How Algopix CEO Ori Greenberg grew to $3.8M revenue and 5K customers in 2024.

hello everyone my guest today is zory greenberg he is the ceo and co-founder of comic called algo picks the only place to understand ecommerce market share pricing and promotions of your competitors and categories in real time he's powering fortune 50 cpgs and marketplaces algopix gives you a window into now not weeks ago with 1p plus 3p coverage you can adjust your current market conditions boost sessions and conversions with more relevant merchandising and pricing all right are you ready to take to the top yeah now you say in this bio that you put in here the only place to understand e-commerce market share i mean there's a lot of players in this space why do you use the word the only place to understand this we're actually the only ones who provide market share insights into sales that occur on amazon.com as well as walmart ebay google shopping etc there are other players that do only one of these platforms usually it's amazon and they're basing their data on scraped kind of information we actually have transactional data so that that makes us unique in this that's a huge that's obviously a huge advantage so we want to understand this advantage how did you get access to such exclusive data that nobody else can get access to so we put it as obviously our goal to do that so we support more than 70 000 brands and online sellers that share data with us in return for using free e-commerce tools okay so you're not you're not getting a direct feed then from amazon or from walmart or from these ecommerce players you're getting them from brands that use you you then are using their data and selling it back to other people we're processing and anonymizing the data and then we're selling it yes that's correct okay got it uh why can't sorry i don't understand why can't somebody else do that well they can it's just a huge data set that requires a lot of data processing i see i see okay so give me more of the backstory we had you back on the show um earlier but for people that missed that what kinds of customers are are you know the average user of your data is mainly cpg brands so it would be the cpg brands as well as the um marketplaces themselves we have customers like google shopping facebook's marketplace walmart so both okay both and you founded the company in 2016 correct that's correct and walk me through sort of how you've grown over the past 12 months you know last time it came on i believe it was i think middle last year right wow i think was maybe two years ago something like that okay maybe two years ago even um you know obviously we're in the middle of pandemic there's a lot more happening on e-commerce over the past 18 to 24 months how's that impacted your business i think when you came on you said you were working with about 2000 customers how many are you working with today so a lot more we started by serving uh smbs uh we grew and went up market to kind of mid-level customers uh and we're now serving probably 1450 fortune 100 companies as enterprise large enterprise customers so i would say we have probably about five thousand smbs uh that we're working we're walking away from that business model we need to focus on the larger uh companies probably about a couple of dozens of meat size companies paying probably a thousand dollars a month on average yep um and we're now focusing on companies able to pay six seven figures to get tons of value and actually increase their market share and how many of those kinds of customers do you currently have probably about a dozen a dozen do they graduate up i mean can't they start as an smb then move to a grand a month then move to 10 grand a month well they can but now that our solution supports really the biggest companies we focus on getting to them initially and not kind of maturity existing customers it's just a different sales process different type of customer and and so how is this you know churning off grandfathered accounts is obviously sort of a delicate act you don't want negative word of mouth hitting the market um but you also don't want to force them into a plan that's 10 times what they're used to paying so how do you gracefully churn these folks off great question realizing that that's not our market but still supporting the product because it's the same kind of infrastructure for the enterprise product we're gonna give our product away for free that's our kind of way to thank the community so we're going to continue to support we have over 70 000 free users we're going to continue supporting them i see okay now those 5 000 smbs on your platform are they still paying that smaller rp about 20 a month yes yes we do encourage them to kind of walk away from that paying model to the data sharing model which would benefit them and us and in terms of your total monthly revenue right now how much of it is still smb focused uh less than less than 40 okay got it got it so 5 000 at 20 bucks a month is about 100 grand a month and if that's 40 of your revenue total revenue something closer to what 220 a month right now 230. i love your real-time calculations you're you're great we uh pay us average thirty four dollars a month so it's a little bit more but you got the number the down numbers uh about right okay got it so total business call 230 000 per month that's obviously up significantly since our interview a long time ago but what is that up you every year um i must tell you that these are the numbers that we're aiming to complete 2020 uh but it's it changed dramatically over the past 12 months since we started focusing on enterprise customers well i guess the a more clear question i should have asked was exactly 12 months ago how much were you doing per month uh we grew about 300 last year okay so over the past 12 months you've grown revenue about 300 percent that's great okay got it got it so that would you know again if you're doing about 230 uh per month right now 230 000 that would be up from 70 000 uh a month about a year ago something like that and and would you credit most of that it sounds like you would you'd credit most of that growth to onboarding these thousand dollar a month accounts or these dozen or so even bigger accounts than that the enterprise deals the enterprise deals are the biggest growth engine where i believe that by the end of 2021 will still stop supporting the medium-sized businesses yep and have them all enjoy your free plan obviously have you been able to do this without raising additional capital or did you do an additional raise no we didn't need to raise we generated more revenues than expected that's great so it's still only three million raised yes and last time you came on you were still burning to drive growth are you still burning company and you're comfortable with it or have you gotten back to break even um we're still burning but we're okay we have a decent runway and our existing investors are always there to back us up if we spend more than we planned on which haven't hasn't happened we're on the good side of coffee i'd say yeah why i mean most e-commerce friends right now if they've got capital they can access they want it so they can drive growth right now i mean e-commerce is the thing right now and people can't go out and shop i mean you haven't raised does that mean you're not quite sure where to spend money to get new enterprise customers no we plan on raising funds in q2 2021 we know probably grow our sales team and focus on that you're right why is that though you already have great growth 300 year over year why do you why wait to raise we're not ready organization wise in a healthy way the question is it makes sense just not the right timing for us so how many folks are on the team today i'd rather not talk about that if you're okay with it uh i'm i'm okay not pushing there i am curious why you feel like that's a competitive advantage to for people not to know your team size right why is that an advantage well if i tell you that then i'll tell you the theme size but i think we're very effective in terms of uh producing the product versus the number of you know the headcount um yeah i mean look one of my favorite things to measure is revenue per employee right teams that can do more with a less number of employees are obviously you know great businesses uh but that being said if i go to your website and and click on your linkedin link in the footer a linkedin profile we can go there and see it lists 17 employees so i'm just a little confused why they're listed on linkedin but you wouldn't want to reveal them in a podcast well i'd rather not say the number but you have right about the number it's it's plus or minus that number i see you you meant the reason i wanted to go here is because you mentioned your sales or getting in the right spot to be able to uh raise the right amount and not raise too quickly do you have quota carrying sales reps now are you still doing all the sales i'm doing most of the sales okay so i mean are you nervous about that how do you pass that playbook off to somebody else and trust them enough to execute i can't wait to learn from other people about that this is my first time doing enterprise sales i'm sure i'll learn a lot i wouldn't say nervous i'm excited about it i just feel like i am not in a position to give someone the handbook yet and i feel like when i hire it should come with a basic handbook so we're still learning we're good we have a good product market fit in the marketplace segment but we still need to finalize kind of make sure we have a good product market fit on the branded cpg space so that's something i focus on and what is that playbook look like today how are you adding new accounts so uh zoom info has been very helpful in kind of mapping the market sizing the market realizing all the relevant players and within the organization the buying persona it's just making people um react that's the playbook and making sure we do it in an automatic scalable way so when we reach out a new prospect delivering insights on that first cold email that's what we're building and you're saying zoom info is helping you find that prospect to reach out to right what are you you have to give zoom info input so they can sort what sort of inputs are you giving them company size categories it's very basic actually okay and so company size is what fortune 50 and what's the job title so over 25 million dollars in revenue would make them relevant okay you charge six seven figures that that should be their size um and the right categories you know retail e-commerce brick and mortar whatever it's about fourteen thousand companies uh that's our market and what's the job title of the person you're trying to reach it could be from a data team uh to a catalog team to a category manager brand manager it's different between marketplaces and brands but that's that's the titles if your tool helps people manage you know price sensitivity i mean why aren't why doesn't that fall under like a cro sort of role we would need that next year definitely okay got it so i mean you just mentioned data team catalog team brand manager um cro is related to marketing usually and right now we can tell you the market share for example and what changes in that market share and you can only act on it or mainly should have tonight as a brand manager or category manager these are insights that would help you play within the category as a cro you would need to kind of adjust marketing budget so you would need to measure how marketing campaign was effective and help you increase the market share versus um kind of the the actions that you do and we don't have that connection between the marketing spend and market share measurement directly yet so it's still working process i see i see interesting okay very good um what is your i mean next year when you scale your sales assuming do you are you how are you going to test i mean this is a moment that every sas founder goes through is how you test your first couple sales hires how are you going to go about that test you know some people say hire two so you get an a b test one say higher one invest all some say hire as many as you can then fire all the ones that don't hit quota what are you gonna do i hope i won't make that mistake and i'll get help from other founders who will help make the right choice but being realistic i will probably make that mistake and i suppose i'll hire a pod pot of three that is what we have in mind right now right a sales leader sales manager and an sdr and hopefully we'll get everyone right the first time probably not but aiming to get it right even if the sales team is great if churns too high doesn't matter how much folks you bring in the top of the funnel what does gross revenue churn like today oh we don't see any churn at all for the for the enterprise customers which is the focus i mean they continue building features and capabilities over our engine so i'm not concerned about churn uh sorry the reason i asked about gross revenue turn instead of gross logo churn is you just articulated you're intentionally turning off the revenue from these 5000 smbs which currently still makes up over 100 000 of your of your revenue so i think you will you do see churn that type of churn i'm not concerned about it i think if if we're talking about fundraising or company valuation-wise since this is not our focus we're stepping away from that model and no one is looking at that revenue or counting that revenue so i don't count it as churn well hold on hold on you can't have it both ways you just told me revenue was 230 000 a month and you said 40 of that revenue is the smb so you are counting it well we calculated the revenues but if we were to raise funds it would be based on the smbs i would discount that revenue so you would just say hey we're doing 130 000 a month in revenue you know money was that a better runway because we do have that revenue but it's not the business that anyone would invest in or anyone would acquire because of right yep got it okay it makes good sense what about cac so to land a new customer paying you a thousand dollars a month what are you gonna spend to get that excuse me can you please repeat the question sure to land a new customer paying you a thousand dollars per month what's your cac look like well we since the sales team is very thin right now it doesn't really cost us a lot of money it's just cold emailing as we scale up i assume that will just be an enterprise sales business model will the cost will probably be 20 well there there must be other things you include in the cost to acquire a customer besides literally fixed salary expenses associated with an account executive right now nothing what else you don't value your time aren't you doing all the sales right now i value my time it's probably 30 percent of my time is dedicated to sales but i didn't price it that way if you don't have a good idea of what cac is right now how do you know what to set quota at and things of this nature for the first sales hires you make um it's basically it's going to be based on my achievements in 2020 so i know what their goals should be should be better than me um but basically i know their goal and i know their expectations versus the base price uh base salary if that makes sense why do you expect that someone you hire and bring in that you know owns nowhere near as much of equity as you do they're not the founder they're just joining the company why do you expect that they're going to be better than you at selling aren't you going to be the best ever i'm a data person i'm an engineering character i'm not the pushiest salesperson i'm not that experienced in that that's my first time selling an enterprise product while being my third company um i do expect and that that's true about every manager that i bring they should be better than me and pretty much everything yeah no it's a lot of founders and make the first sales higher they make the assumption that that first sales hire should sell more than the founder and it's almost never the case because the founder knows the product the founder has an unfair advantage because customers always want to talk to the founder there's a little bit of a celebrity factor there but you're going in expecting that that first sales hire should sell more than you've sold in the past 12 months yeah i i might be wrong but that's my expectation i mean i i do spend 30 of my time doing it and they'll spend hopefully 120 of their time doing that i just hope that they'll get rich doing it and do that because it's their passion so i do i do expect that to come into play yeah what is a high i mean you're an engineer you know 120 of their time doesn't exist that's impossible you have 100 of the day yeah yeah uh so if an average person works for uh eight nine hours a day i expect them to enjoy their work so much and i i have the same feeling right people are excited about our product excited about our solution if uh i had more hours a day i would do that i would work more fair enough all right let's wrap up here with the famous five number one what's your favorite business book oh uh i didn't prepare for that but i guess uh the hard thing about hard things by ben horowitz number two is there a ceo you're following or studying huh i'm keeping track of uh jonathan shirky i think it's pronounced from uh content square and uh i was there uh mclean uh he's the founder of tachometrics which is in our space and he's doing very well number three what's your favorite online tool for building the company i would say zoom zoom in for hubspot super helpful these days number four how many hours of sleep do you get every night about six six is enough and worry what's your situation married single kiddos happily married with two uh kids uh ben who's one year old ronnie who's three-year-old and uh we continue counting ben and ronnie and algo picks how old are you ori i'm i'm 36 already all right last question was something you wish you when you were 20 i would probably i spent about six years in academia becoming an engineer at the nba and i would probably choose to fill three setting up three companies and would learn more from doing that than than during the the time i did guys there you have it algo picks moving from working with 5000 smbs these are cpg brands merchandising brands you know doing a hundred thousand dollars in revenue to moving upstream you know mid market fortune 500 folks they've scaled revenue as they've made that transition up to call it a 2.6 million dollar run rate today up from called a million dollar run rate just a year ago it's almost 300 year-over-year growth as they look to scale still doing all this capital efficiently just off three million dollars raised looking to potentially raising q2 q3 after they make some key hires in their sales organization currently about caught between 15 and 17 folks on the team alright thanks for taking us to the top thanks for having me have a great day keep safe one more thing before you go we have a brand new show every thursday at 1 pm central it's called shark tank for sass we call it deal or bust one founder comes on three hungry buyers they try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards their expenses their revenue arpu cac ltv you name it they share it and the buyers try and make a deal live it is fun to watch every thursday 1 p.m central additionally remember these recorded founder interviews go live we release them here on youtube every day at 2 p.m central to make sure you don't miss any of that make sure you click the subscribe button below here on youtube the big red button and then click the little bell notification to make sure you get notifications when we do go live i wouldn't want you to miss breaking news in the sas world whether it's an acquisition a big fundraise a big sale a big profitability statement or something else i don't want you to miss it additionally if you want to take this conversation deeper and further we have by far the largest private slack community for b2b sas founders you want to get in there we've probably talked about your tool if you're running a company or your firm if you're investing you can go in there and quickly search and see what people are saying sign up for that at nathan lacka dot com forward slash slack in the meantime i'm hanging out with you here on youtube i'll be in the comments for the next 30 minutes feel free to let me know what you thought about this episode if you enjoyed it click the thumbs up we get a lot of haters that are mad at how aggressive i am on these shows but i do it so that we can all learn we have to counter those people we got to push them away click the thumbs up below to counter them and know that i appreciate your guys support all right i'll be in the comments see ya

hello everyone my guest today is ori greenberg he has years of experience in the e-commerce industry and co-founded and managed algopix a global market analysis platform for the e-commerce community he also co-founded and managed a successful ecommerce agency called icommerce which was acquired and more or are you ready to take us to the top yeah sure all right so algopix.com is your main baby right now help us understand what the company does and what your revenue model is is it agency or sas this is sas products we basically help the 15 million online sellers decide which items to buy from their suppliers and we help them decide what's the best sales channels for them to sell their products at so this is a demand level analysis product for e-commerce sellers okay any specific platform shopify amazon somewhere else anyone who's selling online before they sell online they must buy their inventory from a supplier that's a problem that no one else is solving and we're focused on solving that problem only again any specific platform you're servicing or all platforms across platforms okay do you see a concentration in terms of your set your folks buying from your again via your tool to then go sell on amazon or ebay or a specific platform or no concentration no concentration most sellers today sell on amazon but most sellers also sell across different channels so their own website amazon walmart ebay and so on and then on average what are these folks these sellers paying you to use your technology a monthly or annually whatever you prefer so we charge about 20 a month depending on the number of items you need to analyze on a monthly basis and we also have an api for bigger companies so you upsell based off number of skus it sounds like you upsell based off number of api calls any other upsells no that's it no nothing seat based no it's it's a very straightforward uh model okay uh there's a lot of companies that will essentially help you do arbitrage between amazon and say ebay and then take a percentage of the arbitrage in between you don't do any kind of that stuff do you we help them decide which items to list but if you can list as many items as you'd like there's no much sense for you to make your market research well the the trick on a lot of this is actually speed because you can identify with using code and arbitrage play on amazon and a very specific niche where there's a couple cents of margin that you can buy there and then go sell on amazon but these things disappear like overnight sometimes so if they identify need and then call you and say i want to buy 100 of these things but it takes a week the opportunity potentially is then gone at the end of it so how quick can you help them do this if you utilize the api we can do everything uh in real time okay well again what does that mean if i use your api right now to go buy 20 beanie babies to sell on amazon how long will it take me to actually have that inventory available to sell so we don't provide the inventory we provide the data but if we'll help you identify an opportunity so for example if you can buy an item on amazon and it has a higher price on ebay and high demand level on ebay will tell you this is an item you should buy and we'll keep track of the price changes and demand changes over time so that using the api you can post the right items in the right channels does that make sense it does yeah and based off the average price point you said it's 20 per month it sounds like you're serving you know more of the long tail than you are you know you know you know the walmarts of the world right big brands paying you 10 million a year so we serve everyone who needs to buy inventory just that the bigger companies have their own enterprise uh agreement whereas most of the companies selling online are smbs okay so aim solving the problem for both ends of the well again that's why i want to make sure i'm getting this average rpu correct is it truly 20 bucks or when you add an enterprise accounts is it more like 2 000 a month or 200 a month an enterprise account is more like 2 000 a month okay so again when you look at just because we don't have time to go on every customer co-op when you look at your entire customer base do you do you feel like the average is closer to 20 at the 20 you already told me or more since we have thousands of customers paying 20 it's closer to 20. yeah that makes sense and put all this on a timeline for me when did you launch the company we started the company in 2016 when our former company was acquired and we only started monetizing the platform about seven eight months ago and growing uh about 30 month over month ever since i hope so going from a dollar to three dollars month over month is 300 percent growth so you better have big growth numbers when you're starting at zero that's that's correct i i asked that will continue growing at that pace that's good i mean how long i mean again the real question there is not how long can you keep doing it it's it's how big like what big numbers can you keep multiplying by 3x month over month so i mean what amount of ar do you think you can grow to still growing 30 month over month before it becomes just too difficult i believe that what we do today can become multi uh billion dollar company not by answering today's questions but answering the futures questions as well okay so this is good yeah cool it's great so it launched in 2016 started selling about uh seven months ago and then how many customers have you scaled to today we serve over 30 000 businesses okay how many are actually paying though it sounds like there's some free users in there yeah in the thousands okay um how have you you know it's a you know being able to convert someone from a free model to paid is obviously a skill set in any sas company whether it's your direct space or other spaces educate us a bit on how you've effectively converted some portion of your 30 000 into paid customers we focus on retention we try to make sure that we add value to our customers and that's why it took us a lot of time to start monetizing we needed to make sure that people use the product on a weekly or daily basis and uh that's the main company's focus so we're 10 people focusing only on making sure that our customers have the need to use the product on an ongoing basis so i mean this can obviously be measured right so if you look at your monthly revenue churn what have you minimized that down to so it's about the industry standard which is for smb sas is between three to five percent okay so you're about five percent per month yeah okay and um how did you get imagine there was some testing in the early days to get it down to that level what do you know that you have to get a new sign up a new free sign up on your site to do in the first kind of a week to drastically increase the likelihood they pay so we need to make sure that they run a specific number of searches and that they are happy with the results that they get that they get the right products they get value out of the product that way we can uh pretty much tell who's gonna be a customer and who's not gonna be a customer facebook new if they help to get seven friends in the first ten days you're really gonna stick what is your version of that in terms of number of searches you know they have to do about six searches or uploading one price list from their supplier that's the best way to see immediate value in what period of time one week one one trial which which is the time to yeah oh i see i see i see oh so these 30 000 folks that have signed up they can't stay free after seven days they have to pick either go away or start paying that's correct oh i see do you run it so you said a couple thousand are actually paying for the 30 000. let's just assume you don't want to actually give the specific that's why you said a couple thousand let's say it's 2 000 right um what do you do with the other 28 000 do you do any re-engagement campaigns or anything like that after the trial is expired yes on an ongoing basis we try to make sure that we communicate changes in the market educate them about the reasons um why they should do market research because most sellers they buy and sell inventory based on their intuition now most of them are professionals but and they are right 80 percent of the time just being wrong 20 of the time is a big problem so we try to communicate these messages and and let them know when new features are available maybe these ones are helping them solve the problem now have you bootstrapped the company or did you decide to raise capital we've raised money okay how much has in the company so far until now about three million dollars and why did a product like this require capital i mean i hate seeing a founder like you take dilution yeah um it's just that the product is a deep tech uh product it took us a lot of time to develop it's it's machine learning and ai based uh and it also took us time to generate the um agreements with the content providers so the biggest data providers we work with our companies like google amazon walmart and ebay we don't do scraping at all so these are the reasons things took time and efforts why why on earth would these companies give you their oil which is their data i mean without you paying them a crap ton of money we helped their sellers perform better so some of them had pilots with us for over six months where the pilot approved improving sales volume increasing sales volume by over 500 percent international sales point for example so we help their sellers do better and we're basically a team that's working for the company well hold on what are you doing are you are you recognizing that the uh the crock pot that amazon is selling for 15 bucks the same sku can sell on amazon tomorrow it's at 17 bucks and you're helping a seller run that arbitrage that to me is what i thought you were doing which is i mean yeah it's arbitrage it's i mean it's helping sellers do better but it's still taking from one side of the market you're taking from walmart and giving to call it an amazon or vice versa so let's talk about the main two use cases one of them is i just received the price list from my supplier with 1000 skus i can buy from them how do i decide which items to buy second use case is i already sell on amazon i have 4 000 skus and i'm thinking what's going to be the next step how can i grow the reason amazon would give us information is because we can ally which is uh focused in the us and we can tell you what's the demand level for your items in the uk germany or australia will tell you the market price there the sales related costs such as shipping marketing tax bt if you're selling in europe so basically if you know out of the 4 000 skus only 1 000 has high demand in a different country and out of those 1 250 uh you're competitive in pricing then you should focus on listing these 250 products first maybe even sending them to a local fba and will quantify the opportunity we'll tell you if you do that you'll sell another 1 million dollars a month in the uk or europe or whatever it is the new channel there's 20 companies doing what you do let's say take a metrics which is about to process six billion dollars of total gmb through their platform in this same sort of model but it's but it's but it's ad based they're all making these recommendations so if you all today see an arbitrage play and you give it to your customers that again whoever lists them first will erase that margin and then everyone else that acted on your recommendation that was second or third loses out how do you deal with that we are as part of our recommendations we also do competitor research so that we can tell you whether the competition is high medium or or low the demand level is high medium low or low and the margin and based on your margin if you can't compete in pricing and there is high competition there will tell you not to get into it even if you we can see 15 margin today and i don't think any other platform out there will tell you the sales related costs such as tax and vat and so on so if you're looking to grow and that's necessary data does that make sense it does yeah yeah um okay so 2016 you found the company again customers paying average 20 bucks a month you said earlier 30 000 free a couple thousand paid if we assume call it two thousand paid it's about forty thousand dollars a month in revenue right now is that generally accurate we also serve enterprise customers which you don't take into account but that's roughly the uh revenue i guess let me ask you a different question doesn't it just hitting a million bucks an arr in terms of run rate by the end of this year feel like a big stretch goal or does it feel very doable i believe we'll get there in q1 or q2 20 20. okay fair enough and you think you'll be able to rely on enterprise deal to do that or no double down on making the funnel bigger and getting more long tail one of the biggest questions i don't have an answer for you it's tricky i i've only seen people get stuck when they try and do something in the middle but i've seen people again there's almost equal amounts of success but only if you pick one extreme yeah so we started by serving smbs because we know that's where the problem uh is bigger and there are a lot of a lot more smbs out there but we do get a lot of inbound uh enterprise customers uh so beginning to think that we should set up a proper sales team yeah what what does the i mean talking about sales team right what does your fully weighted cac look like today to get a new 20 a month customer do you know yeah it's about 200 okay so about a 10 month payback period that's not bad uh great and then again you're obviously driving growth you've raised capital i assume you're burning capital to continue driving growth is that accurate that's correct what's your risk appetite like are you comfortable can you sleep at night burn in 10 grand a month or are you burning more like 100 grand 150 grand a month more like the second one and i don't sleep that well [Laughter] so so how do you ma i mean how do you manage that are you managing for you know 18 months of runway in your bank or i mean how do you manage it 18 months is day one take six months into the process and you don't sleep well at night and that's the game so you got 12 12 months of runway today when do you start raising your next round [Music] all the time you raise money all the time if i meet someone at the bar i ask them if they are looking to invest by the way guys ori is in mountain view so speaking like a true mountain viewer and this is exactly the right answer right um orient all seriousness what do you think the next round of capital like what's the right next amount for you guys you think it's another three million or something more i think it's more like uh between seven to nine the a round we're a seed stage company i believe that the next one will be in a round that that's about seven to nine million dollars and do you anticipate that being like q2 q3 next year what's your time frame you think yeah i think it's uh we're aiming for q2 q2 okay so you just said you think you had a million bucks an are around that same time right so i mean you're you're going to have to if you want to only give up 30 of the company try and negotiate a kind of a 20 million pre-money evaluation or a 20x you feel like that's pretty doable definitely yeah very good all right let's wrap up with the famous five number one what's your favorite business book uh i don't uh have one favorite but if i need to choose i'm looking at my shelf here uh it's gonna be my stage venture deals is the best business book bradfills venture deals number two is there a ceo you're following or studying excuse me is there a ceo you're following or studying no no one's specific number three what's your favorite online tool for building your company i think that the best tool we utilize today is hot spots number four how many hours of sleep to get every night probably five but that's not the company it's my one half year old daughter all right so one kiddo and married yeah okay and how old are you i'm 34. last question what do you wish your 20 year old self knew i wish i didn't go to uh to the university i spent six years in in in the university and that's a waste of time i could fail three times at that time that would be a better lesson algopix.com helping 2 000 sellers right now at 20 bucks a month sell more effectively on things like uh amazon uh walmart you know outlets like these ebay they're doing about 40 000 a month right now on revenue up from nothing a year ago hoping to get a million dollar run rate by q1 or q2 of 2020 burning caught 100 to 150 000 a month right now uh but they've raised three million bucks so they have some runway team of 10 up there in mountain view 60 annual churn or about five percent monthly obviously focusing on driving that down as they look to scale paying 200 bucks a month to get a new 20 a month customer for a 10 month payback or thanks for taking us to the top thank you so much have a good one one more thing before you go we have a brand new show every thursday at 1 pm central it's called shark tank for sas we call it deal or bust one founder comes on three hungry buyers they try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards their expenses their revenue arpu cac ltv you name it they share it and the buyers try and make a deal live it is fun to watch every thursday 1 pm central additionally remember these recorded founder interviews go live we release them here on youtube every day at 2 p.m central to make sure you don't miss any of that make sure you click the subscribe button below here on youtube the big red button and then click the little bell notification to make sure you get notifications when we do go live i wouldn't want you to miss breaking news in the sas world whether it's an acquisition a big fundraise a big sale a big profitability statement or something else i don't want you to miss it additionally if you want to take this conversation deeper and further we have by far the largest private slack community for b2b sas founders you want to get in there we've probably talked about your tool if you're running a company or your firm if you're investing you can go in there and quickly search and see what people are saying sign up for that at nathan lacka dot com forward slash slack in the meantime i'm hanging out with you here on youtube i'll be in the comments for the next 30 minutes feel free to let me know what you thought about this episode if you enjoyed it click the thumbs up we get a lot of haters that are mad at how aggressive i am on these shows but i do it so that we can all learn we have to counter those people we got to push them away click the thumbs up below to counter them and know that i 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