How Mozart Data Hit $2M ARR with 125% NDR and a 25-Person Team (Interview with CEO Peter Fishman)

Introduction and Customer Overview

Nathan Latka

00:00Guys, Fishman, mozartdata.com. They've got big customers like Modern Treasury, call it almost a 100 customers paying on average $1,800 a month. They're pushing a $2,000,000 run rate today in a really good position. They closed a $15,000,000 series A last year at pushing costs somewhere around a $100,000,000 valuation, and they're being pretty scrappy about it. They didn't go hire a 100 people. There are 25 folks full time today taking a disciplined approach to growth. We'll see what

00:22happens next. Hey, folks. My guest today is Peter Fishman. He's a CEO and co founder of mozartdata. He's over a decade of running data and data adjacent teams at startups in a variety of industries, including gaming, social, HR and benefits, real estate, and many others. When he realized he was building the same thing at every company, he said, man, I gotta build a modern data stack that anybody can use. And that's why he launched mozartdata.com. Pete,

00:45you ready to take us to the top?

Peter Fishman

00:47>> Ready to do it.

Modern Treasury Use Case

Nathan Latka

00:48Alright. Who's using you these days? Is there any customer you can talk about in a use case?

Peter Fishman

00:52>> You know, sure. I would say that, obviously, we we we love highlighting our, you know, our big customers. So, you know, we've we've got, you know, a few unicorns that are using us. I love, you know, obviously, giving shout outs to a company like Modern Modern Treasury who's been one of our, like, longest supporters.

Nathan Latka

01:10How do they use you? Everybody knows Modern Treasury. That's a good example.

Peter Fishman

01:13>> Yeah. You know, a company like Modern Treasury uses us as as their core data infrastructure. So they have an incredible data science team, data analysts, even folks that sort of work as data engineers. But they sort of focus on organizing, structuring their data so they could, you know, build insights and reports and sort of monitor those for the company rather than sort of spend most of their time, you know, doing the data sort of plumbing and

01:41>> data infra work that's really become rote and and and commonplace for many of these companies.

Pricing Model: Bundled Compute and Rows

Nathan Latka

01:47And when we spoke back in December 2021, you told me your pricing model was based off compute and number of rows. Is that still the case today? Have you changed your pricing model?

Peter Fishman

01:56>> We have not changed our pricing model. We are still planning on not reinventing the wheel on that front. There's many, many, many great data companies out there, and we want to copy essentially the the norms that they put into the industry. So we wanna price in a very standard and transparent way. But one big difference that that those companies don't do versus us is that we bundle those things. So many of those companies charge on compute,

02:22>> which or charge on rows. We charge on effectively the bundle of compute and rows.

Nathan Latka

02:26They get you on both. It's a pain in the butt because you'll need a bunch bunch of one and not a lot of the other, but you gotta pay for both sort of thing. Right?

Peter Fishman

02:32>> That's right. So we have a singular currency, you can be sort of fungible between those two. Right? So some companies, they have just giant often, like, are b to c companies that are tracking many, many things, have, you know, a bunch of rows, but maybe they're not doing as heavy or complex joints on top of them. Or sometimes you have b to b companies that have very valuable rows. So each row represents a lot of money

02:54>> or potential revenue. But then maybe they're so they're bringing in very few to their warehouse, but maybe they're doing a lot of analysis of each and every customer.

ACV and Customer Mix

Nathan Latka

03:03Very cool. And talk to me about growth and usage. You said customers on average are paying about $1,800 a month two years ago. Where are you at today?

Peter Fishman

03:12>> Actually, that number is pretty flat for for two reasons. One, our largest customers have expanded. So, you know, we've actually set new records last month and the previous month where, you know, our our sort of biggest usage based customers that are paying us north of 6 figures. But we've also brought on board a lot of more early stage companies, and we introduced new pricing that is much more early stage friendly. So the the net of those

03:39>> two sort of balance out on our ACV.

Nathan Latka

03:42Fair. Fair. Do you have your first million dollar account yet?

Peter Fishman

03:45>> We don't have a 7 figure account, but but we are yeah. But I will you'll be one of the first to know when that happens. And but, you know, there are a lot of companies that do spend a lot of in on on data infrastructure, obviously. Yeah. Many companies that spend 7 figures. We obviously target the SMBs, and you would be surprised at how quickly, you know, consumption goes up once they start seeing value in data.

Series A Raise and Market Timing

Nathan Latka

04:07Oh, 100 a 100%. Okay. So about flat there. You launched this in 2020. You told me when you came on, I think it was last year that I think this is right. You guys did a 15,000,000 series a, right, last year?

Peter Fishman

04:17>> That's correct.

Nathan Latka

04:18Yes. Talk to me about that. Was that was the market already crashing at that point, or did you get that in right before things started going a little haywire?

Peter Fishman

04:24>> I I like to think of it as like Indiana Jones where, like, it just sneaks in as, like, the door is, like, sort of coming down. You know, I don't I don't I don't think we, you know, we we raised at the start of 2022, so not the world's best time, but but in hindsight, basically, yes, the world's effectively best time. Yeah. So, you know, I would say I would say that, obviously, we raised a a

04:50>> great round at a great time, which means that we have a long runway. So we are trying to still have a pretty forward looking perspective. You know, obviously, not that we see, you know, an end to our runway, but I think we also do wanna responsible. You know, this is not my first rodeo, and I and I've seen companies that have, you know, kinda used their runway poorly. So we wanna be pretty intentional about what we're

05:13>> trying to do.

Nathan Latka

05:14Oh, what's going on there, YouTube? Good to see you guys. Now imagine this. You love watching these interviews with SaaS founders, but imagine if we took all of the valuation data out from over 2,807 interviews I've done manually. Saves you a lot of time. Well, we've done this. We've built it into the beautiful interface inside of Founderpath. Check this out. I'll show you how you can access this in a second, but you log in, you connect

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07:37the interview. And was that series a pretty standard? Most folks are selling, call it, 15% of the company in their series a's back then. Were you sort of in that same range?

Peter Fishman

07:46>> Yeah. Exactly. So Okay.

Nathan Latka

07:48So you're pushing in a you're pushing in a 6 figure sorry. A seven sorry. A 9 figure valuation in over a 100,000,000?

Peter Fishman

07:55>> That would be obviously, if it were 15%, 15,000,000 on 15% would be would be a 100,000,000. So, yeah, I think, you know, obviously, you know, valuations and fundraising and and quantity of capital available were, you know, were obviously very different in 2021.

Nathan Latka

08:17But the I guess I not to put you on this, but the reason I asked that question is there's a lot of folks that did great rounds last year at really high multiples. I forget if I think you're at, like, 2 or 3,000,000 in in run rate when you did that, which is like a 40 or 50 x multiple. Mhmm. Right? Right? Something like that?

Peter Fishman

08:31>> No. We were at we were actually actually just south of a million. So actually, it was like Oh. You know, if you if you take if you take that if you take that number, it ends up being obviously, you know, a bigger multiple.

Nathan Latka

08:42Yeah. That's interesting. So I guess the reason I bring that up is obviously every startup you also sold 7% to YC back in the day for a 150 k. You're you're part of that program. You've gotta manage, obviously, the storyline you tell your team on their option value. And so if they see the market going crazy, but you were bragging a year ago about the how you got a really great valuation, minimize dilution, how do you

09:01now reverse that narrative and tell the updated storyline, which is, guys, your options are still above water. Don't worry.

Peter Fishman

09:07>> Well, I mean, no. We don't think of basically the private valuations or the sort of current state of the market as the the key indicator for kinda the success of the company at the end of the day. This company will be you know, especially for the employees, the the common holders, which include me, like, there's very few outcomes where the company ends up being worth exactly the amount that we raised. The company the modal outcome of

09:35>> the company, the the the mean and the median is that is that ultimately it goes to zero, but but there are many outcomes where the company is wildly successful. So, you know, we don't really we don't really harp on the likely outcome for many companies in the seed and series a stage. We we think about kind of what the opportunity is, and we race pretty hard to that. And, you know, in terms of options being underwater,

10:00>> you know, obviously, I've worked at at many companies. Some yeah.

Nathan Latka

10:03You know the drill. That's why I asked.

Peter Fishman

10:05>> Yeah. Some of the options were successful and and and some they weren't. A couple of things we did do. So we did do a reset four zero nine a. So it is the case that firms that are doing four zero nine a valuations have been very different about those valuations the back half of twenty twenty two than they were in 2021.

Nathan Latka

10:25So we're still having about 30% discounts to the to the last round, or are you seeing something different?

Peter Fishman

10:30>> In terms of the four zero nine a's?

Nathan Latka

10:31Yeah. The four zero

10:33nine a's all last year were coming in 30%, about 30% of what we were seeing the valuations at.

Peter Fishman

10:38>> I mean, to be to be total to be totally honest, I I damn. Now I'm doing the math in my head. It was it was steeper than that. So it was almost a 50% discount. So Okay. So,

10:51>> you know, I would say that

Nathan Latka

10:52Well, no. Not steeper. Sorry. What I was saying is what I was seeing was 70% discounts, where the valuation was 30%.

Peter Fishman

10:58>> Okay. So that was not what I was seeing in in our 04/2009 a, but but resetting that for employees was actually important. So it gives them greater confidence that greater confidence that they are gonna be above water and that there's a lot of value in essentially holding their their common shares and their their belief that, you know, our company can get to a really great place with our runway.

Customer Count and ARR

Nathan Latka

11:21Pete, what's the team size today? How many folks?

Peter Fishman

11:24>> We are 25 folks.

Nathan Latka

11:26So Oh, that's great. So you've grown without adding a lot of because I think last we spoke, you were at 20 or 21 people. So you haven't gone on some crazy hiring spree.

Peter Fishman

11:33>> Sorry. We're we're about five people bigger than when we last talked. Five or six people bigger than last talk. So, you know, you're talking about 20 or 30%. You know? And and to that end, you know, obviously, that sort of corresponded to a little, you know, honestly, a little shrink in what was our model. So our model was to double our people and, you know, more than triple our revenue, and I think that we've been a

11:55>> lot, you know, a lot more focused on doing everything efficiently. And we sort of got that that queue really early, I think, before a lot of companies really that became the the thing that everybody started doing.

Nathan Latka

12:07Yeah. The the LinkedIn post that went viral? Yeah. Very cool. Talk to me about customers today. So obviously, mentioned you're adding at the top of the funnel, lower ARPU, but you're also expanding with big ones. How many total customers are you serving today?

Net Dollar Retention and Cohort Performance

Peter Fishman

12:18>> No. We're below a 100 customers. I was really hoping to to get there for this podcast. And, you know, when you multiply that by our ACV, which I mentioned was between, you know, twenty and and and twenty five k. So we're we're pushing up against hitting, you know, 2,000,000. And, you know, I would say that, you know, our goal is to really expand on the low end. So we still see really great NDR in our cohorts.

Nathan Latka

12:47What's good? Like, above one thirty, 140%?

Peter Fishman

12:50>> Yeah. So so the answer is yes. So some of our initial cohorts were just ridiculous, so over $2. But but, you know, once we see those companies maturing and starting to really add all of their data sources, we're still seeing, you know, well above, you know, a dollar and a quarter and, you know, into the dollar 50.

Nathan Latka

13:10Yeah. So a 125, 150% NDR is what that means. Right?

Peter Fishman

13:13>> Yeah. Exactly.

Nathan Latka

13:14Yeah. Very, very cool.

Peter Fishman

13:16>> Alright. And I just benchmarked it against the dollar.

Nathan Latka

13:18No. I think that's great. I I I think it's actually made way easier to talk about it against a dollar. I'm a dollar, not a percent guy. Cool. I I guess any other things you're you're that you think are sort of is is non common advice, but you know is true because you've done this so much, advice you'd give other entrepreneurs?

Team Size and Hiring Discipline

Peter Fishman

13:36>> Well so, I mean, I would separate out a couple of things. So you mentioned, one, just trying to motivate the team with, you know, with with with equity, but being extremely generous given kind of the likelihoods of of potentially being out of the money. So you have this tension of are the teams valuing equity at a time of high inflation and, you know, kind of the world is collapsing, But what you get are the true believers

14:00>> in your company. So it's a little bit counterintuitive. The ones that are finding kind of that difficult to find motivation in it, you know, probably aren't quite the right fit for your team. So you you know, we offer extremely generous equity packages to, you know, join the company, which is also why we've had maybe a little bit smaller of a growth. Right? So we've been focused on giving out and and as a result, we also had

14:22>> a larger equity option pool because we did, you know, anticipate maybe a

Nathan Latka

14:26What's large? I mean, most standard ones are, like, five to 7% attached to the series a round. Did you do something bigger than that in terms of ESOP?

Equity Strategy and Team Motivation

Peter Fishman

14:32>> Yeah. We did do a little bit bigger than that. So and and and and with that, that sort of corresponds to the philosophy, and I think it matches what I think of as your opportunity, which is, you know, now is now is the classic time to join startups. These are when the heroic returns actually happen. We think that we have the runway to make something special happen. So it's kind of getting in at the right time,

14:56>> I think, gives us, like, really a unique opportunity as opposed to one where where there was so many competitors that were able to sort of join us along the way. So you mentioned that one from the start. The other one that I think is, you know, one that I talk about, we sell to SMBs, and and, typically, like hot SMBs. Right? Like, so companies that are growing, that are getting data, that that are growing with that.

15:18>> You know, that segment is gonna be a lot more dollar constrained. Right? And so you have this sort of counterbalance that I'm seeing, which is on the one hand, we sell a product that's supposed to substitute out a much, much, much, much, much more expensive product, data engineers. A data engineer might cost a 100 x what mozart costs. On the one hand, we have sort of the tailwind of we're a sort of a cheaper product than

15:42>> the data engineers. That's an incredible tailwind in this tight, like, tightening of money. On the other hand, you know, the companies that we sell to have had a huge money crunch. Maybe if you raised at the right time, great, but many companies that are sort of really tight on budgets and are, you know, worried about their next fundraise, we find that challenge of selling into that group. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Selling to SMBs: Tailwinds and Headwinds

Nathan Latka

16:02Interesting. Well, it'll certainly be a very interesting next next twelve months. It sounds like you have plenty of runway to get there, but on that note, Pete, let's wrap up here with the famous five. Number one, favorite book.

Famous Five: Favorite Book

Peter Fishman

16:11>> Mentioned this the first time, but I'm gonna go back to it. It's it's Moneyball. So Moneyball is the inspiration for finding unique things in data, and I've sort of based a lot of my personal career around it. I I started my career in sports analytics and now have made a career in tech analytics.

Nathan Latka

16:30Number two, is there a CEO you're following or studying?

Peter Fishman

16:34>> Yeah. I I again, I think I'm gonna go with another cop out, and I mentioned this last time.

Nathan Latka

16:40No Stewart Butterfield.

Peter Fishman

16:42>> I know. I'm going with Derek Steer. So I'm wearing a

Nathan Latka

16:45Oh, there you go.

Peter Fishman

16:46>> So, you know, Mode is a company that

Nathan Latka

16:49You were an early investor, weren't you, the first investor?

Peter Fishman

16:51>> David Sachs and I were the first two investors in Mode, the company. You know, they spun out of Yammer, which was a team that I I ran. And now, ironically, they're a great partner of ours and that it pairs nicely with mozart. But the thing that I respect most is that they have forged a really great path of selling to data analysts, and they think about the analyst so deeply. And then on top of it, they've

CEO Peter Follows and Mode Analytics

Peter Fishman

17:16>> started to be able to solve problems that that that you get to as you mature and mature, as you as you move upstream. So we really do wanna follow exactly in their path, and I'm gonna take a cue from, you know, from that whole founding team, but Derek in particular about sort of being a thought leader and that driving kind of that that growth into larger and larger organizations.

Nathan Latka

17:38And if you guys wanna learn from Derek, he is one of our keynotes at SaaS Open coming up in fourteen days in New York City, saasopen.com. Come learn. Great story. He's well, I don't know if that's public. I won't we won't chat about that yet. Number three, what's your favorite online tool for building the business?

Peter Fishman

17:54>> So favorite online tool well, we have to, you know, we have to certainly shout out some of our customers. So, like, I obviously am a big fan of Rippling. So, you know, we I'm not, believe it or not, an HR leader. I did mention you did mention off the top that I work in HR tech, but, you know, having somebody to sort of steal that work from me and making sure that, you know, our employees get

18:16>> paid is first and foremost right.

Nathan Latka

18:19Number four, how many hours of sleep do you get every night?

Peter Fishman

18:22>> I'm a light sleeper. I think they call it, like, a dolphin sleeper. So I do about five to six hours a night. And I I am drinking coffee now, but I I also drink coffee maybe two days a week. So I'm pretty I sort of freakishly able to to get by with, like, five or six hours of sleep.

Sleep, Age, and Personal Life

Nathan Latka

18:39That's great. I think you've had two birthdays since we last spoke. Are you 43 now?

Peter Fishman

18:43>> I am still 42.

Nathan Latka

18:45Oh, 42. Okay.

Peter Fishman

18:46>> Getting it you know, Dan Dan and I started the company effectively in our forties. So late to the entrepreneur game, though we did start a hot sauce company together ten years prior. But late to the entrepreneur game, but still going strong, still got the energy of a 24 year old even if I'm 42.

Nathan Latka

19:04That's great. Been married. Everything. Married? Any kids?

Peter Fishman

19:07>> Yo. Getting married. Oh, yeah. You mentioned Yeah. June, having so we'll, yeah, we'll see if I can keep keep my energy through the through the marriage and then what whatever comes next.

Nathan Latka

19:18That's awesome. And, Pete, last question. Something you wish you knew when you were 20.

Peter Fishman

19:23>> You know, I think the things that I I'm actually going to my I I I actually just signed up to go to my twenty fifth high school reunion. So I was so I was eight 18. And, you know, the things that I that I really wish I knew, you know, and I I think it's you know, I I actually just had this moment of of of thinking about it. You know, I I like to say that

19:44>> it it kind of all works out. You know, the things that I cared so much about, you know, I remembered caring about, you know, or not I was, like, captain of my, you know, high school math team or whether I, you know, was, you know, achieving some sort of, like, not meaningless accolade, but that kind of has translated into you know, that that desire for that and that push for that was exactly, you know, I think

20:07>> the things that sort of perpetuated me in in different stages of of professional growth. But it's also I I wish I had cared a little bit less about it, and I often feel silly about mentioning, like, high school accolades for for obvious reasons twenty five years later. So I I would say that it kind of all works out as the thing that I most, you know, wish I knew or or or could wrap my head around.

Something Peter Wishes He Knew at 20

Nathan Latka

20:30Guys, Pete Fishman, mozartdata.com. They've got big customers like Modern Treasury, called almost a 100 customers paying on average $1,800 a month. They're pushing a $2,000,000 run rate today in a really good position. They closed a $15,000,000 series a last year at pushing costs somewhere around a $100,000,000 valuation, and they're being pretty scrappy about it. They didn't go hire a 100 people. There are 25 folks full time today taking a disciplined approach to growth. We'll see what

20:53happens next. Pete, thanks for taking us to the top.

Peter Fishman

20:55>> Thanks, Nathan.

Nathan Latka

20:57One more thing before you go. We have a brand new show every Thursday at 1PM central. It's called Shark Tank for SaaS. We call it deal or bust. One founder comes on, three hungry buyers, they try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards, their expenses, their revenue, ARPU CAC, LTV, you name it, they share it and the buyers try and make a deal live. It is fun to watch every Thursday 1PM

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