Founder Interview
How Amilia Bootstrapped to $7M in Revenue and 1,000 Customers (Interview with Founder François Gaouette)
- Interview Date
- December 16, 2020
- Interviewee
- François GaouetteFounder and CEO
Company Metrics at Interview Time
Projected Full-Year Revenue (2020)
About $8M
Revenue (2019)
$7M
Customers (2020)
1,000
Team Size (2020)
85
Historical Snapshot
These numbers were reported by François Gaouette during the interview recorded in December 2020 and are a historical snapshot, not current figures. See Amilia’s current numbers.
Key Takeaways
- 01Amilia projected approximately $8M in full-year 2020 revenue, up from $7M in 2019
- 02The company serves 1,000 organizations across North America as of 2020
- 03Average revenue per customer is about $10,000 per year, driven primarily by transaction and payment fees
- 04Gross churn is under 8% on the Amilia product and under 1% on the SmartRec product
- 05CAC is $8,000 with a payback period of 14 months for Amilia and 16 months for SmartRec
- 06Gross margin is about 55% to 60% overall, with 80% on the software component
- 07The team has 85 people including 35 engineers and 3 quota-carrying sales reps
- 08Organizations that adopt Amilia typically increase their own revenue by 20%
- 09The company burned approximately $12M Canadian over ten years, funded by the founder and friends
- 10Amilia started about ten years before the interview and made roughly $100,000 in revenue in its first year
Company Metrics at Time of Interview
| Metric | Value | Source |
|---|---|---|
| Projected Full-Year Revenue (2020) | About $8M | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| Revenue (2019) | $7M | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| Revenue (first year) (2010) | $100,000 | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| Customers (2020) | 1,000 | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| ARPU (gross, including payment fees) (2020) | About $10,000 per year | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| CAC (2020) | $8,000 | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| CAC Payback (Amilia product) (2020) | 14 months | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| CAC Payback (SmartRec product) (2020) | 16 months | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| Gross Churn (Amilia product, worldwide) (2020) | Under 8% | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| Gross Churn (SmartRec product) (2020) | Under 1% | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| Gross Margin (overall) (2020) | About 55% to 60% | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| Gross Margin (software) (2020) | 80% | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| Historical Growth Rate (years before 2020) | 30% to 40% per year | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| Team Size (2020) | 85 | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| Engineers (2020) | 35 | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| Sales Reps (2020) | 3 | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| Products (2020) | 2 | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| Pricing (Amilia product) (2020) | $99 per month plus 1% of every transaction and card processing fees | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| Customer Outcome (revenue increase after adoption) (2020) | 20% | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
| Capital Burned Over Ten Years (founder and friends' money, as of 2020) | $12M CAD | Founder interview, Dec 2020 |
Growth Breakdown
Revenue
Amilia generated $7M in revenue in 2019 and was on track for approximately $8M in full-year 2020, though COVID reduced what would have been a higher run rate. Revenue comes from three streams: a SaaS subscription fee, a 1% take on GMV processed through the platform, and payment processing fees. Most of the money is transactional, and one third of revenue comes from payments.
Customers
The platform served 1,000 organizations as of 2020, spanning park and recreation departments, dance studios, after-school programs, cheerleading clubs, and other activity-based organizations across North America. The founder estimates the total addressable market in the US alone is approximately half a million such organizations.
Team
Amilia had 85 employees at the time of the interview, including 35 engineers and 3 quota-carrying sales reps. The sales setup was new: an outbound team went after park and rec organizations, and an inbound team sold to dance studios and after-school programs.
Funding and Profitability
The company was built over ten years primarily on approximately $12M Canadian from the founder and his personal network, with no outside institutional capital raised as of the interview. Gross margin stood at about 55% to 60% overall and 80% on the software component, and the founder described plans to raise a significant round in 2021 to accelerate growth.
Growth Strategy
Transactional Business Model Aligned with Customer Success
Rather than charging a large flat fee, Amilia earns most of its revenue as a percentage of transactions processed through the platform. This means the company's revenue grows automatically as its customers grow, and it creates a built-in incentive for Amilia to help organizations increase their own activity volume.
Horizontal Platform Across Activity Verticals
Instead of targeting a single vertical such as gymnastics or dance, Amilia built a generic ecommerce platform that works across more than 20 activity types. This breadth allowed the company to grow steadily across a fragmented market without being limited to one niche.
Cold Outreach for Park and Rec Segment
The SmartRec product, aimed at larger park and recreation organizations, is sold through an outbound sales team using cold outreach. These organizations prefer predictable monthly subscription pricing over variable transaction fees, so Amilia converts their expected GMV into a fixed monthly fee.
Inbound Demand for Smaller Organizations
Smaller organizations such as dance studios and after-school programs come in through inbound channels. A separate inbound team sells to them, and the product is a pure multi-tenant SaaS platform that, in the founder's words, you don't need to be a technical person to run.
Expansion Revenue Through Transaction Growth
Because Amilia's revenue is tied to the volume of transactions its customers process, the company benefits from natural expansion as existing customers grow. The founder noted that organizations typically increase their own revenue by 20% after adopting the platform, which flows directly into Amilia's take-rate revenue without additional sales effort.
Best Quotes
“Ten years ago, I started a company with a vision that I needed to bring ecommerce to activity based organization. In my mind, it made no sense that can... I could not find and buy a swim class at the corner of the street, and can get everything shipped to my daughter from Amazon.”
“2019, we did around 7,000,000 of revenue. ... This year, we were on a run rate of 12, but because of COVID, we'll be around eight. ... So we're grown historically 30 to 40%.”
“On the Amilia, churn is less than 8% worldwide. ... Because my model is transactional ... My customer every year does more activity. They increase their revenue. Typically, an organization, when they put in Amilia, they increase their revenue by 20%.”
“It's bootstrapped from my money and my friends. So over ten years, it's... We've burned 12,000,000 Canadian over ten years from me and my friends, mostly to build the technology”
What Happened Next
At the time of this December 2020 interview, Amilia served 1,000 organizations and expected about $8M in revenue for the full year, with the founder planning to be in the market in 2021 raising a significant amount of money. The figures on this page reflect what François Gaouette reported during the conversation and are a point-in-time snapshot. Visit the Amilia company profile on GetLatka for current metrics and any updates since this recording.
View Amilia’s current profile and metricsFull Transcript
Chapters
- 0:00Host Introduction and Company Overview
- 0:22The Ecommerce Vision for Activity Organizations
- 1:16Naming Customers and Market Description
- 1:39How the SaaS Platform Works
- 3:00Pricing Model and Revenue per Customer
- 4:00GMV Volume and Customer Count
- 4:582019 and 2020 Revenue and Growth Rate
- 6:30Payment Processing as a Revenue Stream
- 7:55Bootstrapping and Capital Burned
- 10:15Team Size, Engineers, and Sales Reps
- 11:30Churn and Expansion Revenue
- 12:22CAC, Gross Margin, and Payback Period
- 13:10Famous Five: Books, Tools, and Personal Background
- 14:29From VC to Entrepreneur: The Founder's Story
Host Introduction and Company Overview
Nathan Latka
00:00Hello, everyone. My guest today is François Gaouette. He's the founder and CEO of a company called Amilia, one of Quebec's fastest growing tech companies. They provide the first activity based ecommerce SaaS solutions for organizations all over North America. And he's made it his mission to help administrators streamline their day to day tasks to a focus on growth and prosperity. François, you ready to take us to the top?
François Gaouette
00:21Yeah. Absolutely.
The Ecommerce Vision for Activity Organizations
Nathan Latka
00:22Okay. So it sounds like you're playing in a very hot ecommerce space. Is that correct?
François Gaouette
00:26Absolutely. Timing cannot be better. Ten years ago, I started a company with a vision that I needed to bring ecommerce to activity based organization. In my mind, it made no sense that can... I could not find and buy a swim class at the corner of of the street, and can get everything shipped to my daughter from Amazon. So I said to myself, the market is going to be no different for those swim organization or organization or
00:54YMCA. It's... It will... They will go through the same thing as retailer went. People will expect to buy from those organization like they buy from Amazon. And that's the bet I made ten years ago. Probably that's much more difficult to build a ecommerce platform for those organization that is to do it for traditional ecommerce.
Naming Customers and Market Description
Nathan Latka
01:16Can you name some of your customers?
François Gaouette
01:18So we have couple of town in The US, Grapevine. We're in town, if Erie, and Colorado. We have... It's it's a it's a huge mark... Fragmented market of a a very small organization because they're very local.
Nathan Latka
01:18Mhmm.
François Gaouette
01:18So I do have a varsity cheerleading club in The US.
How the SaaS Platform Works
Nathan Latka
01:39So Frank François, tell us about that. How's the Varsity cheerleading club that has no engineers use your no code solution for their for their team?
François Gaouette
01:47Well, it's very simple. It's basically, it's a pure SaaS multi tenant platform. Very easy to use like any other software out there. Right now, you can go online and get a lot of SaaS application, and you don't need to be a technical person to run it. So what we do is the is the similar thing as think think Shopify, but for an activity, which I think is much more complex than
Nathan Latka
02:09Shopify for what?
François Gaouette
02:10Oh, an activity.
Nathan Latka
02:12Activities.
François Gaouette
02:13Okay. So if you're a a a a cheerleading club, so your business is selling a cheerleading class maybe for girls of eight years old, level one, and right now, the only way you're selling it, it's true, either you have to show up in person, you show... You need to fill in a form at the counter, or you do it over the phone. And if they're really, really sophisticated, there might be a form on their their website
02:40with with some payment attached to it.
Nathan Latka
02:40Yep.
François Gaouette
02:40Okay? So we take that, that market of activity that is not visible, because it's tend to be very small in in... But everybody participates in the community. You're probably doing activities. It's either participating in sport, taking enrichment class. You're doing a bunch of stuff in your community.
Pricing Model and Revenue per Customer
Nathan Latka
03:00Yeah. So I so I understand the product now, François. Help help me understand how people pay you. What does the average customer pay you per month?
François Gaouette
03:06It's a transactional business model, so it's driven by the transaction. Most of those organizations tend to be a season based, so they will have couple of registration period during a a a... The year. So the... On the... There's... The platform has split into product. One is Amilia, which is the club, the organization... The the software. Typically, they pay they pay me $99 per month, 1% of every transaction, plus 3% of credit card. So
Nathan Latka
03:06Okay.
François Gaouette
03:06Most of
03:38the money I made is transactional. Typically, I do about... I generate about 10,000 a year with a club, but it goes through fees. It could be $99, $99 registration period. They give me $3,000. So it's aligned with their their capacity to pay, meaning they collect money, and that's where my... I make most of the money.
GMV Volume and Customer Count
Nathan Latka
04:00I understand. And over the past twelve months, how much GMV has gone through your platform?
François Gaouette
04:06Well, unfortunately, with the plat... With with the the the COVID, it's probably around 200,000,000, but on the run rate of 350,000,000. So it it adds very a lot. But we're at a we're at a run rate of 250,000,000
Nathan Latka
04:06Yeah.
François Gaouette
04:06Across a thousand organization.
04:26And just to give you the number of potential organization in The US, it's half a million. There's half a million of park and rec, GCC, YMCA, community center, gymnastic, cheer, dance. We've built something very generic, horizontal generic ecommerce platform.
Nathan Latka
04:43So, François, sorry. Just to make sure I understand this, you've got a thousand customers that have processed over $350,000,000 of GMV or that... At that's your run rate, but around 300,000,000 this year in 2020. On that... Just that GMV, you take 1%. So there's 3,500,000 revenue right there. Correct?
François Gaouette
04:57Absolutely.
2019 and 2020 Revenue and Growth Rate
Nathan Latka
04:58And what was that
04:59last year in 2019?
François Gaouette
05:02Well, 2019... Okay. So 2019, we did around 7,000,000 of revenue.
Nathan Latka
05:02K.
François Gaouette
05:02This year, we were on a run rate of 12, but because of COVID, we'll be around eight.
Nathan Latka
05:02Okay.
François Gaouette
05:02So we're grown historically 30 to 40%.
Nathan Latka
05:02Yep.
05:19Of COVID What was the GMV though last year? So this year, you're... You did 300,000,000. What... How much last year?
François Gaouette
05:24It's probably $2,250.
Nathan Latka
05:27$250,000,000 in GMV. Okay. Interesting. So... There... So you really don't make a lot of money on the flat fees. You're really making most of your money on the percent subscribe, you know, transaction.
François Gaouette
05:368030% of my business is transaction, except when I move on the other side of the the the second product, which is the SmartRec product. This is for park and rec organization because they are big. They don't like variable, and they are capable of paying. So that's more traditional subscription side of the business. We convert it into a a monthly. So let's say they... A park and rec does 1,000,000 a year, we'll say, okay, that's 10,000, the 1%
06:06is 10,000. For us, senator, a thousand bucks a month because you're a large organization, that's 22,000 a year. That's So
Nathan Latka
06:15François, just to be clear. So last year in 2019, if you did $250,000,000 in GMV at your 1% take rate, that's 2,500,000 in revenue there out of your total 7,000,000 in revenue. So there's still 4,500,000 coming from just the subscription business itself. Correct?
Payment Processing as a Revenue Stream
François Gaouette
06:30And the payment side. You're missing the payment side.
Nathan Latka
06:30Tell me about that.
François Gaouette
06:30So because our world is a very complex payment, it needs complex payment. Traditional e commerce is simple. It's a credit card at the checkout you're done. In my world, there's a lot of installment subscription. There's even pay me later, pay me at the counter. There's a bunch of... So we've built Amilia on top of an Amilia play... Amilia payment platform. So it's deeply integrated
06:58into the platform. One third of my revenue comes from payment.
Nathan Latka
07:03I see. Okay. So it's about... So what? It's about 2,500,000 from the GMV model, 3,000,000 from payments, and the rest is pure SaaS?
François Gaouette
07:11Yeah. Something around that.
Nathan Latka
07:12Interesting. How do you bill for the payments? Is that business? Is that a flat rate?
François Gaouette
07:17The payment is really transactional also. So basically, a typical customer comes to Amilia, they buy the platform, and they... And then we tell them to do a credit card, it's 2.85 plus 30¢.
Nathan Latka
07:17Mhmm.
François Gaouette
07:17And we bill them to... We we we we front everything. We have a partner, payment processor partner in the back where we pay a bulk rate. So it's very sub... It's very similar to a Shopify payment.
Nathan Latka
07:17I see. Interesting.
François Gaouette
07:17And we make it
07:43very, very simple for those organization to become an ecommerce merchant, start selling their activity online, collect payment, and that's that's that's the
Bootstrapping and Capital Burned
Nathan Latka
07:55That's great. Now have you done all this bootstrapped, or did you raise capital?
François Gaouette
07:59It's... Well, it's bootstrapped from my money and my friends. So over ten years, it's... We've we've we've we've burned 12,000,000 Canadian over ten years from me and my friends, mostly to build the technology, because this is very important. We we went at it from a horizontal plane. So if you if you look at by market, it's highly local. Okay? It's it's a swim club. It's
08:28YMCA. It's a language school. So I wanted to be able to serve the community, not only a vertical, not just do gymnastic or cheerleading or dance. I wanted to do generic platforms. So along the... Those ten years, this is what I've demonstrated, my ability to have a bunch of different organization running on my platform. And It's feasible because an activity is generic. A class is a class.
Nathan Latka
08:52Yep. Back in 2010 when you founded the company, do you remember how much revenue you did that first year?
François Gaouette
08:58Probably a 100,000.
Nathan Latka
08:59100,000. Okay. How did you get your first customer? Do you remember?
François Gaouette
09:03We got offers for customers with couple of
09:08really big sports center here that were really looking to
Nathan Latka
09:14In Montreal.
François Gaouette
09:15In Montreal.
Nathan Latka
09:16Yeah. The first five years or something.
François Gaouette
09:18Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So the first five year was about building it and proving it in Montreal. Then we started in in Canada, and we're in The US for the last three years.
Nathan Latka
09:18But mostly, you've not invested a lot of money in in sales and marketing.
09:35Much did you invest in the in the technology before your first dollar of revenue? Do you remember?
François Gaouette
09:41Not much.
Nathan Latka
09:41Under the brand?
François Gaouette
09:41Yeah. Not much. We're able to, because of that, to start the business slowly but surely.
Nathan Latka
09:41Yep.
François Gaouette
09:41It's a it's a it's a forgotten market. It's a very slow technology adoption market. There's no company funded in that space.
Nathan Latka
09:41Mhmm.
François Gaouette
09:41Nobody is going after them. It's a it's a... It was possible to build that over ten years because nobody is going after it. Funny thing now is that people are realizing there's there's a
10:08lot of money. There's probably $500,000,000,000 spent on activity in The US.
Nathan Latka
10:08Mhmm.
François Gaouette
10:08But nobody is taking care of that market.
Team Size, Engineers, and Sales Reps
Nathan Latka
10:15So where...... Advantage of that market, François. What's your team size look like today? How many people?
François Gaouette
10:2085.
Nathan Latka
10:21And how many engineers?
François Gaouette
10:2235.
Nathan Latka
10:2330... Wow. Okay. How many quota carrying sales reps?
François Gaouette
10:23Three.
Nathan Latka
10:23Three. Okay. Interesting. How do you set their quota?
François Gaouette
10:31It's kind of new.
Nathan Latka
10:31Okay.
François Gaouette
10:31It's kind of new. So we've got... Because we've got the the outbound team going after the park and rec organization, and we've got an inbound inbound team selling to dance studio and after school program and stuff that... It's inbound generated. So we're really at that stage. Now we've proven our product market fit across 20 plus vertical. Now we're at a stage, okay. Let's let's let's let's get that market.
Nathan Latka
10:31Yep.
François Gaouette
10:31So I'll
11:03be in the market in 2021 raising significant amount of money to just... My metrics are crazy. So on the Amilia side
Nathan Latka
11:10How much do you want... How much do you have to raise next year?
François Gaouette
11:12$2,020,000,000.
Nathan Latka
11:13On what valuation?
François Gaouette
11:14No clue.
Nathan Latka
11:15What's your best... What's your guess? 100,000,000?
François Gaouette
11:18100,000,000 plus.
Nathan Latka
11:18Yep. Yep.
François Gaouette
11:18To just give you an example, on the Amilia product, lifetime value to CAC is around six times. On my SmartRec product
Churn and Expansion Revenue
Nathan Latka
11:30Well, break that down for me real quick. What what is churn?
François Gaouette
11:34On the Amilia, churn is less than 8% worldwide.
Nathan Latka
11:34Yeah.
François Gaouette
11:34And it's a built in, and there's a built in net dollar churn in it. Because my model is transactional
Nathan Latka
11:34Yep.
François Gaouette
11:34My customer every year does more activity. They increase their revenue. Typically, an organization, when they put in Amilia, they increase their revenue by 20%.
Nathan Latka
11:34Yep. Interesting.
François Gaouette
11:34And on the SmartRec product, less than 1%. There's no churn in my business
Nathan Latka
11:34Mhmm.
François Gaouette
11:34Which is make it very interesting.
Nathan Latka
12:06Yep. Yep. Well, do you have... You're able to drive expansion revenue. Right? Because you just get them to bill more through you and you make money on the on the transaction.
François Gaouette
12:15Absolutely. So it's built in in my business model.
Nathan Latka
12:15Yeah.
François Gaouette
12:15That being said, we can extend more revenue, but that's where they... Where focus is at acquisition.
CAC, Gross Margin, and Payback Period
Nathan Latka
12:22Yeah. So what do spend what do you spend to get a new customer that pays you 10,000 a year?
François Gaouette
12:27$8,000.
Nathan Latka
12:28Okay. So eight month payback something or seven month payback something like
François Gaouette
12:31You've gotta... The the ten thousand is is gross because the payment side... So think about it. I make about 55 to 60 net overall. 80% on software, 32% on growth. So think about... So 10,000... I make some
Nathan Latka
12:45Six month. Six month payback.
François Gaouette
12:47No. More. A bit longer than that because my... Well, the... I look at it after after my gross revenue.
Nathan Latka
12:55Oh, I see. I see. I see. Okay.
12:56Got it. But So
12:57what is your payback period? How many months would you say?
François Gaouette
13:01On the Amilia side, fourteen.
Nathan Latka
13:03Okay.
François Gaouette
13:03On the SmartRec side, sixteen.
Nathan Latka
13:05That's great. Very cool.
François Gaouette
13:07But there's no there's no churn.
Nathan Latka
13:07Mhmm. Mhmm.
Famous Five: Books, Tools, and Personal Background
Nathan Latka
13:10That's great. Well, hey, listen, you're building a great business. You're in this, what I call the SaaS plus space, multiple business models all working together. You're getting the benefits of that. Let's wrap up here with the famous five. Number one, favorite business book.
François Gaouette
13:24Favorite business book. Oh, you catch me me right there. I'm not a big reader of business book.
13:32The last one I... The the... I read is the future is closer than than you think. It could be seen as a business book or not.
Nathan Latka
13:40Of course.
François Gaouette
13:40That's a good one.
Nathan Latka
13:41Number number two, is there a CEO you're following or studying?
François Gaouette
13:47No. Jeez. This is kind of weird.
Nathan Latka
13:50No problem.
13:51Number three, what's your favorite online tool for building a business?
François Gaouette
13:56Well, probably Slack because it's the way we connect and have a lot of fun in the company.
Nathan Latka
14:02And François, number four, how many hours of sleep do you get every night?
François Gaouette
14:06I'm a good sleeper. I sleep at eight.
Nathan Latka
14:10Okay.
François Gaouette
14:10And I sleep and I sleep very well.
Nathan Latka
14:13And what's your situation? Married, single, kids?
François Gaouette
14:17Divorced, but almost remarried.
Nathan Latka
14:19Okay.
François Gaouette
14:20Two kids two kids of mine and two from my my my my my my
Nathan Latka
14:20And how old are you?
François Gaouette
14:20Wife now. 53.
Nathan Latka
14:2853.
From VC to Entrepreneur: The Founder's Story
Nathan Latka
14:29Last question. What's something you wish you knew when you were 20?
François Gaouette
14:33That I can be an entrepreneur. It kind of evident that I could be an entrepreneur. I used to be a VC, and I come from a traditional family where entrepreneurship was the... They are all teacher. So I went to school, did my master in finance, became a CFE, started to work in a big pension fund, become a VC. Life was good, made a bit of money. And then something happened with my partners. They get rid of
14:59me. And I said, what? Well, I'm not... I've seen a lot of entrepreneur. I'm not dumber than them, so I'll I'll build something. Turns out I like it a lot. So people... So I'd I'd love love to have started to be an entrepreneur sooner in my life.
Nathan Latka
15:15Guys, there you have it. Amilia.com launched in 2010. They help folks that do events handle things like setting up the pages, the websites, the billing, the processing, you name it. They help with it. They are what I call SaaS plus. They make money on a pure SaaS business. They had 1,500,000 over the past twelve months, pure SaaS. They have a payments business they did 3,000,000 on. They have a GMV business. They process over $350,000,000 of GMV
15:35over the past twelve months, making about 3,500,000 there. Total revenue this year in 2020, about $8,000,000 up from 7,000,000 last year François. Thank you for taking us to the top.
François Gaouette
15:44Thank you very much. Really appreciate it and I love what you're doing.
Nathan Latka
15:50One more thing before you go. We have a brand new show every Thursday at 1PM central. It's called Shark Tank for SaaS. We call it deal or bust. One founder comes on, three hungry buyers, they try and do a deal live, and the founder shares back end dashboards, their expenses, their revenue, ARPU, CAC, LTV, you name it, they share it. And the buyers try and make a deal live. It is fun to watch every Thursday, 1PM
16:14central. Additionally, remember these recorded founder interviews go live. We release them here on YouTube every day at two p. M. Central. To make sure you don't miss any of that, make sure you click the subscribe button below here on YouTube, the big red button, and then click the little bell notification to make sure you get notifications when we do go live. I wouldn't want you to miss breaking news in the SaaS world, whether it's an acquisition,
16:35a big fundraise, a big sale, a big profitability statement or something else. I don't want you to miss it. Additionally, if you wanna take this conversation deeper and further, we have by far the largest private Slack community for B2B SaaS founders. You wanna get in there. We've probably talked about your tool if you're running a company or your firm if you're investing. You can go in there and quickly search and see what people are saying. Sign
16:56up for that at nathanlatka.com/slack. In the meantime, I'm hanging out with you here on YouTube. I'll be in the comments for the next thirty minutes. Feel free to let me know what you thought about this episode. And if you enjoyed it, click the thumbs up. We get a lot of haters that are mad at how aggressive I am on these shows, but I do it so that we can all learn. We have to counter those people.
17:15We gotta push them away. Click the thumbs up below to counter them and know
17:18that