How Upekkha Backed 47 B2B SaaS Startups with $100K Checks and Helped 6 Cross $1M ARR (Interview with Managing Partner Prasanna K)

Intro: What Upekkha Does

Nathan Latka

00:00Upekkha. They've backed over 110 or helped over a 110 SaaS companies. They've written checks into 47. They put a $100,000 check-in in exchange for 5% of the business. That company, they can then go raise another equity round, and then they don't have to pay back any capital. Or if they wanna say, you know what? I don't need more money. That founder will then is required to start paying back at one year between three

00:19and five 37% of their monthly revenues, paying back a three x cap on the $100k investment from Upekkha to buy back 4% of the equity. Upekkha will still keep one percent for that long road. Hey, folks. My guest today is Prasana. He's with a group called Upekha based out of Bangalore. They're helping b to b SaaS startups grow faster, and he's a very humble guy from that intro. They're really behind some of the most the fastest

00:38growing startups in India. And India really right now is a hotbed of some of the smartest founders, whether that's Sarvana, the old Netcore crew, the Freshworks crew, you name it. They're in India. Something special is happening. So we're very privileged to have Persona on the show today. Persona, you ready to take us to the top?

Prasanna K

00:55>> Absolutely.

Why India Is Producing Bootstrapped SaaS Founders

Nathan Latka

00:56Alright. What what why why am I seeing SaaS founders coming out of India that they just seem to be all of them are, like, $10,000,000 in revenue bootstrapped. It's like, what's going on in India?

Prasanna K

01:06>> Yeah. I think it's something in the water here. Right? The analogy that I give everybody is that, you know, in 1992, there were 200 IT services companies doing $100,000,000 of exports. And in 2002, there were 8,000 IT services companies doing $12,000,000,000 of IT services exports. So it's the same thing that's happening right now with SaaS. The things that we're good at in India are we have a lot of developers, there are probably a million or more

01:36>> developers just in Bangalore. So if I throw a stone outside, I'm more likely to hit a software developer than a crow. Right? And we know English, so we can make software for folks who are speaking English. Right? And I think the last word in SaaS is service. And so if anybody wants to implement a SaaS product, if they're mid market or an enterprise customer, they need integrations, they need migrations, they need training, they need data transformation,

02:04>> all of that stuff. And most of that stuff, you can't just do it off the shelf, right? There has to be somebody who looks at your data, how that data has to look in the system and figure out how to get it there. Right? So when you put all these things together, you know, it I think and the water, it all starts working.

Nathan Latka

02:24It's amazing. I remember one of our first conversations. I figured it was with you or the the the crew there at Apekha, but it was November 2021. And you guys said, Nathan, you know, we're really targeting 60 startups at a 100 k checks each in 2022. We've now finished 2022. How'd you guys do? How many startups did you help?

2022 Results: Checks Written and Startups Helped

Prasanna K

02:43>> So we worked with about 40 startups, and I think we did a total of 47 or 48 checks.

Nathan Latka

02:50Wow. Okay. A 100 k. And is it always a 100 k?

Prasanna K

02:53>> Yeah.

Nathan Latka

02:54Okay. So walk me through that model. Folks might be listening going, wait. What's the investment model here? Is it like YC? Is it like Indie.vc? What's it like?

The Investment Model Explained

Prasanna K

03:02>> Right. So the $100k is Indie.vc.

Nathan Latka

03:06And so explain some folks who know what that is. Right? So explain what they explain what it'd be.

Prasanna K

03:10>> Sure. Sure. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So what we want is for founders to be in control of their destiny. So we want to make sure that we're able to work with founders, not only founders who are expecting to get a hyperscale kind of an outcome, but we also want to be working with founders who want to be founder forever or want to take a strategic exit. Right? So what that means is we don't want to lock them

03:32>> into chasing funding every eighteen months. We want to make sure that, hey, if you're building a business, if you can get to 5,000,000 and you're cash flow positive and you're making, let's say, 2,000,000 net, then you can return to us at a good multiple. Yeah, it's a great business, right? Yeah. So I literally have one of our first cohort startups. I won't tell you who, but they're at 6,000,000 in ARR and they have 2,500,000 in cash

03:56>> in the bank every year. Right?

Nathan Latka

03:57Incredible.

Prasanna K

03:58>> And they don't want to raise money.

04:01>> They don't wanna get into the rat race, and they're growing 50% year on year.

Nathan Latka

04:06Well, so how do you guys make money? Right? Most most VC firms will say, listen. We're printing a 100 k checks. We need one or two to, return the fund and become a billion dollar company. So when you say the fund, the money you invested, 47 checks at a 100 k up off. So 5,000,000 deployed in 2022 as a BDC. What do you mean by that? What's your return profile?

Portfolio Performance: $1M and $5M ARR Milestones

Prasanna K

04:21>> Right. So what we're so out of the first 10 startups that we worked with, Nathan, we now have six startups over $1,000,000 in ARR. Out of that six, there are three that have crossed a $5,000,000 ARR. Right? So think about this from a fund perspective, right? We are investing in something like a 2,500,000 kind of a valuation. If they get to a 5,000,000, and even in today's time, let's say they're at a five x kind of

04:47>> a multiple, they're at a 25,000,000 valuation. Right? So we have a 10 x in a valuation jump in about 30% of our companies. Mhmm. So that takes care of a lot of the return.

How Upekkha Realizes Returns: Buybacks and Secondaries

Nathan Latka

04:58But the the culturally, these are founders that don't wanna exit. Right? They love cash flow. They're not searching for growth at all costs. So how do you actually turn those paper gains into real yield? Or do you not need to do that because it's a BDC?

Prasanna K

05:12>> Right. So two ways. Right? One is so so we are not like we are not holding that equity forever. If that's the question, right? We do have to return. And the two ways that we return is one, if they are never raising any capital, then they can buy back just like in the Indie.vc model. Right? Number two, we are finding that there are funds now who are coming in and saying, hey, we'll just pick up secondaries

05:35>> from these founders or from us. Right? And they're not looking at a primary infusion or a small primary infusion. And they would love to pick up equity in a SaaS company that's actually profitable and growing.

Nathan Latka

05:47Oh, what's going on there, YouTube? Good to see you guys. Now imagine this. You love watching these interviews with SaaS founders, but imagine if we took all of the valuation data out from over 2,807 interviews I've done manually. Saves you a lot of time. Well, we've done this. We've built it into the beautiful interface inside of Founderpath. Check this out. I'll show you how you can access this in a second, but you log in, you connect

06:10your Stripe account, you see your valuation real time. You can see what it changed over the past eighty eight days and even set goals for valuation this year. Now the secret evaluation is there's many different ways to value a SaaS business. So the reason you're gonna see three or four different valuations inside of your Founderpath dashboard, this is all free by the way, is because depending on who's doing the buying of your SaaS company, you're gonna

06:35get a different valuation. A VC is gonna pay a different valuation. Private equity firm is different. If you're gonna do a minority sale, that's different. And if you sell the whole business, that's a different valuation. You can see all those when I hover over here. Right? So the teal is what a VC would pay. Yellow is what private equity And red is if you sold the whole thing outright. Now what's cool about this is this is

06:57not built off random data. Again, you guys hear these interviews on YouTube. All these datas are built from real time valuation data points founder share with us on the show. So traction 1,200,000 seed round 3.7 raise. They sold 22% of their business. Go in here and filter by the event. Maybe you only wanna see companies that have sold the whole business. Well, here are a bunch that have been acquired the valuation and the multiple. Maybe you're

07:22going out right now and you're raising your seed round. We'll go in here and look at all this recent seed deals that went down, what they raised, what valuation they raised at and what percent that they sold. There's never been a larger dataset of SaaS valuations than what you can get now inside of Founderpath. And we're thrilled to bring it to you. All right. We're gonna go back to the YouTube video here in a second. But

07:44if you wanna check this tool out, if you wanna jump in and sign up, you can check it out for free to get your valuation at this link, this link, founderpath.com/products/valuations. Or if you go to founderpath.com and hover over products, click on get your valuation here, and go ahead and sign up to give it a whirl. Again, all that valuation data live right inside the platform. I hope to see you there. Alright. Let's jump back into

08:11the interview. I mean, are you seeing Sequoia in India, Accel in India? Are they are they approaching you and saying, hey. We'd love to buy out that 5% you own in that $5,000,000 SaaS company?

Prasanna K

08:22>> No. No. Not yet. Right? Because they are more than the traditional model of, hey. Show me a billion dollar TAM. Show me how you can get to a billion dollar IPO and stuff like that. But there are so many search firms and so many PEs and mini PEs in The US who are now like, if it's a SaaS company, they're like throwing an email at it. And all of our founders who cross certain level, they have

08:46>> like an email a week in their inbox saying, hey, can we talk to you?

Buyback Mechanics: Revenue Percentage and Timeline

Nathan Latka

08:50Yep. Yep. Now you mentioned there's two ways to return. Buying a secondary is what you just described. You said, but the first was founders can buy back the equity. Now do they have the option to buy it back or are they forced to buy it back at a certain time level?

Prasanna K

09:03>> Right. So the individual we are using the straight individual term sheet, the exact same thing. Right? So in that, founders, if they do not raise any further capital, they start buying back with a percentage of their revenue every month or every quarter after

Nathan Latka

09:19If they if they don't raise equity in what a period of when, like, when does that buyback have to start? One, you know, one year, two years,

Prasanna K

09:24>> Two years.

Nathan Latka

09:25One year. Yeah.

Prasanna K

09:26>> One one year plus. Right? But it's on a month on month basis. It's not all at once.

Nathan Latka

09:30So so if you wrote a check into nathansaascompanyinc.com today for a 100 k, and I grow to a million dollar run rate in a year, I am forced once I hit a year, I am forced at a year to start paying and buying back Upekkha equity.

Prasanna K

09:47>> Correct.

Nathan Latka

09:47At at what most portion of your revenue.

Prasanna K

09:50>> Three x.

Nathan Latka

09:52Okay. So if you put in a 100 k check for you said 5% is pretty typical?

Prasanna K

09:57>> Yeah.

Nathan Latka

09:58Can I buy back? Am I forced to buy back your entire 5% portion or do you hold one Okay. Yeah. So it's the same model. It's the same model as Indie.vc. The reason I'm asking is there's a reason Indie.vc shut down.

Prasanna K

10:11>> Yeah. Yeah. Of course.

Nathan Latka

10:13I'm trying to see if you've made edits on the model that you think will be more sustainable for both investors and the founders because one of the big negatives was that founders don't wanna pay back $300,000 on a $100,000 investment starting and they're forced to do it starting at one year. Have you built anything into your contracts to give founders more more flexibility, more control?

Prasanna K

10:33>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We we are looking at doing that. Right? So we do want to give founders more optionality in terms of choosing to do that buyback. Mhmm. Right? So if we can delay the payments, we can prorate the payments, do stuff like that.

Nathan Latka

10:46Is there ever a world where you wouldn't force the founders to pay it back? Because I mean, this is effectively, in my opinion, really expensive debt. Right? It's a $100,000 up front, and then you're gonna make 300,000 on it over a three year period. That's pretty darn expensive when you do an effective interest rate.

Prasanna K

11:02>> Sure. But when they're coming to us, they're not coming to us at the level that you are getting them in, which is at a 20 k MRR out of 50 k MRR. They're coming to us at practically no revenue. Right? Yep. So when they're coming to us at no revenue, then equity is the only risk capital that they can get because they can't get debt cap debt capital that you provide because they don't have any revenue

11:22>> yet. Yep. Right? So then what what choice is there? Right? Because we are also taking a risk because as you well know, for somebody to go from a 10 ks MRR to a 30 ks MRR is a different risk profile. For somebody to go from a 30 ks MRR to a 80 ks MRR is a different risk profile. For somebody to go from a one k MRR to a 30 ks MRR is a very, very, very

11:43>> different profile, right? Yeah. So we are on the early end of that risk profile. I think you are a little later on the end, a little bit ahead of us on the risk profile. So we'd love for our startups to then come to you and say, hey, you look, we now have revenue, we now have customers, the revenue is good quality, we have good margins. Can we take more money from you, right? Because many of our

12:03>> colleagues don't equity. Get

Nathan Latka

12:04That's the problem, right? We're boring. We're boring non dilutive debt, right? You will always have 1% equity no matter what, but I get your point. You're coming in much earlier than we are. There's more risk for you. So I understand that.

Prasanna K

12:16>> Right. And we also do a lot of handholding in terms of getting them their first customers. We're working with them to change their positioning, change their website, change how they talk to customers.

Nathan Latka

12:26We literally Well, you have an incredible community too. I mean, you look at who's on stage at SaaSBoomi. You look at your website and the partners you're bringing in. You have really an incredible network you've built around these founders, which is what helps them get to a million, 3,000,000, 5,000,000 in ARR. That's right. What is the percent of monthly revenues that they have to start paying back after year one?

Prasanna K

12:47>> Right. So that's between five to 7%.

Nathan Latka

12:49Between 57% per month? That's right. Until a three x cap is paid back?

Prasanna K

12:54>> Yes.

Nathan Latka

12:55Okay. What if that takes a founder twenty years? Like, does it is it all due at some point, or could it take them twenty years?

Prasanna K

13:00>> No. Yeah. It's it's okay.

Nathan Latka

13:03I see. Okay. So there's no recourse. In other words, if a company goes bankrupt or they can't pay you, there's no way you just keep your 5% equity.

Prasanna K

13:10>> Yeah. Well, there's not nothing.

Nathan Latka

13:11You just keep your equity.

Prasanna K

13:13>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's no recourse is what I meant.

Comparison to Indie.vc and Model Differences

Prasanna K

13:16>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just it's find it fascinating because that's reversed whatever everyone you know, everyone else says it double, triple down your winners. But your winners, you're forcing them to pay you back. So it's jamming down your equity, and that's where your big returns are gonna come from.

Nathan Latka

13:28You're okay with that, though?

Prasanna K

13:30>> I think you're modeling this as a single turn game versus we model it as a multi turn game. So what happens is that in our winners, right, they're typically raising more capital, so it gets converted into equity.

Nathan Latka

13:45Does that make sense?

Prasanna K

13:46>> In our Somebody who's

Nathan Latka

13:48somebody who's winning in your portfolio has the cash flows per month to pay you back, And they can pay 300 k, three x cap to buy back 4%

Prasanna K

13:57>> essentially is raise more capital. Right? Because the folks who are really growing way beyond expectation. Right? They actually want to raise some capital. And when they raise capital, we stay on as equity.

Nathan Latka

14:12Did that make sense?

Prasanna K

14:13>> So so you the top 1% of all companies.

Nathan Latka

14:16So you delete the you delete the you delete the part of your initial contract that says they have to start paying you back at one year if they go raise a bunch of equity?

Prasanna K

14:25>> That's right. It's in it's the same. Indie.vc has the same model, actually.

Nathan Latka

14:29Well, again, but Indie.vc is dead.

Prasanna K

14:31>> They raise capital.

Nathan Latka

14:32There's a reason there there's a reason why I shouldn't be

Prasanna K

14:34>> But I should be restarting.

Nathan Latka

14:36Well, in a very in a in a a pretty different format. Right? If you and and if you if you interview some of the LPs in that fund and you interview some of the founders, there just was not alignment there. I just wanna make sure I understand you correctly, though. If somebody raises money from you today and they grow to a million dollar a year run rate in a year, they go raise a bunch of equity,

14:52they are forced to keep your 5%. They but is that your choice or their choice? Because it are they forced to keep your 5% equity?

Prasanna K

15:02>> Yes.

Nathan Latka

15:03Oh, they can't pay you that?

Prasanna K

15:04>> Like if there is a convertible debt for 100 k.

Nathan Latka

15:06That's why. Oh, I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. Interesting. Very interesting. Okay. And these are all b two b SaaS.

Prasanna K

15:12>> Right? Think of the top 2%. Yeah. They're only b two b SaaS. Right? So think of the top 2% of companies. They're going to get hit a million and then raise 2,000,000 or 3,000,000 or whatever it is. Right? And so those folks will we will stay as equity.

Nathan Latka

15:26Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. You're you're either staying as equity if they decide to raise, or if they don't raise, they're forced to start paying you back after one year of three to five three to 7% of their monthly revenues. That's Interesting. So, I mean, so so I mean, I I thought you guys were really representing that founder that wants to bootstrap and not raise. Right, not give up equity and go to 5,000,000 in revenue and profit 2,000,000

Prasanna K

15:50>> a year and build a great business.

Nathan Latka

15:51That sounds to me that, like, that that's that kind of founder would not be a good fit for you because they'd be forced to either raise money to get rid of the payback, or they'd be forced to start paying you back at at one year.

Prasanna K

16:02>> I mean, if you're taking money, I'm I'm I'm assuming, Nathan, that when you give money out to people, you want a return to. The terms are the terms. Right? So

16:13>> we are saying Well, no.

Nathan Latka

16:14We get no equity. We take no equity. Right? Our whole our whole our whole model is we wanna support founders that understand that giving up equity can be a very a big detriment to the business for a variety of ways.

Prasanna K

16:25>> Right. Right. And if you talk to any of our founders and if even a single one of our founders tells you that giving equity to Upekha and having Upekha as a partner in their long term journey was not a good thing, then, you know, we'd change our terms. But that's not the case. The kind of support that we are providing to our founders, they can't get anywhere in India and maybe not even anywhere in The US.

16:47>> Right? Mhmm. Because we are taking founders who have sold only in India, who never even gone outside of India. We are helping them build a business that's global and get revenue that's global. So many of them, it's literally we are a partner who's helping them do things that they cannot do before. We're not dumb money, right? We're literally handholding them to change their website, the language on their website to sound more global, for example. Right? So

17:10>> those are the kind of things which I believe. Right? And, you know, you you can correct me if you think otherwise. We're literally changing the DNA of the business. Right? So we have folks who have India revenue but have struggled to get global revenue, and we are helping them make that first dollar of global revenue. Is that worth the equity or is that not worth the equity? Right? I think that's the question that founders need to

17:31>> ask themselves. Right? So I have folks who have built services business. They've tried to build product businesses and they've struggled to build product businesses because when you're trying to build a product business, you need to make different decisions than when you're building a services business. And so somebody has to literally sit with them and tell them, look, this is how you're making decisions and this decision was okay in a services business, but this decision is not

17:54>> okay in a product business and you need to rethink how you do that. You may have made the wrong hire because the person you hired as a developer in a services business that was okay, but the same person is functioning in a product business in a way that will is detrimental to the long term health of that product business, right? So that's the granularity at which we work with founders and to transform their business, right?

Nathan Latka

18:14So when I'm helping Now you're you sound much more like a venture studio. I mean, when when I bring on folks that are building venture studios like Turtles, which popped out with Phil Libin. I mean, you sound way more like a studio than you do a VC fund.

Why Upekkha Is More Like a Venture Studio

Prasanna K

18:28>> Right. So we we spend literally, you know, dozens to almost a hundred hours per founder from our from me and my team. Right? To help them cross that kind of an initial

Timeline: First Check in 2021, Accelerator History

Nathan Latka

18:43And when was just put this on a timeline for us because folks might be new they might be learning about you for the first time here on the show. When did you guys write your first check? What year?

Prasanna K

18:53>> Just one and a half years ago. So 2021 is when we wrote our first check.

Nathan Latka

18:57Okay. 2021.

Prasanna K

18:57>> Before that, we were only an accelerator. We were only helping folks with actually building the business. So only once we proved out that we could help folks to build a business without any capital, we said some of the startups need some capital at the early stage because otherwise everybody is working on fumes because they're going getting some revenue coming back spending it, going getting some revenue coming back spending it. Then we decided to add a layer

19:20>> of capital after we proved that yes, we can take startups that are at near zero, help them get to scale, right? So as an example, right, one of the startups that came to us, they were at literally $1,500 MRR, 2,000 MRR. Today, they're at $60,000 MRR. Right? And if you talk to them, their website, their copy, their emails, their marketing strategies, their positioning, what features are in the product, what they're selling, the values, all of that

19:48>> was stuff that they worked with us.

Nathan Latka

19:51That makes sense. I understand. So the first check was in 2021. You already told us numbers from 2022. What are you what are you guys targeting in 2023?

2023 Targets and Global Focus

Prasanna K

20:01>> This year, we are hoping to write about 60 checks.

Nathan Latka

20:03Okay. 60 checks. Interesting. And all still India focused?

Prasanna K

20:08>> So almost all our startups are selling globally. They may be headquartered in Delaware or they may be hot headquartered in India, but most of them are actually Delaware headquarters with subsidiaries in India.

Nathan Latka

20:18Okay. Great. And and remind us again, sorry, you're guys a source of capital. Obviously, you and I both have to raise money to then give out to founders. Right? Where are you raising money from?

LP Base: WestBridge and SaaS Founders

Prasanna K

20:28>> So most of our investors are actually SaaS founders.

Nathan Latka

20:31Yep. Yep. Yep.

Prasanna K

20:32>> Have one large anchor LP called WestBridge.

Nathan Latka

20:35Okay. Very cool. Are you Are you did you raise a new fund last year? Are you still operating out of fund one from back in 2021?

Prasanna K

20:43>> This is a rolling fund.

Nathan Latka

20:44Ah, okay.

Prasanna K

20:45>> This is an angel is rolling fund. So that's the model that we're still on.

Nathan Latka

20:49And how do you how do you those investors, how do you pay them out? Is it a fixed, like, payment every three months, or do they wait until like, it's like DPI, like a regular VC firm. Yeah. They wait for exits. Yeah. Okay. So they don't get any like, when founders have to start paying you back at one year, you don't distribute any of that money back to to

Prasanna K

21:06>> We can, but we don't need to.

Nathan Latka

21:08Oh, I see. So you can reinvest into new checks. The 60 you wanna do this year?

Prasanna K

21:11>> That's right.

Nathan Latka

21:12I see. I see. Any exits so far?

Exits and Top Portfolio Companies

Prasanna K

21:15>> We've had four exits so far. Most of them have been strategic acquirers, not too large.

Nathan Latka

21:21Okay. Okay. But you're you've got a couple you're excited about that you think can more than return the fund.

Prasanna K

21:27>> Think so. Because one of them just doubled last year with very little capital raise. Actually, three of them like I said, right, three of them crossed $5,000,000 Yep. In ARR. Out of that, two of them have not raised a single dollar. We are the only only outside equity holder. Right? So we have another

Nathan Latka

21:43I'm sorry. Three out of how many how many many total com portfolio companies today?

Prasanna K

21:48>> So we have a total of 110 companies, but I would only look at the first 20 companies because that's the ones that have been around for three years. Right? Because the others are like, last year and year. Yeah.

Nathan Latka

21:58But you've written checks into a 110 companies since you started SaaS companies?

Prasanna K

22:02>> No. No. That's the accelerator.

Nathan Latka

22:04Okay. How many have you written a 100 check into?

Prasanna K

22:07>> About 47.

Nathan Latka

22:0847. Okay. Interesting. Interesting. Well, we're rooting for you, Prasanna. If people wanna learn more about this, where can they find you?

Where to Find Upekkha and Upcoming Events

Prasanna K

22:15>> Upekkha.io, and I'm very active on LinkedIn and Twitter.

Nathan Latka

22:19Guys, that's u p e k k h a dot io. And, Prasanna, what are the next two events you're going to if people wanna meet you in person?

Prasanna K

22:27>> We'll be doing our own events. So we'll be putting that on Twitter. I'll also be at SaaSBoomi in March.

Nathan Latka

22:33SaaSBoomi in March. And what city is that in?

Prasanna K

22:37>> That's in Chennai.

Nathan Latka

22:38Chennai. Guys, there we have it. Upekkha. They've backed over 110 or helped over a 110 SaaS companies. They've written checks into 47. They put a $100,000 check-in in exchange for 5% of the business. That company, they they can then go raise another equity round, and then they don't have to pay back any capital. Or if they wanna say, know what? I don't need more money. That founder will then is required to start paying back

22:57at one year between five and 7% of their monthly revenues, paying back a three x cap on a $100k investment from Upekkha to buy back 4% of the equity. Apekha will still keep one for that long road with the founder. Persona, thanks for taking us to the top.

Prasanna K

23:11>> Thanks, Nathan.

Nathan Latka

23:13One more thing before you go. We have a brand new show every Thursday at 1PM central. It's called Shark Tank for SaaS. We call it deal or bust. One founder comes on, three hungry buyers, they try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards, their expenses, their revenue, ARPU, CAC, LTV, you name it, they share it and the buyers try and make a deal live. It is fun to watch every Thursday 1PM

23:38Central. Additionally, remember these recorded founder interviews go live. We release them here on YouTube every day at 2PM Central. To make sure you don't miss any of that, make sure you click the subscribe button below here on YouTube, the big red button and then click the little bell notification to make sure you get notifications when we do go live. I wouldn't want you to miss breaking news in the SaaS world, whether it's an acquisition, a big

24:00fundraise, a big sale, a big profitability statement or else. I don't want you to miss it. Additionally, if you want to take this conversation deeper and further, we have by far the largest private Slack community for B2B SaaS founders. You want to get in there. We've probably talked about your tool if you're running a company or your firm if you're investing. You can go in there and quickly search and see what people are saying. Sign up

24:22for that at nathanlatka.com/slack. In the meantime, I'm hanging out with you here on YouTube. I'll be in the comments for the next thirty minutes. Feel free to let me know what you thought about this episode. And if you enjoyed it, click the thumbs up. We get a lot of haters that are mad at how aggressive I am on these shows, but I do it so that we can all learn. We have to counter those people. We

24:41got to push them away. Click the thumbs up below to counter them and know that I appreciate your guys'support. Alright, I'll be in the comments. See you.