How PAR Technology Went From Under $10M ARR to Landing a $23M ARR Deal With One Customer (Interview with CEO Savneet Singh)

Event Context and Introduction

Nathan Latka

00:00Quick context. This was recorded March twenty eighth and twenty ninth. So a couple weeks ago at my live event, saasopen.com. We had a thousand software CEOs there. If you missed it, we hope to see at the next one, September fifth and sixth in New York City, saasopen.com. But for now, let's jump into the recording.

Savneet Singh

00:18>> We have less than $10,000,000 in the balance sheet, and we're a public company.

Nathan Latka

00:21He's effectively bought for $400,000,000 of cash and stock. Two companies totaling $80,000,000 of top line revenue.

Savneet Singh

00:28>> Three months ago, we won a deal that was $23,000,000 of ARR with one customer.

Most-Penetrated Restaurants: Burger King, Dairy Queen, Arby's

Nathan Latka

00:35Which restaurant are you guys most penetrated in right now in terms of the checkout terminal?

Savneet Singh

00:41>> Most penetrated?

00:44>> Gosh, I'd the our largest deal is Burger King, but we're just starting to roll them out. So you'll probably see us in Dairy Queen, Arby's, Five Guys, Sweetgreen, so all those

Nathan Latka

00:52So you guys can see the logo here. You see it up here. When you guys check out on the station that is thing, you'll that that hardware is par. And so describe how that legacy business, the audience can see sort of how this flat line and then what you did when you came in.

Company History: From Defense Contractor to Restaurant Tech

Savneet Singh

01:03>> So we we were actually founded fifty six years ago. So well before any of the management team was born. And we were originally a defense contractor. We sold IT services at the Department of Defense. Our company was called Pattern Analysis Recognition. We were Palantir before Palantir, so we're a little bit ahead of our time. Fast forward, in 1978 our founders invented the point of sale terminal, that's the device that you see the McDonald's cashier banging on.

01:27>> In 1982, we went public off the success of McDonald's actually saying, we're gonna use that device across all our stores. We had a bunch of success, call it in the eighties. In the next twenty five, thirty years, we sort of had a long slow decline. And we got, it's primarily because we got stuck as a hardware and services company. So you'd buy our hardware and services and you'd buy the software from Oracle or somebody else. And

01:46>> then in 2014, we sort of bought a small software company. 2018, I came in and started running the company on this idea that the restaurant was going to the cloud. And I thought the point of sales was gonna be the fulcrum product. And a lot of times I sort of think about your careers are oftentimes built off of picking the right end market. You can see really smart people banging their heads trying to build a $10,000,000

02:09>> revenue business where if they put their efforts into like a different industry, it'd be a $100,000,000 business. And so what was fascinating about restaurants was they were just going to this idea of digital transformation. Every part of the workflow was becoming software, and we thought that the point of sale system would be the place to build off of.

How Singh Became CEO: Jailed CFO, DOJ Probe, Negative NPS

Nathan Latka

02:23This wasn't an easy recruitment though. The board sort of sucked too and said, Savneet, please lead our CEO search.

Savneet Singh

02:28>> Yeah. I said I said no for a very long time. So so I got on the board it's a true story. I got on the board, I I think February, March 20000 2018. And then within two or three months of joining the board, we had our prior CFO literally got sentenced to jail for stealing money. We were under DOJ and SEC investigation for bribery and corruption. Our employee NPS was negative 60. Our customer NPS was negative

02:49>> 50. And we're So don't

Nathan Latka

02:51so don't complain if your co founder quits. Okay?

Savneet Singh

02:54>> And so, I went to the board and said, hey, I know I'm the young guy, I gotta go see what the hell's going on. This is little scary, this is my reputation. So I went and met the management team and I read back to the board and said, my advice is we sell the company. We do have this really cool product, but it's like a few million dollars of revenue and we've got a $175,000,000 of very

03:10>> average revenue. And so it's gonna take forever for the software business to become meaningful. And so we're kinda it's just not gonna work. And so while it's a great amazing product that has tremendous potential, point two is we are structured set for failure. We have less than $10,000,000 in the balance sheet and we're a public company, which is kind of crazy. We have this know, we have a culture where everybody doesn't swim the same direction. I

03:30>> remember asking all the executives, what's the best job you've ever had? And I literally went to the top ten, eleven people, and nobody said their current job. And that's crazy because I was on the compensation committee, you think somebody would lie to me and like, oh, this is the greatest job I've ever had. Like literally nobody said the same same that this was their current job, was their best job. And you know, then I'd say like,

03:45>> what's the vision? And everyone didn't have the same vision. And and And then not to mention we had this SEC investigation, DOJ investigation. We had two activist hedge funds come in trying to sell the company. And so I was like, let's sell the company. And the board is, unfortunately, board's due, sort of said, hey, no, let's find a new CEO. So we spent a few months being CEO and every month they said, take the job, take

04:02>> the job, take the job. So when I actually got the CEO job, it was really like, alright. Nobody wants to be the CEO. We'll sell the company. If you become the CEO, we'll sell the company. And so that's how I got the job.

Public Markets and the 2021 Valuation Peak

Nathan Latka

04:10On that note, over the next eighteen minutes, we're gonna talk about product strategy, operation strategy that Savneet executed, and then also M and A strategy. I first want to start off with public markets though today because at that high point your revenue 2,100,000,000 valuation is revenue was half of what it is today. But today's valuation is half. What's going on with the public markets?

Savneet Singh

04:28>> Not half like a fifth. So know, markets go through cycles and that was sort of the poster world where any enterprise software company was getting multiples that were wild. So So

Nathan Latka

04:40you think you were overpriced at that peak?

Savneet Singh

04:41>> Oh yeah, we had $30,000,000 of software revenue at that peak,

Nathan Latka

04:44$30,000,000. 2,100,000,000 valuation.

Savneet Singh

04:46>> Yeah, now we had a couple 100,000,000 of other revenues, but maybe that was worth 300 or $400,000,000 but still like thirty, forty times ARR. And so I started going to our board and saying, we got to take advantage of this. And so we went out, we bought a $500,000,000 business called Punchh that's based here in Austin now. And we started using our stock because we thought it was very inflated. And so it was the greatest we

05:09>> ever did because it gave us tremendous scale. We use an inflated currency. And so the way to think about it is we we're a $30,000,000 SaaS business that had a $2,000,000,000 valuation. We bought a 30 are

Nathan Latka

05:21you doing Task right now or Stuzo?

Savneet Singh

05:22>> Neither. I'm doing that 2021.

Nathan Latka

05:24Oh, Punchh. Okay.

Savneet Singh

05:25>> Got it. Yeah. So we bought were we were $30,000,000 revenue that was worth $2,000,000,000. We bought another $30,000,000 business for $500,000,000 that was growing faster, had better retention, and for 25% of our value. So it's like a great deal. It's sort of like trading in a very overpriced thing for double at half the price. So we felt it was kind of an amazing strategy. Fast forward, we kinda realized that gosh, that M and A motion worked

05:48>> really well. We were able to combine the companies well, integrate our cultures really well. And so in the last couple years, we've started to accelerate in in on that m and a path.

Nathan Latka

05:55So just so you guys can get your bearings, Savneet's named CEO right in 2018. He's he's officially coming and taking over. This is what the product strategy looks like in terms of the buckets. You correct me if anything I say is wrong. Was trying to get through this so we can to the good deal stuff. The upper left point of sale was the core business. Everything else is where Savneet is trying to take the company now

06:11in terms of growth, in terms of product strategy, etcetera. So my question to you is, because a lot of software founders I think mess this up and wonder why they don't have this success, is sequencing. You have to do the right things in the right order. You can't just do the right things. So how do you decide how to do stadiums, for example, before hotels?

Product Sequencing and Listening to Customers

Savneet Singh

06:29>> You got to listen to your customers. I mean, I think business is a bunch of logical decisions oftentimes and you've got to have particularly enterprise software is different. If you're Apple and you're Steve Jobs, you got to predict the future and tell people where they're going. But enterprise software, there's a little bit of that but it's a lot more of listening to the needs of your customers. I joke, if I went to our customers at par

06:47>> today and said, hey, instead of me telling you your normal QBR about our product roadmap, I'm gonna tell you about the future of AI, like they kicked me out the room. Because they're gonna say like, no, no, that's really cool, but like how are you solving my problems today? And so in enterprise software, think, you know, one of the biggest mistakes CEOs do is you get really big, get farther and farther from your customers. You create

07:04>> org charts that are completely functional where you have one CRO, one CPO, so on and so forth. And you get you the decision makers get farther and farther and farther from the customer. And so what I work really aggressively is how do we constantly redo our org charts so that the leaders are closer and closer to customers. And so that's kinda how we got there. It's really simple. Restaurants are are no longer growing in The United

07:20>> States. Right? The the it's like we're over retail, we're over restaurant. And so the growth of units of restaurants is now in stadiums. It's in convenience stores, EV charging stations. It's not gonna be the net new box. And so we wanted to kinda pull our products in that way. And so that's kinda how you figure it out. You have to just listen to your customers intently and then obviously listen to your developers and and they'll sort

07:35>> of tell you what they're hearing from the customers as well.

Nathan Latka

07:37So Savneet is not only listening, he's also he's driving both organic growth and inorganic growth. Over the next six minutes, we're gonna talk about the inorganic growth. What that means is acquisitions buying revenue. If I ask you guys today, just to run through this math real quick, I'm gonna ask you to yell it out. If you guys saw a 20,000,000 or $30,000,000 software company today with $5,000,000 of true profits. Right, Ben Murray? Not like someone with

07:58adjusted EBITDA where there's not real money at the bottom. Like true money profits, 5,000,000. So 30 top line million, $5,000,000 at the bottom. What would you guys pay for that company? Just think about it for a second. $30,000,000 top line, $5,000,000 EBITDA. What would you pay? On the count of three yell it out. One, two, three.

08:19It's tough comments. Dror, what would you pay?

08:23Probably a 150. 150,000,000. Okay. Any other? Anyone else? You think that's high or low? Matt, you're taking over the under. You've sold a company. Under. You think cheaper than $150,000,000. These guys, they're just like, wow. You're a great deal maker no matter what. Okay. We'll we'll put this in a button. I'll put in a button and let's have me break it down. He's effectively bought for $400,000,000 of cash and stock, two companies totaling $80,000,000 of top

M&A Philosophy: What PAR Looks for in Acquisitions

Nathan Latka

08:44line revenue and over $20,000,000 of profits. So 20,000,000 of profits into 400,000,000. You guys can do that. That's a 20 x EBITDA multiple. There are some SaaS founders that are like, I'm not gonna sell unless it's a 20 x top line revenue number. He's paying 20 x EBITDA number. So break down the first acquisition. How did you get Task done?

Savneet Singh

09:01>> Yeah. And listen, I think just on the valuation thing, I think it's important for everyone to know that that, you know, software is not software, it's not software. Not every software company is gonna say multiple. So you can have two different companies with the exact same metrics and they shouldn't trade the same. And so you've gotta be very specific about what you're acquiring, what you're buying. You can see software companies growing at 100%, they trade at

09:18>> three times And you can see software companies growing 20%, they'll trade at 10 times. And you have to be very discerning about how you think about that. And the stuff that we look at at par is we obsess over a, how sticky is that end market? In the end, you can't outgrow the churn of your end market. So if you're selling to an end market that is churning, you could pretend you have high net retention. But

Task Acquisition: McDonald's International Loyalty

Savneet Singh

09:37>> in the end, cost of capital will be very expensive because that end market is churning super fast. So if you're selling software to Uber drivers, that's gonna suck because those guys churn over a lot. If you're selling software to McDonald's, like that's a great business because McDonald's is probably not going out of business anytime soon. So we we acquired a business called Task. It's based out in Sydney, Australia. They are, you know, $47,000,000 of ARR. We

09:58>> we obviously leave a little we undercut the numbers a little bit. They are McDonald's loyalty solution international. So if go to France and open the loyalty app, that's McDonald's. I'm sorry, that's Task. If you go to Japan, you go to Italy, the app is beautiful. It changes language. It changes menus, currencies, payment. I mean, it's incredibly complex. 6,000,000,000 API calls a month, real scale. And so we discovered them because they do that for Starbucks in Australia,

10:20>> McDonald's, other a bunch of other brands. And we were all US based. And what was the challenging thing we were finding out was our US customers, big think of it as big US restaurant chains, are growing more outside The United States than The United States. And so we When

Nathan Latka

10:31you said that on the call, didn't believe that because I'm going, well, all the McDonald's in, obviously, Russia have not shut down. The US economy is killing it. Why is McDonald's not

Savneet Singh

10:38>> growing faster than The US? Because the footprint's already been built out. And by the McDonald's is the only one that's growing in The US again. They've sort of made a commitment to redo their their store footprint. But the vast majority, like Popeyes, super fast growing chain, you know, they've got 900 store openings, 800 international. Wow. And the Burger King is the same thing. And it's just because the you know, we are over restauranted here, so the

10:55>> growth is international. And so we wanted to follow our customers. And the challenge was as when we started the company, our ARR when we started, we took over the company, our ARR was less than $10,000,000. Three months ago, won a deal that was $23,000,000 of ARR with one customer a year. And so as we've gotten these bigger and bigger customers, we realized that we can't just be like, oh, we're just going to service in The US

11:14>> and find something else international. And so this is super synergistic from a product strategy perspective. We bought the business for less than, call it, 4 times ARR for a business that's been growing 30% a year with a 100%, a 100%, well over a 100% net retention, gross retention at 96, 97. I mean, these metrics, it's just really hard to find assets And like the reason we convinced them is, I used to joke that I wanted to

11:38>> start the Berkshire Hathaway software. But what I realized was, we're a growth business. But when you're a founder and you have to make that decision to sell your company, you still want your product to succeed. And so the reason we were able to convince Daniel

Nathan Latka

11:50Pause right there. He'll tell you how I convinced him in the VIP room after this. So what you see here we've to hold that. Don't know. It's a genius story. What you see here though, I'm putting this up here because this is how a guy like this thinks about buying a company. You guys a lot are at the stage, revenue wise, that you have if you want to sell someone like this that you'd like to buy

12:08you. This is how he sells it internally. So notice it's not just financial metrics. It's the usage based metrics you see up on the screen. Talk about some of the usage based metrics you love.

Usage-Based Metrics and Telemetry in Diligence

Savneet Singh

12:16>> A lot of things I asked for in the second round of diligence is like I want your telemetry data. I want to see are people actually using your product. Because, you know, one of things that I find fascinating is, you know, product led founders are amazing at building product. But they're very bad at rationalizing product. And the reason why you're gonna rationalize product is not just a p and l exercise, which is, hey, you've got too

12:33>> much work going on in parts of your product that your customer aren't using. It's actually you are starving the the the investment in the products that people are using. So if you've a product that has 25 widgets on it and five widgets are being used, those 20 widgets that you're spending money and time on are actually taking away from those five. Mhmm. And so I love to get into weeds. One of the things that was very

12:49>> clear about this product was, holy crap, your platform is being used Crazy. Way more than you suggested. Which to me means like, my god, these customers are never turning. Like, could you imagine having a product that gets $4,000,000,000 of transactions or 4,000,000 transactions? Like, could you imagine the fear if you're the CIO and you're like, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna change vendors Like, just imagine how scary that is. Right? That's not gonna happen. And so I

13:08>> have to tell you a couple billion.

Nathan Latka

13:09Is there a fintech product coming from from a you have a lot of data. Square's got a massive credit business.

Savneet Singh

13:14>> Yes. We built credit. The first thing we're gonna do is build a a financing business and a and a and a payments business out of this, you know, once the transaction closes. Mhmm.

Nathan Latka

13:21Yeah. You'll have to meet somebody in the hallway. He's got a great credit backstory here. But let's keep moving forward here with the second deal you did with Stuzo. How'd this get done?

Stuzo Acquisition: Convenience Store Loyalty

Savneet Singh

13:27>> Yeah. So By

Nathan Latka

13:28the way, both of these were announced just two weeks ago. So you guys are getting it fresh off the presses. How'd this happen?

Savneet Singh

13:32>> Yeah. So we are as I mentioned, restaurants are growing really faster than convenience stores and fuel stores. A great example. There's a chain called Casey's. Casey's is a large public company, sells convenience stores all across the country. They're also the fourth largest pizza company in the world. And so these c stores wanted loyalty software. They wanted you to come in and say, hey, I got points for my my order. Want you to stay loyal to my

13:53>> c store. And so our our our loyalty we have the largest loyalty product in restaurants. We're in 48 of the top 100 restaurants in world. If you have the Taco Bell app, that's us. And so that that was kinda happening with c stores. So they started pulling us into the c store market. We got in there and realized, holy crap, we have no idea what we're doing. Convenience stores have gas. They have EV charging, car washes,

14:10>> like just everything is different. And we're trying to bastardize our product for this market. And it was working. Like we were winning tons of business here. But we realized that if we we had to make a decision, is do we wanna go all in on this market or do do we wanna get out of it? And so I went to our leader of this business. I said, you got three options. You can shut this business down

14:25>> and say, I'm just gonna focus on restaurants. You can go buy somebody here and scale it and actually treat it like a real business. Or you can try to sell it off. But we can't kinda do this from the side of our desk. Mhmm. And so we went and found Stuzo who's by far the best in this market. You know, it's business that did 40 and by all these numbers are LTM. So these businesses are growing

14:43>> very nicely. Again, mixing multiples even

Nathan Latka

14:45more Last last twelve months.

Savneet Singh

14:46>> Yeah. So so these are incredibly. Last year, you know, the business did 40,000,000 of revenue, $17,000,000 of cash flow. We got it done at, you know, a 170, $100,000,000, a $190,000,000.

Nathan Latka

14:56So 4.5 x ARR.

Savneet Singh

14:57>> And so 12 times cash flow. The business grew, This

Nathan Latka

15:01is like so guys, imagine I mean, this blows my mind how cheap. You have to ask him how he does these deals. You just ask him in the hallway. He'll tell you the full story. It's incredible.

Savneet Singh

15:09>> And and again, it's the same kind of thing where they had a higher offer from from another bidder, we you know, they they we wanted to continue the story of, let's build this into something successful, roll your equity, and so on and so forth. And so one of things that's worked is because we are a stable pair of hands, but because we are growth, can show, join your baby with us, and we're gonna build it and

15:24>> grow it and build something special. We can attract those founders. We're we're not if you're a private equity, 100% private equity owned, it's

Nathan Latka

15:29a little bit harder.

Savneet Singh

15:31>> But for us, we kinda sell the vision of the future.

Nathan Latka

15:33We're not gonna spend a lot of time on this slide. We've got five minutes left. But this is how Savneet has laid out the vision on his earnings calls. This is how they think about product strategy. Now did you come up with open here. Did you come up with Open Commerce? Or

Savneet Singh

15:43>> That was their brand, but we're sort of morphing and changing.

ARR Per Share and Capital Efficiency for Private Companies

Nathan Latka

15:45The next thing I wanna talk about is something that I wanna try and get you to give the private company equivalent. You talk a ton about ARR per share. It's gone from like nothing to $6 ARR per share. And you say the reason you do this is there's real cash flow ever and every under every dollar of ARR. What's the equivalent for a private company?

Savneet Singh

16:02>> Well, I I think the the the question you need to think about is for every dollar you invest in the company, how much ARR is being driven by that? Mhmm. And the reason I I say ARR is a proxy for for for cash flow is historically when when venture capital first started investing in software businesses, there was no earnings. Gross margins might have been depressed because you were still building out the infrastructure to scale. And so

16:23>> you had to make a bet of like, I think this business will have this terminal value of cash flow. This might be a 20% margin, 10% margin. And so ARR was your way of saying, if I think this is gonna be a 20% margin business and I invest this at five times, I'm effectively buying in at 25 times cash flow. So you're sort of trying to back into that. And so what we realized was, while we

16:42>> were making and we shouldn't talk about this, but PAR was a real mess. We had to completely rebuild our product. We were spending a 100% of our revenue on r and d. It was crazy. We needed a measure of, like, are we making progress? And so the way we figured out was, hey. We think we're gonna be at 25% cash flow margin, maybe a 30% cash flow margin business one day. So if we assume that we're

16:58>> we're we have $6 of ARR per share, well, means we have this much cash flow per share, which means we're doing well. And so the way I would encourage founders to think about is for every dollar you raise, how much ARR are you generating from that? Provided you think there's cash flow under that ARR. And what would impress you? Oh, I mean, it just depends how how fast you're scaling. Like, to LTV is is a proxy

17:15>> for this. But, you know, I sort of like to think about if you can't if you're gonna raise a $100,000,000 round and you can't generate a $100,000,000 of net new from that, like, I start to get a little bit nervous.

Nathan Latka

17:22So you love a founder that's raised less than their ARR?

Savneet Singh

17:24>> That'd be And over time. Oh, for sure. I mean, you kinda have to be. Right? Because I think if you're because you you implicitly, you're gonna say my churn is like zero. But that's like that's a total lie. Right? And and so I'm as investor gonna go in even with these businesses, like these these are both businesses like the last company, Stuzo, has never lost a customer. But when we're building our model, we're gonna assume they're

17:41>> gonna lose a customer. Right? And so you've gotta always underwrite to conservatism. And so my view is, you know, you raise a $100,000,000, you should be able to generate a $100,000,000 of ARR off of that platform over time to pay back for the time that it takes to get to a $100,000,000.

Nathan Latka

17:52Great great story there. Obviously, that continues to grow. And the market doesn't really care if

Savneet Singh

17:56>> this If error this doesn't work goes the other way, then you're like, oh my god. They're getting way more inefficient. It's it's shortcut for inefficiency.

Nathan Latka

18:01But you've know you've got arbitrage right now with where the stock is valued relative with where you can buy at. You're also you know, you wanna ask them about just talk, I guess, really quickly about pricing power. The reason you can buy a company and not be the highest bidder is because you've used your moat to basically undercut their price and win deals and make them feel that. Talk a bit about that for sixty seconds.

Platform vs. Niche Product Strategy

Savneet Singh

18:19>> Yeah. Let me answer it a completely different way, which is Okay. You know, was the I was a founder. I was in this audience, you know, years ago. You know, one of the biggest mistakes people make about software is that they build a product that solves a very niche need. And they're like, oh my god. My amazing. And you know what? All your customers tell you you're amazing because you're solving a very niche narrow need. But

18:36>> then you wake up one day and the platform product comes in and it's like, I can give you what those guys have for half the price. And that's kinda what happened with Teams and Slack and Zoom. And you know, I always say, think about the products you love. Whether it's like a DocuSign or Zoom or all the content I just talked about, like and look what they trade at. They trade at, three times revenue. You know,

18:52>> these are DocuSign's a great product. Zoom is a great product, but they trade at the shittiest multiples. And even though they are great products now think of the products you hate. ADP, SAP. Like, literally, think of all the products you hate the most. They trade at the highest multiples. You know why? Because the platform product is way more durable than the single vertical product. And the single biggest problem people make in investing and starting companies is

19:15>> they think they because they get a lot of great feedback from their customers because they're solving one narrow need, they're worth 10 times revenue. In reality, it's not. And so what we when we when we are literally going to our companies, we're like, here's what's gonna happen. You solve Stuzo. You're an amazing company. You make $17,000,000 free cash flow, but you solve one need, which is loyalty. Wait till I'm the POS company, and I go to

19:31>> your customers and say, hey. I'm gonna give you 80% of what they have for half the cost. And, by the way, when you buy my product, now all your data's in one place. And so you don't you can cut off all the other costs, you can build something better. And so a little bit is also sharing the vision of like, hey. I love what you're doing, but that is not a strategy to win. And so our

19:46>> strategy was we're gonna we are the platform. We are the, call it, ERP of that market, and we can then bolt this stuff on more effectively. And listen. In the end, if you're a founder of the market and you talk to your customers and you're like, hey. Do you want 20 vendors or do you want five vendors? Like, they're gonna pick five. Mhmm. And it happens over and over again. And so I would encourage all of

20:02>> you to think about, like, are you the are you the narrow niche vertical product? Are you the platform? And and if you're that narrow niche product and you get a great multiple exit, you should. And if you're if not, then you should figure out how to build a platform. Now, Savneet,

When Founders Should and Should Not Take on Debt

Nathan Latka

20:12before we wrap up, you founded Coventure. You're very active in the debt space. You're also an investor in Founderpath. Talk a

Savneet Singh

20:18>> little bit about when founders should and should not think about debt.

20:23>> I think debt is super exciting because it's non dilutive and you can scale quickly. And obviously, economics of what you just showed for yourself. And Founderpath is like the most elegant solution I've seen for that. But at the same time, it can also kill you. And so what I would encourage you to think about is what is the worst case scenario for my business? The true worst case. And then model out, can you support the debt

20:44>> under that worst case? And then that's how you should figure out how you should take on debt. You should not model a base case. Model over the worst And and you'll be absolutely fine. The other part I would tell you is, it it's do you wanna grow fast or slow? And there are many bootstrap companies that take twenty years to become amazing businesses. And that and since I wouldn't take on the debt. I would just fund

21:00>> it for yourself. But if you wanna grow fast, think it's a really nice complement to having potentially equity or bridging you to equity down the road.

Nathan Latka

21:06Yep. Guys, on that note, if you wanna learn more from Savneet and you have a gold badge, he's gonna head back to the VIP room and do a thirty minute session private. You can ask him follow-up questions on anything we discussed today. But he opened up pretty big, took over a publicly traded company when it was stuck at $200,000,000 of company at 34 revenue at 34 years old. Then went in and said, I'm gonna drive growth

21:25here both inorganic and organic up to 400,000,000 of revenue, continues to grow quickly, build a great team, and really, you know, grow aggressively along this product road map and find great deals to buy at I don't wanna say bottom bottom bottom prices, but great deals. Guys, give it up give it up for Savneet Singh.

Savneet Singh

21:41>> Thank you.

Nathan Latka

21:42Thanks, man. You're good.

21:47Hey, folks. If we haven't met yet, my name is Nathan Latka. I launched and sold my first software company back in 2015 and went on to write a book about it, which you guys made a Wall Street Journal bestseller purchasing over 30,000 copies. Thank you so much for that. After the book, I launched this show and one went on to create founderpath.com. I raised a large fund to do non dilutive deals with b to b software

22:13founders. So far, we've invested in over 400 software founders totaling a $150,000,000. Here in 2024, we're doing three to four new deals per week. So if you're looking for capital and don't wanna give up equity, go sign up at founderpath.com for free to get your offer.