How Getoutlaw CEO Evan Schneyer grew Getoutlaw to $720K revenue and 60 customers in 2019.

hello everybody my guest today is evan schneier he is the ceo and co-founder of outlaw a next-generation contract lifecycle management platform that helps people close deals faster as a seasoned entrepreneur he's built a product builder of products and teams having started three successful companies over the last decade he believes that ideas are cheap and execution is everything evan we're going to get along man you ready to take us to the top absolutely all right so the website is git heavenly yeah yeah the website is getoutlaw.com tell us what the company does if i missed anything and are you guys a pureplace sass company we are a pure play sas company yes we are a contract platform so we help we help uh both parties of a contract uh just go through the entire deal process much more smoothly and easily and take it from really from discussion to agreement including redlining if there is any it's best for i'd say medium to high volume senders so if you have a even such as yourself if you have release forms or something like that that you're constantly sending out uh that you just need to turn around really quickly it's it's makes the process of kind of drafting uh which i put in quotes because it's not really drafting it's really a template driven you know button click you fill in a few a few fields you send it out if there's any back and forth uh the whole the platform handles all of that uh and it just makes it really easy to basically to agree uh especially when usually the agreement has actually already happened in english first and so we we kind of help help people get get the english the plain english agreement into a contractual agreement really smoothly uh it includes e-signing and everything so you can really go from from hey we should do this to all right we're in contract in seconds yeah you've made signing like more conversational and less like intimidating legal like legal i mean even how you structured your website it's very clear that you're trying to just make this more comfortable for everybody yeah yeah exactly very cool okay um help me understand pricing right so if i want to sign up or the average customer what are they going to pay you per month to use this yeah we're we're actually in the process of we you may have noticed we don't have we haven't published our pricing right now but we're overhauling the marketing site uh and that that comes from a relic of we kind of started more focused on smbs and now we're moving much more into a mid-market space so the the standard starting point uh is uh based on 1200 per uh user per year so 100 a month per user and we really look to work with companies who are in the 10 plus user range so if you figure a company of maybe 100 people is likely to have around 10 to 20 people who have reason to deal with contracts that can obviously vary depending on industry if it's a real estate agency then like 90 percent of people are dealing with contracts but um i'd say our sweet spot right now at least is in the 10 to 25 user licenses per per com per organization uh and the the base price is 1200 uh per license per year yeah yeah so if you have someone signing up for 10 accounts it's gonna be like a thousand bucks a a month right 100 yeah yeah and i want to i want to come back to what you just articulated so it sounds like you're going through a pivot right now i was just debating on twitter with somebody about kind of pricing and moving up and down market so i want to chat with you about that since you're actually doing it right now um yeah yeah put it all on timeline though first when did you launch we launched uh about around early last year early 2018. okay i started picking up a bunch of customers mostly in the smb space so we got a lot of um you know a lot of one to five person agencies and things like that who have reason to send out uh msas and sows and ndas uh and other fun contract acronyms and uh so we've got we we got those are good customers but a lot of them it's hard to differentiate sometimes between those kind of real you know you can have a five-person business that has been around for 15 years and is really you know professional and then you can have a a one or two man shop who like has does not have their act together at all and so we got a lot of in the smb space uh we would get a lot of leads who were who would come in the door and say hey do you guys have contract like they would think we were a contract uh repository template you know a template library and we kind of you know i hate saying no to customers so we we like every month for for a good six months we're back and forth it was like are we gonna are we gonna grow a champlain library and offer this uh but it was just too much there were too many businesses who just were not kind of real businesses so how many today how many customers have you scaled to i can't i can't share actual like exact traction numbers but um but we're we're growing pretty rapidly uh we are i can say we're you know we're not at a million in arr yet so that's kind of the goal for the next uh really of the seed round that we raised in december but um we it's more that we're shifting from you know uh from lots of little smbs to to uh focusing more on mid market yeah yeah folks signing up customers who are 10 seeds plus yeah well i mean so if you said average acv is about a grand a month right and you're not yet it's until you're close but you're not yet at a million run right i mean that means you have caught between like maybe 60 and 80 customers something like that something around that when do you think you'll break the million mark do you think that's this year or is that gonna be next year oh man i uh i mean i'm a founder so i always think that everything can happen in like three months um you know and it could like we have we have a really healthy pipeline uh it's it's interesting in this space because we're we're jumping up market by leaps and bounds i mean when we first launched we were you know selling and also also our price point has increased dramatically um we were we were initially charging like 20 or 30 bucks a month then we discovered we could charge 100 bucks a month for the same even some of the same businesses and even that we still serve smbs but now we're signing up smbs that you know who will sign up for three seats uh for for three grand you know for the year as opposed to you know a fraction of that wait so what are you pivoting to like after you finish the website update and everything what will your new pricing look like what's that final jump going to look like the the pricing is going to be the same it's more that we're we're dealing with dramatically larger prospects so we've got we've closed a bunch of mid market customers but we're also talking to enterprise customers who are then somewhere between 10 and 50 times the size of even of the mid market ones so when you ask you know how long will it take to get to a million you know if we close two quarter million dollar enterprise contracts then the you know in the next three months which is conceivable um then the answer is dramatically different yeah you have to have this year versus next year yeah exactly have you invented any other pricing axis with a price run besides just purely number of seats it's come up a couple of times um we we've done a number of integrations with customers who who um there's a really interesting scenario actually uh where someone will have a contract as part of a larger flow uh you know be some like one of our customers is a factoring startup where they they do uh like short term effectively short very short term loans um and so they they have like on their onboarding flow there's a contract that their customers have to sign it's not just like a terms and conditions it's actually a reason you can you can build it into their your api can connect exactly exactly and so we're powering that piece of their flow see so like price around number of signed contracts per month as well besides just number of seats right so if it's so for someone like that who if if someone like if we work with someone like that who's operating a much higher volume you know if a bank said we want we want you to power our our new customer account uh contracts and we're signing up a thousand a month um then then yeah we would we would much more it wouldn't be it wouldn't be license based it would be volume based why not have let's see i always wonder why people think about it like that the most successful sas companies have both you either upset you can upsell against both of those things like let's say someone wants a ton of seats but they only do one contract per seat you can still upgrade them using the seat based approach but if you only have one user and they want to do 10 000 contracts a month you can still upsell them against that one so you'll have both right yeah we'll have both we just we just haven't activated that one because we haven't had a customer yet who yeah who makes sense for that model okay that's really interesting um talk to me first off getting 60 customers or 70 paying a thousand bucks a month is not easy in the first place so how did you get the first 10 customers what does growth look like today if you're...