Founder Interview
How SentiOne Reached 450 Customers and 30 to 50% Average Growth with AI-Powered Social Listening (Interview with Co-Founder and CEO Kamil Bargiel)
- Interview Date
- October 24, 2018
- Interviewee
- Kamil BargielCo-Founder and CEO
Company Metrics at Interview Time
Customers (2018)
450
Avg Revenue per Account (2018)
$350 per month
Team Size (2018)
65
Total Funding Raised
$5M
Historical Snapshot
These numbers were reported by Kamil Bargiel during the interview recorded in October 2018 and are a historical snapshot, not current figures. See SentiOne’s current numbers.
Key Takeaways
- 01SentiOne had 450 paying customers as of October 2018, tested by over 20,000 brands in total
- 02Average revenue per account was $350 per month
- 03The company was growing approximately 30 to 50% on average over the last six years
- 04Team totaled 65 people, with 10 in pure sales roles
- 05CAC payback period was around 8 months
- 06LTV to CAC ratio was 3.5, with estimated LTV of about $7,000
- 07Initial seed funding was €200K raised in 2011 for servers and data infrastructure
- 08Total capital raised to date was $5M, with the last round about one and a half years before the interview
- 09SentiOne was raising roughly $6M to $7M at the time of the interview; Kamil hoped for a valuation of "somewhere between 10 to 12 ARR", which Nathan put at about $22M pre-money
- 10At the time, SentiOne's R&D center was in Poland, with sales offices in Munich, Prague, and Budapest
Company Metrics at Time of Interview
| Metric | Value | Source |
|---|---|---|
| Customers (2018) | 450 | Founder interview, Oct 2018 |
| Brands Tested (Trial Users) (2018) | Over 20,000 | Founder interview, Oct 2018 |
| Avg Revenue per Account (2018) | $350 per month | Founder interview, Oct 2018 |
| Average Growth (2018) | Approximately 30 to 50% on average over the last six years | Founder interview, Oct 2018 |
| CAC Payback Period (2018) | About 8 months | Founder interview, Oct 2018 |
| Team Size (2018) | 65 | Founder interview, Oct 2018 |
| Sales Reps (2018) | 10 | Founder interview, Oct 2018 |
| Initial Seed Round (2011) | €200K | Founder interview, Oct 2018 |
| Total Funding Raised | $5M | Founder interview, Oct 2018 |
| Year Founded | 2011 | Founder interview, Oct 2018 |
Growth Breakdown
Revenue and Pricing
SentiOne's average revenue per account was $350 per month as of October 2018, serving 450 paying customers. The company had been tested by over 20,000 brands in total, indicating a broad top-of-funnel relative to its converted base.
Growth Rate
Kamil said the company was "growing on average by approximately 30 to 50% in the last six years." Growth came from both inbound online channels and an outbound sales team targeting enterprise accounts across Europe.
Team
SentiOne had 65 people at the time of the interview, with 10 in pure sales roles. The outbound sales team was distributed across several European cities including Munich, Prague, and Budapest, with a multilingual inbound demo team based in Poland.
Funding
The company raised an initial €200K seed round in 2011 to fund servers and data gathering. Total capital raised reached $5M by October 2018, with the last round completed about one and a half years prior. At the time of the interview, SentiOne was raising roughly $6M to $7M. Asked what valuation he hoped for, Kamil said it should be "somewhere between 10 to 12 ARR", which Nathan put at about a $22M pre-money valuation. Kamil said SentiOne aimed to sell 20% in the round. SentiOne was also talking to the European Investment Bank about venture debt.
Growth Strategy
Organic SEO and Inbound
Kamil credited organic SEO as a core inbound channel, driving trial sign-ups that were then converted by a multilingual demo team based in Poland. Inbound leads were handled separately from the outbound enterprise sales motion.
Retargeting Advertising
The team used retargeting advertising to re-engage visitors and trial users, complementing the organic inbound funnel with paid re-engagement.
Cold Outreach and Outbound Sales
SentiOne's outbound sales team worked with big accounts and enterprise customers from a couple of remote locations in Europe, and was starting in the UK in 2018. Kamil counted 10 people in pure sales roles out of a team of 65.
Influencer Marketing
Kamil mentioned influencer marketing as part of the inbound mix, used alongside SEO and retargeting to build brand awareness and drive trial sign-ups.
Product Expansion into AI and Chat
SentiOne expanded from social listening into customer service and engagement, and then into artificial intelligence that automates responses to customers, which Kamil called "quite a recent development." He said it could handle more complex scenarios than simple replies, such as money transfers for a bank's customers through the bank's messenger, app or embedded chat.
Best Quotes
“Well, it's actually a pure SaaS. We started a social listening company, meaning that we, listen to billions of conversation about brands, people, products online, and we deliver this knowledge to, small, medium, and large companies that want to have an advantage in social media space.”
“So our average revenue per account, it's $350.”
“So right now we have over four fifty customers, but we have been tested by over 20,000 different brands.”
“So we are growing on average by approximately 30 to 50% in the last six years.”
“Well, we have raised initial capital seven years ago. It was €200,000 because we needed servers. We basically needed to gather a lot of data when... And we are still students without that amount of capital, so we have raised the first money from seed investors and private angels.”
“Today, we have raised a bit more. It will be a total of $5,000,000 already.”
“So in total, we are 65 people right now, out of which sales would be purely sales, would say 10 people.”
“The lesson I learned is that you have to be patient in many things. And as a young person, you're not. So I would love to know that in many cases, you need to be patient to see the result.”
What Happened Next
At the time of this interview in October 2018, SentiOne had over 450 customers and a team of 65, had raised $5M in total, and was raising roughly $6M to $7M more. Asked about valuation, Kamil said it should be "somewhere between 10 to 12 ARR"; Nathan put that at about a $22M pre-money valuation, a hoped-for figure rather than agreed terms. Visit the SentiOne company profile on GetLatka for current metrics and updated information.
View SentiOne’s current profile and metricsFull Transcript
Chapters
- 0:00Introduction and Company Overview
- 0:18What SentiOne Does and Its SaaS Model
- 0:44Pricing and Average Revenue per Account
- 0:54Company Timeline and Customer Count
- 1:29Growth Rate Over Six Years
- 1:49Bootstrapped or Funded: Capital Raised
- 2:30Current Raise, Target Valuation, and Venture Debt Talks
- 5:51Product Deep Dive: Social Listening and AI
- 7:43Churn and Revenue Retention
- 8:59Customer Acquisition Channels
- 9:44Team Size and Sales Headcount
- 10:02CAC, LTV, and Payback Period
- 11:22Famous Five: Books, CEOs, Tools, and Life Lessons
Introduction and Company Overview
Nathan Latka
00:00Hello, everyone. My guest today is Kamil Bargiel. He's a serial entrepreneur and startup evangelist with expertise in Internet and social media. Since 2012, he cofounded and... He's cofounder and CEO of a company called SentiOne, an AI-powered social listening and engagement platform. Kamil, are you ready to take us to the top?
Kamil Bargiel
00:16Yeah. Sure. Let's start.
What SentiOne Does and Its SaaS Model
Nathan Latka
00:18Very good. Alright. SentiOne. So what's the company do and is it a pure play SaaS revenue model?
Kamil Bargiel
00:23Well, it's actually a pure SaaS. We started a social listening company, meaning that we, listen to billions of conversation about brands, people, products online, and we deliver this knowledge to, small, medium, and large companies that want to have an advantage in social media space.
Pricing and Average Revenue per Account
Nathan Latka
00:44And what do people on average pay for this per month would you say?
Kamil Bargiel
00:47Yeah. So our average revenue per account, it's $350.
Company Timeline and Customer Count
Nathan Latka
00:54Okay, so not maybe small business but definitely not kind of mid or enterprise. You're kind of in the middle there. Let's put all this on a timelines. When did you launch the company? What year?
Kamil Bargiel
01:03It was 2011, October.
Nathan Latka
01:06Okay, 2011. And then over the past kind of seven, eight years, how many customers have you been able to grow to?
Kamil Bargiel
01:12So right now we have over four fifty customers, but we have been tested by over 20,000 different brands.
Nathan Latka
01:19That's great. Okay. So four fifty customers at that $350 a month price point, that would mean your MRR is what? Around $150K a month, something like that?
Kamil Bargiel
01:27Yeah. That... That's exactly what we do.
Growth Rate Over Six Years
Nathan Latka
01:29Oh, that's great. And what does growth look like? So if you go back a year, where were you a year ago in October 2017?
Kamil Bargiel
01:34So we are growing on average by approximately 30 to 50% in the last six years.
Nathan Latka
01:41Okay. So about $120,000 per month exactly a year ago, something like that.
Kamil Bargiel
01:48Yeah. Exactly.
Bootstrapped or Funded: Capital Raised
Nathan Latka
01:49Okay. And this is great. So I wanna dive more into the product after I understand this last question here. Have you decided to bootstrap the company or have you raised capital?
Kamil Bargiel
01:58Well, we have raised initial capital seven years ago. It was €200,000 because we needed servers. We basically needed to gather a lot of data when... And we are still students without that amount of capital, so we have raised the first money from seed investors and private private angels.
Nathan Latka
02:16So total money raised to date, is that just 200K?
Kamil Bargiel
02:19No. No. Today, we have raised a bit more. It will be a total of $5,000,000 already.
Nathan Latka
02:25Okay. And when did... When was the last round of funding?
Kamil Bargiel
02:28It was one and a half years ago.
Current Raise, Target Valuation, and Venture Debt Talks
Nathan Latka
02:30Okay, that means you're either raising right now or you're in the middle of acquisition talks with somebody, which one is it?
Kamil Bargiel
02:39Actually, are raising, we still believe a lot in the company. We think that we are now in the late late seed stage of our company. We have managed to see that we have the product market fit, but we test a lot of things, and we are still finishing our product portfolio. Now we're raising about roughly 6 to $7,000,000.
Nathan Latka
02:59Okay. And do you mind me asking in your ideal world, what valuation are you planning to raise that at?
Kamil Bargiel
03:06Well, we believe that it should be somewhere between 10 to 12 ARR.
Nathan Latka
03:11Sorry, you think your valuation will be 10 x your current ARR?
Kamil Bargiel
03:17Yes.
Nathan Latka
03:17Okay. So that would be a basically a $22,000,000 pre money valuation.
Kamil Bargiel
03:25Yes, exactly.
Nathan Latka
03:26Yeah. Okay. Good. So $22,000,000, if you raise kind of 6,000,000, what's that mean? You're selling, oh, what is that? Like, $2.20, maybe 10, 20%, something like that of the company?
Kamil Bargiel
03:37Yeah. We we aim to sell 20% at this point and probably do some buyouts over the first initial seed investors so that we don't dilute ourselves.
Nathan Latka
03:45Yeah. That's smart. Now as you as you think about this round of funding, I... Remind everyone where you're based. Are you... You're over... I believe you're in you're in Poland. Right?
Kamil Bargiel
03:55Well, the r and d center is based in Poland, but the sales offices are based, well, in Munich, Poland, Prague, and Budapest. So a couple of countries.
Nathan Latka
04:04Okay. And and what is the funding environment like over there? And the reason I'm asking, there are there are a lot of companies leveraging venture debt, right, at this kind of stage. Are you looking at venture debt, or do you just wanna do equity?
Kamil Bargiel
04:16Well, we are looking at both, basically, because we are we are also talking with European Investment Bank that has this this tool, this year, the venture debt, and we think this could be a potential nice leverage for for series a investors. So we're also looking into this this thing.
Nathan Latka
04:34Yeah. Maybe, you know, raise 4,000,000 in equity and 2,000,000 in venture debt.
Kamil Bargiel
04:38Yeah.
Nathan Latka
04:39Yeah. That's smart. Now the bank you're working with, is it like a Silicon Valley bank? Do they require personal guarantees and covenants and warrants or no?
Kamil Bargiel
04:47No. It's actually European Investment Bank.
Nathan Latka
04:51Do they require covenants and warrants and personal guarantees?
Kamil Bargiel
04:55No. That's that's the advantage. They don't require that.
Nathan Latka
04:57Okay. That's interesting. I've never actually heard of a bank, investment bank doing a deal like this at interest rates that are actually re... Maybe the interest rate's not reasonable, but at at reasonable interest rates and not having some kind of warrant coverage.
Kamil Bargiel
05:10Well, that's public money, which is backed with this bank. So they don't simply require... They treat it as a tool for us supporting young entrepreneurs from Europe into, you know, going global. So that's... Yeah.
Nathan Latka
05:24So what... I mean, are we talking like 5% interest rate or, like, 10% typically?
Kamil Bargiel
05:28It's four to 6%, which is I think fairly Pretty good. Pretty good.
Nathan Latka
05:32That's really good. What's the... Do you mind me asking the firm since they're public? What's their name?
Kamil Bargiel
05:36It's European Investment Bank.
Nathan Latka
05:39Oh, it's actually called European Investment Bank.
Kamil Bargiel
05:42Yeah. Oh.
Nathan Latka
05:44Got it. Okay. Very good.
Kamil Bargiel
05:46You can go to the online and look for venture debt at European Investment Bank.
Product Deep Dive: Social Listening and AI
Nathan Latka
05:51Okay. Yeah. No. I'll do that. That's great. Let's talk more about the products. So help us understand more about what the product actually does.
Kamil Bargiel
06:00So basically starting with SentiOne, so the first step is you you register our website, then you type in your product or brand name, and you instantly get the first mentions from social media, blogs, forums, portals in real time. So you can follow the conversation online about your brand. But the next step, you can use our tool to integrate your to start providing customer service and communicate with customers online. So that's the the second point. And the
06:29last step, you can apply... This is quite a recent development. You can apply artificial intelligence that will ultimately the the responses and the the discussion with your brand and your customers.
Nathan Latka
06:41Okay, so this is like if someone I'm an airplane, I'm an airliner that uses you guys if some if a message we always get is, you know, when does my flight take off? Or why is there a delay, you can have essentially an automated response that says like the weather is bad today, really apologize. Like, you know, hopefully the sun comes out soon. Right? And they can send it through your platform.
Kamil Bargiel
07:02Exactly. But that's the simplest scenario scenario, we can do a lot more complex scenarios, like transferring the money for for your bank and stuff like that.
Nathan Latka
07:10Oh, interesting. So if I tweet, BB and T, like your site's not working. Transfer $10 from... First off, I I don't know that I'd ever tweet that, but if someone did, would that... You could process that?
Kamil Bargiel
07:21You probably couldn't do that via Twitter, but you can do it messenger of of that bank, or you can go to their mobile app or website and use that and include it or embedded chat, and you can do it via their chat where you can authenticate
Nathan Latka
07:36chat or you're tying into the API of the firms you sell to?
Kamil Bargiel
07:40Well, it's both. Both. We can do both.
Churn and Revenue Retention
Nathan Latka
07:43So you own... You have a chat product yourself. They install it with JavaScript or
Kamil Bargiel
07:43That's chat product.
Nathan Latka
07:43Interesting. Churn's critical in a SaaS company. What's your revenue churn per year?
Kamil Bargiel
07:53So the revenue churn is quite good, I think. Last year, it was four and a half percent. This year, it's less than four. It would be three and a half. It's like twelve months average churn... MRR churn.
Nathan Latka
08:05So just to be clear, that's 3.5 churned over a year or each month?
Kamil Bargiel
08:10Over a year.
Nathan Latka
08:11Okay. So 3.5
Kamil Bargiel
08:12Each month on average from the last year, it will be 3.5%.
Nathan Latka
08:17Sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah. So 3.5 annual revenue churn. And is that a gross number or a net number? Are you adding back expansion?
Kamil Bargiel
08:24It's not. We are adding... Actually, are adding expansions, but it's it's new chart... It's new MRR minus downgrades and the loss MRR plus expansion.
Nathan Latka
08:34Yeah. So just to be clear, give me the actual gross number. Just how much revenue do you lose? It's obviously higher than 3.5%.
Kamil Bargiel
08:41Yeah. So probably that would be... Let me count it in a half. It's five to 6%.
Nathan Latka
08:46Okay. So five to 6% gross, which means you're expanding two to 3% those same accounts, and that's how you get net net 3.5. Yeah. Okay, good. And then talk to me about customer acquisition. How you signing up these new customers?
Customer Acquisition Channels
Kamil Bargiel
08:59So we have the, of course, inbound and outbound sales. The outbound sales team works with big accounts and the enterprise customers. They are like the outbound sales is located in a couple of remote locations in Europe. We are starting with UK this year as well. And it's less that we just that are scheduling the meetings, doing the stuff like that. But in the inbound scenario, we are doing a lot of online SEO, influencers, some remarketing and
09:32stuff like that. And we have a team located in Poland, which is delivering online demos to all people that sign up for our trial.
Nathan Latka
09:41Got it. And what's... So
09:42break It's down
Kamil Bargiel
09:42it's multilingual team.
Team Size and Sales Headcount
Nathan Latka
09:44Yeah. Since a lot of this is... It sounds like you have a sales team here. Break your team down for me. How many people on your team total and how many are sales?
Kamil Bargiel
09:51So in total, we are 65 people right now, out of which sales would be purely sales, would say 10 people.
CAC, LTV, and Payback Period
Nathan Latka
10:02And so when you take their salaries and commissions into consideration plus any paid spend, what's your fully weighted CAC to get a new $350 a month customer?
Kamil Bargiel
10:11Sorry, once again?
Nathan Latka
10:13What what do you pay to get a new $350 a month customer fully weighted?
Kamil Bargiel
10:17Alright. So I can tell you that customer lifetime value to customer acquisition is 3.5.
Nathan Latka
10:25Okay. Well, what what do you assume lifetime value is?
Kamil Bargiel
10:29Well, it... The total amount of money that we get from the customer over the the lifetime. So till they churn.
Nathan Latka
10:35Well, I know what the definition of lifetime value is, I'm saying, what is your lifetime value in dollars?
Kamil Bargiel
10:44Well, just let me count it, It will be
10:50it will be like $7,000.
Nathan Latka
10:53Okay. 7,000. So what you're saying is, you you know, I can essentially take 7,000, divide that by 3.5 and say you're willing to spend $2,000 to get a new $350 a month customer?
Kamil Bargiel
11:05It's an average, of course, because we include enterprise and both online customers.
Nathan Latka
11:09Of course. Yeah. Definitely. Definitely an average. But that would put... Mean, that puts your payback period at what is that? About six, seven months. So that's still... I mean, it's a healthy payback period.
Kamil Bargiel
11:18It's around eight up to to to to like, currently.
Famous Five: Books, CEOs, Tools, and Life Lessons
Nathan Latka
11:22Okay. That's great. Very good. Alright. Let's wrap up here with the famous five. Number one, what's your favorite business book?
Kamil Bargiel
11:30My favorite business book.
11:34It's a it's it's... Recently, I've I've read the... What's the name? The Hard Thing About Hard Things.
Nathan Latka
11:42Yep. That's a good one. Number two, is there a CEO you're following or studying?
Kamil Bargiel
11:45And I think everybody sees their story.
Nathan Latka
11:48No. It's okay.
Kamil Bargiel
11:49The CEO I'm following. Yeah.
Nathan Latka
11:54Yeah. Give me a second question here, Kamil. Is there a CEO that you're following or studying?
Kamil Bargiel
12:00Yeah. I'm following Elon Musk a lot because I'm really interested. I'm inspired by his vision, but I'm really interested where it will take him. So he's the guy I'm following.
Nathan Latka
12:09Number three. What's your favorite online tool?
Kamil Bargiel
12:13My favorite online tool, Pipedrive. I love this tool. I'm a sales guy, so I love Pipedrive.
Nathan Latka
12:18That's good. Those guys are pushing about a $100,000,000 in ARR, so they're growing quickly. Number four, how many hours of sleep do get every night?
Kamil Bargiel
12:25I sleep, like, quite quite healthy. It's seven seven hours per day.
Nathan Latka
12:29And what's your situation? Married, single, kiddos?
Kamil Bargiel
12:33Married with two kids.
Nathan Latka
12:34Two kids. Very good. And how old are you?
Kamil Bargiel
12:38Me, it's 32.
Nathan Latka
12:3930. 32. Okay.
12:40Kamil, last question. What do wish your 20 year old self knew?
Kamil Bargiel
12:45I wish... Actually, I... I'm happy that I didn't know a lot of things that I know today because I wouldn't plan to start a business in the first place.
Nathan Latka
12:52Well, just give me something that you wish you knew back then, a lesson you learned, something like that.
Kamil Bargiel
12:59The lesson I learned is that you have to be patient in many things. And as a young person, you're not. So I would love to know that in many cases, you need to be patient to see the see the result.
Nathan Latka
13:10Guys, there you have it. Kamil SentiOne founded back a couple years ago, call it 2011. Now 65 people doing about $157K per month in revenue. They've raised $5,000,000. They've got four fifty customers paying for their tool, which essentially allows you to be more effective on social. Social listening, customer engagement platform. They're currently raising caught between 6 and 7,000,000, hopefully, on a $22,000,000 pre money valuation. Looking maybe at using a European Investment Bank for some venture debt
13:39at great interest they're growing about 30 to 40% year over year so good growth they're not crazy growth but good growth $2,000 CAC eight month payback period obviously both averages Kamil thanks for taking us to the top