just We take

20:44>> pride in a boutique success because that's where we make more money. When a boutique grows, we make more money. When we can increase a boutique's sales online, that's where we make our money.

Revenue Goals for 2023 and 2024

Nathan Latka

20:54What's your goal this year, Elliot? What do you hope to grow revenue to?

Elliot Djmal

20:58>> So we wanna end the year with a million 5 in revenue and in real revenue, not GMV or anything, and we want to end 2024 with hopefully 2,000,000.

Nathan Latka

21:09Now is that aggressive growth? Based off my math, make about last year about 750,000 on Shoptix, $300,000 on your software business. That's 200 customers paying $1.25 a month. That's 25 k of monthly recurring revenue. That's 300 k there, so we're at a million. And then you make another 180 k on your in store volume, so point two five percent of 72,000,000 GMV. So you are didn't last year you do about 1.2 or 1,300,000 already?

Elliot Djmal

21:32>> Yeah.

Nathan Latka

21:34So why not be more aggressive on I mean, can you grow faster?

Elliot Djmal

21:37>> If we wanna take more risk and burn a little bit of money, probably.

Nathan Latka

21:40Okay. So you can't grow faster without spending more money. There's no way to use creativity to grow faster.

Elliot Djmal

21:44>> There's definitely ways to be creative and grow more, but we are a very small team. Right? Mhmm. So we really have to be very focused and methodical with what we work on.

21:55>> Definitely set 2023, at least the first six months, we set the table for the next call two years. We built a big replatform of our marketplace, we did a couple of big integrations for the POS, and now we gotta just take that to market, basically.

Famous Five Rapid Fire Questions

Nathan Latka

22:10Yep. We're rooting for you. We appreciate you teaching us about your model and who you're serving. Let's wrap up here with the famous five. Number one, favorite business book?

Elliot Djmal

22:18>> Drive by Daniel Pink.

Nathan Latka

22:20Number two, is there a CEO you're following or studying?

Elliot Djmal

22:24>> Yeah. Toby Latka from Shopify. Sure.

Nathan Latka

22:28Number three, what's your favorite online tool for building materialretail?

Elliot Djmal

22:36>> I don't know.

Nathan Latka

22:37Number four.

22:38How many hours of sleep do you get every night?

Elliot Djmal

22:41>> Seven, eight hours.

Nathan Latka

22:42Alright. And situation, married, single, kids?

Elliot Djmal

22:45>> Married, three kids under five.

Nathan Latka

22:47Oh my gosh. You're busy guy. How old are you?

Elliot Djmal

22:50>> I'm 31.

Nathan Latka

22:52Oh, you got plenty of energy. Alright. That's fair. I don't feel as bad anymore. What's something you wish you when you were 20, Elliot?

Elliot Djmal

23:00>> Just jump in right away. It's whatever you believe in. Just jump in and just pour yourself into it, and it'll work out. If it doesn't work out, just keep going at it because it'll work.

Nathan Latka

23:09Shop ShopTeeks was launched back in way back in 2010. They helped merchandise or sell online. One of those merchandisers was Elliot's company called door la door at n y c dot com. They that company does 5 to 10,000,000 top line revenue, but eventually, said, you know, I like the software, and I like Shoptix more. Let me start consulting over there before you know it. He's now running it as co CEO of the platform. They make money

23:29in three ways. They'd have a take rate on revenue that goes through Shoptix. They sell software called materialretail that folks pay a $125 for. Again, these these brand boutiques use it to grow their business. And then lastly, they actually ship POS systems, and they actually take a smaller percent flowing through those systems, 72,000,000 in GMV through those systems last year, hoping to grow their revenue, their total revenue, not not like some big GMV number, but their

23:51actual revenue to about 1,500,000 this year with a small efficient team, which we level four full timers. We'll see what happens. Elliot, thanks for taking us this off.

Elliot Djmal

23:59>> Thank you. It was a great meeting.

Nathan Latka

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24:26Central. Additionally, remember these recorded founder interviews go live. We release them here on YouTube every day at 2PM Central. To make sure you don't miss any of that, make sure you click the subscribe button below here on YouTube, the big red button, and then click the little bell notification to make sure you get notifications when we do go live. I wouldn't want you to miss breaking news in the SaaS world, whether it's an acquisition, a big

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25:09up for that at nathanlatka.com/slack. In the meantime, I'm hanging out with you here on YouTube. I'll be in the comments for the next thirty minutes. Feel free to let me know what you thought about this episode and if you enjoyed it, click the thumbs up. We get a lot of haters that are mad at how aggressive I am on these shows, but I do it so that we can all learn. We have to counter those people.

25:29We got to push them away. Click the thumbs up below to counter them and know that I appreciate your guys'support. All right. I'll be in the comments. See you.