Interview
How Windsor.ai Stayed Bootstrapped and Profitable While Serving 50 to 60 Customers at About $1,000 a Month (Interview with Founder Niklas Kolster)
- Interviewee
- Niklas KolsterFounder and CEO
Company Metrics at Interview Time
Average ARPU (at interview)
About $1,000 per month
Team Size (at interview)
10
Engineers (at interview)
9
Historical Snapshot
These numbers were reported by Niklas Kolster during the interview and are a historical snapshot, not current figures. See Windsor.ai’s current numbers.
Key Takeaways
- 01Windsor.ai launched in 2017 and had been profitable from the start
- 02The company was bootstrapped, with no outside capital raised at the time of the interview
- 03A team of 10 people at the time, 9 of them engineers
- 04Serving 50 to 60 customers at approximately $1,000 per month average ARPU
- 05MRR was around $40,000 a year before the interview
- 06Niklas owned a majority, though not more than 90%; two co-founders and an employee stock option pool also held equity
- 07Employees automatically joined the stock option pool after about six months with the company
- 08Growth came from both new customers and existing customers upgrading and expanding to more teams
- 09Churn was low, maybe one or two customers a month, often small accounts
- 10Windsor.ai did both data integration and multi-touch attribution modeling
Company Metrics at Time of Interview
| Metric | Value | Source |
|---|---|---|
| Year Founded | 2017 | Interview |
| Team Size (at interview) | 10 | Interview |
| Engineers (at interview) | 9 | Interview |
| Customers (at interview) | 50 to 60 | Interview |
| Average ARPU (at interview) | About $1,000 per month | Interview |
| MRR (about a year before the interview) | About $40,000 | Interview |
| Churn (customers lost) (at interview) | 1 to 2 per month | Interview |
| First Enterprise Deal | About $20,000 | Interview |
| Profitable | Yes, since launch | Interview |
Growth Breakdown
Revenue
Windsor.ai was generating around $1,000 per month per customer at the time of the interview, with MRR having grown from approximately $40,000 a year prior. Growth came from both new customer additions and expansion within existing accounts.
Customers
The company was serving 50 to 60 customers at the time of the interview. Niklas noted that churn was low, typically one or two customers per month, and those who left were often small accounts.
Team
Windsor.ai had a team of 10 people, with 9 of them being engineers. Niklas said almost everyone in the company could write SQL, which he called quite important, though marketing was becoming much more important too.
Profitability and Funding
Windsor.ai had been bootstrapped and profitable from the start, since its launch in 2017. The company received inbound interest from venture capital firms but had not pursued any external funding at the time of the interview.
Growth Strategy
Cold Outreach to Enterprise Customers
Windsor.ai started in 2017 by directly contacting enterprise companies and meeting with many decision makers. This hands-on sales approach landed the first deal at around $20,000.
Shift to Self-Service and Low-Touch Model
About 18 months before the interview, the company began focusing on making the product more self-service and low-touch. Niklas credited this shift as key to separating custom work from scalable growth.
Usage-Based Pricing and Upsells
Windsor.ai's pricing page had several usage-based paywalls, including the number of reports, users, data source connectors, destinations and rows. Niklas named the number of data sources and the data volume as the main upgrade drivers, along with how much support a customer needed.
Expansion Revenue Within Existing Accounts
Some existing customers had been upgrading a lot and expanding to different teams in their companies, which Niklas called quite good. He said growth came from both new and existing customers.
Employee Ownership Through a Stock Option Pool
Windsor.ai set up a stock option pool that employees joined automatically after about six months with the company. Niklas said they had really tried to make everyone who had been with the company for a while an owner.
Best Quotes
“We are bootstrapped and... Yeah. We have been profitable from the start and are are still quite profitable.”
“Per month, it's it's around 1,000.”
“We launched in 2017. We we started started working with enterprise customers, started to solve this this data silo problem for them. And, I've been going since then.”
“I think it was maybe eighteen months ago that we've started to really, really focus on making the product more self-service, much more low touch, because that that that seemed to us to be to be like the way to to grow, to really really separate separate, like, the the custom work from from the growth and and so on.”
“Today, it's it's six... 50, 60. Around that range.”
“Maybe, like, one or two customers per month or so.”
“Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Little bit. A little bit. Some customers have been upgrading a lot and also expanding the different teams in the company and so on. So that has been that has been quite quite good. Maybe 10, 20% or so.”
What Happened Next
At the time of this interview, Windsor.ai was a bootstrapped, profitable marketing attribution platform serving 50 to 60 customers with a team of 10. Niklas had no plans to raise outside capital and was focused on improving the product's UX, onboarding, and predictive revenue features. Visit the Windsor.ai company profile on GetLatka for the most current available data.
View Windsor.ai’s current profile and metricsFull Transcript
Chapters
- 0:00Introduction and Background
- 0:24Windsor.ai Launch and Early Enterprise Sales
- 0:41First Enterprise Deal
- 1:31Shift to Self-Service and ARPU
- 2:48Bootstrapped and Profitable Since Day One
- 2:59Team Size, Equity Split and Stock Options
- 4:25Customer Count
- 4:46MRR Growth Over the Past Year
- 5:16Pricing Page and Upsell Drivers
- 6:08Capital Raise Plans and VC Inbound
- 8:00Product Roadmap
- 8:34Churn and Expansion Revenue
- 9:22Famous Five
Introduction and Background
Nathan Latka
00:00Hello, everyone. My guest today is Niklas Kolster. He's a serial entrepreneur and founder of Finland's first VoIP company. He worked with data science and algorithms for ten years in ecommerce and large enterprises and a startup that was acquired by Facebook. He realized that algorithms were rarely the problem, but data silos and were the real problem and so let's solve that problem with Windsor.ai. Will you... Niklas, you're ready to take the top?
Niklas Kolster
00:22Yes.
Nathan Latka
00:23Okay. So what year...
Windsor.ai Launch and Early Enterprise Sales
Nathan Latka
00:24Tell us what year you launched Windsor.
Niklas Kolster
00:27We launched in 2017. We we started started working with enterprise customers, started to solve this this data silo problem for them. And, I've been going since then.
First Enterprise Deal
Nathan Latka
00:41When you say enterprise customers, I mean, what was the size of your first deal that you closed? Do you remember?
Niklas Kolster
00:46The size of the first deal, it was it was maybe 20,000 or so.
Nathan Latka
00:52How did you do that? I mean, that's rare to launch and go from zero to your first customer is a $20,000 deal.
Niklas Kolster
00:59Yeah. We started... That was... We started very very enterprise type sales so that we started started contacting contacting companies quite a lot. We did a lot of sales back then. Met met so many different so many different companies, decision makers and yeah, then we found found some very happy, some very happy happy customers that that trusted in us. Of course, there was there was quite a lot quite a lot of work to do with it.
Shift to Self-Service and ARPU
Nathan Latka
01:31Now fast fast forward to today, are you still selling on average your plan size is $20,000 per year?
Niklas Kolster
01:38No. That has been a big change that we have been doing so that we have we have been really really automating automating the product, making it more... Much more self-service. And I think it was maybe eighteen months ago that we've started to really, really focus on making the product more self-service, much more low touch, because that that that seemed to us to be to be like the way to to grow, to really really separate separate, like,
02:08the the custom work from from the growth and and so on. And and, yeah, I think there's some interview with Jason Lemkin where he says that it's much easier to move upmarket more towards enterprise than to move down market. And and... Yeah. Yeah. We noticed that.
Nathan Latka
02:25It's always it's always greener on the other side. Every s... Everyone listening right now with a $40 average ARPU wants to have a $40,000 average ARPU. Everyone that's enterprise wants a bigger top of funnel, wants to move downstream. That's how it works.
Niklas Kolster
02:37Yeah. True. True. Yeah. Yeah. But...
Nathan Latka
02:39Yeah. What's the... So what's the average customer paying you now per day? Probably per month.
Niklas Kolster
02:44Per month, it's it's around 1,000.
Nathan Latka
02:47Okay.
Bootstrapped and Profitable Since Day One
Nathan Latka
02:48Thousand. So you've con... You've come downstream a little bit. Now have you done all this bootstrapped or did you raise capital?
Niklas Kolster
02:54We are bootstrapped and... Yeah. We have been profitable from the start and are are still quite profitable.
Team Size, Equity Split and Stock Options
Nathan Latka
02:59Who's we?
03:00Do you
03:00have co founders?
Niklas Kolster
03:02I have I have two two founders that that joined quite quite early on.
Nathan Latka
03:08And how did you think about the equity split between the three you? That's always challenging early on.
Niklas Kolster
03:13Yeah. Yeah. But it was it was me who started started and was really the driver. So so it was quite quite straightforward in that sense.
Nathan Latka
03:22So do you still own more than, call it, 90% of the business?
Niklas Kolster
03:25Not more than 90, but but a majority. Yeah.
Nathan Latka
03:29Okay. Got it. Cool. So maybe more than 70 or 80%. Your two cofounders own some. Is there a stock option pool for employees?
Niklas Kolster
03:36Yes. Yes. We have really tried so that everyone everyone who who has been with the company for a while is is also an owner.
Nathan Latka
03:43Tell us how set that up.
03:45That sometimes people don't understand how
03:46to set that up.
Niklas Kolster
03:46Yeah. That... We have we have a stock option pool that that everyone who has been with the company can join and and and when they have been with us for for six months or so, then they can... They automatically become part of it.
Nathan Latka
04:01And how many people on the team today?
Niklas Kolster
04:03We are 10 people today.
Nathan Latka
04:0510 people. How many engineers?
Niklas Kolster
04:09Nine.
Nathan Latka
04:10Oh, wow. It's almost all engineers.
Niklas Kolster
04:12Yeah. Yeah. Almost everyone in the company can write SQL and so on. We believe that's quite important. But of course, now it becomes much more important to also focus on marketing and so on.
Customer Count
Nathan Latka
04:25Of course. Now, how many customers are you serving today?
Niklas Kolster
04:28Today, it's it's six... 50, 60. Around that range.
Nathan Latka
04:34Fifth fifth... 50 or 60. Okay. So I mean, can I can I take 55, right, times a thousand dollar ARPU? You're doing about $50,000 per month?
Niklas Kolster
04:44Yeah. It's it's in that ballpark. Yeah. Yeah.
MRR Growth Over the Past Year
Nathan Latka
04:46Okay. And when you go back a year from today, what was monthly recurring revenue?
Niklas Kolster
04:52It was... I think it was it was around 40.
Nathan Latka
04:57Okay. 40?
Niklas Kolster
04:58Yeah.
Nathan Latka
04:58So how how did
04:59you how did you get how did you get that growth? Is it coming from adding new customers or expanding old customers?
Niklas Kolster
05:04It... It's both. It's both.
Nathan Latka
05:06Okay. Okay. So it's coming from both. But again, a lot of this is happening in the product because you don't have a sales team. So it's all it's all inside the product.
05:14Right?
Niklas Kolster
05:15Yeah. I'm through. I'm through.
Pricing Page and Upsell Drivers
Nathan Latka
05:16Now you've done a great job setting up your pricing page at windsor.ai/pricing. There's a lot of things...
05:23There's a
05:23lot of paywalls users can hit, right, based off the usage, the utility value. So number of reports, number of users, data source connectors, destinations, number of rows. Which one of these sort of number based upsells has been the most effective for you? Which one do people use the most?
Niklas Kolster
05:39Yeah. It's still it's still many times a little bit a discussion when when companies upgrade. But but, like, the day... The number of data sources, the data volume, and and so on. That's... And also a little bit how much support is is needed. The... These are the drivers.
Nathan Latka
05:58Are you doing any upsells for setup setup fees?
Niklas Kolster
06:03No. No. We're we're not doing that.
Nathan Latka
06:05So what is that?
Niklas Kolster
06:07Yeah. Yep.
Capital Raise Plans and VC Inbound
Nathan Latka
06:08Any plans to raise capital?
Niklas Kolster
06:11Not right now. Not right now. I mean, we have been we have been receiving quite a lot of inbound VC VC contacts, but but we have not yet seen the case. But maybe it comes someday.
Nathan Latka
06:25What what what inbound for you from a VC was the most exciting? Did they name a valuation?
Niklas Kolster
06:31No. We didn't go that far in the in the discussions.
Nathan Latka
06:35What did they say?
Niklas Kolster
06:39Yeah. Quite many have been have been in... Like, interested in the space and and so on. Maybe there is some some correlation between some of our competitors raising capital and the activity is increasing there.
06:52I'm not sure.
Nathan Latka
06:52Who are some of your competitors that have raised?
Niklas Kolster
06:56It would... Yeah. It would probably be be, of course, like, funnel.io and and maybe also Rockerbox because we also do the attribution modeling.
Nathan Latka
07:07What box?
Niklas Kolster
07:08Rockerbox could could be one from The US.
Nathan Latka
07:12Rocker... Rockerbox.
Niklas Kolster
07:14Yeah. Yeah. Because we also do the multi touch attribution modeling. We we don't only do the data integration. So this... But the attribution modeling has been quite an important part
07:26for our customers also.
Nathan Latka
07:27So so you're doing about $700,000, 60... $600,000 per year right now in terms of your annual run rate. If someone came and offered you, you know, 10,000,000 all cash up front today to sell the business, would you sell?
Niklas Kolster
07:40Not sure. Not sure. Would would have to discuss, of course, also in the in the team and so on. But, yeah, definitely would think about it. Yeah.
Nathan Latka
07:48What sorts of things would you need to think about?
Niklas Kolster
07:51Like the... We'd have to discuss, we'd have to discuss a little bit, like what are... What's the vision and and those kind of things.
Product Roadmap
Nathan Latka
08:00Very cool. Alright. What's the next... On on product road map? What are you what are guys releasing next?
Niklas Kolster
08:06We... Yeah. We we have been focusing so much on the UX, improving improving the UX, the onboarding. And and now next, we're going to to improve the whole... All the features around predicting revenue, predicting success for the campaigns, and these kind of things. So these these are quite important. And at the same time, making... Integrating different data sources easier so that it becomes easier to also add CRM data into the into the whole data stream and
Churn and Expansion Revenue
Niklas Kolster
08:34so on.
Nathan Latka
08:34Are you tracking churn at all, Niklas?
Niklas Kolster
08:37Not so much. Of course, we we get very sad when we lose a customer, but it has not been happening so much.
08:45Maybe, like, one or two customers per month or so.
Nathan Latka
08:49Okay. And how much revenue do they usually represent?
Niklas Kolster
08:53It it varies. It varies. Many times, they are small.
Nathan Latka
08:57Okay. Got it. Alright. And and do you have real expansion revenue? Upselling?
Niklas Kolster
09:05Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Little bit. A little bit. Some customers have been upgrading a lot and also expanding the different teams in the company and so on. So that has been that has been quite quite good. Maybe 10, 20% or so.
Famous Five
Nathan Latka
09:22Okay. Very cool. Nick, that's good stuff, man. Let's wrap up here with the famous five. Number one, what's your favorite business book?
Niklas Kolster
09:30It would... I would probably mention this this Creative Selection. It's it's a little bit unknown unknown book, but it it describes Apple's how they how they develop the iPhone and all the challenges, all the different engineering problems they have to solve. It's really fascinating.
Nathan Latka
09:48Creative Selection: Inside Apple's Design Process During the Golden Age of Steve Jobs.
Niklas Kolster
09:53Yeah.
Nathan Latka
09:53Alright. Number two, is there a CEO you're following or studying?
Niklas Kolster
09:57I'm not following any any particular CEO. I'm trying to pick up things from here and there as much as possible.
Nathan Latka
10:04Number three, what's your favorite online tool for building Windsor?
Niklas Kolster
10:09would actually have to say that it's a Discord. We rely quite a lot on Discord, the chat tool.
Nathan Latka
10:15Number four, how many hours of sleep do get every night?
Niklas Kolster
10:18Eight.
Nathan Latka
10:19And what's your situation, married, single kids?
Niklas Kolster
10:22Married, with two kids.
Nathan Latka
10:24Two kids. How old are you?
Niklas Kolster
10:26I'm 42.
Nathan Latka
10:2742.
10:28Last question. What's something you wish you knew when you were 20?
Niklas Kolster
10:32This is... First when I thought about this, it's it's very it's very easy to to not come up with anything. But I think the stuff from from Y Combinator, especially from Sam Sam Altman and Paul Graham, that's really good to just focus on on talking to to users and building the product.
Nathan Latka
10:50Guys, Windsor.ai marketing attribution. They bootstrapped, launched in 2017, just broke $55,000 per month in revenue with their team of 10. Again, completely bootstrapped, 56 customers, $12,000 average ACV as they look to continue to scale. Niklas, thanks for taking us to the top.
Niklas Kolster
11:05And thanks for having me.
Nathan Latka
11:08One more thing before you go. We have a brand new show every Thursday at 1PM central. It's called Shark Tank for SaaS. We call it deal or bust. One founder comes on, three hungry buyers, they try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards, their expenses, their revenue, ARPU, CAC, LTV, you name it, they share it. And the buyers try and make a deal live. It is fun to watch every Thursday, 1PM
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12:15that at nathanlatka.com/slack. In the meantime, I'm hanging out with you here on YouTube. I'll be in the comments for the next thirty minutes. Feel free to let me know what you thought about this episode. If you enjoyed it, click the thumbs up. We get a lot of haters that are mad at how aggressive I am on these shows, but I do it so that we can all learn. We have to counter those people. We gotta push
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