Fundkite Revenue (2023)

[00:00] FunKite was launched back in 2015 on a dream and an idea. They've scaled nicely to in a capital efficient way. They put out or they generated, they get 5,000 applications per month. They send out offers about 1,300 of those. Some portion of those are accepted and approved. The business in 2023 did quote about $70,000,000 of revenue. Alex is constantly thinking about how do they keep their both default rate low, which is, 16%, if I'm remembering properly, [00:23] and an actual charge off loss rate, 6.8 of that. Those are good economics. They optimize for about a 16%, take rate NIM sort of all in, which is very healthy. 91 folks full time on the team. They're funding these deals with prom notes on their own balance sheet and then also sourcing some of them out to capital partners as well. Hey, folks. If we haven't met yet, my name is Nathan Latka. I launched and sold my [00:44] first software company back in 2015 and went on to write a book about it, which you guys made a Wall Street Journal bestseller purchasing over 30,000 copies. Thank you so much for that. After the book, I launched this show and one went on to create founderpath.com. I raised a large fund to do non dilutive deals with b to b software founders. So far, we've invested in over 400 software founders totaling a $150,000,000. Here in 2024, we're [01:14] doing three to four new deals per week. So if you're looking for capital and don't wanna give up equity, go sign up at founderpath.com for free to get your offer. Alright. Let's jump into the interview. Hey, folks. My guest is Alex Schwartz. He's the CEO of FunKite, one of the fastest growing fintech companies in New York that provides funding to small businesses across The US. The company was founded in 2015, and his company utilizes a boutique [01:36] funding style offering business owners a flexible variety of products and services that can be tailored to fit their individual needs. Before FundKite, he engineered and sold proprietary technology to the greater fintech industry. Alex, you ready to take us to the top? [01:48] >> Let's do it. [01:49] Alright. Give me your just to get us all in the right frame right off the bat, give us your sweet spot deal. Is it a $100,000 into a small business doing a million a year in revenue? [01:57] >> So our our average deal size is about a $110,000. Mhmm. And these these are companies that are doing between 1 and 5,000,000 a year in annual gross sales. [02:08] Okay. And any specific sector, e comm, restaurants? [02:13] >> Very broad. Everything from restaurants to e comm to medical. There's some industries that we don't cater to at the moment. [02:23] Like what? [02:24] >> Like transportation and trucking. They're really in trouble. Those guys are really having a big hard time right now getting by. We don't do bail bondsman. So truckers, transportation, and we've we've we've pulled back a little bit on the construction industry. [02:41] And why is that? I mean, there's a lot of fintech firms that are doing on balance sheet lending to truck drivers or truck companies that buy the truck, and then you can sort of discount cash flow the trucking revenues, and they lend against that. Why are you staying away from it? [02:52] >> So let let's understand our product first. I think that will that will break it down. So what we do is called revenue based finance. We're we're we're buying future receivables based on historical sales, and we're buying them at a discount. So as the merchant is generating sales, we collect our receivables and we collect those receivables, a portion of those receivables to recover or, I'm sorry, to to accumulate what we've purchased. Right? So let's say we bought [03:21] >> a $100,000 worth of receivables for a lump sum payment of $90,000 today. And we'll collect 10% or whatever that fixed ratio is of your receivables. So if you did 5,000 in sales this month, we'll collect $500. If you did 3,000, we'll collect 300. So it varies. So we take [03:40] And what's the what's the typical term, though? Is that you're gonna get back to 100? [03:44] >> There is no term. Until we get back to our receivables, there is no term. [03:48] But, Alex, for you, what's typical, though? Right? So if you're taking 10% of monthly receivables, do you typically get paid back on the receivables you purchased within five months, or do you model for twelve months [03:56] >> or fifteen? We we we we model anywhere from eight to sixteen months, but it's very unpredictable. Right? So there is no term. There is no fixed term with our product. We're taking a ride with the with the, with the merchant that, you know, look, we look at historical data and we hope that business is going to increase and sales are going to go up. But it's it's really hard to, to predict that. So, having said that, [04:24] >> why trucking is it? So we've seen a lot of transportation companies fail. They're having their the biggest problem they have is accounting for the cost of goods, which in their case might be fuel. Right? So fuel is jumping up and down. They're booking the the jobs at one rate. They're not getting paid fast enough. So they're having a hard time, and this has been going on for years. We see a lot of major transportation companies file [04:49] >> bankruptcy in the last two years. Mhmm. Construction, so we're seeing a delay in payments. They're having a hard time collecting money. A lot of projects went into stand standstill. So when interest rates went up, a lot of the commercial properties are in trouble. We see a lot of big developers in trouble right now. They can't refinance. So that's slowed down. The residential market still seems to be doing good, but not as good as it was, you [05:15] >> know, post immediately post COVID. Right? [05:17] And, Alex, in fact, during a key a key component you have to model is obviously the discount rate. The 100 k example you just gave us where you wired 90 k upfront represent a 10 discount to future receivables. Is that your target typically? [05:28] >> Typically, it can range from anywhere from 10 to about 28% discount. So depending on the risk factors that we're facing. [05:37] And the quickest way, at least on a annual on a year long facility, now years again go from eight to sixteen months depending on the percent of monthly receivables, but a 28% discount rate paid back over twelve months represents about a 5052% effective interest rate. How do you get consumers or how do get these businesses comfortable with that kind of interest rate? [05:55] >> Really consider an effective interest rate on this because this is not a loan, and it's it's impossible. [06:02] Well, no. But, Alex, sorry. Just to take a step back. It's not a loan. It's not you but they are it's a true sale. They're selling you future receivables, which is why you don't have to deal with recarculation list, gain usury, and lending laws. Right? That's the way you get around that as a factoring business. You can still go calculate [06:15] >> I mean, we don't get around it. This is what the product is. Right? [06:19] Yeah. But the reason factoring the reason factoring is a thing is because it's a true sale. You don't have to worry about usury laws in certain states and lending licenses and things of that nature. [06:28] >> But the difference between a factoring product and this product and if you give me thirty seconds. Factoring works like this. I've got a purchase order from Home Depot. I've got a real buyer that's ready to buy a million dollars worth of worth of widgets. I'm a manufacturer. I need $500,000 to produce those widgets. I go to a factor. I say, here's a purchase order from, Home Depot for a million. Give me a 500,000. When I deliver [06:54] >> those goods, Home Depot is writing the check to the factor, and I get the difference. And so in factoring, you're underwriting the buyer. Right? Who's buying the product? How credit worthy are they? So that's a little and there's usually they're very short term type of deals. Right? With us, we're buying receivables. We don't know what if they're gonna have. So we're looking at, let's say, a restaurant. We look at twelve months of of receivables. They're averaging [07:18] >> a $100,000 a month in sales, and that's how we're gonna correct calculator offer. But what happens if their sales go down? It's a hurricane. It's COVID. It's there there there is no guarantee that they're gonna have receivables. So because we reconcile their sales constantly, right? So we do reconciliation. So if we're supposed to take 10%, we're looking at their sales or we're adjusting payments. It most of the time, it never works out as planned. It's always [07:47] >> a slower pace. Okay. So there is no fixed term here and and it's very hard. Look, we have disclosures in states like California and states like New York, where at the time of, origination, we have to provide a APR, right? And if we do calculate this APR based on the standards that they have provided, but it's not always accurate. And it's it will change. It will change because what if it takes them two years or three [08:15] >> years? Right? So the better way to look at this is is the cost of capital. So, you know, I'm getting $90,000. I gotta pay back a $100,000. My cost of capital is $10,000. That's the true way to look at this. And, because there is no term, and and and and that's really, really important. Right? [08:36] So we No. I audience will understand this. They're they're sort of savvy, find they'll understand this completely. But I just wanna underscore paying back that 10 k cost of capital in three months if the company grows really fast and receivables grows really fast. [08:49] >> It's gonna be a lot [08:50] more expensive. Different than paying back 10 k over someone that delays their payments and it takes three years. [08:56] >> Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And Okay. We're not catering to your bankable client. Right? You we're not banking. [09:03] Yeah. Yeah. I get that. It's a restaurant. I guess my question to you though is the example we just gave is if you do a deal with a restaurant for a 110 k, your average deal size, and then they explode, right, they do really well, that's good for you. That's great. You're gonna get your money back quicker, but it drives the effective. Like, if they're backing into an effective rate, it drives it through the roof. Why [09:22] do you do you ever restructure those to keep your good customers coming back for more? [09:27] >> No, we don't restructure them. And I've never seen it explode in a way where they just pay back like that. However, you know, if a merchant comes back in thirty days and says, look, I I I just wanna repay the receivables now. We just give them a discount on the balance. [09:40] So So instead of, like, the 10 k, you might say you're [09:42] >> paying that early. You can pay a Yeah. We we discount it, and that that's great. Right? I see. But it never explodes in the way we we want it to explode. [09:51] Yeah. It's always the worst case. [09:53] >> It's it's the implosion, not the explosion. Right? [09:55] Yeah. Help me understand on a month. Let's just use last month, February. How many new deals did you do across how many companies? [10:04] >> Okay. So we processed last month probably approximately 5,000 applications for different businesses. Right? [10:11] Okay. [10:12] >> We don't disclose the numbers of deals we actually fund or the volume. Can give you just average numbers. Right? But so you have 5,000 businesses, about 5,000 applications we process. A variety of industries. Like, there's we we get sometimes agriculture, supermarkets, restaurants, manufacturers. [10:35] >> It's just to you name it, we see it. [10:38] Mhmm. Can you give me I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna push you on something you don't wanna disclose, but can you at least sort of put us in the right range? Right? So if you have 5,000 applicants, are you doing sort of on the range of a thousand new wires per month into these companies? Or or can you give us an No. No. [10:51] >> Nobody does that type of, conversion. No. [10:55] That that's So it's much lower. [10:56] >> Yeah. It's much lower. It could be anywhere from so I'll I'll I'll I'll give you this number. Out of 5,000 applicants, we made offers to merchants. About 27% of those applicants, we made funding offers [11:11] Okay. Okay. Got it. So so about about 1,300 you made offers to, and then some portion of the why would someone not accept your offer? [11:23] >> They might get a better deal from a competitor. Better charge. Who? There's OnDeck. There's Shopify. There's PayPal. There's there's a lot of big competitors in the space. Right? [11:35] Mhmm. You can be with LendingClub. [11:38] >> So LendingClub is really not a funder. It's a the a lot of them are, like, kind of lead gen. So you're they're they're they're gathering. They're telling you they're doing it, and then they send it out. LendingClub is not really a business funding. They do it more personal stuff, consumer based. [11:53] Right? I see. And that's because You're not lead gen. Right? You have your own source of capital. You raise [11:58] >> We're absolutely a a full, fintech in this space. Our own underwriting, legal, collections, sales, we do marketing. [12:05] So you have you've raised balance sheet capital through these deals and hold them? [12:08] >> Yes. We have. Yes. [12:09] Okay. So what's your fund size? How much do you have available to lend out? [12:13] >> At any given time, our capacity is about 30,000,000 a month. [12:17] Okay. This is so this is an interesting question. Like, who's who's backing these fintech providers today? I mean, you're seeing you're reading the news about folks backing up from the BaaS providers. Like, you're seeing treasury prime lose their banking partnerships and the government going on BaaS. I mean, are you seeing a lot of sources of capital for you to raise and then lend out or not lend out, but wire? [12:35] >> More and fund. The word the word fund. [12:38] Fund. [12:39] >> Yeah. More and more every single day. So we've got there's a bigger influx of capital from hedge funds. Mhmm. High net worth individuals. There's a lot of syndication that goes on in this in this space. So the cap and and we've had some a lot of conversations with banks that wanna jump into this space. There's gonna be some regulation coming out next year where banks are gonna be forced to go back and start to lend out [13:04] >> to the small business. But banks are not equipped to underwrite a small bit. They can't underwrite a pizzeria. They don't understand how to look at bank statements like we do. So we're we're in our final stages of automation that so let's go back a step. How does this really work? Right? So no two businesses are alike. You take a Burger King in in New York City and you take a Burger King in Toledo. It looks like [13:29] >> it's a Burger King, two different operators, different costs, labor, rent, everything. Right? So and you've got two different people that run businesses and cash flow two different ways. So you really have to go through those bank statements to really understand true sales revenue and how they operate their business, right? You have to look at line by line to see what's going on, right? So what we've done is we've created automation that's able to really understand or [13:56] >> read those base statements and with scoring models shoot out offers. So primary for us is looking at the cash flow history of the business. Second is is is credit and background in industry. And we've been able to do that. And banks, they they can't do that. I mean, we we talk to banks all the time. They don't understand that they're credit driven products. They pull the credit at $7.50. Great. We can fund this guy. We can [14:20] >> provide credit. We don't look at credit. Credit is not the most important factor to us. It's how they got there. So you can have somebody with five fifty credit. They're just utilizing a lot of their credit and their credit score is down. You can have somebody with seven eighty FICO score and they have no credit. They've got one credit card and so credit isn't always a true reliable factor for us when it when it comes to [14:46] >> providing funding. [14:47] Mhmm. When your your source of capital on the 30,000,000 fund that you've raised [14:52] >> No. No. We raised more than that. I'm just saying I have capacity to fund 30,000,000 a month. [14:57] So what what how much capital have you raised total in in in debt funds that you can then, again, go go, you know [15:03] >> Both in in debt. And so both in debt and participation, almost 200,000,000. [15:12] Okay. And how much do you have to participate on on the so the advance rate is what? 90 percent, 95%, 80%? [15:18] >> The average? What do you mean advance rate? [15:21] Yes. You mentioned you write people fintechs raise equity to cover their haircut capital in their warehouse facilities typically. And those warehouse [15:28] >> facilities We don't have any warehouse facilities or or senior lines. We we don't take we don't take on capital like that. Right? We have investment partners that participate in these transactions or these [15:42] >> contracts, and and that's how we structure it. So we have balance [15:44] You're creating an s you're creating an individual SPV for every deal? [15:47] >> We have SPVs, but it it's structured as participations. Yes. Some of them. Some of it is participation, and some of it is balance sheet that we raised on on a debt basis, but not senior lines or mezzanine. [16:03] Okay. Let me just use a real example from our research. Right? You raised 16,800,000 according to Crunchbase on October 2023. It's debt fund quote, debt financing fund kite $16,800,000. What is that? [16:13] >> That's structured notes. [16:15] Oh, I see. So you're okay. Got it. So you're raising these sort of structured notes at your OpCo level, and then and then that's the money you're using to do these deals? [16:24] >> For sure. [16:25] I see. See. Why'd you choose to go [16:27] >> that did another filing recently. That number went up to, like, 22.8 or something. [16:32] Okay. So where do we get the 200,000,000 from? Like, I can't find that 200,000,000 number in my research anywhere. I see it's something like [16:38] >> We have a lot of participants that take down, participation in deals. [16:42] Oh, I see. Okay. So that's the total that's like what you've also sourced out to your partners. That's not necessarily the paper you're holding. Okay. Yeah. You're holding something like 20,000,000. [16:51] >> No. We're holding way more than 20,000,000. [16:54] Okay. [16:55] >> Because, you know, we'll we we we we fund, we collect, we put more money out. Right? So it's it's kind of a compounding out. [17:02] Okay. Okay. And then the prom notes that you just mentioned, the prom notes you raised at your operating co, you raised those at a fixed or floating rate? [17:10] >> We raised them with a stated interest and a contingent interest. So we give the upside on how well the portfolio does. [17:18] Oh, interesting. So it's like a hurdle rate almost and then a eighty twenty split above the hurdle. [17:23] >> No. Eighty twenty split. We we charge our fees regardless of of the performance. Right? But we we do provide stated interest fixed interest, let's say, and then the upside on how the portfolio or that node closes out over a period of time. [17:38] We've recently seen others in the space like Pipe, for example, just give money out willy nilly. Those founders are now no longer there. The book effectively, according to press outlets, blew up, and the company has pivoted pivoted to selling embedded finance tools to to sort of a DevOps play. Charge offs are very, very important in this space and managing them. What would you consider a good loss rate, and and are you comfortable sharing sort of what [17:59] you're under today? [18:00] >> Yeah. So traditionally, we're written off about 6.8%. That was through 12/3123 Mhmm. In bad write offs. What we see is [18:11] That's on a monthly vintage or your total life to date? [18:14] >> Total life total life average of write off about 6.8% of the receivables we purchase. [18:19] So just to be clear, if that if that that point in time, total life to date, you'd put out a $100,000,000 of capital, your losses [18:24] >> would have been 6.8. Yeah. [18:26] Okay. Got it. Do you recover any of those, or are they just gone forever? [18:29] >> No. That's what we've written off. Right? So we recover at least 50% of what goes into, defaults or collections. And and here's an interesting [18:38] And that's a 6.8 number. Right? [18:40] >> The 6.8 is a 100% right of uncollectible. [18:44] Okay. So you've already tried to put it in and and and you can't get it out. Okay. [18:48] >> Can't get it out. Right? Yeah. Here here's some interesting stats. Nine out of ten of those deals that go into defaults are not because the merchant is running into issues. They're going in because they get the debt settlement companies call them and say, basically, stop paying. We're gonna negotiate for less. Right? That's that's the problem. Because the merchants that really have a problem calls, we just lower the payments based on their sales. We work with them. [19:16] >> So the defaults that we and, of course, from time to time, we're wrong and the merchant goes out of business and does not that you know, that's the risk we take. Right? [19:23] Yep. [19:24] >> But most of the defaults we see are, again, just people wake up in the morning and decide they don't wanna pay you because they either don't or someone convinced them they shouldn't. [19:32] And what's that percent? It's obviously bigger than 6.8. What percent going to default? [19:36] >> So total total we I think trailing, it's about 12 to maybe 15% of the portfolio going to some type of a collection issue. Yep. And then, you know, we we work it out or we have to sue and then we get them back on track. But the write off is actually we're trailing about 6.8%. [19:56] How do you sue and make it worth it? I mean, if these deals are only $30, don't you lose more money on the suit? [20:03] >> Depending if he if you if you have expect the lawyers. But, you know, if you if we we've kind of worked out a policy and procedure on how we do this to make it cost effective. Mhmm. [20:15] And so as you think about building a business with a good margin of safety moving forward and you're thinking, okay. If every dollar we put out, 15% will end up defaulted. 6.8 will be actually charged off. In other words, we sued. We can't get the money. Collections couldn't get it. The company went out of out of business. You know you If [20:28] >> it goes out of business, we don't even sue. [20:31] Yeah. Okay. Obviously. Yeah. Yeah. My my point being though is that let's say in the next year, you put out a $100,000,000. In your head, you're thinking you gotta charge or make at least something like 30%, subtract the 15% default to 6.8%, then that's your margin. That's what you take home as a business. [20:45] >> You you could calculate it that way, but you're not going to have [20:52] >> yeah. There I mean, I I would do it a little bit different. [20:55] Well, how would you do it? This is all about you. How would you [20:57] >> Yeah. No. I know. I mean, so you're you're let's say your your average factor, let's say, is. 1.30, right? Because we still kind of calculated in fact, let's say your average factor is 1.30. So you put you take 100,000,000 you put out on you're going to you're buying 130 worth of receivables. Right? [21:15] >> You're going to turn that money probably one and a half to two times a year. So with a 100,000,000, you're not gonna buy a 130. You're gonna buy 200, maybe $260,000,000 of receivables because you're collecting money and putting it back out, right? And then you'll deduct your fees, your expenses and your cost of capital. [21:36] And that leaves your net interest margin. Right? Your NIM. Is there a NIM that you're optimizing for? [21:43] >> Approximately, in a good year, maybe about 16 to 18% return. [21:47] And and I just don't know anything else about, like, OnDeck and others. Is that more or less than what you know sort of these other companies in your space are doing? [21:55] >> You know, there's it's hard to say. I I look. I'm OnDeck has long, you know, lower rates that they're trying to do these deals at. And, I mean, they're great. We work with them in in in in partnership sometimes, but hard to say. I I don't know. I it's I I spoke to I spoke to someone there and they said, look. Our our defaults are about 12%. You know, defaults is one thing. Actual write off is [22:21] >> another. So it's it's hard to read. Yeah. [22:24] How do you define a default? Is it, like, once a payment is a hundred days past due? Or how do you define [22:29] >> Yeah. Once they've reached the agreement, basically, they're not remitting any of the receivables that we purchased. [22:34] And is there a cure period? So after thirty days, if [22:36] >> they're not cured? Work with look. We try to you know, we reach out to them. We try to get back on you know, get them back on track, find out what's going on. We're very merchant friendly to try to resolve a problem. But they'll block your payments, so you can't debit your payments anymore from their account. Right? They're not picking up the phone and they [22:54] Oh, so you're not sitting in the flow of funds. They've gotta hit the ACH or the wire button every month to pay you. [22:58] >> No. No. We we will debit their account. We have the permission to do that, but they they could still block your access to do that. [23:05] Exactly. Like you do use like modern you use modern treasury or something to automatically ACH the account. [23:10] >> Automatically. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And, you know, when we reconcile, we send a notice. This is your reconciliation. We're gonna debit $92 from your accounts tomorrow. Right? And then all of a sudden they block it. Right? Of course, you know, you you you reach out, you email, you call and you try to pay what's going on. So obviously, they go dark and, you know, you're returning certain number of those are blocked, that's a breach, you know, we [23:33] >> we pursue legal. [23:34] But a lot of I mean, do you have a UCC filing? I mean, how do you collect? [23:38] >> We have a UCC filing on the receivables and we we file we file in in courts for arbitration. Takes time, you know, takes time. But Yeah. Look, a lot of times the communication just works it out. Right? Yep. Yep. [23:53] This is the underside of lending of this sort of world that nobody talks about. So I appreciate you being so open about talking [23:57] >> about it. Yeah. I mean, look, at the end of the day, if somebody has a problem, you know, we try to work it out. Get on the phone. Hey. What's we try at least. I mean, if if they're talking to us, we're gonna work it out. If they're not talking, they went dark. And, certainly, if people who go out of business, they tell you, hey. I'm closing down my business. [24:14] Right? Exactly. [24:15] >> Yeah. And you just want some verification that they're closing down, and you write it off. That that's the risk you take. [24:20] Yep. Is that your target this year? By the way, you used the 100, the 100,000,000, number earlier. I mean, would you consider 2024 a great year for you guys if you put out a 100,000,000? [24:30] >> I think it'd be below my expectations. [24:32] What's your goal? What's your expectation? [24:34] >> At 300. [24:35] 300. Okay. And and what do you have to do between sort of now and December to get there? Any major changes or updates? [24:41] >> No. I mean, we're we we've created I hate using the word AI right now because we're I don't know if there really is such a thing in in our industry. It's really, I guess, teaching the computers to do what we do manually for many, many years. Right? There was a good line I heard yesterday, you know, in fintech, you're either finance or your technology. We're primary finance, right? Technology segment, right? You know, we have to, you [25:07] >> know, create returns and protect money, right? So, what I think is gonna make a difference is our automation that we've built out and our processes. So we can go from processing 5,000 or 7,000 applications a month to 50 or a 100,000 because it's gonna be very automated and shoot these offers. So that the cost of labor goes down. The cost of processing goes down. [25:31] So what's your full time team today? How many people? [25:35] >> I'd say about 90. [25:36] And how many are engineers? [25:39] >> We have five engineers. [25:41] Okay. I mean, some people might go, well, there's not a lot of engineering. Is it really automated? [25:44] >> Oh, this it it just doesn't and I'm deep involved. I'm I'm like the CEO who's first to tech. He was sitting there and writing code and working [25:51] You write code still? [25:52] >> Oh my god. It never ends. You know? It never ends because, you know, because programmers, they they they work on, like, they they I love my guys, but they're very there's no urgency with that. Right? [26:04] You gotta create the urgency. [26:05] >> Yeah. I have to create. And because I I I know what I'm doing and and I've built our platform architect that everything, I know it needs to be done quickly, but I also understand what, you know, the investors look for as far as their data, my employees, what they need to see. So I'm able to bridge all that together very, very quickly as opposed to explaining to a developer who's gonna sit there and write this out [26:26] >> for thirty days. I mean, we want something we want stuff in days that I know, you know, other people take months. [26:32] Yeah. Right. So considering macroeconomics and all that this year, I mean, you are you trying to target like a 100% year over year growth rate or 300% or more conservative? [26:39] >> Where's your We're we're we're going we're we're trying to target, yeah, way over a 100% growth here. And we we just got into, the credit card processing world because we see there's a lot of opportunities as so we like, funding merchants that have credit card sales. The biggest one in the space, as you as you know, is Square and Shopify, right? They're putting out billions of dollars and they're collecting it via the credit card sales, right? [27:06] >> So there's a great market there, but there's a lot of underserved merchants there. So for example, with Shopify, unless they invite you to take money, you can't get a Shopify loan if you're sitting on their, on their platform. Right? [27:18] Yep. [27:19] >> And and they cap you out. So we've had a lot of Shopify merchants turn to us and say, hey, Shopify only gave me this, but I need this. And these are good businesses. They've got really, really good track records or data that you could look at where you can project the future better. Right? Mhmm. So we we got into that space and we're we're actively marketing and [27:40] Who'd you use as your who'd you use as your middleware and who's the sponsor bank? [27:45] >> So we partnered with the one I'm gonna mention is Solara. They're a fantastic outfit out of Nashville. We partnered with them. And then we have a couple of other partners that, we've gotten incredible deals with. And usually, it it either goes through, you know, first out of Fiserv or TSYS, which is Yep. Yep. Process. Yeah. Yep. [28:06] And as we wrap up again, you mentioned trying to do 300,000,000 this year, and then you said you wanna be way over a 100% year over year growth, which would mean we could sort of back into volume this past year of, you know, call it a $150,000,000 at a 16% NIM, which you articulated earlier. That would mean you did about $24,000,000 this past year with your team in '91. Am I in the right range? [28:26] >> I'm not going to confirm or deny. I I I can't do that. We don't publish them. And there's a reason why we do it. We try to there's there's a lot going on with competitors in this world where [28:38] I was gonna give you credit because $24,000,000 of revenue with 90 people is very high revenue per employee for the space. [28:44] >> Well, we we did it. I think, we did about 70,000,000 worth of revenue last year, give or take. [28:51] Yep. Yep. But that just to be clear, though, that's before you're paying your cost capital on the prominence and all that. Yes. Yes. And so that's still pretty good. So that would be I mean, if you're taking 16 per I mean, you can back into something like $30.30 to 33,000,000 of revenue that you're keeping your take rate on that. Yeah. Pre pre losses. I mean, that's still very good in terms of revenue per employee with 90 [29:10] people....