How Mortgage Coach CEO Dave Savage grew Mortgage Coach to $7.2M revenue and 10K customers in 2019.

my guest today is dave savage he is the founder and creator of a company called mortgage coach more specifically he's a mobile tech pioneer and a mortgage industry agent of change renowned speaker and keynote at mastermind events sales rallies and strategic industry events he's committed to educating and preparing lenders and loan officers for the digital mortgage revolution today's interviewed more than a thousand industry leaders and the mortgage coach channel has been described as the most valuable youtube channel for mortgage professionals dave you're ready to take us to the top yeah let's do it man all right very good so youtube's your main channel huh how many views will upload get once you put it up uh i mean it's a b to b so i mean on average probably 500 views you know our our biggest views are like 10 000 ish you know when i have big guests that almost every video gets at least 500 views so you're using this to grow the software side of your business which i believe is mortgage coach.com is that right yeah well i mean i would say when i create content it's two-fold it's one to add members we're sas technology companies so we always want to add members but we want to get more adoption of our technology so a lot of the interviews are with top producer and loan officers that use our tech and we're trying to get them to inspire other loan officers to use our tech so help me understand your model on on mortgage coach is it a sas platform yeah it's a sas technology platform okay and on average what are users paying per month to use it 90 a month per per user we've got over ten thousand users that's great so ninety thousand a month and i mean can i take ten thousand times ninety and that obviously gives us your revenue no because only about two thousand of the users are individual loan officers at ps90 and then um the other 85 of our network or corporate deals and um let's just say there's a 20 ish you know those are those are based off of the size of the relationship okay if i take let's just assume the minimum if i take 2 000 which you just said are paying 90 bucks a month that puts out about 180 grand a month in sas revenue is that accurate that is accurate okay and then help me understand growth on that cohort so a year ago how much were you doing per month would you say i mean our our individual user network has been pretty pretty flat i mean we we don't put a lot of resources behind that we're a enterprise first sas company so we're we really look at those as like leads and you know maybe that maybe that side of our business has grown ten finish percent okay over a year well how many enterprise platforms and yeah you're more i sus you're more enterprise totally understand maybe let's focus there instead so you said eight thousand of the ten thousand are enterprise deals yeah okay and what does that mean what do you mean what does that mean when an enterprise uses you what does that mean are they using you yeah the mortgage company would buy us and roll it out to their loan officers so the loan officers sales people for the mortgage company would use our platform company would pay us and then they'll make it available to their loan officers and is that still those 8 000 mortgage companies paying you on average 90 bucks a month or they pay you more no no it's less it's less why does the mortgage company pay more than the individual mortgage broker well they don't they pay the the individual loan officer you know it's like one loan officer signing up and the enterprise would pay less i mean there's they're buying 50 100 our biggest enterprise client has a thousand you know licenses so they they get a volume discount got it so all in all you have about 10 000 paid seats whether it's the loan officer paying for one seat directly at 90 bucks or a bulk deal with someone paying for a thousand seats correct okay fair enough that makes a lot of sense and then instead of trying to get the different models on those different cohorts when you look at just a blended average per seat cost it costs your entire user base what would that come out to it's not 90. it's less than that yeah yeah i'd say 60-ish 60-ish okay got it so that would put you at 600 grand a month in revenue is that right yeah okay and that and that growth rate year over year are you kind of 10 20 double in year every year where would you put it out well last year we were a little over 10 a year before we were 30 um our goal is 30 year-over-year growth okay that's great now have you bootstrapped the company are raised yeah i total bootstrap founder raise i love started it many years ago i love i love the fact that you've been able to get to that scale bootstrap is actually i mean that's extremely impressive so if you're growing ten percent year over year that means you're doing what about 550 000 a month a year ago 600 000 a month no i mean it's it's you know i would say coming out of the meltdown you know 2008 we really you know shrunk a lot and then we have um you know we've had years where we've grown up to 30 and here's where we've you know grown 10 ish what i'm trying to get to is the past 12 months you said you grow 10 percent is that right yeah i gotcha is that right 10 yeah okay so if you're at 600 grand a month today 10 growth i mean you came up from 550 grand a month about 12 months ago that would be 10 correct okay just want to make sure there um what's driving most the growth new customer additions or driving more revenue inside of mortgage brokerages by getting them to add more seats a little bit of both i mean i would say last year it all came from growing existing accounts adding members with existing clients that would either acquire another company and you know turn on more users um and then you know we add probably um you know 20 new logos 30 new logos a year that's new lenders to the network yep and they individual lenders or brokerages that service a lot of lenders indiv lenders individual mortgage bankers okay so you have 10 000 total right now and you're adding 20 million that's users that's users no the 20 is like a brand like a got it you know the name of the company there could be 50 loan officers there could be you know hundreds of loan officers got it how many folks are on your team building this uh we've got about 30 employees okay 30 folks and uh i assume break even because you've your you're bootstrapped right well we're profitable okay so profitable and what what why are people signing up for this so i assume they get pitched all the time on tools like this what's your unique mousetrap why do they love you well it's it's conversion lead conversion i mean we are i don't know if you're familiar with the the book called the challenger sale but we are a sales effectiveness platform so we're not a crm we integrate with all the technology of the mortgage space and we and they buy us to get improved conversion you know we deliver a better conversation and you know the actual thing that we do is help a loan officer deliver mortgage options in a way that's a competitive advantage most loan officers quote rates here's your monthly payment here's your closing costs with mortgage coach it's crafts to charts it's an omni channel platform it's got video streamed into it so it's a it's a sales effectiveness uh technology platform okay and do you have a sense i mean how effect i mean effectiveness can be measured on how sticky it is right how addicted are your users which can be a measured by churn so over the past 12 months do you know where your churn rate has been yeah we i mean anybody that creates more than 10 total cost analysis never leaves so any churn that we do have it's from someone never using it you know signing up gym membership never show up but once someone uses the product we never lose them and we've got a 90 plus percent retention rate okay so less than 10 of you know churn revenue annually correct and expansion does the expansion on that same cohort and more than make up for the lost 10 percent yeah that's so that's how we're growing well you can grow by adding new customers and have no expansion fair enough fair enough right but we're growing through a combination of new brands and growing existing clients yeah so just so i make sure because i don't want to misrepresent you and your success you've had the customer base that signed up exactly a year ago you'll lose over you know they were new you know today 12 months later you'll lose 10 percent of their revenue but that same cohort you got other customers in that same court to upgrade their accounts by more than 10 percent so your net revenue retention is above 100 is that right yes okay what's going through your head you're thinking well i've just tried you said that i just wasn't completely following you on that i mean our net retention numbers are less than is less than ten percent well that doesn't make any sense if your net retention is less than ten percent that means you're churning almost your entire customer base every year oh well no well i'm saying we're losing 10 we're maintaining 90 retention yeah so what i'm asking is when you're that you know let's say 10 customers signed up a year ago paying you 100 grand per year you lose ten percent of that revenue so now it's only nine yeah i'll lose one correct i'll lose one of those well it's not about it's not about it's not about dave the logo count it's about the revenue the...