How Iamip CEO Dimitris Giannoccaro grew to $960K revenue and 100 customers in 2019.

this is the top where I interview entrepreneurs who are number one or number two in their industry in terms of Revenue or customer base you'll learn how much revenue they're making what their marketing funnel looks like and how many customers they have I'm now at $220,000 per talk 5 and6 million he is help on global domination we just broke our 100,000 unit sold Mark and I'm your host Nathan Latka this is a new episode for you guys episode 69 coming up tomorrow morning we talk to Scott wingo and he breaks down how how he personally guaranteed his first 1 million doll Loan in his business and that led to a $500 million IPO 15 years later he tells us how he did it good morning everybody what's going on my guest this morning is Demetrius J aaro he founded IM amip in 2013 after an extensive career in engineering and intellectual property together with some of the strongest leaders and inventors of some something at ABB which we'll talk about here in a second the urgent need for digitalizing the intellectual property world and maximizing the potential of managing a company's intellectual property successfully has been felt every day during his work at his Company Catering to these needs have become the company's Primary Vision we're going to talk about it today Demetrius are you ready to take us to the top yes all right sure so tell us what you know that's a mouthful right so tell us what imip does and do you make money yeah imip is a typical assess company and we actually earn money by offering seats Demetrius that's such a bad way to start an interview why would you call your company typical you want to be special the best beating everybody why typical I didn't say that the service was typical I just said the typical SAS company a unique service though H all right so tell us what it does yeah and the basic it is just to create the platform where our users can collect collaborate in real time in order to access all patterns in the word and based on whatever they find they can take actionable insights you know they can find out what the competitors are doing who have the highed what type of technolog is about to come out have there been some acquisition so those are the questions that we can answer to our clients okay I'm not following so I'm launching a new company I have an idea and I want to make sure I don't infringe on someone else's patent so I use your service to search it could be yes but it could also be that want to investigate whether your solution is patentable because if no one else has filed a patent most likely you could go for a patent yourself okay also be the case okay and so is that your main kind of value metric you measure how many patents you've helped people filed every month and if that grows it means you're winning well I would say like this we have three type of Target groups we have small startups but the ones that you mentioned in the beginning we're also focusing on the medium companies but also large corporations and all of them have different needs for the small startups is of course identify Innovation so yes that's really what they can do but also to create the strategy how they should protect their unique solution because in the end of the day once you're about to get acquired by Google or whatever that might be the only actually um uh tool that they will have in the conversation will be how good IP they have of course but the medium and large one it's a little bit different because you know these companies they own a lot of money they want to be still at number one so they want to make sure that no one else is infringing on the rights they want they want as well to collaborate and create awareness within organization you know one of the most common problem within large corporations is that the the employees don't even know which type of patent the company have and that's actually the reality for do people I'm going to be provocative here for a second because cuz look I don't care about patents my general theory is copy the hell out of other people out execute them and take all their customers and make all their money so like and then I'll let the lawyers figure out the rest like there are many there are many companies that go big get acquired that have no patents why should people care about patents I think I mean actually they shouldn't care about patents you're totally right I mean they should really focus on creating money you're totally right there but if you want to be acquired later on for some huge amount of money you should make sure that you don't infringe on other rights because if you do that in particular in US you will not have a good end but like let's let's look an example right now right Snapchat just when public Facebook basically copies every specific thing they do no problem right like like patents are not what's going to make a business sell for a lot of money or like it's not going to be the determinant if they like win or lose so like give me a specific U case where a patent is very important I mean in most of the cases the patents are important for products you know when you when you develop a specific thing like Tesla car or let's say that you develop a win turbine or whatever then you need to protect it because you can look touch and feel on the thing that you offer but for the service though and that's I think where you're a little bit wrong you say that Facebook is copying I mean do you know how many patents are filing yearly they file a lot of patents and the reason why they do it is because they want to make sure that no one else will infringe on them or maybe stop them for offering a service yeah but as a consumer when I'm going do I use Snapchat today or do I use Facebook Messenger with SNAP like with filters I'm not thinking which one should I use because this one has more patents like it doesn't my point is it doesn't matter how many patents you have you have to out execute in the market to get users so like what are your thoughts on that no no you're right I mean as a consumer that I mean you should just focus on the usability I mean how good is my service that I'm using and so on and so forth but I mean in the end of the day if you want to make money you have to do it right yeah so then you have to make sure regardless whether you're Snapchat or let's say that you're uber you need to file patents because in the end of the day as long as you're small nobody will care if you do whatever they do but once you start to become the huge billion valuated company you have to create your IP well listen you could prove me wrong here because we know nothing speaks louder than money and customer so are you rich how much money are you making uh I don't make I mean come on we just a startup we are 14 people come on we are 4 Z or 14 14 14 14 people and what year did you launch in uh when when we launched the the software you mean y it was three years ago and uh today we have reached an MR of approximately $60,000 us a month okay so just to let me unpackage that for a second you launched in 201 14 you now have 14 people and you're doing 60 Grand per month in Mr Y and how many customers are using you uh we have approximately 500 users currently and we have a but we have a pure B2B business when now when you people always try and trick me but Nathan laca can't be tricked when you take when you say 500 when you say 500 C users do you mean customers or users no customers are 62 among them see look Dem that's that's a different a different question and I would say 30% of these customers are among the Fortune 500 companies okay got it so you got 500 users 62 paying customers those customers are paying on average about a grand per month to put you at 60 Grand per month in Mr yeah exactly what about funding have you raised Capital yeah we did it like uh two years ago we were bootstrapped the first three and a half years that's I would say the coolest thing I have done in my life I mean to don't have any money it's crazy how how old were you when you launched the company uh myself oh 37 and what was I was going to say what was your financial situation like did you have some in savings were you like broke was your wife going to divorce you like people thought I was crazy man come on I was I was about to become a father I still think you're crazy no I'm just kidding no you're right I mean I I would say like this an entrepreneur can't be a logic person that's sure because we don't see any problems on the road but nevertheless never nevertheless you have to make sure that you have at least bread and water you know on the table uh but what we did actually we managed to get our first client after six months so that we had a really business oriented mindset so we said okay let's be bootstrap so we can show that our you know product is is is wanted out there and once we have done it let's raise money and that's how we did it yeah but it wasn't easy it wasn't easy how many co-founders or just you uh two in myself and F and did you guys just decide to split 50/50 or how did you have the equity conversation very 50/50 and even when invited the two I think in the end in the end of the day Nathan it's about a team team playing I mean even though it was my idea or whatever that might be it's the team that will now come on you have to say that but deep down deep down when you're in your bath soaking it's late at night no one can hear you listen you must think damn it I had this idea I should have asked for more Equity when I began come on no actually Nathan honestly no not at all actually I I I regretted that I did invite more people so we could be have been much faster in the development because the problem was to find good people you guys have to go you guys know we're posting these videos live on YouTube now because we're doing you know live video you can see it on Facebook as well you can look at his face when he answers that that that question and judge for yourself if he's lying through his damn teeth no Nathan honestly believe me and you can actually ask my Founders and partners that that is what we will say to you and to be honest I don't believe in people that are eager I mean you have to be humble and share the idea otherwise come on man what are you doing listen if you want to share I'll take 30% of the company I'll join today all right but then you have to work 20 hours per day are you up with that 20 is easy I thought 21 22 is the norm so and and and come to Sweden to the northern part of Sweden then we can talk again take take me back demitrus to that funding number you said you bootstrapped you and your Founders bootstrapped for the first three and a half years you raise Capital how much you raise raised now1 million US dollar uh the first the first round and now we're about to to raise an additional round because we want to expand in a new region in Europe how much are you raising oh I think 1 million EUR one one1 million EUR which is like1 million US dollar again okay is this gonna be an equity round or convertible note no no equity round what evaluation do you want ah that is what you want to know well I'm I'm just curious how you think about it like I mean I mean look if you ask me to Value it I would tell you what how I'd value it but I'm curious how you value it no for us it was very easy to Value it I mean how looked at it we looked I mean how many how many clients we're about to get in the two coming years and this valuation run that we were in now was actually 5 million Us doll pre money or post pre pre pre so you're so you're right now going out telling investors hey we think we're worth $5 million we're looking to raise a million so we're giving up 20% of the company and well a little less 177% because our post money valuation will be five six million yeah got it little bit something like that yeah and what was the cap on the convertible note you did the first million you raised it was actually on the four4 million dollar four okay good and did you give the what discount did you give the convertible note folks for getting in early guys those of you listening by the way that don't know what a discount is that's basically reward you give your First Investors for believing in you early well to be honest due to that we were bootstrap we didn't have to give in a discount at all I think that was the beauty to be a to be a bootstrap company well no but but but but literally what was the piece how did you raise that first million was it on a convertible note no no no equity Equity oh it was an equity round got it so you've already you you did 3 million preone 4 million post on your first round now you're going to do five pre six post yeah yeah very good and then uh walk me through some of the economics in terms of each customer what's your ghost customer turn per month uh per month in average they generate something around um let me just talking US dollar for you guys it will be something around the ninth um whoa that's always a took good question it's like $5,000 per year div it with churn not poo churn what's your grow yeah how many customers do you lose like 1% churn per month 2% five currently zero okay so nobody's left NOP you have no customer that has started paying you and left over your lifetime you know why Nathan tell me we have we have created a tool where they save the most sensitive data everything related to IP they don't switch tools and they love our tool that's the difference I think you just intimidate them they don't want to scare you and piss you off cuz you know all their dirty secrets that's could be one thing I haven't thought about yeah yeah definitely no but yet actually I don't know whether we're lucky or whether we're too cheap because to not lose any clients maybe we're too cheap I don't know could be but uh but actually my prognose I talk about 2% Sean that is what I'm expecting in the future once we LA and what did you do in total 2016 Revenue did you break five I assume you did what 600 700,000 yeah exactly exactly that is what we did and now we want to break that even further so we want to go double up for this year and then next year actually we we will start to look into the US market so you want to hit 1.2 million in Revenue this year which means in December you're at 60 Grand in Mr now you want to get up to about 100 Grand in Mr by December 2017 yeah and then we will go to the Sera rounding definitely so we will start to grow globally interesting because yeah because now we were recently accepted by the UCLA Anderson program in La will will will participate actually to see how to have a go-to market strategy in US hopefully based on that out will know how to do what are you what are you paying to acquire customers it's very cheap actually we don't even meet our clients um the only thing that we do is just we give them a call you know over the video like this not Skype of course we have a go to meeting or join me whatever that might be and then we have a two to three meetings and then we are on so we don't we don't do any advertisement currently we are we don't have the money just honest how many how many people on your team are focused on sales currently I would say the whole company everybody's part of the sales the seven people are developers so they don't do anything of course in sales but the other part of the team they focus on sales and we invest like three to five hours per week that is what we can invest right now each yeah each okay so of your team of 14 seven are Engineers seven are sales people and each of your sales everyone is Engineers that's that's the change that we need to make so that's why we going to find sales people because we don't have real sales people currently wait so how many Engineers do you have seven or 14 14 Engineers you have 14 engineers and seven of them spend time five hours a week selling yeah I see I see okay good and you're all based in Sweden yep in Stockholm the beautiful capital in that's great and what what do you assume kind of lifetime value on these customers are they're paying you a grand per month how many months do they stay with you on average what's your average they sign a two years contract that's a beauty with our solution and and and that's because they want to do that particularly the large clients and that amount is growing because now we start to attract larger clients with larger Solutions so that number is going out yep yep Demetrius makes perfect sense I would maybe try and pressure you into letting me give you money and invest but a $6 million pre money on what is that 700 800 Grand AR right now is too rich for me but you're going to kill it cuz you have amazing energy so let's let's wrap up here by the way is this like a great interview or what this you weren't expecting this were you I love it I love it continue a good job let's this so now it gets easier for you okay top tribe I have to tell you many people go Nathan you came out of nowhere your website's growing so fast how' you do it the answer is simple so I use HostGator I don't know if you guys know that but I use HostGator and the reason I do they have like about 4500 free templates I can use cuz I don't code they've got a great e-commerce plugin and guys I bug the heck out of their support they've got 24/7 support which I love so what I've done is I've worked with them you guys know I make make great deals if you go to hostgator.com naathan you can sign up get your own domain for 30% off and a 45 day money back guarantee okay again on a great deals for you guys go to hostgator.com Nathan to grab that now let's wrap up with the famous 5 are you ready yep all right number one what's your favorite Business book oh uh I don't have one actually I'm not a businessman I'm an engineer what are you reading right now right now I would say I'm reading a typical book you know an old book that has been out there Steve Jobs everybody told me read that book okay let's do that number two is there a CEO you're following or studying actually one CEO that has really amazed me to be very very honest with you it's actually a company here in Sweden not famous at all but I I really like the way that they have been bootstrapped for seven years and they're making a lot of money and I respect companies bootstrapped it's a company called here in Sweden kundo have you heard about them k n d o yeah condo. SE I think you should have a look I think it's a fantastic job that he has done and we are talking a lot me and him try to share experience I mean number three is there besides your own is there a favorite online tool you have like aity scheduling to be honest with you the tool I love that's actually what I've used from in the beginning was actually H slack and slack has been the best tool ever for us because it really solves the problem we have how many number four how many hours of sleep do you get every night five and what's your situation married single do you have kids married and kids how many two not wives kids all right two married with married with two kids and how old are you I'm 40 now 4 40 all right take us back last question take us back 20 years what do wish your 20-year-old self new ah I was a I mean come on I was an ordinary engineer studying believing that I would become a good consultant nothing else never entrepreneurship whatever but most likely Nathan I would never do this again it has killed me you have to be a little crazy to be an entrepreneur right yep and I will never be that again there you guys have it from Demetrius again launch the company back in 2014 it's called imip plays in the patent World helps you discover pads see what else is out there potentially prevent litigation they've got 62 customers paying on average a grand per month they're doing about 60 Grand in mrr as of this month that's April 2017 last year in 2016 they passed $600,000 in Revenue they also have raised $1 million that first round was a $3 million pre-money valuation $4 million post money valuation that was a priced round they're now raising another million do at a $5 million pre-money hoping for $6 million post money valuation selling about $17 % of their company really healthy unit economics all organic kind of uh customer acquisition right now no churn yet again their team of 14 almost all Engineers based there in the beautiful Town City location of Stockholm Sweden Demetrius thank you for taking us to the top yeah thank you so much if you enjoyed today's episode go back and listen to yesterday's with Rickard he breaks down what you should use when you deploy your software product to keep Russians Chinese the hackers all the hackers maybe not just the Russians and Chinese but all the hackers out go listen to that episode from yesterday it would mean the world to me if you guys got any value from this episode if you would go leave a review on iTunes right now and then subscribe you know I hustle like heck to get these episodes out every freaking day for you guys and trust me I love it I would do it with no listeners but boy oh boy it makes my day and it makes my team's day when we see great reviews and get your feedback so thanks so much okay top tribe I love giving away free money I feel like o we're giving away cars and I have something special for you today how many of you have heard our super sharp guests talk about success they've had with Facebook and Google ads well all of you listening right now yes if you're listening you get $100 in free AdWords here's how you get it okay again thanks for listening get the free $100 from Google right when you sign up with my website post provider poost Gator go sign up now to get your free money host.com Nathan again that's hostgator.com Nathan