How Consumer Fusion Bootstrapped to $2.9M in 2020 Revenue and 3,000 SMB Customers (Interview with CEO Brynn Gibbs)

Introduction and What Consumer Fusion Does

Nathan Latka

00:00Hey folks, my guest today is Brynn Gibbs. She's the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Consumer Fusion, founded in 2013 after she began helping close family friends with fake negative review removal for their businesses. Brynn, ready to take us to the top?

Brynn Gibbs

00:13>> Sure am. Thanks for having me today.

Nathan Latka

00:15Very frustrating. It's like that person that just hates you, so they're going to get back to you by posting like this fake bad online review. You help them get rid of that,

Brynn Gibbs

00:23>> So Consumer Fusion specialty niche in the reputation management space is identifying and helping remove inappropriate, illegitimate reviews and photos across different directory review sites and social media platforms.

Who Pays: SMBs and Franchise Brands

Nathan Latka

00:36I love this. Okay, so who is paying you? Is it companies paying you or is it individuals paying you?

Brynn Gibbs

00:41>> Good question. So our clientele is made up of SMBs and also we're heavy in the franchising space, so brands will hire us to represent their whole system as a whole.

Pricing: $299 Per Month Per Location

Nathan Latka

00:53I see. What are people paying on average to use this tech?

Brynn Gibbs

00:56>> You know, it depends because people have different review volume. You have some businesses who get 20 reviews a year and then you have some who get 20 a day. So it depends on the review volume, but on average, I would say our price point is like $299 a month per location for SMBs. And then brands, of course, the pricing is different because it's representing a whole brand.

Biggest Customer: $120,000 Per Year

Nathan Latka

01:16What's the largest customer pay you per year? Don't name them obviously, but the biggest contract.

Brynn Gibbs

01:21>> About 120,000 a year.

Nathan Latka

01:24Wow, okay. And so how many reviews and locations are you managing there?

Brynn Gibbs

01:28>> You know, they actually do not have a high volume of reviews, but for their industry, a negative review is so impactful that they have stats on how much money a negative review costs their system overall. And the lifespan of one negative review can impact their franchise location up to $300,000 So they definitely pay top dollar, but it is worth every penny for them.

Founding Story: From Family Friend to Business

Nathan Latka

01:55And put this on a timeline for me, when did launch the business?

Brynn Gibbs

01:58>> 2013.

Nathan Latka

02:00Okay. And how did you get those first, you know, ten, twenty customers?

Brynn Gibbs

02:04>> So I kind of fell into this on accident. I was helping a close family friend who's now a retired dentist. This was when Yelp and Google reviews kind of just became popular and he was attacked online by a vindictive ex employee. So, his new patient drop off numbers were down for several months and someone finally brought this to his attention and I offered to help him clean it up. And that turned into introductions to people in

02:31>> his local rotary group, was a plastic surgeon and attorney, who were dealing with similar situations, but with like a competitor. So from there, it just was kind of personal referrals, recommendations, and it was a month to month continuing service. So it just kind of snowballed and grew from there.

Nathan Latka

02:46How much revenue, consulting revenue did you do in 2013? Do you remember?

Brynn Gibbs

02:51>> Oh gosh. I mean, it was pretty small, but I want to say maybe around like, it was under $100,000 What's the tipping? I was also doing it myself too.

Nathan Latka

03:02Yeah. When did you realize, oh my gosh, instead of doing this as a service, I should hire a developer and start building technology here?

Bootstrapped Growth and Building the Platform

Brynn Gibbs

03:09>> Well, so for us, MRR is everything. And I was just seeing the long term picture and realizing, okay, if I want to continue growing the way that we are, I need to have a platform, A, for my backend, but also for my customers to use. And I always had the vision of enterprise level, like so how brands can manage multiple locations at once. So it was pretty quick at the starting point where I knew I needed

03:33>> software. And I haven't had any outside investments. So we're bootstrap and it's definitely been I've needed to be patient because it's evolved over time and the software has continued to improve year after year. But I would say within the first year and a half, knew that I needed to make moves quickly.

Customer Count: 3,000 SMBs and 40 Brands

Nathan Latka

03:53And how many customers today?

Brynn Gibbs

03:56>> So because we are in franchising and one brand could have hundreds of locations, I can't give you an exact amount, but we have several thousand users on the platform between SMB and franchising.

Nathan Latka

04:08How many unique

04:11brands are using a platform? I know a number of locations or stores, how many brands?

Brynn Gibbs

04:16>> So I would say there's about 40 brands and then the rest are SMBs.

Nathan Latka

04:21I see it. I see. Guess, can you name one of the brands and then name one of the SMBs so we can understand the difference?

Brynn Gibbs

04:29>> Yeah, so College Hunks Hauling Junk is one of our brands in the franchising space. Then an SMB is anything from a local attorney, dentist, plastic surgeon, auto repair. We're in all verticals.

Nathan Latka

04:41So how many SMBs? Know, College Hunks Hauling Junk is in your 40 brands. How many SMBs use it?

Brynn Gibbs

04:48>> About 3,000.

Nathan Latka

04:49Oh, wow. Okay. Got it. So you've got like 3,040 paying customers effectively.

04:54Can I take that 3,000 number times that $300 a month price point to back into your MRR, which would be like 1,000,000 a month?

Brynn Gibbs

05:00>> So, no, because they're not all at that price.

Nathan Latka

05:03Okay, so that's not an average?

Brynn Gibbs

05:05>> An average, yeah.

Nathan Latka

05:07Well, but if that's an average, that would be an average across what if it's not an average across 3,000?

Brynn Gibbs

05:12>> Well, that would be average for the SMBs, but not necessarily in the franchising space.

Nathan Latka

05:17Okay, but you just mentioned there's 3,000 SMBs that are paying, right?

Brynn Gibbs

05:21>> Yes.

Nathan Latka

05:21So can I take that 3,000 SMBs times the $299 a month price point? Is that the right average for those SMBs?

Brynn Gibbs

05:27>> You know what? No, it's not. If I'm being honest, it's not.

Nathan Latka

05:32What would you So what is MRR today? We can go backwards from there.

Brynn Gibbs

05:38>> I'd prefer not to get into those specifics if that's okay, but we're profitable and bootstrap.

Nathan Latka

05:43Okay. Can you give me a range if you're not comfortable sharing a specific, like under 1,000,000 revenue, more than a million revenue?

Brynn Gibbs

05:48>> Under 1,000,000 in revenue, yes.

Nathan Latka

05:50Okay, got it. Why is there such a big So I guess, are those 3,000 you're quoting, are those free users? Like that's a big gap between like 3,000 paying $300 a month versus not?

Brynn Gibbs

06:00>> So a lot of it is just sometimes they don't need our services to a certain extent and their price points can change and we'll do what we can to retain the client on a monthly basis. So it's just more so like, say they're part of a spam attack and we have to put a lot of effort into the account at one point, but then things kind of like tame down a little bit. It's just we see

06:26>> a lot of movement that way.

Nathan Latka

06:27So, but are all 3,000 like paying per month right now or some of them are not paying, but they're still using your free tools?

Brynn Gibbs

06:36>> So some of them are, we like to get our foot in the door, we'll do free pilots to help earn their future business. Some people do temporarily go on hold. I don't know the exact number right now for how many are not paying, but the majority are paying.

Nathan Latka

06:51Okay, got it. So if we take 3,000 like paying, right, and you're under a million revenue, let's just assume you're a million in run rate, that would be 3,000 $80,000 a month. They're paying on average something closer to like $25 a month.

Brynn Gibbs

07:03>> That in the franchising space, that is the

07:08>> right number per month, per location.

Nathan Latka

07:11$300 a month per location.

Brynn Gibbs

07:13>> No, no. You said 25 per location.

Nathan Latka

07:16Correct. So in the franchising space that you mentioned, so you used two words. You used the word brands, like College Hunks Hauling Junk, was 40 of those, and you used the word SMB, like dentists. And you said there are 3,000 dentists, like SMBs. What I'm doing is just, you said you're under a million revenue, I'm just taking 3,000 customers divided by a million dollar run rate, paying on average $25 per month. Would that be about accurate?

Brynn Gibbs

07:39>> I would have to look into that further for you. I don't have those numbers.

Nathan Latka

07:43Many Brynn, do you know how many just like paying customers you have? I mean, I assume that's when you track pretty darn close.

Brynn Gibbs

07:48>> Yeah. No, absolutely. It's just when you look at it from a brand level and an SMB, it's different.

Nathan Latka

07:56Okay, but there's only 40 brands and there's 3,000 SMBs, right? So the majority of revenue is coming from those 3,000 SMBs if all of those SMBs Absolutely. Are

Team of 22 and Outsourced Engineering in Belarus

Nathan Latka

08:05Got it. Okay, cool. Let's get more sort of the backstory here. So you've managed to bootstrap this, which is incredible. Tell me more about the team that you've built. How many folks full time?

Brynn Gibbs

08:12>> So 22 team members.

Nathan Latka

08:14Okay, 22 and how many engineers?

Brynn Gibbs

08:17>> Six. And so we outsource that. Our development team is over in Belarus and they have been with us since day one. They're fantastic.

Nathan Latka

08:23Wow, how did you find them? Are you using a firm like Coditas to find them or are you just, they're individual people you found?

Brynn Gibbs

08:28>> So the company is called Oxagile. We were connected through a colleague several years ago and they have just continued to grow with us.

Nathan Latka

08:37Interesting. So they're still like a dev shop?

Brynn Gibbs

08:39>> Yeah.

Nathan Latka

08:40And are you paying sort of, you know, most dev shops like Symform Coding has like $35 an hour for development talent. Is that sort of what you're paying?

Brynn Gibbs

08:46>> It's a little bit higher than that. Lately, there is just heavy need for developers. So we have seen the rates increase, but it is cheaper for us to have them overseas than domestic.

Nathan Latka

08:59And are all these 22 folks full time? Because what I'm trying into is, are any of them working for free? Because if you're under a million revenue paying 22 full time salaries would be a lot.

Brynn Gibbs

09:11>> So a lot of it is entry level positions, but everyone here is full time. Yes.

Nathan Latka

09:18I see. Got it. So 22 full time plus another six who are outsourced engineers, but they're on your full time.

Brynn Gibbs

09:25>> The engineers are all not necessarily full time. That's just depending on the workload and the projects that we're rolling out.

Nathan Latka

09:32I see, got it. So tell me more about like growth. I mean, signing up 3,000 dentists is not easy. How did you sign all these folks up? Well, what's that mean?

Brynn Gibbs

09:39>> Yeah, well, so they're not all dentists. We're in all, you know, verticals. So

Growth Through Agency and Affiliate Partnerships

Nathan Latka

09:44Signing up 3,000 SMBs is How do you do that?

Brynn Gibbs

09:48>> So, we used to attend a lot of conventions like veterinarian shows, practice surgeon shows, dental shows, but the biggest way the last few years has been through partnerships. So, our service is complimentary to digital marketing agencies, social media agencies. And so we will work with them and partner and represent either the brand or just kind of like an affiliate agreement with them. And that's been the quickest way for us to see this growth.

Nathan Latka

10:18So if there's a brand in Los Angeles who works with dentists as a marketing agency, you'll sell some marketing agency and the agency will sell directly through to dentists.

Brynn Gibbs

10:28>> Yeah.

Nathan Latka

10:29I see. So these 3,000 SMBs you quoted, you might not own the direct relationship to them. You might own the relationship just directly to the marketing agency that touches a 100 SMBs.

Brynn Gibbs

10:38>> Exactly. So sometimes we have the direct relationship, others we go through our partner. It just depends, I case by

Nathan Latka

10:45thought these numbers earlier when I was asking you, it's a little harder to talk about. It's because there's different kinds of relationships.

Brynn Gibbs

10:50>> Exactly. Sorry, I should have been more clear about that upfront.

Nathan Latka

10:53Because otherwise people are listening going, Brynn doesn't know our numbers. This makes total sense now. It's Some of them are direct relationships and a lot of times you're going through marketing agencies. So help me understand, that's an impressive model. How do you incentivize marketing agency to sell your product? Do you give them a kickback?

Brynn Gibbs

11:08>> So it depends and it is all case by case, but a lot of it is they see value in our service. So when we are cleaning up businesses online reputation, when we're improving their star rating, helping them generate more reviews, they rank higher in Google. So they see the value there for their clients. So sometimes they cover our expense on behalf of their clients. Other times they do mark it up. It's case by case with each

11:31>> one. We kind of customize our approach with all of our different partners. It just kind of depends on their wants and needs.

Nathan Latka

11:39But are you paying like, if they sign up customers, either their customers or them themselves are paying you some amount revenue every month to get those seats unlocked, are they paying you or are you paying them a kickback of 30% like per contract, like per per month, per, like, forever? Or is it something different?

Brynn Gibbs

11:57>> So it depends. Some is like a straight percentage based off of the dollar amount. Some are we just give them our tiered pricing, and then they mark it up accordingly. Our biggest partner pretty much just doubles what our cost is.

Nathan Latka

12:13I see.

Brynn Gibbs

12:14>> So, but again, it does differ.

Nathan Latka

12:16That makes perfect sense. Interesting. Okay, cool. That's a great way to boost up a business because all those, like, these would be like sales reps you'd usually have to hire and put on your profit loss full time. Now it's a marketing relationship with an affiliate.

Brynn Gibbs

12:26>> And not just that too, but the account management side too because we are not necessarily having to communicate directly to the client as well.

Nathan Latka

12:34Yeah, interesting. Okay, so I want you to grow fast. I want to see you guys kill it. When can you break a million dollar run rate, do you think? That'd be $80,000 a month in revenue.

Brynn Gibbs

12:43>> I mean, I think that next year is going to be very big for Consumer Fusion. We have some recent partnership that we're in like the final stages of rolling out. So I think by like mid next year.

Nathan Latka

12:56Mid next year, interesting. And what has your growth rate been over the past twelve months?

Brynn Gibbs

13:01>> So COVID did hit us pretty hard, but we had 200% growth the last three years.

Nathan Latka

13:07Okay. Like each year or over the

Brynn Gibbs

13:10>> three No, no, like the combined.

Nathan Latka

13:12It. So you went from like, I'm making this about $20 a month up to like $40 a month over the three years? Yeah. Something like that. Okay, interesting. And what would you have to grow over the next twelve months to break a million dollar run rate by the middle of next year?

Brynn Gibbs

13:26>> Can you say that again? Sorry.

Nathan Latka

13:28Yeah. So if you look at your revenue today, how much would you have to grow that to break a million dollar, like to break $80,000 a month within a year?

Revenue Confirmed Above $80,000 Per Month

Brynn Gibbs

13:34>> So we already do the $80,000 a month. I thought you were asking a million a month.

Nathan Latka

13:39Well, no, $80,000 a month would be a million dollar run rate, $80,000 times 12. So you already do more than $80,000 a month in revenue?

Brynn Gibbs

13:45>> Yes.

Nathan Latka

13:46Oh, great. Okay. Well, so you already passed a million dollar run rate then. What's your next big revenue goal?

Revenue Goals: $10M in Three Years

Brynn Gibbs

13:52>> Well, I mean, like in the next three years, I'd like to do $10,000,000 a year.

Nathan Latka

13:57Okay, got it. So that would be getting up to like $800,000 a month in revenue. And can you do that with your current product line or are you developing new products?

Brynn Gibbs

14:03>> So, we can. We just rolled out a new AI tool that's going to help us be more efficient in identifying the types of content that can quickly be removed. So it absolutely is doable.

Nathan Latka

14:17And if you're at like north, you know, $80,000 a month or north of that today in revenue, where were you exactly a year ago in the middle of COVID? Do you remember?

Brynn Gibbs

14:24>> We had like twenty five percent of our accounts go on hold. So COVID was definitely, it impacted us, but we were able to retain all of our employees and we actually started working for the twenty five percent of our accounts who needed to go on hold for free just because we wanted to help support them through those challenging times and be sure that they knew we were there for them during those hard times to where when

14:47>> they were able to operate again, they would quickly pick back up with us.

Nathan Latka

14:51Very well, and you've done that, you've earned their trust with them for a long time, that will drive up your LTV, which will be great. How do you think about the business today? Would you raise capital or you process of raising capital or you're staying bootstrapped?

Brynn Gibbs

15:01>> I'm gonna stay bootstrapped.

Nathan Latka

15:02Yeah, that's great. Now, if you get someone came to an offer to you $3,000,000 all cash up front to sell a business today, do you exit? No. Well, you said that quick. What's the number?

Brynn Gibbs

15:14>> It would have to be a lot more than that. I put a lot of sweat and tears into this business, but yeah. I mean, I think we're gonna hit just under 4,000,000, and so

Nathan Latka

15:26Brynn, you're so shy when you say these numbers, but I'm like trying to root you on. You should be so proud of these things. Should just

Brynn Gibbs

15:31>> I know, I just, I don't like to boast. I don't know. I also don't like people knowing all of our business.

Nathan Latka

15:36You're not bragging. You're not bragging. I'm pulling it out of you. So you think you'll break 4, I mean, you will break $4,000,000 in revenue this year?

Brynn Gibbs

15:43>> We'll be right under that. We're projecting that.

Nathan Latka

15:45I mean, Brynn, that's incredible. So like during COVID, like last year, I guess it was a tough time, but you were like under 3,000,000 that year, I guess?

Brynn Gibbs

15:52>> Yeah, 2.9.

Nathan Latka

15:53Yeah, but you retained everybody, which is incredible. This is incredible. You bootstrapped business doing 4,000,000 in a very committed review space. Round of applause, this is great.

Brynn Gibbs

16:02>> Thanks. Thank you. So cool.

Nathan Latka

16:05Okay, what's the next product you guys are working on?

AI Tool Built on Eight Years of Review Data

Brynn Gibbs

16:08>> So it's the AI tool that I mentioned. So we have years'worth of data. So every time we would work on disputing and getting a negative review removed, we logged the directory it was from, the reason why it was successfully removed. And after eight years, we finally had enough data compiled to where we could develop an AI tool, did heavy machine learning so we can plug in the content of a review through our backend. Like when

16:31>> we pull in our clients'new reviews, it'll automatically go through there and it will put out a rating of the percentage of the review likelihood that it's able to get removed. Anything above 50% has a good chance at being removed. So now, this will quickly identify which reviews our team needs to target versus ones that would be more of a waste of time.

Profitability and Reinvestment Strategy

Nathan Latka

16:53Interesting. I think it makes everything more efficient. Now, are you operating right now at breakeven or is the company, like, super profitable?

Brynn Gibbs

16:59>> Not super profitable, but we are profitable.

Nathan Latka

17:01Okay. Interesting.

Brynn Gibbs

17:01>> Because we have put a lot into our dev.

Nathan Latka

17:05You're reinvesting a ton.

Brynn Gibbs

17:07>> Yeah. And I think that's the reason for our long term success is back when we were very, very profitable, I wasn't out spending a lot of money. Was pushing it into the software development.

Equity: 23% Given to Executive Team

Nathan Latka

17:17Brynn, do you still own 100% of the business?

Brynn Gibbs

17:20>> So I gave my executive team some equity just because when we were first starting, I couldn't give them the higher salaries that they deserved. And I think it was a smart play because they are so vested. We're like a work family. We are all so tight. We've worked together for years. But they have pride of ownership and they want Consumer Fusion to grow as much as possible. Together, we are just super strong. So, I'm very happy that

17:45>> they have the ownership of Consumer Fusion as well.

Nathan Latka

17:49For other founders in your shoes, how much do you recommend they give to their executive team? Are they safe for their executive team?

Brynn Gibbs

17:55>> So I think it depends on, you know, each individual person and their role and what they can contribute. But I, let's see, I gave up 23%. Okay. Those four players.

Nathan Latka

18:06That's great. And you then kept, I guess, 77? Something like that?

Brynn Gibbs

18:09>> Mhmm.

Nathan Latka

18:10That's great. Are you the sole founder?

Brynn Gibbs

18:12>> Yes.

Nathan Latka

18:13This is such a rare story. Never hear about sole founders bootstrapping. This is great. Congratulations.

Female Founder Perspective and Closing Rapid Fire

Brynn Gibbs

18:17>> And I was a female under 30. I like there are not there's not much female representation in this industry. So anything I can do to help that, I'm all for it.

Nathan Latka

18:26You tell I want you on. And you know, it's so funny, not to get like too political, when I have females on the show, I never have females on because they're female. I have them on because they're great SaaS founders. And then they happen to also be female. But it's so funny because when I get someone like you on, it's like I have to pull so hard to get you to brag about your story with the

18:43metrics, just like we just went through. With the guys, come on, and they're like telling me numbers that are like exaggerated and way above what they should be, and I got to bring them back down to earth. You're like the opposite. Why is that?

Brynn Gibbs

18:54>> I'm not really sure. I'm a private person in general, and I just don't want it to come across as being braggiocious. I don't know.

Nathan Latka

19:02No, I don't think you're at any risk of that. I've really enjoyed this. Let's wrap up here with the famous vibe, Brynn. Number one, favorite book.

Brynn Gibbs

19:09>> Confidence Creator.

Nathan Latka

19:11Number two, is there a CEO you're following or studying?

Brynn Gibbs

19:14>> There's not, but I'm going put that on my to do list.

Nathan Latka

19:16No, no, no. That's okay. Number three, what's your favorite online tool for building the business?

Brynn Gibbs

19:21>> Oh gosh, I'm not sure.

Nathan Latka

19:24Number four, how many hours of sleep do you get every night?

Brynn Gibbs

19:26>> Five.

Nathan Latka

19:27Five, okay. And what's your situation? Married, single kiddos?

Brynn Gibbs

19:30>> Married, three kids.

Nathan Latka

19:31Oh my gosh, you are busy.

19:34Can I ask you how old you are?

Brynn Gibbs

19:36>> 35.

Nathan Latka

19:3735, last question. What's something you wish you knew when you were 20?

Brynn Gibbs

19:43>> That I would have a successful SaaS business. When I was 20, I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life.

Nathan Latka

19:49Guys, you have it. Heck of a story here, helping mitigate negative online reviews. Consumerfusion.com. They've grown nicely, $2,900,000 last year. They'll finish this year, you know, well above $4,000,000. She's growing and doing this all bootstrapped with her team of 22. She's really got everyone working the same drum, incentivize her whole executive team with some equity shirts, they can all grow together as they continue to serve their over 3,000 SMBs and brands they work with. Brynn, thank

20:14you so much for taking us to this op.

Brynn Gibbs

20:15>> Thank you. Appreciate your time.

Nathan Latka

20:18One more thing before you go. We have a brand new show every Thursday at 1PM Central. It's called Shark Tank for SaaS. We call it deal or bust. One founder comes on, three hungry buyers, they try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards, their expenses, their revenue, ARPU, CAC, LTV, you name it, they share it and the buyers try and make a deal alive. It is fun to watch every Thursday one

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