JobPaths Revenue & Funding (2024)

[00:00] Jobpaths.com. Check it out. Grew from $600,000 a year last year to 1,200,000 this year. Great growth. They've done this bootstrap, which we love, serving 25 customers, local governments, businesses today to connect with folks that are nontraditional candidates. Right? These are ex vets. These are ex incarcerated. These are folks need that extra help and re and they want extra help and resources to get connected with folks like Amazon looking to hire or the New York State government [00:21] looking to hire or just have a relationship with those kinds of folks to get grants and things of that nature. Looking to raise 3,000,000 now, nine people on the team. We'll see what happens next. Hey, folks. My guest today is Jack Fanous. He's the cofounder and CEO of jobpaths, a SaaS enabled marketplace, bringing nonprofits, governments, companies together to create their own new online tools to support diversity, equity, and inclusion clients. Jack, you ready to take us [00:44] to the top? [00:45] >> Let's do it. [00:46] Alright. So give me an example here. What are some companies that are using jobpaths today and what's their success rate look like? [00:53] >> Sure. So we have a wide array of clients. So when we talk about some of our customers, we have companies that are looking to recruit veterans and others from the diversity, equity and inclusion space. We also partner with nonprofits and communities and cities and states to provide them our technology, license it to them so that they can power their own initiatives to help people find jobs. So some of our biggest clients, we power the City Of [01:17] >> New York's initiative to help veterans connect with jobs both on the global process with with civilian positions, but also within the city for some civil service positions within the city. So really working with major institutions and entities, companies like Uber and Apple have partnered with us in the past. Amazon and and FedEx have all posted jobs with us. We're really focused on connecting the dots between the communities that serve underserved populations and then the employers that [01:44] >> ultimately wanna connect with them and build out their diversity hiring goals. [01:48] So just to be clear, the demand side of your marketplace are good groups like the New York State government, Uber, Amex that wanna recruit veterans and other other minorities. The supply side though, how do you get all the veterans signed up? [02:01] >> Great question. So the reason why so before I started this company, I started a nonprofit for veterans twenty years ago called GI Go Fund. We're the largest veterans organization in the state of New Jersey now. But it was in that process that I learned that when you're trying to work with the underserved populations, the way you actually capture them is by working with the communities, the organizations that are on the ground helping those communities. So a [02:22] >> lot of times companies like Panasonic would come to me and say, we wanna hire veterans, but where do we find them? The reality was they were working with my nonprofit locally, that small community group. So our thesis is if we empower all of those communities, all those same communities, whether it be Wichita, Kansas, Newark, New Jersey, Atlanta, Georgia, you name it, with the same level of technology, then everybody's working off of the same platform. We capture [02:46] >> all the users that are going to those organizations by and then ultimately provide a big marketplace for companies like Apple and Uber and Facebook to recruit from. [02:55] Okay. So how many veterans today have active profiles on jobpaths? [03:00] >> So we add 24,000 new users every single month. We have 200,000 active job seekers in the system, and it's not just veterans anymore now. We've we've expanded to individuals with disabilities and the formerly incarcerated and others that that are looking for for additional services to help them find jobs. But a really robust platform, the largest DE and I platform in the country by by far, and it comes from the network itself by providing front doors as we [03:26] >> as we see it. Front doors into our platform on the on the ground level, on the grassroots, in the community level. We ultimately build a large platform and capture those those those users that have been hard to find over the years. [03:38] How do you define you say 200,000 active job seekers. How do you define active? [03:43] >> Somebody who's been in the system in the last ninety days. So somebody who's looked for a job, applied for a job, taken some of our training classes, updated their resume, done something in the system to indicate that they're active. [03:56] Oh, what's going on there, YouTube? Good to see you guys. Now imagine this. You love watching these interviews with SaaS founders. But imagine if we took all of the valuation data out from over 2,807 interviews I've done manually saves you a lot of time. Well, we've done this. We've built it into the beautiful interface inside of Founderpath. Check this out. I'll show you how you can access this in a second, but you log in, you connect [04:19] your Stripe account, you see your valuation real time. You can see what it changed over the past eighty eight days and even set goals for valuation this year. Now the secret evaluation is there's many different ways to value a SaaS business. So the reason you're gonna see three or four different valuations inside of your Founderpath dashboard, this is all free by the way, is because depending on who's doing the buying of your SaaS company, you're gonna [04:43] get a different valuation. A VC is gonna pay a different valuation. Private equity firm is different. If you're gonna do a minority sale, that's different. And if you sell the whole business, that's a different valuation. You can see all those when I hover over here, Right? So the teal is what a VC would pay. Yellow is what private equity and red is if you sold the whole thing outright. Now what's cool about this is this is [05:05] not built off random data. Again, you guys hear these interviews on YouTube. All these datas are built from real time valuation data points founders share with us on the show. So traction, 1,200,000 seed round, 3.7 raise. They sold 22% of their business. Go in here and filter by the event. Maybe you only wanna see companies that have sold the whole business. Well, here are a bunch that have been acquired, the valuation and the multiple. Maybe you're [05:31] going out right now and you're raising your seed round. We'll go in here and look at all this recent seed deals that went down, what they raised, what valuation they raised at and what percent that they sold. There's never been a larger dataset of SaaS valuations than what you can get now inside of Founderpath. And we're thrilled to bring it to you. All right, We're gonna go back to the YouTube video here in a second, but [05:53] if you wanna check this tool out, if you wanna jump in and sign up, you can check it out for free to get your valuation at this link. This link, founderpath.com/products/valuations. Or if you go to founderpath.com and hover over products, click on get your valuation here, and go ahead and sign up to give it a whirl. Again, all that valuation data live right inside the platform. I hope to see you there. Alright. Let's jump back into [06:19] What if they just logged in and clicked some buttons? [06:25] >> Well, it depends on which buttons. But, yeah, as long as they logged in as long as they're logged in, they're an active user. [06:30] Okay. Got it. So even if they just log in, even if they don't click any buttons, you count that as an active user in the 200,000? [06:36] >> Yes. [06:36] Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Fair. And then what's the success of the marketplace look like? Right? What's the success rate look like? How many of these folks have you placed into jobs in the past thirty days? [06:45] >> So job placement is something that we typically our success rate is measured mainly by the number of communities that we empower. We understand that each community organization is gonna work with their veterans or work with their individual disabilities in a different way. Some of them are very hands on. Some of them are working with with individuals that have developmental disabilities. Others are working with people with physical disabilities. So we we allow the communities themselves to run [07:10] >> their programs which is nothing that's that's ever changed in the past. These organizations have always done so. We're empowering them with next level technology so they can connect with those employers. [07:19] Jack, sorry. So we we should be You should be able to quantify. I mean, you wanna know if it's working or not. I mean, you use the word empowered. I get it. But, you can quantify this. You can go to the City Of New York and say the new New York City government wanted to hire 300 veterans last month. We helped them hire 200. Right? Okay. That's empowerment. We helped them fill 66% of their openings. [07:39] >> Right. So what's the question? [07:41] The question is how do you measure the success rate? You you go back and you sort of use a, I would say, a fluffy term, which is empower, but what's the number there actually? If if the New York State government wants to hire 300 vets last month, how many of them did you help fill? [07:54] >> So let me be very clear on what our what our objective is as a company, and I think this is getting lost in this interview. The objective of the company is to provide those community organizations with the software to to run their programs. I'm not responsible for what they do with them after that. We just wanna give them the tools like resume building, job training, access to community resources, local organizations, and nonprofits to help with mental [08:18] >> health, providing them the resources to do so is how we gauge our successes. Our goals are not necessarily on the total number of people that are hired in each one of those local communities. Our goals are to connect the employers with those communities in a way that's never happened before. Those local communities have never had technology to connect with employers ever before. There was never a way for them to do so. The old way of doing [08:40] >> things was a company like Amazon would send an email to a nonprofit and say, hey. We have a a job opening. Can you please distribute this to your to your distribution list? That way doesn't work. Now we've built out technologies for this [08:52] Oh, yeah. It doesn't work. It's so that that doesn't get filled, that's a zero fill rate. Now if you've built something that works, you'd have a 100% fill rate. That's why I'm asking. I'm a little confused here. If you are selling software to the New York City government to connect with local and because the New York City government wants to connect with local nonprofits to help companies like Amazon hire locally there in New York, Don't you [09:09] wanna track how many folks Amazon actually hired using the technology? Isn't that a good indicator if your technology is working? [09:16] >> Absolutely. And we and we do track that. But what I'm saying to you is that the number one focus of mine is to make sure that Amazon has a way to talk to veterans that live in New York City, which they'd never had before. That's why the company was founded. Do you understand? So before before I can get to that next step, we're we're solving the first problem of the communities themselves have never had a way [09:35] >> to communicate directly. [09:36] So you're fine if Amazon is just talking to a bunch of vets, but not hiring any of them? [09:40] >> No. That's not my goal. My goal is necessary is ultimately to connect the dots. If we had an opportunity to talk about that, my what what jobpaths mission statement is, is that these communities are underrepresented in the employment sector, and mainly because most employers don't have a way to communicate with those communities. Are nontraditional candidates for a reason. That's what the term is that we're focused on here, nontraditional candidates. [10:04] Completely understand that, Jack. [10:05] >> So let me just I just finished. Nontraditional candidates are coming out of our traditional candidates are graduating from college. They're going through career development programs. They have all those resources at their fingertips. Veterans who are coming home from from the battlefield don't have those resources. Individuals with disabilities don't have those resources. People who are competing in the Special Olympics don't necessarily have those resources at their fingertips. So step one for us is to empower those communities [10:29] >> with those resources first. Make sure that the employers that we're connecting with understand that these people and these individuals have talent, they have the skills to be placed into positions. We are gauging our success rate mainly by the number of users that are taking our training classes or building resumes. Those are all big wins in this space when it comes to the diversity. [10:50] If they take your training, but then don't get a job? [10:53] >> No. That's not the goal. I I don't really understand what's confused. [10:56] What you keep saying is that I understand the product. I understand exactly what you're saying. I grew at these sub 100%. But isn't the way to measure if the training is working for a new for a vet or someone who is ex incarcerated? Isn't the way to track if the training worked is, okay, they then they then got it. Okay. They talked to Amazon. Great. But then they actually got a job. Isn't that the win? [11:16] >> If you if that's what your goal was. [11:18] Well, is that your goal? I'm asking you. Is that your goal? Like, those jobs. [11:22] >> If I could just finish. Right? I mean, I I didn't really okay. Let me let me just finish. So to understand why this company was created would be to understand why what the problem is in this space. [11:32] And, Jack, sorry. I don't I you you just repeated this twice over the past eight minutes. We're running short on time. I get it. [11:37] >> You repeated the same question twice. I'm trying to get you my answer. You're trying to redefine what the company's about. I'm telling you what the company's about. [11:43] You don't what I'm saying is you do not care. You're not measuring internally if jobs are actually created. You care about the training and the access and the communication, the open line of communication. I believe that's accurate. Right? [11:54] >> I I believe in people finding jobs. [11:57] Our number one goal is to how many jobs were created. [12:00] >> Do measure that. But I'm trying to focus because I think I only have ten minutes. I really wanna get to the point of what's important in my company's founding, why we exist. I think that's really important for me to get that message out, that the people that we partner with, the communities that we partner with, again, understand what my goal is. My goal [12:16] is to understand empower your we I'm telling you sorry. I've done almost 3,000 of these episodes. I can tell you my audience is they're rooting for you. They want your technology to work. Everyone's on board with that. No one disagrees with that. I'm simply trying to understand if your end goal is to find jobs and help these folks get jobs, how successful have you been at accomplishing that? [12:37] How many jobs have you placed? [12:38] >> This is the problem with why I cannot answer that question. Because each community has their own programs. They are running their own data. They're connecting with their own employers. They're just using my software. You're grading me as if I'm Indeed. I'm not Indeed. [12:53] I'm Okay. So you can't track that local data? [12:57] >> I can't track it if I don't have the employer's information, if I don't we're not the ones running the program. [13:02] We're I Again, [13:04] >> we're giving the program to the community to run it. Again, like I said, you're grading me as if I'm in the Indeed. I'm not Indeed. What I am is I'm giving each community their own Indeed. I'm giving each local organization their own opportunity to do that and run their programs. [13:18] >> That's what [13:19] >> jobpath is all about. [13:20] Under and you do that through online job training, resume generator, online mentorship. I I understand that. I imagine, though, these local folks that pay for your software would cancel if jobs aren't actually getting placed. Right? So so how do you I guess the first question is how many local governments or or or Amazons of the world, how many folks, I guess, are paying to use your software right now to set up these local job job boards? [13:44] >> So we have in our network, if you look at our network of sites, we have about 25 organizations that range from, you know, major nonprofits, like the Bob Woodruff Foundation is one of our newest clients that's come on board. Gridiron Capital is a partner of theirs that's come on board. They all wanna create their own veteran hiring programs. And, this is an example of us giving those organizations the technology they need to translate military experiences, right, [14:11] >> which is a big problem. So if you were if we had an opportunity to talk about this, I would say that most veterans who were they get a job code in the military called an MOS, and that's that's your military occupational specialty. When you get out of the military, you know, that doesn't mean much to the civilian world. Right? You're an 88 Mike in the military. But what's an 88 Mike mean? If you put that on [14:31] >> your resume, it's meaningless to an employer. They don't know what it means, and you don't really know how to translate it. But the the basics of it is you were a truck driver in the military. So that's very that's very attractive to an Amazon. That's very attractive to a FedEx. It's very attractive to a company that all has trucking shortages and driving shortages, but don't have the ability to connect with those users. So by giving those [14:50] >> employers the ability, this is exactly what we're doing here. It's what I'm trying to explain is By providing explained it. [14:55] I I you literally I I understand what you do. I think my audience does too. I'm I'm I'm a little confused why you keep you keep repeating the same thing. We understand it. There's 25 now of these installed. I want I'd love to understand. I mean, this seems like a great mission. How do you go from 25 to a thousand? Right? How do you grow? [15:12] >> Great question. That's exactly what we're we we wanted to talk about. So in the in the original way of of of building this system out, it would take us about two, three months to build out a system for somebody. It would take us a while to get to the point where we were, you know, comfortable with this being a customized system. It would take a lot of dev time for us to build out each individual system. [15:33] >> The sales process took over twelve months. It was very complicated. But the reality of it was we built over the last two or three years. We spent a lot of money, invested a lot of money into the business to focus on scalability. [15:45] Say that again? [15:46] How much did you invest? [15:49] >> I don't have that. I mean, hundreds of thousands of dollars. But we spent we spent a considerable amount of money over the last several years to try to make sure that the business is scalable. So what we've designed now is almost like a website builder. So, again, to the point that we're building these these sites for the communities, not running them ourselves, now a community can come to us on their own without a long sales process, [16:11] >> be able to sign up on their own, build their own site, put together their own resume builder, really, like a site builder or a wix.com, but with actual tools and resources built in there. We have over 250 training classes that these communities can now embed into the systems. They can build community dashboards out so that they can connect people with resources, and they can really grow their communities digitally, which has never happened before. If you're [16:33] >> looking at programs that run things for the homeless in Camden, New Jersey, They don't they don't have a lot of money to spend on technology or software. We're we're putting it in their fingertips now at a scalable way, very, very quick and easy, and they can do it all on their own. [16:48] And so you've got 25 folks paying you today. How how what do they what do you charge for this on average per month to use the technology? [16:56] >> So it's a it's a sliding scale depending on the number of users that they're bringing to the table and and what this specific deal is. Again, the that's a price model that was very heavy on dev, and it's not one that we're we're using moving forward. We're moving forward now. We're gonna be using a scale scalable model, which will be several hundred dollars a month as opposed to several hundred thousand dollars a year. [17:17] Okay. Got it. So if if there's the reason I'm asking, if there's a local city right now or an employer that wants to connect with veterans, right, or these folks that you've mentioned, they could expect to be able to pay you something between 200 and $300 a month to get started. Is that accurate? [17:30] >> More than like, $500 a month. But yeah. [17:32] Okay. So your average customer is paying more like $500 a month to get this technology tool set? [17:39] >> Moving forward. Yep. [17:41] Okay. I guess I'm a little confused. Historically, what you're saying is they haven't paid anything per month? [17:46] >> No. They used to pay $250,000 a year. [17:49] Okay. So of the 25 customers you have today, all of them were paying $250,000 per year? [17:54] >> The that's the high level, and the low level is a $100,000 a year. [17:57] Okay. So so you had 25 customers that you base that you charged a $100,000 to build this sort of custom for them, and now you're moving to a pure SaaS model? [18:06] >> Correct. [18:07] Okay. So 25 out of a 100,000 minimum. I mean, you've done over $2,500,000 in revenue since you launched the company. [18:12] >> We have. [18:13] Okay. That's great. And and it sounds like that was really an agency model. Right? Again, now you've invested reinvested that agency revenue to build pure SaaS so you can serve more communities faster. Correct. Are you still allowing and doing doing custom build work or you've shut off that revenue line completely? [18:28] >> We're still doing it. So, like, a major city, for instance, more than likely is not gonna wanna build their own site. They're gonna want us to build it for them. So that product is still available. If a local nonprofit, a small group like my nonprofit was when we first started, we didn't have that kind of money. We never would have been able to sign up for this product when we got started. But if it was 500 [18:46] >> or $700 a month, something like that, I would be able to to build it in because it would be of enough value because so many of these organizations, again, they use this software to go get grants. They use this software to qualify for federal grants. They use this software to get funding from different partners. That's how we gauge our success is how our partners are succeeding. And when they're succeeding using our software, we know that they're [19:08] >> getting people placed. We know that they're getting people trained, and we know that they're staying with us. They're not going anywhere. [19:13] Well, but, Jack, how do you know they're getting people placed? I asked you for that number, and you said you don't know what that number is. [19:17] >> I so I don't know that alright. So here here's an easy explanation. I didn't realize we're gonna get this much into the weeds on this. When someone applies for a job on any site, Indeed, LinkedIn, you name it, they go into something called an applicant tracking system. Are you familiar with that term? When you go into [19:33] an applicant just for just for familiarity, we've interviewed Colin Day with iCIMS. We've interviewed Pete from jobpaths. We've interviewed all the players in the space. People understand go with ATS. Tracking when you go to an ATS Just so you're aware, all these companies know and they are driven around how many jobs are placed every month. That is the number one success metric of any of these companies. [19:54] >> Right. But our company is different. [19:56] Our company is focused on a different clientele. Our our company is focused on [20:00] >> a clientele that has never been able to provide their users. And again, you're talking about traditional job seekers, and I think that's what's lost in this translation. You're talking about traditional job seekers, and we're focused on nontraditional job seekers. We're doing things that have never done done before, which means it's the the metrics are a little different. Our metrics are gauged by how successful our communities are. [20:19] By what? Grants grants landed, jobs placed, what's what's the quantity number? [20:24] >> Veterans or users assisted. So, again, we have other resources [20:29] many was that last month? [20:32] >> Well, let me give you an example, as an example for you. [20:34] Well, Jack, sorry. We're running really short on time. I think we're talking in Yeah. [20:38] >> I really wish we could have spent some time on this stuff. But the the reality is we provide users with, again, because we're talking about nontraditional candidates, some people are facing mental health issues or homelessness issues. [20:49] Jack, I totally understand who you're serving. You've said it. [20:52] >> No. No. But what I'm saying [20:53] is that we're getting caught up in [20:54] >> our name jobpaths, and you're focused only on that. When But we connect people with housing, when we connect people with mental health resources, when we [21:01] connect people with mental connected? I've I've asked this question seven different times. How many people have you if it's not job placements, how many have you connected last month? [21:10] >> So 24,000 new users have signed up for our system. [21:13] Okay. [21:14] But how many have you connected? [21:15] >> 18,000 new users every month have connected with a new resource. Close to 12,000 users have applied for a job. So not everybody's even applying for jobs. Not everybody's looking for work. We do other services. So 12,000 people have applied for jobs every month. New users have applied for jobs. The placement rate for that is close to 20%, but that takes over ninety days to place. Yep. So to make it very clear to you, [21:40] >> again, each one of those communities is different, and some of them are acting faster because they have analog resources, right? Like, so, a small nonprofit is still working with a small company, and they have a longer process to prove, While a bigger nonprofit like Bob Woodruff Foundation has a lot of staff and is able to report these things much quicker. [21:59] Understood. How many folks are full time at the company today? Nine. And and are you bootstrapped, or have you decided to raise capital? [22:06] >> We are just starting to raise capital right now. [22:08] How much are you looking for? [22:10] >> $3,000,000. [22:11] And why what makes this expensive to build? Why can't you try and keep control and keep bootstrapping? [22:17] >> So we we're cash flow positive. We're in revenue. Right? We make we make money. We're doing well. The issue is, can we grow this and scale it fast enough? And the truth is, if we can get some gas poured onto this in a in a sales process, in a marketing process to get this word out to as many communities as possible. So, again, we we see the the nonprofit community, the workforce development community as a as [22:39] >> an enormous, enormous market. [22:43] You're muted, Jack. You muted yourself. [22:45] >> We understand that the all of those organizations, all of those nonprofits are in dire need of software and resources to grow out their communities, we ultimately just need to get the word out to them that that we exist. [22:57] And when did you launch the business? [22:59] >> The original business was 2013, and this model of licensing our technology was 2018. [23:06] And in terms of just licensing revenue today, how much are you doing per month, and and how quickly do you think you can break, you know, a million dollar run rate? [23:14] >> So we are at we we we're at this this this coming year, we're at $1,200,000 for the year is our is our revenue. We're we're on pace to do over 2,000,000 for the for the following year, for the next year, but really wanna see that grow. Wanna see that multiply and grow and and and feel we can do that with some with some capital. [23:33] And if you're gonna do 1.2 this year, what did you do last year? [23:37] >> $685,000. [23:38] That's great growth. And how much of that how much of the 1.2 you're gonna do this year is SaaS versus the one time fees, the setup fees? [23:45] >> None of them are are one time fees. Those $250,000, that's a year. So it's 250,000 a year is our bill. [23:51] Oh, I see. [23:52] So you keep it. [23:53] But after you build it in the first year, do you keep charging 250 k every year? [23:56] >> Yeah. That's the licensing fee. [23:58] Ah, okay. Got it. [24:00] >> Got it. And the build is included in it. [24:02] I see. I see. So you've got 1,200,000 coming in across 25 customers. That's $50,000 per year on average right across those 25 customers or about $4,000 per month. [24:12] >> Sounds about right. [24:14] Interesting. I love it. Alright. Very cool. So you're raising now. We'll see what happens in the meantime. Let's wrap up here with the famous five. Number one, favorite book. [24:22] >> George Bush's leadership book. [24:25] Number two, is there a CEO you're following or studying? [24:29] >> I I would like Daymond John. [24:32] Number three, what's your favorite online tool for building jobpaths? [24:37] >> Jobpaths. [24:38] Besides your own? [24:43] >> It's an interesting question. I guess I like collaboration. We'll we'll go with ZenHub. [24:49] ZenHub. [24:50] Number four, how many hours of sleep do get every night? [24:53] >> Three. [24:54] That's not healthy. [24:57] >> I'm a busy guy. [24:58] Well, still, three hours. I mean, NEBC looking at it, think he's gonna go, you're about to die. If three hours of sleep, you can't live. [25:05] >> Even when I was a kid, I was like that my whole life. [25:07] You've you sleep on average three hours per night? [25:10] >> Yep. Except for Saturdays, I might get five. [25:14] >> Wife makes me sleep in another room because I wake her up. [25:16] I didn't scientifically, I didn't even know that that was possible to survive on three hours of sleep. Interesting. Okay. And so you're married. Any kids? Nope. Okay. No kiddos. And how old are you? [25:27] >> 42. [25:27] Last question. Something you wish you knew when you were 20. [25:31] >> That this interview was gonna be this hard. [25:34] What makes the interview hard? [25:36] >> I I didn't you know, I I was hoping to be able to have a conversation about what our mission was and not [25:42] Jack, I'm gonna tell you. People are gonna be in the comments after this. You said your mission, like, eight times. I guarantee you [25:47] >> people are gonna be to know. I want people to know the mission because not many people are a part of that, and not many people understand what we're doing. And our our goal here, our objective is to get people to rally around the idea that nontraditional candidates need extra help, and that extra help comes in nontraditional [26:02] You made that very clear, and people are gonna be rooting for you. I can guarantee you. I I I promise you. So listen. Hey. Nice work, guys. Jobpaths.com. Check it out. Grew from $600,000 a year last year to 1,200,000 this year. Great growth. They've done this bootstrap, which we love, serving 25 customers, local governments, businesses today to connect with folks that are nontraditional candidates. Right? These are ex vets. These are ex incarcerated. These are folks that [26:25] need extra help, and and they want extra help and resources to get connected with folks like Amazon looking to hire or the New York State government looking to hire or just have a relationship with those kinds of folks to get grants and things of that nature. Looking to raise 3,000,000 now, nine people on the team. We'll see what happens next. Jack, thanks for taking us to top. [26:40] >> Appreciate it, buddy. [26:42] One more thing before you go. We have a brand new show every Thursday at 1PM central. It's called Shark Tank for SaaS. We call it deal or bust. One founder comes on three hungry buyers. They try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards, their expenses, their revenue, ARPU CAC, LTV, you name it, they share it and the buyers try and make a deal live. It is fun to watch every Thursday, 1PM [27:07] Central. Additionally, remember these recorded Founder interviews go live. 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