How Coro Reached 13,500 Customers and a $600M Valuation in Cybersecurity for the Mid-Market (Interview with Co-Founder Dror Liwer)

Host intro and company snapshot

Nathan Latka

00:00Coro is all in one cybersecurity folks. They help you get up to speed quickly, serving over 13,500 mid market customers. They just broke, $18,000,000 in AR as of the end of twenty twenty two. Hoping to 300% grow that 300% this year, which means they would need to add about, was that about $36,000,000 of new AR. He says they're on track to do that. It just raised another, series C plus, we'll call it. $75,000,000 at around a

00:24600,000,000 valuation. His team is growing. A lot of talent. 297 folks with concentration up there in Chicago as they look to continue to scale across their three key channels. Hey, folks. My guest today is Dror Liwer. He is a serial entrepreneur and investor who took two companies public, sold three, and is now building the world's fastest growing cybersecurity company at coro.net. It ends up enterprise grade cybersecurity for the mid-market. Dror, are you ready to take us

00:47to the top?

Did Coro beat its $18M ARR target for 2022?

Dror Liwer

00:49>> Absolutely, Nathan.

Nathan Latka

00:50All right. So before we get into the sort of customer profile, the product updates over the last year, you did come on the show about a year ago and I remember you said, quote, Nathan, we're targeting an 18,000,000 run rate target by the end of twenty twenty two. So my first question is, did you beat your goal?

Dror Liwer

01:04>> We did beat our goal.

Nathan Latka

01:06King Grouchy. Now tell us how you did it. What are your customers using you for and how are you growing?

Dror Liwer

01:12>> So,

Who Coro serves: the neglected mid-market

Dror Liwer

01:16>> first of all, our customers are the neglected people in the world of cybersecurity. So the entire cybersecurity industry is focused either on the very rich, the enterprise Fortune 500, or the consumer market. Nobody's focused on the economic backbone of the American economy, the mid market companies that are actually 65% of the GDP. We focus on these guys and we provide them with enterprise grade security in a way that they can actually implement and protect themselves. So

01:56>> we've solved the four biggest problems that they've had and our growth, which has been 300% year over year for the past four years straight, with this year expected to be yet another 300% growth, has shown

Will Coro break $40M ARR by December 2023?

Nathan Latka

02:14Do you think you'll break a 40,000,000 run rate by December?

Dror Liwer

02:20>> Oh, yeah.

Nathan Latka

02:22Yeah. Mean, that would right. That would be 300% you're 18,000,000 2022, three so 100% year over year growth would be somewhere above forty, forty five million.

Dror Liwer

02:29>> Yeah. So our expectation is to beat that number. And and the main reason is we are in this really unusual perfect storm where on the one hand side, the attackers are changing course and now attacking the mid market companies and the small businesses as well, simply because, a, they can and, b, they're vulnerable, and it's much harder to go after the enterprise which has, you know, much larger budgets, much more experienced cybersecurity teams and is a

03:06>> lot better protected. So I always equate this to if you're a burglar and you're walking down the street and there are two equal houses, but one has two Dobermans, a barbed wire fence, cameras, and an alarm system and and bars on the windows, and one has the window open, where would you go? And that's really what our attackers are doing. The bad guys are going after the people that it's easiest to go and grab. So granted

03:33>> their ROI is lower on a per attack basis, but they have a lot more of these attacks that they can execute. And now they've automated everything and with all of the automated tools that are out there, it's much easier for them to execute those attacks. And they're going after these mid market and smaller organizations. And Dror, you're very

Nathan Latka

03:53effective at talking to those users because you told me last year you'd already signed up 4,500 of them, these mid market folks, to use your tool. They were happy they're using it. Where are you today? How many paying customers?

Dror Liwer

04:05>> So it's triple that.

Nathan Latka

04:08Oh, wow. Okay. So you're about like 13,500 paying customers.

04:12Oh, what's going on there, YouTube? Good to see you guys. Now imagine this. You love watching these interviews with SASE founders, but imagine if we took all of the valuation data out from over 2,807 interviews I've done manually. Saves you a lot of time. Well, we've done this. We've built it into the beautiful interface inside of Founderpath. Check this out. I'll show you how you can access this in a second, but you log in, you connect

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Three go-to-market channels: outbound, channel, and tech partnerships

Nathan Latka

06:37Wow. What drove most of that growth? Was it an outbound motion, inbound motion? What growth levers did you pull?

Dror Liwer

06:43>> So we actually have three different motions in parallel that we're going to market with. One is a direct outbound. We have a team in Chicago, very diligent, that is going out and engaging with potential customers and bringing them on board.

Nathan Latka

07:01How many on that team?

Dror Liwer

07:05>> A a total of about a 100.

Nathan Latka

07:07Wow. A 100 on the outbound team. Okay.

Dror Liwer

07:09>> Yeah. And then maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit. It's more like 80 because we I'm I'm mixing up some of the direct with the with the channel. Second one is, of course, the channel team. Yep. So we are selling through very, very good partnerships that we have with MSPs, with MSSPs, with VARs, with master agents. And they're also using us to open new doors where historically they couldn't sell cyber security into the market that we're selling

07:42>> because the offerings were too expensive and too complex and too labor intensive. And now that we've removed these three barriers, they are able to go to market and offer a cybersecurity solution to their mid market customers as well. And the third is through what we call technology partnerships. We have a team that focuses on tech partners where basically we become the cybersecurity component of what they sell.

Comply Auto technology partnership explained

Nathan Latka

08:11Name one.

Dror Liwer

08:13>> So an example is a company called Comply Auto. They provide compliance software to the automotive industry. So now they also offer security compliance, and that's really us. We are the underlying it's not white labeled. It's co branded, call it.

Nathan Latka

08:32So So is Comply Auto bringing you the customers? Are you billing Comply Auto's customer directly?

Dror Liwer

08:38>> No. No. Comply Auto owns the relationship. The customer knows that they're using a Coro product. We're not hiding that, but it's it's a it's a partnership. The ownership of the account, the ownership of the customer is Comply Auto. We're just providing that cybersecurity engine to make sure that those automotive customers are protected and are compliant with, in this case, the GLPA safeguard rules that they're now supposed to comply with.

Nathan Latka

09:10Does Compliant Auto say, hey, Dror, we want a thousand seats here because that's what we think we can sell. You say here's a bulk discount, and then they mark it up, whatever, 50% and then sell it to the end user? What's the revenue relationship there? What's the partnership agreement like?

Dror Liwer

09:23>> We don't disclose revenue relationships in public, but basically, Complia Auto sells a package to their customer. We have a relationship with Complia Auto where they get our product for a fixed fee per seat, and how they mark it up or how they sell it to their customers is their business.

Nathan Latka

09:40So the reason I'm asking is is what prevents Complia Auto from undercutting a customer that's going to sign up directly on coro.net? They might see cheaper pricing on Complia Auto.

Dror Liwer

09:51>> We're not worried about that. We're

09:55>> not competing with our partners in any way. We actually prefer that our partners win because from our perspective, you know, is a much a very strong sales multiplier when you're using partners. So we're not trying to compete with them on those customers. If the customer prefers to buy from Comply Auto, more power to them, more power to Comply Auto. We're very happy about that because their sales forces

Nathan Latka

10:23If Comply Auto sells it though, like, let's say your ACV, you told me last year it was $2,700, right? So your website lists $2,700, but if Comply Auto lists the exact same thing at a thousand dollars for a year, basically your partners would effectively cannibalize your own direct revenue. You're saying you're okay with that?

Dror Liwer

10:38>> A 100%.

Nathan Latka

10:40Okay, cool. And then how is that different from the VAR agreements or the channel the channel team agreements? When you sign up a new channel partner, what is that relationship like?

Dror Liwer

10:49>> So very similar, we sell to our partners for a discount of the MSRP, and they mark it up and they add on top of it also their services. So for example, an MSP doesn't just sell product, they sell a service. They help manage the platform on behalf on behalf of their customers. So from their perspective, their offering now is a lot more complete and what we can give the MSP beyond that margin or that, you know,

11:19>> that discount that they can the haircut that they can get from it, they're actually getting a lot more from it because they are getting a new market open to them because now they can offer cybersecurity at a very reasonable cost to a customer, to whom they could have probably offered only antivirus in the past because the price points are just so difficult. And beyond the price point, maintaining a security stack is a very expensive thing from

11:49>> an HR perspective. And what we offer that customer, that MSP, that partner, is the ability to offer a stack that manages pretty much itself because of the engines that we have. So there's a lot less work that a human needs to be doing. So we've removed more than 95% of the human element through AI, through automation, through so the same team can now support a whole lot more customers from an MSP's perspective so that I can

12:20>> go out and sell it at a very reasonable price.

Nathan Latka

12:22You're helping MSPs expand their margin.

Dror Liwer

12:26>> Absolutely. And expand their foothold within their existing customers. And, you know, in the MSP world, it's all about stickiness.

Nathan Latka

12:33Wallet share.

Dror Liwer

12:35>> Yeah.

Nathan Latka

12:36Yep. That makes tons of sense. Have there been any drastic change? You told me last year your average customer is paying about $230 a month. Has that changed drastically, either up or down, or is it about the same?

Dror Liwer

12:48>> Yeah. It it's changed significantly. So first of all,

12:53>> with economics being what they are, we've raised our prices a little bit. So last time we spoke, our prices were at about I think they were about $6 per user. Now they're at about $8.99 per user. So that increased. But also, the size of our customers has grown significantly. So now we're seeing customers that are more in the 700 seat range, whereas when we last spoke, the range was more about a 150 to a 100 maybe.

Nathan Latka

13:26Yep. Yep. Okay. So I guess what does that mean in terms of the average annual contract value? Like, maybe it's now instead of 3,000, it's looking more like 4 or 5,000 on average per team?

Dror Liwer

13:37>> It's actually more like 9,500.

Nathan Latka

13:419,500, okay, per team, per year, interesting. Do you have any million dollar accounts yet?

Dror Liwer

13:47>> Million dollar accounts? If you look at our partners like MSPs or master agents, then they would be considered

Nathan Latka

13:56Why? Okay.

Dror Liwer

13:57>> Seven digits because they come with a bunch of seats, you know, they they come with, you know, three, four thousand seats, 10,000 seats sometimes. So those are big accounts. But as an individual account, the answer is no because our focus is mid market. And the mid market, the way we define it, is up to 5,000 seats. So if you do the math at $8 per user per month at 5,000, you'll never get to a million.

Nathan Latka

14:26Yeah. But we're not even able You should have $500,000 accounts here in the next year if you don't already.

Dror Liwer

14:32>> Yeah. So there are some accounts that are beginning to get to that point.

Nathan Latka

14:35Yeah. That makes sense. Now help me understand. My math is wrong here. If I take 13,500 customers at an average 9,500 per year, that puts you at, like, a $128,000,000 in revenue. So that 9,500, I'm guessing that's not the average. Right? Your average is lower than Yeah.

Dror Liwer

14:50>> Absolutely. There there's a range. The the average is so we're tracking, like like every SASE company, we're tracking a rolling average of where the accounts are going. So, the average, it has been moving up over time as the customer size has been growing. So if if I'm looking at the last month, that's the average. I'm If looking at the average across the year, it's a little bit lower.

MRR and quarterly growth targets

Nathan Latka

15:19I see. You're looking at average new sign ups last month that are signing 9,500 annual contracts.

Dror Liwer

15:25>> Yeah.

Nathan Latka

15:26Yeah, I see. I see. Now help us understand growth because it's obviously important, and it's really hard to grow right now. So I wanna give you a lot of credit where you're growing. If you finish twenty twenty two at your target of that $18,000,000 run rate, now we're what, six, seven months into 2023, what is monthly recurring revenue today?

Dror Liwer

15:42>> So we don't we don't disclose that publicly, but let's let's say that we are on target to tripling our revenue this year. We beat our number in q one. Q two is shaping up to be so so we obviously have a plan exactly of what needs to happen every quarter. So in q one, we beat our number by about 8%, which was a great thing. Mhmm. And then this quarter, it looks like we're gonna hit our

16:07>> number again. In the next 0.5, there's no reason to believe we're not gonna meet what we expect to hit.

Nathan Latka

16:17Just to understand your quarterly targets, if you finished last year at 18,000,000 and you wanna grow 300 percent on top of that, that would mean you'd add 36,000,000 of net new ARR this year. If you divide that by four to get down to the quarterly numbers, you can sorta get to, I I imagine, what your quarterly targets might look like. I guess, what outside of the three revenue channels or the three channels that you just described,

16:41I mean, why so aggressive? I I mean, I know you raised an 80,000,000 series c, and you told us that was around a 500,000,000 valuation last year. But are you getting just tons of pressure from the board to grow at all costs?

Dror Liwer

16:51>> Actually, there's news on that front as well. We raised an additional 75 as a c two.

$75M Series C extension and $600M valuation

Nathan Latka

16:56Okay.

Dror Liwer

16:56>> So the total raise was a 150 in April.

Nathan Latka

17:01Of this year?

Dror Liwer

17:03>> Yes. So we've we've completed or we've added, like, it a c two, whatever you wanna call it a c, and another 75. So a total of a 155 in the last twelve months.

Nathan Latka

17:15Did you did you give the new investors at 75,000,000, same value the 500,000,000 valuation, the same valuation of the earlier folks?

Dror Liwer

17:20>> Oh, there was a little bit of yeah. It was a so so we're very, fortunate because our valuation has been growing, whereas I'm sure you know that a lot of the valuations in the market have been going the wrong direction, mainly because a lot of the valuations in, let's say, 2020 or 2019 were a little overpriced. So our valuation has been growing. So

17:46>> the the last valuation was about 20% higher than on a year ago that you knew about the 80,000,000.

Nathan Latka

17:54So call call it 600,000,000 for the second 75,000,000 round, something like that.

Dror Liwer

17:58>> Very, very close to that.

Nathan Latka

17:59Yes. Was that primary money or secondary?

Dror Liwer

18:03>> Primary.

Nathan Latka

18:04Okay, so it's on the balance sheet for operations.

Dror Liwer

18:07>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's

Nathan Latka

18:10Yeah, yeah, okay, that makes sense. And then, I mean, the reason I was going as valuation trainers, there's a lot of founders at your same stage that I talked to that say, man, I wish I didn't raise at such a high valuation last year because now option grants are underwater. With 12,000,000 in ARR when you did your series C, first 80,000,000 out of 500 post, that was a 41 x multiple. Do you regret raising at such

18:29an aggressive many people have gone aggressive multiple today?

Dror Liwer

18:33>> No, because we were able to raise again at a very aggressive multiple this year. And as long look,

18:43>> we are showing phenomenal growth, both ARR, customer base, in every aspect of

Valuation multiple compression and investor confidence

Dror Liwer

18:52>> every KPI that we're measuring, we're showing phenomenal results. So from an investor perspective, you know, when you look at a company and you analyze a company and having been an investor, having been on the, you know, the dark side of the VC world, I can tell you, you look at you look at KPIs and and that's how you make a decision. So when a company, despite the economic downturn that we're experiencing out there, despite everything that

19:20>> is going on in the market, is able to show that kind of aggressive growth. You understand that there is something unique about Coro and and that's really what's happening.

Nathan Latka

19:31But your valuation multiple compressed. You didn't raise a second 75,000,000 out of 41 multiple. It was like a 25x ish multiple based off my math.

Dror Liwer

19:41>> Yes, but it's still an amazing multiple considering that the numbers you're worrying in the market today.

Nathan Latka

19:47Do you worry? I know, I agree. And that multiple is way higher than others at your stage that I'm seeing. But I don't know that which, you could brag about, but I don't know if that's a good thing to brag about. Mean, do you worry about growing into that valuation?

Dror Liwer

19:59>> We don't think of it that way at all. We think that valuation was very fair because valuation represents the potential moving forward. And as we've shown that we've grown in the year that has passed since the previous the previous fundraise, we've shown that we've again tripled our growth. And this year, we're expecting to do the same. I think that from an investor perspective, when you look at those kinds of KPIs, you're looking at the potential, the

20:30>> growth moving forward. And being that we were able to hit our quarterly commitments for forty eight

20:39>> forty eight Months. For for twelve, I'm sorry. For for twelve quarters forty eight months, I meant. Yeah. For twelve quarters straight, it it gives a lot of confidence to an investor to come in and say, you know what? These guys know what they're doing. Yeah. And they're executing. It's not a dream anymore. It's execution, and this is what the machine is all about right now.

Nathan Latka

21:02And those of you that missed the first interview with Dror a year ago, company launched in 2014, raised a 1.5 seed, raised 5.5 series A in 2016, and another 20,000,000 series B in 2018. So it's not like that this wasn't a two year overnight success thing. He's been at it. He's been consistent for almost ten years pranking along, which is great. Dror, help me understand the the team size today. How many full time all in?

Team size: 290 employees and Chicago office

Dror Liwer

21:24>> Just under 300. I think we're 290. So we're about to hit the 300 number.

Nathan Latka

21:31How are you thinking about I mean, I imagine you raised 150,000,000 over the past twelve months. I imagine well, I'm guessing more than 100,000,000 is still in the bank. How are you thinking about using that cash in in a world where folks are cash poor sometimes? Can you go buy at competitors at cheap discounts?

Dror Liwer

21:48>> So that's a great point, Nathan. So so we're looking at the money being used in three different ways.

Capital allocation: R and D, go-to-market, and acquisitions

Dror Liwer

21:57>> One, of course, increasing our r and d expenditure and making sure that we continuously invest in the product. Two, investing in the go to market. So granted, I'm sure, you know, all of your listeners understand this kind of aggressive growth costs money, and being that we're growing from a larger base, the the the 300% growth is requires a lot of capital. And three, you're absolutely right. We're definitely looking into potential acquisitions to increase our portfolio through

Net dollar retention at 106%

Dror Liwer

22:36>> acquisitions, so both organic and inorganic.

Nathan Latka

22:39That makes sense. Now, do you still have over a 100% net dollar retention?

Dror Liwer

22:45>> Yes. Okay. We're at about 106.

Nathan Latka

22:48Okay. Yeah. It was 105 a year ago, so that's good you've able to hold that, which is nice. And then what are you willing to pay today to get a new customer that's paying you 10,000 a year?

CAC payback of 8 months and LTV discussion

Dror Liwer

22:57>> So normally our cost of acquisition is about eight months, which is in line with what the SASE industry is all about.

Nathan Latka

23:07So you'll spend 7,000, 8,000 dollars to get a $10,000 $12,000 a year customer?

Dror Liwer

23:12>> Yes. Our lifetime value though is a lot more than that because normally so so the cohort that signed up with us in 2019 is still with us today. So, so far we're running a four year, a four year lifespan and, hopefully it's going to be even longer.

Nathan Latka

23:33So do you assume, and this is all sort of guessing, but do you imply a pro form a life lifetime value of something like $50,000 $60,000 on these accounts?

Dror Liwer

23:42>> At least 40,000 but most probably on the higher 40s.

Nathan Latka

23:48Yep, yep, yep, yep. Very cool. What else? What else do you wish people like me asked you about but you never get a chance to talk about?

Dror Liwer

23:56>> You always ask all the right questions, Nathan.

Nathan Latka

24:00Alright. It's

Dror Liwer

24:01>> been an incredible year for us and I'm extremely proud of the team. We've we've grown the team tremendously.

24:12>> And both we've we have a massive office in Chicago right now. This is where our sales center is. So we have, well over 200 people just there. And, it's an amazing team. I mean, we just moved to a new office. We took over an entire floor in a building. It's it's really great as a founder to see that kind of development. And when they show up, you know, sometimes it's kind of weird because as as a

24:41>> founder, you show up and there's a whole bunch of new faces.

24:47>> It's heartwarming, but also very strange not to know everybody.

Nathan Latka

24:52So if we want to host a big SASE Open in Chicago and we're going bring 300 founders with more than, you know, 5,000,000 ARR in altogether, we can use your place to host it?

Dror Liwer

25:01>> For a small fee for sure.

Famous Five: books, CEOs, tools, and personal life

Nathan Latka

25:03There's the sales guy. Alright, Dror, let's start here with the famous five. Number one, your favorite book.

Dror Liwer

25:12>> Oh, what is my favorite book now? I I have to say it's still it's still the tipping point.

25:20>> Tipping point.

Nathan Latka

25:21Number two, is there a CEO you're following or studying?

Dror Liwer

25:25>> Still, Elon Musk. Despite all the controversy, I think the man is a genius and despite every strange aspects of both his behaviors and some of his decisions, I still think the man is somebody to be reckoned with.

Nathan Latka

25:40Number three, what's your favorite online tool for building Coro?

Dror Liwer

25:47>> Oh, wow. There are so many. We're users of Monday these days, and it really helps keep everybody together, especially when we're across geographies, across time zones.

Nathan Latka

25:57And number five, how many hours of sleep are you getting?

Dror Liwer

26:01>> On average, four a night.

Nathan Latka

26:03Dror, come on, that's not healthy.

Dror Liwer

26:08>> Naturally, I'm an insomniac, so it's not just because of Coro, it's because I am an insomniac.

Nathan Latka

26:13That's fair. That's fair. Okay. And situation, married single kiddos?

Dror Liwer

26:18>> Oh, yeah. I'm very much married, have been married for the same with the same wonderful, wonderful woman since 1990.

Nathan Latka

26:30Wow, and two kids, right?

Dror Liwer

26:32>> And two kids, you're absolutely right.

Nathan Latka

26:34And I think you had a birthday, you're 54 now?

Dror Liwer

26:38>> I am actually turning 55 next month.

Nathan Latka

26:41Oh, very good. Okay. So I must have caught you on the back end that you're 53. So okay. So 54 now, 55 coming up. Happy early birthday. And last thing, something you wish you knew when you were 20.

Dror Liwer

26:52>> Invest early.

26:55>> Think I said that last time. Had I known what I know today about investing and creating wealth, I would have would have done it.

Nathan Latka

27:04Coro is all in one cyber security folks that help you get up to speed quickly, serving over 13,500 mid market customers. They just broke, $18,000,000 in AR as of the end of twenty twenty two. Hoping to 300% grow that 300% this year, which means they would need to add about, was that about $36,000,000 of new AR. He says they're on track to do that. It just raised another, series c plus, we'll call it, $75,000,000 at around

27:28a 600,000,000 valuation. His team is growing. A lot of talent. 297 folks with concentration up there in Chicago as they look to continue to scale across their three key channels. Dror, thanks for taking us to the top.

Dror Liwer

27:40>> Thank you very much, Nathan. Always a pleasure to be with you, speaking with you.

Nathan Latka

27:44One more thing before you go. We have a brand new show every Thursday at 1PM Central. It's called Shark Tank for SASE. We call it deal or bust. One founder comes on three hungry buyers. They try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards, their expenses, their revenue, ARPU CAC, LTV, you name it, they share it and the buyers try and make a deal alive. It is fun to watch every Thursday one

28:09p. M. Central. Additionally, remember these recorded founder interviews go live. We release them here on YouTube every day at two p. M. Central. Make sure you don't miss any of that, make sure you click the subscribe button below here on YouTube, the big red button and then click the little bell notification to make sure you get notifications when we do go live. I wouldn't want you to miss breaking news in the SASE world, whether it's an

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28:52are saying. Sign up for that at nathanlatka.com slack. In the meantime, I'm hanging out with you here on YouTube. I'll be in the comments for the next thirty minutes. Feel free to let me know what you thought about this episode and if you enjoyed it, click the thumbs up. We get a lot of haters that are mad at how aggressive I am on these shows, but I do it so that we can all learn. We have

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29:19See you.