Founder Interview
How BizMachine Reached $1.4M in Revenue Across 250 Customers with a 20-Person Team (Interview with CEO Martin Ondas)
- Interview Date
- February 21, 2023
- Interviewee
- Martin OndasCEO
Company Metrics at Interview Time
Total Annual Revenue (2023)
$1.4M
SaaS Revenue (2023)
$1.1M
Customers (2023)
250
ARPU (2023)
$350 per month
Team Size (2023)
20
Historical Snapshot
These numbers were reported by Martin Ondas during his interview with Nathan Latka recorded in February 2023 and represent a historical snapshot, not current figures. See BizMachine’s current numbers.
Key Takeaways
- 01BizMachine generated $1.4M in total annual revenue as of early 2023, with $1.1M coming from SaaS alone.
- 02The company serves 250 customers paying an average of $350 per month, or $4,000 per year.
- 03Largest customer pays more than $100,000 per year.
- 0483% of revenue is recurring, with project or agency revenue down to less than 17%.
- 05Customer acquisition cost is approximately $1,200, with a CAC payback period of 4.5 months.
- 06The team is 20 people, exactly half of whom are engineers, data scientists, or data engineers.
- 07BizMachine is fully bootstrapped since its founding in 2017, with initial seed funding from three co-founders.
- 08The company tripled inbound lead generation over the year prior to the interview.
- 09BizMachine was founded as an agency in 2017 and pivoted to a SaaS-first model starting in 2020.
- 10Martin Ondas is the only one of the three original co-founders still active in the company.
Company Metrics at Time of Interview
| Metric | Value | Source |
|---|---|---|
| Total Annual Revenue (2023) | $1.4M | Founder interview, Feb 2023 |
| SaaS Revenue (2023) | $1.1M | Founder interview, Feb 2023 |
| Agency Revenue (pre-pivot) (2020) | Less than $1M | Founder interview, Feb 2023 |
| Recurring Revenue Share (2023) | 83% | Founder interview, Feb 2023 |
| Project Revenue Share (2023) | Less than 17% | Founder interview, Feb 2023 |
| Customers (2023) | 250 | Founder interview, Feb 2023 |
| ARPU (2023) | $350 per month | Founder interview, Feb 2023 |
| Average Contract Value (2023) | $4,000 per year | Founder interview, Feb 2023 |
| Largest Customer Annual Contract (2023) | More than $100,000 | Founder interview, Feb 2023 |
| CAC (2023) | $1,200 | Founder interview, Feb 2023 |
| CAC Payback Period (2023) | 4.5 months | Founder interview, Feb 2023 |
| Team Size (2023) | 20 | Founder interview, Feb 2023 |
| Engineers (incl. data scientists and data engineers) (2023) | 10 | Founder interview, Feb 2023 |
| Year Founded | 2017 | Founder interview, Feb 2023 |
| Typical Seats per Basic Package (2023) | 4 to 5 | Founder interview, Feb 2023 |
Growth Breakdown
Revenue
BizMachine reported $1.4M in total annual revenue as of early 2023, with $1.1M attributable to SaaS. The company started as an agency doing less than $1M in 2020, and has since shifted so that recurring revenue now accounts for 83% of the total, with project revenue below 17%.
Customers
The company serves 250 customers ranging from small sales teams of two to four people up to enterprises with 250-seat deployments. The first 20 to 25 customers came through referrals from the agency business, and the team subsequently added cold calling to accelerate growth.
Team
BizMachine has 20 full-time employees, with exactly half being engineers, data scientists, or data engineers. Martin Ondas, the CEO, has a background in software engineering but has not worked as an engineer for the past 15 years.
Funding and Profitability
The company is fully bootstrapped, with initial seed capital contributed by its three co-founders. Martin Ondas noted that one year prior to the interview he had considered pursuing venture funding to accelerate growth, but chose to continue bootstrapping given changes in market multiples.
Growth Strategy
Agency-to-SaaS Transition
BizMachine began as an SDR consulting agency in 2017 and used that customer base as the foundation for its SaaS platform. Early platform customers were transitioned directly from the agency, giving the team a known set of needs to build against.
Referrals as the First Growth Channel
The first 20 to 25 customers came entirely through references and word of mouth. Martin Ondas credited this referral base as the primary driver of early platform adoption before any outbound sales motion was in place.
Cold Calling and Direct Sales
After the initial referral cohort, the team added cold calling as a structured outbound channel. Martin Ondas described the approach as a hustle-driven, sales-heavy motion, with marketing playing a very small role relative to direct sales at the time of the interview.
Inbound Lead Generation Growth
Over the year prior to the interview, BizMachine more than tripled its inbound lead generation. Martin Ondas indicated the company planned to grow its marketing function further, while continuing to learn what works in that channel.
Deep Vertical Specialization
Rather than competing with broad international databases, BizMachine focuses on depth of intelligence in specific industries including e-commerce, FinTech, ICT, and automotive fleet markets in Central Europe. This specialization allows the company to serve both small sales teams and large enterprises with tailored data and seat licensing.
Best Quotes
“Well, the range is quite broad from small sales teams of two to four salespeople up to an enterprise with a sales force of two fifty people. So the size doesn't really matter for us. What's more important is that they're really interested in the regional or local sales market, rather than, you know, tapping to an international database.”
“Today, this one kind of project revenue is less than 17%. So 83% is our recurring revenue. And most of that is directly from the platform as a data license and user license, whether used by users and the user interface or an API to their systems.”
“It's $4,000 a year. So that would be like 350 a month.”
“So our total revenue is about one point four, one point six million dollars a year.”
“So right now our CAC is about 4.5 months of recurring revenue. So about $1,200 Yeah, something like that. So between four and five months. And it's mostly sales, very little marketing. We'll be growing the marketing portion, but we have to learn as we go.”
“over the last year we more than tripled the inbound leads generation and the references and everything. So it's looking good and let's see where it takes us.”
“I think it was a mistake. You know, we say, we have a saying here that friends need good setup and good friends need even a better setup. Having a formal structure is not in the detriment of a relationship. It's the opposite. So it probably would have been a bit easier.”
“Well, at the beginning, it was more to keep the control of the company. So that was the primary motivation. And it was relatively easy for us to sell projects consulting.”
What Happened Next
This interview captures BizMachine at a specific moment in early 2023, when the company had 250 customers, $1.4M in total annual revenue, and a 20-person team operating out of Prague. Martin Ondas was navigating co-founder equity questions and evaluating whether to pursue venture funding or continue bootstrapping. For current revenue, customer count, and company status, visit the BizMachine profile on GetLatka where live data is updated as it becomes available.
View BizMachine’s current profile and metricsFull Transcript
Chapters
- 0:00Introduction and Company Overview
- 0:46Customer Profile and Use Cases
- 2:00Agency Origins and Pivot to SaaS
- 2:28Revenue Mix: Recurring vs. Project
- 2:45Pricing and Average Contract Value
- 3:04Seat and Data License Structure
- 6:57Company Timeline: 2017 to 2023
- 7:16Customer Count and Early Growth
- 7:38Total Revenue and SaaS Revenue Breakdown
- 8:14Bootstrapping and Co-Founder Equity
- 9:15Equity Mistakes and Lessons Learned
- 9:42Team Size and Engineering Headcount
- 10:17Why Bootstrap and Future Funding Plans
- 11:57CAC, Growth Strategy, and Inbound Leads
- 12:31Famous Five Rapid Fire
Introduction and Company Overview
Nathan Latka
00:00He launched bizmachine.com as an agency back in 2017. Today, it's almost it's 90% SaaS doing about $1,400,000 in revenue across 250 customers paying on average $350 a month. Those customers are licensing data and seats from his platform, bizmachine, to go close more deals. So it's a B2B SaaS sales tool built and based in Prague and focused on customers that are in Europe. Hey folks, my guest today is Martin Ondas. He's leading bizmachine, the Prague based SaaS
00:26company that builds B2B sales intelligence and prospecting platform for companies in Central Europe. The mission is to provide maximum depth of intelligence to regional B2B professionals with specialized insights into e commerce, FinTech, ICT, and automotive fleet markets. Martin, you ready to take us to the top?
Martin Ondas
00:44>> Hello, very nice to be here.
Customer Profile and Use Cases
Nathan Latka
00:46It's great to have you. So give me an example of a customer that's paying you guys today.
Martin Ondas
00:50>> Well, the range is quite broad from small sales teams of two to four salespeople up to an enterprise with a sales force of two fifty people. So the size doesn't really matter for us. What's more important is that they're really interested in the regional or local sales market, rather than, you know, tapping to an international database. We go quite deep in individual industries and individual use cases for that particular vertical of the customer.
Nathan Latka
01:22And so like, should we think of you like an outsourced SDR agency? Or are you using technology here to solve this problem?
Martin Ondas
01:27>> We're using technology. So actually, started as an SDR agency, kind of a consulting business about three years ago. About 70% of our revenues was one off project revenues. And at that point, also with COVID started
Nathan Latka
01:43What year was that, Martin?
Martin Ondas
01:44>> Three years ago, early twenty twenty.
Nathan Latka
01:47Okay. And can I ask you how much revenue agency revenue you did in 2020?
Martin Ondas
01:53>> Yeah, less than a million dollars.
Nathan Latka
01:55Okay. Got it. So you had some traction, but you weren't doing, you know, We four had some traction.
Agency Origins and Pivot to SaaS
Martin Ondas
02:00>> At that point, decided to invest much more into technology, into the platform, into self-service, etcetera. Especially the mission was to bring the insights and advanced analytics benefits that a large corporation could buy from us to bring it to a much smaller sales team. And we knew that we had to invest much more into the platform so that things are not ad hoc and customized all the time, and then they can actually tap to it. Today, this
Revenue Mix: Recurring vs. Project
Martin Ondas
02:28>> one kind of project revenue is less than 17%. So 83% is our recurring revenue. And most of that is directly from the platform as a data license and user license, whether used by users and the user interface or an API to their systems.
Pricing and Average Contract Value
Nathan Latka
02:45And so Martin, what does the average customer pay you per month on the SaaS side of things?
Martin Ondas
02:51>> It's $4,000 a year. So that would be like 350 a month.
Nathan Latka
02:56And so what if someone's paying you 4,000 a year, how many seats are they getting? What's the date of license look like? What's included in that plan?
Seat and Data License Structure
Martin Ondas
03:04>> They would typically have, you know, four to five seats. So that's kind of the sweet spot. Now we also have others that have two fifty seats. But the median kind of the basic package is four to five seats. And we license data and seats separately. So either you have very broad and detailed data sets, even if it's one seat, it could be quite expensive, or you have many seats. So we can scale both through depth of
03:32>> data or number of seats that are using it. Typically, the license would include both.
Nathan Latka
03:37Yeah. Okay. Very cool. And you mentioned some of your accounts have hundreds of seats or a lot of seats. Don't name the customer, obviously, but what is your largest customer pay per year?
Martin Ondas
03:47>> More than a $100,000.
Nathan Latka
03:49Okay. So interesting. And that's, and when you say you sell the seats separately from the data license, how do you even package and sell a data license? What does that even mean?
Martin Ondas
03:58>> Well, it's always a bit of a negotiation. So above certain size, it's an enterprise deal, obviously. And it would, with the large customers, it would always include user license, data license, some integration, and maybe even custom work on top of that.
Nathan Latka
04:15Oh, what's going on there, YouTube? Good to see you guys. Now imagine this, you love watching these interviews with SaaS founders. But imagine if we took all of the valuation data out from over 2807 interviews I've done manually saves you a lot of time. Well, we've done this. We've built it into the beautiful interface inside of Founderpath. Check this out. I'll show you how you can access this in a second, but you log in, you connect
04:38your Stripe account, you see your valuation real time. You can see what it changed over the past eighty eight days and even set goals for valuation this year. Now the secret evaluation is there's many different ways to value a SaaS business. So the reason you're gonna see three or four different valuations inside of your Founderpath dashboard, this is all free by the way, is because depending on who's doing the buying of your SaaS company, you're gonna
05:03get a different valuation. A VC is gonna pay a different valuation. Private equity firm is different. If you're gonna do a minority sale, that's different. And if you sell the whole business, that's a different valuation. You can see all those when I hover over here, Right? So the teal is what a VC would pay. Yellow is what private equity and red is if you sold the whole thing outright. Now what's cool about this is this is
05:25not built off random data. Again, you guys hear these interviews on YouTube. All these datas are built from real time valuation data points founder share with us on the show. So traction, 1,200,000 seed round, 3.7 raise. They sold 22% of their business. Go in here and filter by the event. Maybe you only wanna see companies that have sold the whole business. Well, here are a bunch that have been acquired the valuation and the multiple. Maybe you're
05:50going out right now and you're raising your seed round. We'll go in here and look at all this recent seed deals that went down, what they raised, what valuation they raised at, and what percent that they sold. There's never been a larger dataset of SaaS valuations than what you can get now inside of Founderpath. And we're thrilled to bring it to you. Alright. We're gonna go back to the YouTube video here in a second, but if
06:12you wanna check this tool out, if you wanna jump in and sign up, you can check it out for free to get your valuation at this link. This link, founderpath.com/products/valuations. Or if you go to founderpath.com and hover over products, click on get your valuation here, and go ahead and sign up to give it a whirl. Again, all that valuation data live right inside the platform. I hope to see you there. Alright. Let's jump back into the
06:39interview. Interesting. Now put this on a timeline for us. Obviously, you it sounds like you pivoted the agency in 2020 to more tech, but when did you launch the agency? What year?
Martin Ondas
06:48>> 2017.
Nathan Latka
06:492017. Okay. And then you pivot in 2020. And I guess fast forward to today, how many customers are you working with?
Martin Ondas
06:55>> Two fifty customers.
Company Timeline: 2017 to 2023
Nathan Latka
06:57Wow. How did you get the first 100? What was the strategy?
Martin Ondas
07:01>> Well, some of them were transitioned from the agency business to the platform. So we knew them, we knew what they needed. We transitioned them all the way at the beginning. It was through references mostly. And
Customer Count and Early Growth
Martin Ondas
07:16>> I would say the first 20 or 25 were references. And at some point we started cold calling.
Nathan Latka
07:22That's amazing. So two fifty Almost like a door to door Salesforce, yeah.
Martin Ondas
07:27>> Well, sometimes that's the hustle it requires,
Nathan Latka
07:30but two fifty customers paying $350 per month would mean you're doing about $87,000 per month in revenue today. Is that accurate?
Total Revenue and SaaS Revenue Breakdown
Martin Ondas
07:38>> So our total revenue is about one point four, one point six million dollars a year.
Nathan Latka
07:44Okay. And that's on but that's because you're adding on the agency revenue on top of the SaaS, right? The 17% of the
Martin Ondas
07:49>> Yes, one the SaaS only would be one point one, one point three million.
Nathan Latka
07:55Yep, yep, yep. And so what do you think what do you think you'll grow to here in 2023?
Martin Ondas
07:59>> On the SaaS part, something like 20%.
Nathan Latka
08:03Okay. Interesting. And are you guys bootstrapped or have you raised capital?
Martin Ondas
08:06>> Totally bootstrapped. So we had some initial seed funding from the founders, three of us. And since then it's bootstrapped.
Bootstrapping and Co-Founder Equity
Nathan Latka
08:14Now, you guys nice to each other at the start? Did you split equity '33, '33, '33 or what?
Martin Ondas
08:19>> Exactly what we did at the beginning. Yes.
Nathan Latka
08:22Was that the right decision?
Martin Ondas
08:25>> Maybe not, but let's see.
Nathan Latka
08:27Well, tell us what you learned. A lot of first time founders are listening and maybe they're in the middle of an equity negotiation right now at their first SaaS company. What can they learn from you?
Martin Ondas
08:34>> Yeah, look, there's always pros and cons. I'm coming now back and listen to other war stories of what other entrepreneurs have seen and done. And if I look at it today, of those three founders, I'm the only one active now in the company.
Nathan Latka
08:53So Were the other two on a vesting schedule, or did you buy back their equity?
Martin Ondas
08:58>> Not yet.
Nathan Latka
08:59Are you working on it?
Martin Ondas
09:00>> Not yet. We're negotiating, discussing, we had a spin off, etcetera. So it's a bit complex, but everything will be right.
Nathan Latka
09:08So is that a mistake not to have all the founders on vesting schedules because now you have 60% of the equity not active in the company?
Equity Mistakes and Lessons Learned
Martin Ondas
09:15>> I think it was a mistake. You know, we say, we have a saying here that
09:22>> friends need good setup and good friends need even a better setup. Having a formal structure is not in the detriment of a relationship. It's the opposite. So it probably would have been a bit easier.
Nathan Latka
09:36Interesting. Interesting. Okay. Well, you're scaling nice today. I guess walk me through how many folks are full time at the company.
Team Size and Engineering Headcount
Martin Ondas
09:42>> We're 20 people.
Nathan Latka
09:4420 people. And how many of those folks are engineers?
Martin Ondas
09:48>> Exactly half. So 10 engineers. Yeah.
Nathan Latka
09:53And are you an engineer
Martin Ondas
09:55>> That by includes data scientists, data engineers, and software engineers. Yeah.
Nathan Latka
09:57Are you an engineer?
Martin Ondas
09:59>> No. No. I used to be a long time ago, but not for the last fifteen years.
Nathan Latka
10:03You're a Lotus guy. Right?
Martin Ondas
10:05>> No. I worked for SAP as a software engineer.
Nathan Latka
10:08Ah, okay.
Martin Ondas
10:08>> Long time ago. Yeah.
Nathan Latka
10:09Very very cool. So you've bootstrapped today. Now tell me why you've decided to bootstrap.
Why Bootstrap and Future Funding Plans
Martin Ondas
10:17>> Well, at the beginning, it was more to keep the control of the company. So that was the primary motivation. And it was relatively easy for us to sell projects consulting.
10:30>> And after a while, I would say one year ago, if you had asked me one year ago, would have said, No, we're on a path to go and get venture funding to accelerate the growth. Now, you know what happened with the multiples and everything. So we're bootstrapping another year, I would say.
Nathan Latka
10:43That's awesome. What about exit scenarios? I mean, it sounds like there's an opportunity right now because you're sort of trying to figure out a bunch of equity that's not active anymore. I mean, if someone came in today and just offered you 3,000,000 all cash for the whole company, would you sell?
Martin Ondas
10:58>> No. Probably not. Probably not.
Nathan Latka
11:01You had to think about that.
Martin Ondas
11:03>> Yeah. I need to convert to crowns, Czech crowns, you know.
Nathan Latka
11:08Let me phrase it differently.
Martin Ondas
11:10>> Think there's more potential than that. I would be much more interested in a strategic buyer that sees benefit in the technology and the IP that we have and wants to develop it further.
Nathan Latka
11:22Well, let's say it is that, let's say it is, Martin, let's say, let's say it is that kind of buyer. Yeah. Yeah. Let's say it is that buyer, they come they offer, you know, three x your annual revenues, all cash upfront.
Martin Ondas
11:36>> Three x is borderline and the team would have to agree with it.
Nathan Latka
11:39Interesting. Okay. Does the team own equity?
Martin Ondas
11:42>> No, but we will be having an ESOP plan.
Nathan Latka
11:45Ah, okay. Very good. Very good. Love that. Well, I love how you're building the company. I love how you're scaling. What's the plan to go from, you know, two fifty customers to 500 customers? Is it just cold calling and hustling or what's the growth strategy?
CAC, Growth Strategy, and Inbound Leads
Martin Ondas
11:57>> So right now our CAC is about 4.5 months of recurring revenue. So about $1,200 Yeah, something like that. So between four and five months. And it's mostly sales, very little marketing. We'll be growing the marketing portion, but we have to learn as we go. Yep. So I think
12:21>> over the last year we more than tripled the inbound leads generation and the references and everything. So it's looking good and let's see where it takes us.
Famous Five Rapid Fire
Nathan Latka
12:31More room for you. In the meantime though, let's wrap up here with Famous Five. Number one, what's your favorite business book?
Martin Ondas
12:39>> Probably Principles from Ray Dalio.
Nathan Latka
12:42Number two, is there a CEO you're following or studying?
Martin Ondas
12:46>> Quite recently, I checked out lots of Patrick Bet David, you know him from Valuetainment. You know, I get inspired by people who are
12:59>> kind of hustlers go through a difficult story and are successful in the end. And it's a very different life story to mine. And I like to see that.
Nathan Latka
13:08Number three, what's your favorite online tool for building bizmachine?
Martin Ondas
13:11>> Oh, I have a favorite one every month, but I think Make and Slack. Make and Slack.
Nathan Latka
13:16Okay. Number four,
13:18how many hours of sleep do get every night?
Martin Ondas
13:20>> During week or weekend?
Nathan Latka
13:24During week.
Martin Ondas
13:24>> Six to seven.
Nathan Latka
13:25Six to seven during the week. Okay.
13:27And what's your situation? Married? Single? Kids?
Martin Ondas
13:30>> Well, I'm married. I have five kids.
Nathan Latka
13:32You have five kids?
Martin Ondas
13:34>> Yes.
Nathan Latka
13:34Oh my gosh. You're a busy guy. How old are you?
Martin Ondas
13:37>> I'm 47.
Nathan Latka
13:3837?
Martin Ondas
13:40>> 47.
Nathan Latka
13:4140. 47. Wow. Okay. 47, five kids, you still get seven hours of sleep. This is incredible. What's something you wish you knew when you were 20, Martin?
Martin Ondas
13:51>> Trust your own judgment more.
Nathan Latka
13:54Guys, there you have it. He launched bizmachine.com as an agency back in 2017. Today, it's almost it's 90% SaaS doing about $1,400,000 in revenue across 250 customers paying on average $350 a month. Those customers are licensing data and seats from his platform bizmachine to go close more deals. So it's a B2B SaaS sales tool built and based in Prague and focused on customers that are in Europe. Martin, thanks for taking us to the top.
Martin Ondas
14:19>> Thank you, Nathan.
Nathan Latka
14:20One more thing before you go. We have a brand new show every Thursday at 1PM Central. It's called Shark Tank for SaaS. We call it deal or bust. One founder comes on, three hungry buyers, they try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards, their expenses, their revenue, ARPU, CAC, LTV, you name it, they share it. And the buyers try and make a deal live. It is fun to watch every Thursday, 1PM
14:45Central. Additionally, remember these recorded founder interviews go live. We release them here on YouTube every day at 2PM Central. To make sure you don't miss any of that, make sure you click the subscribe button below here on YouTube, the big red button, and then click the little bell notification to make sure you get notifications when we do go live. I wouldn't want you to miss breaking news in the SaaS world, whether it's an acquisition, a big
15:08fundraise, a big sale, a big profitability statement or something else. I don't want you to miss it. Additionally, if you want to take this conversation deeper and further, we have by far the largest private Slack community for B2B SaaS founders. You want to get in there. We've probably talked about your tool if you're running a company or your firm if you're investing. You can go in there and quickly search and see what people are saying. Sign
15:29up for that at nathanlatka.com/slack. In the meantime, I'm hanging out with you here on YouTube. I'll be in the comments for the next thirty minutes. Feel free to let me know what you thought about this episode. If you enjoyed it, click the thumbs up. We get a lot of haters that are mad at how aggressive I am on these shows, but I do it so that we can all learn. We have to counter those people. We
15:49got to push them away. Click the thumbs up below to counter them and know that I appreciate your guys'support. All right. I'll be in the comments. See you.