How Logology Reached Nearly 100 Sales on a One-Time Pricing Model (Interview with Dagobert Renouf)

Introduction and Background

Nathan Latka

00:00Hello, everyone. My guest today is Dagobert Renouf. Spent twelve years programming so far and then finally landed his dream tech job. He's a great team, great talent, good projects. But after three months, he started getting bored and realized that maybe he wasn't the perfect fit after all. He wanted a bigger challenge. He had no other choice than to start his own company. He's now building a company called logology.co. Alright. Dagobert. You ready to take us to the

00:22top?

Dagobert Renouf

00:23>> Yeah. Let's go. Alright. Yeah.

The Full-Time Job He Left

Nathan Latka

00:25So what was the full time job out of curiosity? What were you working on?

Dagobert Renouf

00:29>> I was an engineer, and the last full full time job I mean, that dream job I referred to, that was I was responsible from engineering mobile apps for big companies. I was working at a web development studio in The US. I worked remotely. So that was kind of like the perfect job for me. I could work remotely from France for big projects that were in The US. That was called big TV channel mobile project. I had

00:56>> lots of responsibilities, lots of autonomy, the team was great, but I still got bored out of it after a while. But, you know, kind of like I wanted more out of this. Yeah.

When He Quit and Financial Preparation

Nathan Latka

01:08When did you quit?

Dagobert Renouf

01:10>> That was

01:13>> three years ago now, almost. That was almost three years ago, and that was after a bit more than a year working with them.

Nathan Latka

01:19And and I always like to ask, I mean, when you you quit your full time gig and go into a side project, obviously you ideally have some cash savings to give yourself some time to launch your new project. How did you personally think about your financial situation when you quit?

Dagobert Renouf

01:33>> So basically because I was working for a US company and I was living in France, so where I live, like, the cost of living is way less expensive. So I was able to save a lot of cash during that year. So I basically just thought of, like, saving as much as I could during that time, and then I could use that as my runway for my startup. Yeah.

Nathan Latka

01:56And and and so what was that can I ask? What was that job paying you full time before you quit?

Dagobert Renouf

02:03>> I was already I I was, like, 80% of the time because I already negotiated wanting to work a bit on a side project. And I was making, I think, that was €5,000 or €6,000 a month for, like

Nathan Latka

02:18Was it was it nervous giving that up?

Dagobert Renouf

02:22>> You know what? Actually, that was my last job, but that's almost my first job. Because before that, I did freelancing for like ten years. So I was used to like being in the, you know, in not having a salary. That was actually a pretty weird experience for me to have a salary for a year. So that wasn't scary. No.

Nathan Latka

02:41So when you quit and this was in 2018. Right?

Dagobert Renouf

02:44>> Yeah.

Launching Logology and the Honeymoon Idea

Nathan Latka

02:45When you quit, did you already know what you wanted to launch, or were you not sure yet?

Dagobert Renouf

02:49>> So that was funny because I had an idea for something. I wanted to create basically kind of like WordPress, but for mobile apps, because that's what I was working on at the time. So I thought, well, we should make a way to give people a way to create a mobile app as easy as it is to run WordPress. So that was my idea. But then I got married and with my wife during her honeymoon, she's a

03:14>> graphic designer, and we had the idea for what we are working on now. So that's actually my co founder, it's my wife.

Nathan Latka

03:21Oh wow.

Dagobert Renouf

03:22>> So initially I started with an idea, but during the honeymoon, like that was like a couple months after, we just had this idea of working together on it, and I don't know why, but, like, I think it's because we were, like, we were in The US doing a road trip for this travel,

03:38>> and that was just, like, so exciting, and we thought, let's do this crazy thing, and we decided in a few minutes. So, yeah, so we changed everything.

Nathan Latka

03:47And so the the the sort of CMS for, like, mobile apps or WordPress for mobile apps, is that what eventually pivoted into Logology, or did you shut that down?

Dagobert Renouf

03:55>> Oh, yeah. I didn't even pivot it. That was just like I was just starting to work on it, but I didn't even do anything. So I didn't

Nathan Latka

04:02So when did you launch Logology?

Dagobert Renouf

04:05>> So the so the first launch, we still say we're in beta, but we we're still live for, like that was late April of last year. So that's a bit more than a year.

Revenue Model and Approaching 100 Sales

Nathan Latka

04:18Okay. And is it still pre revenue, or have you launched a paywall yet?

Dagobert Renouf

04:23>> We have revenue. It's not profitable in the terms that we cannot depend on it yet, but we are making money. Like, we we are actually, we had a couple of sales today, and we're almost at, like, the 100 sale. So that's pretty cool.

Nathan Latka

04:37That's exciting. Is it all sort of recurring revenue? You have three plans, 49, 99, and $400 per month.

Dagobert Renouf

04:43>> No. It's it's not per month. It's actually one time because it's just like because it's just like a logo for now. We might expand and add stuff on top of it to get more, you know, recurring revenue, but it's hard to find, like You know, when you buy a logo, what would you need to pay for monthly? There's not really anything. So it's more like site services that we could add. Mhmm. So, yeah, it's a one

Nathan Latka

05:05>> time.

05:05A 100 sales, that's exciting. That's something to celebrate. So so if you add Yeah. How much revenue from the 100 sales?

Dagobert Renouf

05:12>> Well, I guess we must be at around because I didn't I don't have it precisely, but I think it's probably 6,000, something like that. Yeah. Because we changed price multiple times.

Nathan Latka

05:24Yep. And so how do you, you know, I guess the question is between 2019 and 2020, and even right now as you're scaling, what are you doing to make sure you guys have other cash coming in while you're building your side project?

Personal Crisis and Company Nearly Shutting Down

Dagobert Renouf

05:39>> So I got, I mean, it's a pretty intense thing I'm gonna tell you, but basically right after we started Logology, my mother passed away. She had cancer, so that was like a very troubling time. And actually that almost killed the company right away because like honestly for months, I couldn't work really well, to be honest. And so I was the cash was like, you know, running low and stuff like that. And so we almost thought about

06:11>> quitting. You know, that was just like end of twenty eighteen and early twenty nineteen. And my mom was broke also, so I had all this debt coming in. I mean, a whole mess, terrible situation, emotionally and financially. And so we were kind of like ready to give it up, and we were giving it a few months, but there was no way we would have been successful in that timeframe. And I got lucky in the sense that

06:36>> in that terrible situation, my mom was pretty young, she was 62 or 64, I never know, but like she was 62 or 64. And

06:50>> because I never know like if it's the date when she had it or like when she died anyway. But she was around 64 and she had like some sort of insurance that could trigger if she passed away before 65. And so I got that. And to me that kind of like, because my mom, when I was very young, she always supported me and it felt like some sort of sign. You know, it's weird to say, you

07:13>> know, but like when somebody dies, you catch these things, like you try to, you know, hold yourself to these signs. And I felt like, wow, that's a sign. That was some sort of out of nowhere, I was ready to close the company and we got this insurance that was, you know, pretty significant and that allowed us to keep going for a couple more years. And so I was like, wow, we really need to make this successful

07:37>> now because I don't know, felt like I had to make it successful now, kind of like to make her proud in a way, you know. We had a very troubled relationship at the end, but like there was this thing about, I don't know, we kept going and to, But now, my co founder, so my wife, she's starting to take a few, you know, side gigs, but that's mostly how we run it now. And

Runway from Savings and Insurance

Nathan Latka

08:05Well, thanks for sharing that story, Dagobert. Yeah. That's, you know, that's the truth. That's what happens, and I appreciate you being transparent and and sort of sharing that with everyone. So so 2018 to 2019, tricky time for you. The insurance was a bit of a surprise. How many years of runway did that give you when it came in? Like, how much, you know, of your cash Like, three

Dagobert Renouf

08:30>> years three to four years, something like that.

Nathan Latka

08:32Okay.

Dagobert Renouf

08:32>> I mean, my savings when I started, I had, like, two years, and it added, like, three to four years. Yeah.

Nathan Latka

08:39And and how do you so, like, one of the things that I see a lot with founders that raise VC capital is it's so easy to raise money. You see a lot of really good founders stuck in bad ideas, and they feel like they can't give up that bad idea because they've raised VC. So in your case, if your mom is sort of the angel VC

Dagobert Renouf

08:58>> That's yeah. That's kind of it. Yeah.

Nathan Latka

09:00Exactly. But but my question to you would be, like, if you at some at some point realize Logology cannot scale how you hoped it would scale, should Yeah. Wouldn't your mom want you to shut it down and and pivot into something new? And how do you think about that?

Growth Strategy and Distribution Challenges

Dagobert Renouf

09:17>> Yeah. I the way I think about it is the way we created Logology was from, like, the years of experience working with people in the design industry, you know, doing design services. My wife was doing that for years. So we know there's a need, so we didn't even have to validate it. I mean it was instantly validated. And so it's more about how can we make it successful. So it might not be able to scale. Right

09:44>> now we are struggling with distribution, for example, how to scale that, so we're having trouble there.

09:50>> I so my my plan is like, giving it like, you know, as long as I have ideas for like making it bigger, I keep pushing and it tends to bring results. And if at some point I cannot get bigger, what I will do is I will make it into more like a passive thing so that's still running, that still makes some revenue, you know, from selling logos from time to time. Mhmm. And then I will indeed

10:15>> pivot, and I actually have an idea for a pivot for a while. It's funny. It's something that was brought up by people naturally, and so I might do that. But I still, you know, so I'm trying to not get stuck in like, oh, wanted to succeed quickly, and so as soon as it becomes challenging, you give up and you're like, yo, let's pivot, let's pivot, let's pivot. I'm more like, there's something there, we have good testimonials,

10:40>> we have good feedback, we have sales, so let's keep pushing, you know, let's keep taking some risk, but at the same time, we might need to pivot at some point because it might just be unrealistic. So let's be aware of that.

Nathan Latka

10:53Mhmm. Well, I mean, listen, you caught my eye on Twitter and I went to the site and I said, this is a beautifully designed website. I wanna interview this guy, and that's why I invited a lot. Awesome. So my hope is that anyone listening around, they go check out logology.co. Check out this thing. I mean, if you guys have logos you want designed, you gotta support this guy. It's it's incredible design. In fact, Dagobert, we, on

11:14September 9, are having the WAC one thousand SaaS award show in Austin, Texas. I wanna design, like, a beautiful frame, like, award with sort of LAC one thousand and, like, the award Oh, wow.

Dagobert Renouf

11:26>> Okay. Yeah.

Nathan Latka

11:27And, like, that might be I mean, I would love to work with you on that. I'd love to pay you to to design that and maybe

Dagobert Renouf

11:32>> To design an actual, like the statue, like, award itself.

Nathan Latka

11:35Exactly. Wow.

11:36It could be a statue or it could be a print, like a framed thing, like a shadow box sort of deal, but Yeah. We kinda work together on that.

Dagobert Renouf

11:44>> I would love that. I mean, not me, but, like, my wife who's my who's the designer, she would like yeah. She would love that.

Team Roles: Dagobert and His Wife

Nathan Latka

11:51How do you guys split roles? So if she does all the design, what do you do?

Dagobert Renouf

11:55>> So I do, well, the business side Mhmm. And I do the coding and also the UX. So I'm I'm I'm basically like a product guy with engineering, and she's really focused on the logos and also like the vision behind how do we make the product work. Because it's like, you know, it's a specific way to get a logo, like, you answer questions about the values of your company, and then we tell you this is the kind

12:21>> of logo that's right for you. So that all comes from, like, her work as a designer when she was consulting. So she brings that vision of, like, that vision for design, how to design a good logo, and how and and then my job is to translate that into an actual product. Mhmm. So it's really complementary team.

Nathan Latka

12:40When you say convert into product, are you actually doing product UI and UX, like design?

Dagobert Renouf

12:45>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I used to you know, because I freelanced for so long, I used to have many different roles over over years. And so, yeah, I can do UX too, and that's what I do on Logology.

Nathan Latka

12:56I see. So that's like that's how you're generating extra income. It's not just the logo, you're also doing full fledged product, like UI UX design.

Dagobert Renouf

13:03>> No. No. No. No. For for now for now, it's just the logos. That's actually the pivot idea, is to do landing pages, but we're not doing that now. Yeah. But what I'm saying is that when I was freelancing, before I started Logology,

13:18>> I used to do that as a service.

Third Co-Founder and Equity Buyback

Nathan Latka

13:20Yeah. I see. And it just the team size right now, just the two of you. Right?

Dagobert Renouf

13:25>> Yeah. We had a third co founder for a while, and then we had to split because, like, we didn't work that well together. So it was good for a time. It actually helped us quite a lot because he helped us see things differently. He was more into marketing. Mhmm. And and also because we were like a couple, me and my wife, sometimes you just get stuck in ideas and you don't see, you know, it's it's hard

13:45>> to I mean, it's good to have an external perspective. So he helped us with that for a while, but then, like, we didn't work. It it wasn't working really well, so we had to stop. Yeah.

Nathan Latka

13:55How much equity did he own?

Dagobert Renouf

13:58>> We had given him 25%.

Nathan Latka

13:59Okay.

Dagobert Renouf

14:00>> And then we but then when he left, like, we bought it back.

Nathan Latka

14:04How did you negotiate the price? Like, much did you pay to buy it back?

Dagobert Renouf

14:09>> Well, I'm not sure I can say the price because we signed tons of contracts, I'm not sure I can say the price. What I can say is the way we thought about the price is, honestly, the company wasn't worth saying anything when we we did that. So it was more in terms of like, okay, he spent more a bit more than a year with us, and now he's gonna be left with nothing. So we need to

14:31>> make it, you know, good for him that, like, he spent time so that we kind of, like, estimated kind of, like, a salary that he would have gotten because we had so little revenue at the time that he left that there was no way of estimating it. And we wanted to keep that he kept his shares, but he really didn't want that. He wanted to leave and have 0%. So we just bought back, you know, estimated

14:54>> kind of like

Famous Five: Books, Tools, and Habits

Nathan Latka

14:56Well, you're all in. You you guys are all in. We're certainly rooting for you. Let's let's wrap here with the famous five. Number one, what's your favorite business book?

Dagobert Renouf

15:05>> That's Zero to One.

Nathan Latka

15:06Number two.

Dagobert Renouf

15:07>> By Peter Thiel.

Nathan Latka

15:08Is there a CEO you're following or studying, Dagobert?

Dagobert Renouf

15:16>> I no. I I try to avoid that. I would say Steve Jobs is very basic, but that's the

Nathan Latka

15:22Number number three, what's your favorite online tool for building Logology?

Dagobert Renouf

15:27>> For building?

Nathan Latka

15:28Actually, for you, when you're doing Project UX UI design, like, what's your favorite tool right now in that space?

Dagobert Renouf

15:33>> Oh, for that, that would be Sketch. That's, like, the best tool for me. Yeah.

Nathan Latka

15:37Number four. How many hours of sleep do you get every night?

Dagobert Renouf

15:43>> Seven to eight. Yeah.

Nathan Latka

15:44Okay. It's pretty healthy. And then it sounds like and now you're married. Right? Wife, not fiance?

Dagobert Renouf

15:50>> Yeah. Wife.

Nathan Latka

15:51Any kids?

Dagobert Renouf

15:52>> No. No. We don't have kids.

Nathan Latka

15:54No kids yet. And how old are you?

Dagobert Renouf

15:57>> I'm 32. She's 40 almost.

Nathan Latka

16:0032.

Dagobert Renouf

16:01>> We kinda we kinda, like, had to make the choice about kids. So right now, we're not having kids yet.

Nathan Latka

16:05Yeah. Okay. So you're 32. So last question here. What's something you wish you knew when you were 20?

Dagobert Renouf

16:11>> I wish I knew that

16:17>> It's so funny. Such a funny question. I would say I didn't expect that

16:25>> I mean, even when you get older, you still you still feel like when you're young. So that that would be the thing I would tell myself. It's like, never stops. Like, you always doubt. You always, like, not really know. Like, it's normal, so get used to it. That's what I would tell myself.

Host Recap and Wrap-Up

Nathan Latka

16:39Guys, be comfortable with doubt. You heard it here from Dagobert, building logology.co. He gave up a €6,000 per month job back in 2018 to pursue his side projects, pivoted many times, almost and said, you know, we have to shut this down before his mom tragically passed away, but left him with a bit of capital to keep going and stick with it. He's about to pass his hundredth customer, which we love, and $6,000 in revenue at logology.co. Check

17:03it out. Dagobert, thanks for taking us to the top.

Dagobert Renouf

17:05>> Yeah. Thank you.

Nathan Latka

17:08One more thing before you go. We have a brand new show every Thursday at 1PM central. It's called Shark Tank for SaaS. We call it deal or bust. One founder comes on, three hungry buyers, they try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards, their expenses, their revenue, ARPU, CAC, LTV, you name it, they share it. And the buyers try and make a deal live. It is fun to watch every Thursday, one

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18:40See you.