How Claap CEO Pierre Touzeau grew to $164.7K revenue and 20 customers in 2024.

hey folks my guest today is pierre tuzzo he co-founded clap that's c-l-a-a-p alongside his partner robin and tom to create a new decision-making system for the distributed era before clap pierre was vp of marketing at 360 learning a soft bank backed company famous for its async and distributed culture all right p are you ready to get to the top yes perfect all right so what how would you describe clap what's the tool do yeah so clap it's an async video collaboration platform um so basically like the kid is to say that you have like this big shift uh to a discriminated world uh one big plan that we have is that back-to-back meeting they become the norm but we like the core of the premise at any time today we want to align and make decisions basically kind of stuck between two options we have option one async written communication like slack notion and so on it's flexible but at some point we like context feel like interactivity so anytime we're stuck we need to revert back to meetings we're like okay let's talk about it let's align and we end up in the zone call and idbn what you call async the collaboration is really to create this new way to align and make decisions that combines both the flexibility of async communication with the context and interactivity of limiting and basically the way it works like let's say i'm a product manager from business guys just to just to pause for a second so it's effectively like loom in the sense that it's asynchronous but zoom z-o-o-m and the fact that you can still do live meetings exactly it's uh to sum up it's loom but for feedback and decision making because we add like on top of loom a layer of like collaboration together to annotate the video uh to make decisions and so on but it's also a way to centralize all the videos you have like in your company in just one place there's project manage some light project management tools built on top of the video so you can get stuff exactly exactly like the the the way the workspace is built is really inspired by collaboration to like click up notion asana and so on yep i don't want to bury the lead here you just recently launched on product on how many uploads did you get so i think we got 1400 i i feel like it's funny story because at first we got 100 1800 but we had 400 votes deleted the week after so i think it's one of the learning i can share if you ask too many people that don't have any account on a product and to vote you might get somebody deleted but uh right now i think it's 1400 watts and when you launched on product hunt you obviously that's enough upvotes to hit the number one spot how many signups did you get of clap that day uh so on that day i would say like during the week it was around one thousand the sign up uh but like one thousand what seven hundred uh one thousand sign up uh but then in total with the launch i would say like like the effect of the launch it lasts around like six weeks and in six weeks we got around three thousand new sign up uh thanks to the thanks to the launch interesting and how many of those sign ups can work i mean is there a paid option how many converted to paid so i would select the paid option it's something we launched recently but we don't have a payroll yet in the product we just monetize the existing account that we have but basically like for the new sign up um the metric that you track is really activation rate uh the way we make we define activation rate is number of people that record two claps and basically today it's between like 15 to 20 percent of people that really became activated user on the platform sorry what does that mean activation rate just activation rate is you sign up for clap and you record at least one video or you engage with somebody else's video but maybe don't sign up for cloud no you you record the two videos at least because we consider that the first one is the test so actually like the second one is the proper use case and then we also realized that the retention rate was actually like pretty high um actually like once you are like activated so that's really like one metric that we optimize for oh what's going on there youtube good to see you guys now imagine this you love watching these interviews with sas founders but imagine if we took all of the valuation data out from over 2807 interviews i've done manually saves you a lot of time well we've done this we've built it into the beautiful interface inside of founder path check this out i'll show you how you can access this in a second but you log in you connect your stripe account you see your valuation real time you can see what it changed over the past 88 days and even set goals for valuation this year now the secret evaluation is there's many different ways to value a sas business so the reason you're going to see three or four different valuations inside of your frowner path dashboard this is all free by the way is because depending on who's doing the buying of your sas company 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they create to some degree no no no no so to be clear so we have like one step that we measure which is activation rate um the way we define activity user is to clap recorded today the activation rate we have is in between 15 to 20 percent which is really definitely something we need to improve but then the retention rate we have it's around like a 70 to 75 percent after 12 weeks and i think it's also part of reason why we launched on product and that because we knew that the existing users that kept using the platform they were like really engaged with the product so we're actually pretty confident that we have like a product to sell and to have people use it and that we like the moment we decided to launch on product and and to pierre how many people are active today they've created at least two videos so um we have around 1400 activated users on the platform okay and so we understand the product hunt we understand top of funnel we understand conversion into active users 20 or about 1400 today so you almost have five six thousand total sign ups then right so maybe seven thousand yeah yeah so you've got 1400 active you guys then start going you know what we need to make money from this we can build a real business so how did you think about what to charge and who to show the paywall to okay so it's it's actually a good question because we we have a we tried to build a plg model and uh and when you build plg you always you always have a debate about what is the right moment to launch monetization and we actually decided to launch it pretty early not to have a payroll but at least to monetize the existing user because for us it's really a way to assess if you have product market fit because like meaning if people are ready to pay for it it means that you have like something that you want to scale so we've done two things for that um the first one that we actually contacted uh the accounts that we knew uh and that were actually like using a clap a lot with basically like more than 20 solid users and so on and the second stuff we did was pure purely like to show a pro pin in the product saying uh you've reached your account limit now it's time to pay redirect to the pricing page and then book a call with me and how many people what was the limit who who saw the banner so the banner we actually like showed the banner for the workspaces with more than 50 clap recorded and the limit was more than with more than five zero videos created claps created exactly yeah okay but it doesn't matter how many team members are on it could be one user with 50 claps they would still see the banner exactly and i think it was more of a way to create a compelling event and to kind of force the discussion because the moment we launched that realize that actually like many people they contacted us to initiate the discussion because they were afraid to lose their videos and that was really a good trigger to actually engage conversation on monetization and so on so pierre how many people saw that banner that said you reached your limit uh it's a good question i i think i don't know exactly this number because it's more in terms of like accounts uh but i would say to be around maybe 50 60 accounts okay so just a bit you have like 200 people and so on and in the end we managed to monetize around like maybe 15 to 20 accounts out of like those 50 or 50 accounts so just to build the full funnel you've got 7 000 signups 1400 are active they've created at least two claps 60 60 of the 1400 are power users at least 50 claps created they saw the paywall and of those 50 20 no it's it's small because the 60 it's a work spaces so for example in some workspaces we have like maybe 200 users so but basically in terms of monetization the number is that we roughly manage to convert like 50 of activated users i'm trying to stay away from percentages because people listening don't know you're what the base is so i'm trying to use the real number so you have 1400 active accounts and then you're giving me a 60 work workspaces that saw the paid banner how many accounts saw the paid banner i think it's uh 50 yeah in between 50 to 60 accounts okay so i guess i'm not clear what i was just saying was accurate i think there was 1400 total signups right sorry 7000 total signups 1400 active more than two claps of the 1400 active there are 60 accounts or workspaces with at least five zero claps correct yes but but in the account you can have a lot of different users if you see of course but i didn't ask you how many uh you have accounts you have workstations and you have claps created right so an account is like one user one employee at a company no no no no okay one account can be uh for example in some accounts like auto or revolut uh we can have like 200 at quantum for example we have a 200 users okay so what's the difference between what's the difference what's the difference between an account and a workspace uh it's the same like sign up like we we have a user and we have workspaces okay but when you use the word account in this interview when you use the word account in a workspace you're talking about the same thing uh yes when i speak about account i speak about workspaces okay so just to be clear you have accounts and workspaces and then inside of accounts and workspaces you have people you have some accounts and workspaces with 200 people under them how many when you say 7000 signups are those people use those or work people's places okay so seven thousand signups across how many how many total workspaces today uh total workspace it must be around the two thousand but actually like a lot of them are not activated okay so there's two thousand companies on your platform with seven thousand employees right or users is that they're already thinking about okay and then how how many how many of okay so of those two dozen companies sixty of them are power companies they have at least 50 videos created exactly we just decided to trigger this for like those companies uh yeah exactly that makes sense okay so of those 60 accounts or workplaces that saw the paywall 20 of them have converted to paid exactly now we're on the same page okay so today you have 20 paying customers exactly amazing okay so now that we understand the funnel tell me about the price how do you decide what to charge i think the the the price was they're like two stuff it's um first one is like a market benchmark uh and you compare to like existing solutions etc so we decided to go with like ten dollars per month per user and the second staff is also based on the i would say like the winning mess willingness to pay and how indispensable your tool is and for example in some uh teams like product design and so on we know that um they have like essential workflows built with clap and we can really monetize this easily so we have like a one entry point which is like the one team plan which is like ten dollars per month per user but then we can also upsell to like 20 30 dollars per month per user by adding like other features such as like meeting recording and and so on what is so you have 20 paying customers or workplaces today right 20 companies paying for your tool what does a company today pay on average per month uh on average they pay 10 10 euros per month per user well i know i don't know how many users that's what i'm asking as a company what does the company pay on average per month per month i would say they pay in average between like 200 to 300 and monthly recurring revenue okay so they're signing up for 25 paid accounts on average right right away exactly and i think it's a good validation because something that we really wanted to validate is that we are not purely a user tool and i think it's also ends the confusion on this but we are really a team tool a team platform and once people pay for it they don't pay just for one or two users but they will build for one entire team or maybe two teams on club and it's also mostly i would say i progress tech startup so actually like the number of users per workspace can actually become quite big on those on those accounts or companies understood so you have 20 customers today paying 250 per month so you're doing about 5 000 a month today in revenue right exactly yeah and where were you exactly a year ago zero right uh yeah a year ago we actually launched the product a year ago okay so no no revenue okay got it so you when did you start coding you started coding i think back in 2020 right no we actually started coding a end of 2020 beginning of 2021 for six months we really built the product we launched in private beta in july 2021 for so far for 10 months we remain in private beta we had actually like a huge wait list of three thousand users so we had a lot of like people to onboard but i think the goal was really to understand like the use cases uh where we have like a quick activation and by policies also validate that the retention is good and once we had like a good user retention that's the moment we decided to open the product um keep build like the website the branding the content and so on refined onboarding it's okay now we are going to test to open the product under the end understood and you raised a three million seed in 2021 right exactly in 2021 yeah most companies are selling you know 20 of our business in their seed did you did you sell about 15 to 20 percent no it was less actually oh as well less than 10 percent no it was less than 20 oh less than 20. okay got it so between 10 and 20 percent though exactly yeah i see okay so that i mean that's like a what is that a it's like a 20 million dollar evaluation something like that free money uh pre money it was a bit less it was uh yeah i think it was around 17 in the in the last 2017 uh yeah and have you been able to use that three million to get toriyak today or do you have to go raise more capital no we still have a lot of like we have like two or three years of runway left i think we have we like the type of product we build is not like super cash intensive uh because we are like still pretty small we are just 14 in the in the company we are like four total how many engineers uh eight engineers okay any sales people yet or no uh just one sales uh but actually like he left and i think it was maybe a bit too soon uh to do it so right now it's more me doing sales and we have one ahead of customer success actually like the former head of customer success from type form and i think it's a this is something you should prioritize when you do like a plg but cells i feel like it's something that the founder must do at the beginning especially like when you test like use cases pricing and all this kind of stuff because it's a lot of product marketing work that you need to do now when you talk about you know obviously runway you got to talk about what is your you know burn per month so you have 14 people your revenue is still growing i mean are you burning 100 grand a month 150 000 a month yeah 100 100 net burn they don't yeah and you're comfortable with that that doesn't keep you up at night no i think we are comfortable because like two things uh we have like two years of uh hallway left uh by adding actually like one software engineer so that's uh we are comfortable with that and also second stuff i think we have a pretty good signals on our side of of of pmf and and and so we are like um yeah we are pretty confident on this yeah how do you have three years of runway if you're burning a hundred grand a month that's one point two years three is three years and i think like something i forgot to mention but um so we are based in france uh and in france when you raise like three million uh you can add on top of that some depth and actually like we add 1.5 million of that debt thanks to like a bpa which is like the public uh investment bank uh such like in total we got like a 4.5 million i see i see i see do you have to pay that debt back or is it basically free money from the government uh it's basically you need to pay back if you succeed um and for any fundraising you can actually like get more debt but if you fail you don't need to pay back yep makes sense very cool well listen this is a ton of fun you know it's interesting for me to compare your story with looms i had them on right before they were launching their paywall but they had i mean they had 1.2 million right active users and so you're choosing to launch paywall way before they did in terms of your just pure usage numbers i'm i'm sure you are aware of that comp and that wasn't i i'm imagining that that was an intentional decision you made why i think it's because the play we have is a bit different um and i think like the also the angle we approach like i think a clap is really a collaboration platform uh loom was more of a pure plg product uh basically like enabling individual users to share like quick videos in slack email and so on but in the end what we like that clap we have a platform that seems used we want you to validate that teams are willing to pay for that and in the end i feel like the type of play that we have uh will be maybe a bit more self-driven compared to the the approach loom add at the beginning yeah and we also see i think that loom is trying to move up markets uh i think like one way they build the product being like super just user-centric as some limitation in actually like becoming a platform for an entire organization that's we like the we build the product like completely differently in terms of like workspace that's the key strengths but but it means that the approach is a bit more like sales reverting sales within the end yep we'll see what happens will be fun to watch you guys both over the next couple of years in the meantime let's wrap up with the famous five number one favorite book uh i think it's the play digger number two is there a ceo you're following or studying uh i really love the dave cancel from drift number three what's your favorite online tool for building the business besides your own notion you can do like so many steps on notion number four how many hours of sleep do you get every night sorry sleep how much do you sleep each night i think seven or seven hours okay and what's your situation married single kids um not single not married but not single not merit no kids in our order thirty three and this year's old set is free yeah all right last question something you wish you knew when you were 20. um [Music] it's a good question i think last time i didn't know um like my big wish would be like to speak maybe five different languages with no accents especially there you have it clap dot uh clap dot io launched on probably got six thousand sign ups converted that into sixty thousand dollars a year in new revenue really incredible funnel as they look to scale and build maybe an enterprise version of call loom plus collaboration tools built on top of that we'll see what happens pierre thanks for taking us to the top thanks nathan one more thing before you go we have a brand new show every thursday at 1 pm central it's called shark tank for sas we call it deal or bust one founder comes on three hungry buyers they try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards their expenses their revenue arpu cac ltv you name it they share it and the buyers try and make a deal live it is fun to watch every thursday 1 p.m central additionally remember these recorded founder interviews go live we release them here on youtube every day at 2 p.m central to make sure you don't miss any of that make sure you click the subscribe button below here on youtube the big red button and then click the little bell notification to make sure you get notifications when we do go live i wouldn't want you to miss breaking news in the sas world whether it's an acquisition a big fundraise a big sale a big profitability statement or something else i don't want you to miss 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hey folks my guest today is pierre tozo he's the co-founder of clap he's currently building the future of asynchronous communication in a work from anywhere world he started his career at l'oreal where he learned how the best brands become and remain world-renowned leaders before clapp he was vp of marketing at 360 learning an organization famous for its meeting limitation policies where he helped the company grow from 25 to over 200 people and more than 30 million dollars in ar pierre are you ready to take us to the top yeah all right did you get any equity at 360 learning as vp of marketing or no yes i i got some and it's funny because right now i have the opportunity to invest like small tickets in small startup and it's like a it's a it's good to be on the other side of like the like founder like from founder and employee to like first time like investor as well so you're doing some angel investing then huh yeah yeah a lot of a lot of station f stuff i hear something special is happening there yes the chef actually like we we know quite well because roxanne was actually like invested in club and we are like very friendly with them very cool tell us what club does yeah so basically like the idea of crap it's an asynchronous meeting platform and the basic idea is to say that we are living maybe the larger shift in our work in the last industrial version which is working from anywhere it's going to define route for the upcoming 24 years but we have you know like this one big issue which is like back to back meetings have become the norm uh and basically like what we've noticed that when are in the same office and let's say i want to align with you on a product prototype a spreadsheet like a deck etc it's just going to take me like five minutes i'm going to see you with my desktop maybe like show my screen ask a few questions i'm going to get like some precise feedback and then i can move on but the problem is like those five minutes i will like turn into search me and zoom call by default when we all switch to like full remote and the idb and what we call asynchronous meeting is to make it like super easy to share like video updates of your screen then to collect like precise feedback what we call incontext feedback tied to a specific minute but also like zone of your screen and then to turn this back into like next steps and decisions but without the need to be in the same room at the same time we like the idea behind this is to yeah create a new format for like quick alignment and decision making where we were kind of stuck between like two options you know like asynchronous written communication which is like flexible but limited like that like context and interactivity so when we're stuck we always revert to me things and the idea of clap is to create this a new format that combines the flexibility of asynchronous communication with like the contextualization and interactivity of a meeting got it yeah this makes perfect sense you know i found myself using loom a ton to do this sort of thing right so how do you beat companies like loom and i imagine zoom will also get into this at some point yes so so i think like the main difference with like loom loom it's more like for video sharing like if you want to share like an update it's like perfect but it's not like build to basically like collect feedback and make decisions it's not also it's not a system of record and we like the idea of clap is to really like build this kind of asynchronous like decision making workflow which is like you share an update then you get feedback then you turn feedback into next steps and at scale you basically like you also become a system of recall in the company so you create transparency and scale and and what's the revenue model how do you make money so it's a premium model so like the the idea is to have like a free plan uh which is like basically like people starting to like but recall the claps and then like inviting people to comments and clubs et cetera and then at scale if you have like a revenue model based on like a video creator how do you turn that how do you turn that on yet or you still pre-revenue so we are still pre of new we launched the private data actually like um around like one month ago and right now it's really close private beta and we have like around maybe uh i would say like monthly active user around like 100 months active user around like 30 to 30 like daily active user and we have like around three thousand people in the waitlist a bit more and it is really to iterate first on like you know like understand what drives like adoption activation and also like virality and and that's we like the goal of like this super like close private data when did you guys write the first line of code for cloud uh it's actually it was like around october november um the first pass we wanted to know as we liked the like the video recording system you know like managing like all the kind of costs related to that but we really accelerated on the development in january okay and how much have you spent on the mvp so far but what do you mean by that how much money have you spent building the mvp so far not a lot to be honest i think maybe uh 150 uh 200 okay and and so what is your goal when you guys want to launch pricing um it's it's a good question i think we want to have like a pricing model really defined when we open the public uh we we open the product to public beta because like you know like the i think like at first we are like a bit naive we wanted to launch like the pricing model in like one year or two years but we realized that if you launch a product that is like free from the beginning and then you launch the pay plan maybe one year after you it's going to be like super hard to do it so what we want to do is we need to have like the pricing plan uh ready when we open the beta so what do you think the pricing plan will be yeah and when do you think you'll open it how much time i think we'll open it like so basically we are going to do it in two steps so we are going to accelerate onboarding in september uh because we have like some good feedback on the product usage and we have like a better understanding of like the the go-to-market that works uh so we plan to keep like the private product private the accelerate on boardings and then the public beta i think it will be probably by end of the year or early next year and what will that price point be do you think the starting price point if it's a good question to be honest i'm not ready to answer i think it's do you think it'll be like a consumer five dollar a month thing or like an enterprise 500 a month minimum no i think it will be like somewhere between like 10 to 20 dollars a month per video creator and what utility-based upsell like will you build is it like would a per seat model work or a number of recorded videos per month work or like what's the usage metric yeah so basically i think like the it will be like based on like the video recorded but then the question is also in terms of like features limitation the idea of clap is really to build like a new decision making system and we are going to launch a lot of like features linked to that you know like for example one of the primitive features of clip is what we call in-context feedback so it's really like feedback type with specific like minute but also like zone of your like video and right now it's more like text plus like emoji feedback but tomorrow we have like for example system of like polls a system of like video feedback or voice feedback et cetera and what nation are you building it for though right so like if you look like frame dot io for video editing they do a good job of this but it's for a very specific niche like are you targeting sales people or product engineers or something else yeah so like the goal for clap is really to build a product for like anyone in the company it's funny you mentioned like friend otario because it was like part of like the the testing we made to launch like this feature we use like we kind of act frame dot io to like understand okay what drives adoption what drives engagement on a video if you want we like collect feedback so for us like the goal is to like build a product that anyone in the company can use but it's in terms of like go to market what we've noticed like the product teams are really like the basic like the early adopters because they have like super like you know like visual use cases like they want to don't you have to don't you have to go super deep on that niche like if you try and be everything for everyone in the company you just get deluded but if you build specifically for a product manager you can go really deep and just dominate and charge more i i i don't know because i think in the end like our end goal and our mission is really to you know like help people work from anywhere uh what we've noticed like if you want to work from anywhere and free your calendar from like back to back meetings you need to master like asynchronous communication and basically like that is to say like the way it's done today it's mostly like limited to like a synchronous written communication with flume you add context but you don't have like the world decision making system and we like the ideas to like and the mission of clap is to democratize like this way of like making decisions and like aligning internally so i i guess like it would change like the mission of the company to say this is like just for product teams and the second point is uh can't your mission change over time i mean don't all big companies start by dominating one niche i mean of course everyone has a lot of right and and i think like the second point to answer your question is more like the added value we also have for product teams is you know like one of the big nightmare you have as a product manager it's like crossteam communication like as the company grow it becomes like super hard to like align with like your sales team your customer success team your marketing teams et cetera and you are kind of stuck because you want to align them you want to collect their feedback but at the same time you want to keep like shipping like features like really fast gardens you need to have like a product that speaks to both like product teams but also like sales teams etc in terms of like um usage and complexity yeah here we're running strong time here i'm trying to sneak in a bunch of questions here quickly um you mentioned you raised some capital how much have you raised yeah so we raised three million dollars three million yes two million and how did you obviously you're you're sure pre-product right how did you raise that three million evaluation that wasn't you know super low yeah so actually like what we did um it was like a funny story but we we wanted to raise at first like 500k dollars in january uh and but before that we added like a lot of vcs on linkedin uh for a few months uh and we prepared like a landing page like for a few months like uh some social media posts etc and when we announced like clap on linkedin we had like i think around maybe four forty forty five thousand like views on the post uh hundreds of people like registered for the beta and we had like a lot of requests for like uh vc's uh and i think like ander one was in the end like super competitive we had like one time sheet in a few days and in tweaks we had like 15 term sheets and and that's how we basically went from like 500k to 3 million and what was the valuation on that uh the valuation like free money was around like 14.5 million okay so 17 5 post and who is we who's on the co-founding team you who else yeah me and robin um did you guys just split equity right down the middle yeah yeah really so you're nice you're a nice guy 50 50. yeah you know like we we've known each other for like 14 years uh we are we like best friends and and i think like the and the contribution is really the same yeah what's the team size today how many people yes who are going to be nine in september how many engineers uh five engineers five engineers okay interesting and how much of your own money have you put in the business you had a little exit i guess because you had some equity in your previous company right uh yes but actually like none because like we incorporated the right for the fundraising announcement like uh like when we had like the term sheet we are not incorporated yet oh wow okay got it and what what what got these vcs so excited were they vcs that you guys already had relationships with because they saw what you built previously or how did they find the linkedin post yes i guess it's like it's kind of um like it's what people need right now um and knew like we spend a lot of time really like iterating on like on the positioning on the narrative uh before like making the announcement to make sure like it speaks and it resonates to people uh i think like what this is like is when you come with like a strong narrative which is not about like creating a new product but like creating a new category uh and then like we also like work with like for a few months before uh just to basically like test the id so basically like what we did we did some consulting missions and the idea was to take maybe like the 15 20 different type products on the market and test them as if it was like our own mvps and we like understand okay what are like the right use cases uh what drives like engagement what drives like variability etc and in the end we had like a prototype which was like i feel like quite precise and we were like super like i guess i create to explain okay this is like the reason why for example we need to have like this in context feedback feature uh this is like the reason why we need to basically like store like recordings like this way et cetera and i think it was like the mix between yeah like the category narrative but also like the product design um we came up with like with the with the prototype yep that makes a lot of sense i'm trying to look back on your linkedin right now to find that initial post but i can't find it uh but that is how you really got term sheets that's how you got everything going so it makes a lot of sense um okay guys so launch is coming um you talked through how you built the beta list 300 folks there's 3 000 on the waiting list right now um you're letting them on one by one product engineers is the focus this all makes a lot of sense anything i'm missing that you want to chat about for last minute um no like what kind of question do you have i i i think maybe like uh because we you you mentioned that you like the the website uh maybe a few things we did um at the beginning like you know like between like the the did you who'd you pay who did you pay to do the website uh i did it myself well it's written it looks really good uh it looks like an agency did it looks really nice okay no i i think that's that's a cool stuff because you know like before i was like vp of marketing and i had like you know like a team of like a lot of people and in the end you are like nuts and then and but i love to build stuff and and it's super funny when you go back to be like a founder it's like you need to build stuff on your own so you know i did like most of the stuff on like photoshop and figma on webflow et cetera and you can read like uh yeah it's it's good to be like an individual contributor sometimes and uh yeah and really enjoy like the building the website and you like one other thing we did that was super successful because you know one of the key when you want to build like a category is that you need to earn the problem like you need to kind of build the cognitive link between like the enemy like the prem in our case like back to back meetings and the category so that like people when they think about back to back meetings they are going to think about like clap so one of the things we did for example was to launch a mid-sim calculator it's on our website as well uh and basically like you connect your google calendar and then you are going to see a lot of like stats around like your number of meetings like the type of meetings you have etc and we did like a small product launch product and launch in april and actually we got a lot of traction and visibility through like this small launch and i think this meeting this meeting calculator app is really smart this is where you got a lot of new signups from this is how you're building the beta list yeah exactly i think it's part of this we like basically like the waitlist we had it like from the initial announcement in january uh with like the meeting calculator uh and also with like the fundraising announcement campaign we did in june and i think like all the time is like you know when you don't have like any product you need to speak about the absence of the product i need to kind of like keep it like the same narrative like about the enemies and that's exactly what we did for for a few months here makes a lot of sense let's wrap up quickly here with the famous five number one favorite book uh i would say play bigger number two is there a ceo you're following are studying uh yeah i love dave cancer number two is there a online tool that you really enjoy or like uh i would say clap but right now i discovered june.so for analytics it's really cool number four how many hours i'll sleep to get every night that's high sleep per night i would say between seven to eight hours and situation married single kids uh single uh okay and how old are you 32 32 last question something you wish you knew when you were 20. tough question i would say maybe um human psychology learned psychology no human psychology ah there you guys have it guys clap launched a couple months ago three thousand on their waitlisted a three million dollar round on a 17.5 post team and nine right now growing the company two co-founders they were nice they split up 50 50 again they believe in the future of asynchronous communication using their tool with a lot of utility value highlight parts of the video where you're talking about use it at your system of record we'll see if they can beat loom and others playing in the space pierre thanks for taking us to the top thanks edwin one more thing before you go we have a brand new show every thursday at 1 pm central it's called shark tank for sas we call it deal or bust one founder comes on three hungry buyers they try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards their expenses their revenue arpu cac ltv you name it they share it and the buyers try and make a deal live it is fun to watch every thursday 1pm central additionally remember these recorded founder interviews go live we release them here on youtube every day at 2 p.m central to make sure you don't miss any of that make sure you click the subscribe 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