How Clockify Reached 600,000 Monthly Active Users and Nearly 30 Enterprise Customers with Zero Ad Spend (Interview with Nenad Milanović)

Introduction and COING Background

Nathan Latka

00:01Hello, everyone. My guest today is Nenad Milanović. He is an entrepreneur with fifteen years of managerial experience in engineering and software development, the founder of Clockify, a time tracking software with over a million users worldwide. His companies, COING, develops software as a service solutions, but also has its own products as well as invests in technology startups. Alright, Nenad, are you ready to take us to the top?

Nenad Milanović

00:23Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for having me.

Nathan Latka

00:25So let me just be clear. COING, c o I n g, is that like an agency that holds all your SaaS projects?

Nenad Milanović

00:31Pretty much, yes. Yeah. That's the holding company.

Nathan Latka

00:34And Clockify.me is your biggest one?

Nenad Milanović

00:37Well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, Clockify is currently the only successful product that we have in portfolio.

Nathan Latka

00:42Well, we should either talk about all the failures or we could just focus on the one success. Let me just ask the ratio, then we'll focus on Clockify. How many ones failed versus this one success?

Nenad Milanović

00:52Eight fail, two success.

What Clockify Does and How It Makes Money

Nathan Latka

00:55I love that. All right, let's talk about Clockify. What's the company do and how do you make money?

Nenad Milanović

01:00Well, it's time tracking software, right? Pretty known concept. We make money by charging subscription per workspace. It's 10 and $30 a month in the cloud. We also have a self hosted enterprise edition that costs significantly more because

01:20each time when we have a big customer, they have some special needs that we have to customize. That's where we make 80% of our revenue.

Enterprise Cohort and Pricing

Nathan Latka

01:30Interesting. If you looked at what the average customer is paying you per month or per year on a logo basis, like the company basis, not a seat basis, the company, what would that number be?

Nenad Milanović

01:39So in the cloud, the average customer is $19 so $1.09.

Nathan Latka

01:46Per month?

Nenad Milanović

01:46Yeah. And when it comes

01:50to enterprise edition, that goes too significantly more. So so I'm not gonna pull that one into into this average.

Nathan Latka

01:59But you said 80% of your revenue comes from the enterprise cohort. Correct?

Nenad Milanović

02:02Yeah.

Nathan Latka

02:03So what is the enterprise? Let's just talk about that for a second. The enterprise cohort on average is paying about what per month?

Nenad Milanović

02:09Well, starts at $450. That's the minimum that you have to pay to have your company use Clockify on your own server. But like I said, average amount is a lot bigger than that.

Nathan Latka

02:24Okay. Well, so I need a little help understanding this so I can frame my questions, right? You're either selling $19 per month plans to SMBs, or you're selling $450 per month kind of on their own server plans, or you're selling something way more expensive than that to much, much bigger enterprises. Which one is it? Well, I mean, your your main cohort?

Nenad Milanović

02:45Yeah. So if you define a main cohort by where the biggest revenue is coming from, that's the big enterprise companies like HP and so forth.

Nathan Latka

02:56Okay. And on average, what are those enterprises paying you per year for Clockify?

Nenad Milanović

03:00Well, it's typically hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Nathan Latka

03:03Okay. So what is $100,000 a fair average?

Nenad Milanović

03:08It's more than that. So I can't really go into specifics of that.

Nathan Latka

03:12Well, I don't want talk about any specific customers, but I wanna understand if it's a $100,000 or $900,000. Right? I mean, generally speaking

Nenad Milanović

03:17It can it can be it can be $900,000. We have that and... Or it can be $150,000. We also

Nathan Latka

03:24have What is the average?

Nenad Milanović

03:25That's why I don't wanna go to an every customer call because we don't have time.

Nathan Latka

03:27The average in the enterprise is what? Is it 200, 300, 400?

Nenad Milanović

03:30I'm sorry. Can't disclose that information.

Nathan Latka

03:32Why can't you disclose an average in your enterprise cohort? We're not talking about any specific customer.

Nenad Milanović

03:36Well, typically I'm not communicating that data.

03:41Typically, I know what I can say and what I cannot. This is unfortunately one of the things that I cannot give you the exact number.

Nathan Latka

03:50Okay. You've already told me though it's between one hundred and nine hundred. I'm asking you for a little bit more specificity around that. You've already shared the basics. Why would you not share the average?

Nenad Milanović

04:00Well, like I said, I just have a I just have a list of things that that I know that I can say. And some other things that I'm not

Nathan Latka

04:08Oh, you working for somebody as it's not your company?

Nenad Milanović

04:13Well, it's my company. I'm 100% owner of the company.

Company Founding Story and Launch

Nathan Latka

04:17Okay, well listen, I'll just do my best to ask questions without knowing what kind of that cohort is. So tell us more about the backstory here. When did you launch the company? What year?

Nenad Milanović

04:26So it was, I guess the real launch was August 2017 and we started building it in, March. Let's say, yeah, it took us four months to release the initial version. I would say that August 2017 is the birthday when we actually posted the product on Product Hunt.

Team Size and Engineering Breakdown

Nathan Latka

04:47Okay. What's your team size today? How many folks on the product?

Nenad Milanović

04:51Well, on Clockify, there's around 70 people now.

Nathan Latka

04:55Seven zero? Yeah. And what's the breakdown? How many are engineers?

Nenad Milanović

05:01Around half, so around 30 something people are engineering. Okay. That can be quality assurance or front end.

Enterprise Sales Process and Close Rate

Nathan Latka

05:10And do you have... Do... Are the price points... It sounds like if you have an enterprise price point, you have some sort of sales motion built. Do you have kind of the SDR to AE to CS rep kind of system built out or no?

Nenad Milanović

05:20Well, we don't get that many inquiries for the Enterprise Edition. Typically, if that goes through our support team, I'm the one who's gonna be doing all the sales. So I'm pretty much the

05:38only person that someone will discuss enterprise deals with. So...

Nathan Latka

05:44Okay. Well, just to clear then, with that in mind, you can't be processing a ton of $100,000 plus ACV accounts. Those all require touch. If you're the only guy handling them, you have a limit to how many you can handle per month.

Nenad Milanović

05:58Well,

06:00like I said, I maybe do one call a week that can be considered a qualified lead.

Nathan Latka

06:08An enterprise level lead. Yeah.

Nenad Milanović

06:12So, yeah, Yeah. On average, it's one call a week that I that I do... That I demo the product and show it to people that are actually considering investing into on premise time tracking solution.

Nathan Latka

06:25And so since 2017, what you've closed a couple of handful of those two, three, four, something like that?

Nenad Milanović

06:30Well, we typically close one enterprise account a month.

Nathan Latka

06:34So you're having five calls and you're closing one of those. So you have a 20% close rate on a demo of $100,000 plus

Nenad Milanović

06:41Well, wouldn't say that because we get a lot of inquiries that go to our support email and sales email. I would say that one out of the 100 comes to talk to me.

06:54So no, it's not that closure rate. Only what I discussed.

Nathan Latka

06:59Asked you who's doing the enterprise sales and you said you are the only person that do the enterprise sales. Is that accurate?

Nenad Milanović

07:05So how it works is that someone emails our email that it's on the website, it goes to our support team that is also a sales team at the same time, but in email manner. Right? So they typically disclose starting points, starting figures, and typically people just don't move forward to that. And then if they do, and if they're comfortable about talking about these kind of digits that require us, that can actually make it viable for us

07:40to spend that much time on one account, that's what comes to me. Typically,

07:46that's only one one call a week.

Nathan Latka

07:49And those are enterprise those that's your enterprise cohort, big a 100,000 plus ACVs.

Nenad Milanović

07:54Typically. Yeah.

Nathan Latka

07:56Yeah. So that that was back to my point. If you're doing one of those calls per week, how how... And I said you have closed... You said you've closed one of those per month. If you're doing five a month and you're closing one a month, that's a 20% close rate on your enterprise cohort. Is that accurate?

Nenad Milanović

08:10Well, if if we look at that part of the funnel, and I'm pretty much the last part of the funnel, that would be correct. But we can't observe it in that way because there's a lot more leads that No. That don't

Nathan Latka

08:23You're misunderstanding me, Nenad. I'm only talking about your qualified leads for enterprise. I don't care about everything that hits support. I don't care about the 1000s of leads at your support that don't turn in anything. I'm talking about the qualified enterprise leads, which said you're the only one handling those. And you're handling one of one a week, so five a month. And I'm just asking, are you... You said you're closing one of those a month out

08:45of the five. That would be a 20% close rate on your enterprise qualified leads.

Nenad Milanović

08:50Well, if you if you like to observe it from that part of the funnel, I guess that would be yes.

Nathan Latka

08:55Well, do your enterprise leads go anywhere else except to your desk?

Nenad Milanović

09:00Well, yeah. I mean, if you close the deal, it's it's gonna go to engineering and it's gonna go to the account manager. No. No.

Nathan Latka

09:06I mean, before up to closing the deal. You are the only guy close... You don't have a inbound sales team focused on enterprise accounts where there's a base plus commission and an SDR to an AE to a CS rep.

Nenad Milanović

09:17No. We do not have that.

Nathan Latka

09:18Yeah. So it's you. You're the guy. You're the you're the you're the you're the rainmaker.

Nenad Milanović

09:22Well, I'm sure we could improve if someone better would be doing that, but at the moment it's only me and it's doing quite good. I mean, we have a really, really good value in the free tier and that attracts a lot of users.

Nathan Latka

09:39That's a $19 per month plan?

Nenad Milanović

09:41No, no. We also have a plan that is absolutely free and you can sign up as many users as you want.

Google Rankings, No Ad Spend and Bootstrapping

Nathan Latka

09:50Talk me through that. Right? So that's your top of funnel. How are people how are people finding you in the first place?

Nenad Milanović

09:55So if you type time tracking, we're gonna be first in Google. So if you type time tracker, we're gonna be first in Google. With that position in Google, it's very easy for us to get the top of the funnel.

Nathan Latka

10:07I just type time tracking into Google and skipping over the ad results. I see timetracking.cotoggle.com Zapier and then clockify in the number four spot. And you're saying that number four spot drives you a lot of traffic?

Nenad Milanović

10:19Well, typically, it's the first spot. So I guess it's it's I guess it's a bit different when you're looking from that location where you are now.

Nathan Latka

10:28Sure. Yeah. I'm The US.

Nenad Milanović

10:31But on average, our position is 1.2 or something like that.

Nathan Latka

10:35Got it. But that's driving most of organic.

Nenad Milanović

10:38Yeah. I mean, we spend $0 on advertising and yeah, that's... Most of our traffic and most of our top of the funnel leads are coming from search engines.

Nathan Latka

10:49It's, you know, it's impressive. Mean, it's impressive. Your Alexa ranking is really high as well, 9,700 traffic rank in The US. Your little widget under your signup button says 48,310 people signed up last month. Those are free people using the tool. Yeah, that's really great. So how have you I mean, there's there's some lessons built in there, right? So how have you been able to rank so well from an SEO perspective? Is this like a something

11:11you're really good at?

Nenad Milanović

11:13No. I mean, we... If you if you actually do the SEO analysis of us, you you will you will conclude that Google is actually telling the truth that that the content is the most important thing. And it's not that we have a a great content in terms of that we have some sort of articles. It's just that we provide a really high value for the service and for the product.

Nathan Latka

11:36Yeah. There's a lot... No. No. No. I'm sorry. And I don't believe that. And I'll tell you why. There's a lot of companies that have the most amazing products, but no one knows about them. So it doesn't matter. So they have to create great content, great SEO, great mousetraps to get people to view the product. And then it snowballs. So I don't believe it that you just you have the best product and magically everything else fell

11:56into place. You did things tactically to make sure you had top of funnel.

Nenad Milanović

12:00Well, that's a good assumption, but it's not it's not that. So the thing is, if you do the analysis of the market of time tracking products, you actually make a conclusion that our product in the free edition gives the biggest value. It's literally $10 a workspace and you can sign up 1,000 people. If you're a company with 100 employees, you can get a time tracking with additional features for $10 a month.

Nathan Latka

12:26Yeah, you understand I'm agreeing with you, right? I am agreeing with you that you have the most valuable I'm saying I'm going take you at your word. You have the most valuable free product. I'm not arguing with that. What I'm arguing is you can have the most valuable free product and still nobody finds you. You have done tactical things to make sure people find you like this SEO ranking. And what I'm asking, why are you rolling

12:45your eyes when I say that people don't You rank number three for

Nenad Milanović

12:48I no know it sounds impossible and crazy, but we actually only have one person doing the SEO. Like I said, if you do the analysis, if you actually use one of those tools to count our backlinks and so forth, all these things that people are focusing on, you're going to see that we kind of suck at that.

13:10I don't know what Google likes about us, but I would assume that it's a big number of people coming, signing up, and coming back again.

Nathan Latka

13:18Okay. Got That's my assumption. Got it. That's fair enough. You're saying it's not an SEO play. It's just Google recognizing that people keep coming back to the site over and over and that lots of people are signing up every month and they're

Nenad Milanović

13:28factoring They that into their page have some sort of mechanism. I mean, if you click on the result and half a second later you click back, they're going to know about that.

Nathan Latka

13:38Yeah. They

Nenad Milanović

13:39don't need they don't they don't need to to take your data from your browser. They're going to know about that. Yeah. So I'm... I I think it's connected to that because we don't have backlinks. We don't have we don't have PR. You're actually the first guy whoever got in touch with us to give us some sort of coverage.

Nathan Latka

13:55Means I'm pretty smart because you're building something pretty special, right?

Nenad Milanović

14:00Well, it is, but like I said, no one is covering it in terms of... There's no big outlet that actually made a coverage about us.

Nathan Latka

14:09Who who cares about press? They they cover they cover shit companies usually anyway that have raised a bunch of capital that are burning cash and the and the founders are broke. You're doing it the right way. Right? That's why I wanted to have you on.

Nenad Milanović

14:19Well, thank you.

Nathan Latka

14:21Have you raised... Hold on. Hold on. Have you raised capital or are you bootstrapped?

Nenad Milanović

14:24We bootstrapped.

Nathan Latka

14:25I love it. See, I knew I was gonna like you a lot. This is perfect. So bootstrapped. How have you... When you launched the company back in 2017, how did you fund the original growth? Was that from COING, kind of other agency revenue?

Nenad Milanović

14:38Yeah, so let me tell you. In the consulting industry, you don't have a project always. Maybe some companies will always have a project, but sometimes it happens that you have some people on the bench, At that time, I had eight engineers on the bench and I just didn't know what to do with them. I was like, Cool, let's build a time tracker. We launched the product after four months of work with eight engineers, and the initial

15:07version was quite useful actually. It was buggy, of course, and we didn't have any paid plans, but it was useful enough for us and a lot of our colleagues as well, and that's how it came into existence.

Monthly Active Users and Paid Customer Count

Nathan Latka

15:20And how many totals over the past three years, right, since 2017 today, how many total customers are you now serving?

Nenad Milanović

15:26So, okay, so if we're talking about the monthly active users, we have in the cloud, we have around 600,000.

Nathan Latka

15:36Okay. Now are all paid or are those free and paid?

Nenad Milanović

15:39No. Most of them are not paid. And when it comes to the paid customers,

15:46it's it's in tens of thousands, but but active users are a lot bigger.

Nathan Latka

15:53Okay. Can can you share when you say tens of that, I mean, can you share more specifically? You're talking like 40,000 or 50,000?

Nenad Milanović

15:59No, I'm sorry. I cannot. I can only say that it's in tens of thousands.

Nathan Latka

16:03Okay. Well, that's fine. I'll just basically take that. Right? I'll take the kind of the worst case, right, which is 10,000 people paying. You said that plan is $19 a month. So that puts you at to about 200,000.

Nenad Milanović

16:13That's the average. That's the average. We have 10 and $30 a month. So average is 19.

Nathan Latka

16:20Cool. So again, assuming worst case scenario here, you said tens of thousands, let's just assume 10,000, which is the minimum, At $20 a month puts you about $200,000 per month right now in revenue. Is that generally accurate?

Nenad Milanović

16:33Well, yeah, it's it's it's good to assume that it's exceeding that.

Revenue Growth Rate Since Charging Began

Nathan Latka

16:38That's good. And then what does growth rate look like over the past twelve months? So if you're at, call it north of 200 today, where we at exactly a year ago? Do you know?

Nenad Milanović

16:46When it comes to the revenues, it's not slowing down. Ever since we started charging for something, our revenues are growing almost 30% month over month.

Nathan Latka

17:00Okay. And

Nenad Milanović

17:00it's still like that. I'm kind of watching every month and hoping it's not going to slow down, and it's still not slowing down.

Nathan Latka

17:07I can't do that math in my head that quickly, 20% month over month growth over the past twelve months. Can you help me with that matter? So do you remember what you're doing a year ago?

Nenad Milanović

17:18Well, we started charging in April 2018. So Oh, okay.

Nathan Latka

17:23So April, so that was literally about a year ago.

Nenad Milanović

17:26Yeah.

Nathan Latka

17:26Okay. Well, let me ask a different question. When you closed out 2018, so that would have been like six or seven months ago. Do you remember what you were what December 2018 MRR was?

Nenad Milanović

17:38Even if I did remember, I I wouldn't be able to tell tell it publicly like this.

Nathan Latka

17:43Okay. Well, No one that.

Nenad Milanović

17:45No one gives these kind of information online.

Nathan Latka

17:47You You know I haven't listened to you haven't listened to the show. I've had almost 3,000 people on and almost every single one of them has. So you are just a unique guy, but I like that. It's working. Okay?

Nenad Milanović

17:56I'm sorry about that.

Nathan Latka

17:58Don't apologize. I think it's fine. What I do want to say though is it's fair to say that over the past twelve months you've gone from nothing, a bench of eight engineers and burn from nothing to over $200,000 per month in revenue. That's accurate.

Nenad Milanović

18:09Yeah. Yep.

Free-to-Paid Conversion and Pricing Model

Nathan Latka

18:10Great. How have you, where did you decide to put the paywall up and the free plan to convert? You know, you have 42,000 people signing up each month for free. How do you know where to start charging?

Nenad Milanović

18:20So, so what we did, was actually pretty fair in my opinion. Everything that we started with that was free and that started attracting users, everything is still free. In April 2018, we added a bunch of new features that we said, Okay, this is the stuff that we're going to charge, So we're not taking away anything that used to be free. So here's some new stuff and if you want them, you pay us $10 a month. And

18:45then a couple months later, actually around six months later, we added another batch of features that we said, okay, these are the premium features. If you need these, pay us $30 per per workspace.

Nathan Latka

18:59Hold on, just to be clear, do you not have any usage based upselling? It's all feature based upselling?

Nenad Milanović

19:07Exactly. So like I said, even if you have hundreds of employees, you're still going to pay $30 a month.

Nathan Latka

19:15Hold on. If I have 10,000 employees, and all I need is access to your API apps and integrations, I can get I can do that at zero on your $0 plan.

Nenad Milanović

19:28Yep.

Nathan Latka

19:29Yeah. So the only what I'm asking is the only reason people would go to $10 per month, let's say now I have still 10,000 people right on my team, I could pay just $30 a month for all 10,000 total to use the tool and they'll get hide pages, alerts, project templates, time for others. So it's $30 just because it's not per seat. That's $30 a month for the entire company of 10,000 people.

Nenad Milanović

19:51Exactly.

Nathan Latka

19:52Okay. How do you not lose money on me? It costs you more to serve 10,000 active users than $30 a month.

Nenad Milanović

20:00Well, maybe the secret is that most of my employees are in Serbia.

Nathan Latka

20:07No, your cost of goods sold on AWS for serving 10,000 active users.

Nenad Milanović

20:15Nope, that's maybe if you're serving images like in JPEG or something, but if you're actually time tracking, all these time entries are really small transactions.

Nathan Latka

20:24No, no, let me ask you a different question. You said you're processing, you have no options here for $100,000 per year, but you told me you're closing $100,000 per year deals. So what are people buying for $100,000 per year if your most expensive I see. Your most expensive planning is $450 per month.

Nenad Milanović

20:39Yeah. But it's self hosted, so you can take the software, install it on your own server, and not worry about that we're gonna leak some data or stuff like that.

Nathan Latka

20:47Okay, so those big enterprise ones are where you're doing like basically on prem installations. Yep. You have no plans where you're charging per seat or per number of users, projects or reports.

Nenad Milanović

20:57We do, but that's the enterprise plan.

Nathan Latka

21:01Well, on. On. You say unlimited time tracking users and projects and reports on your free plan.

Nenad Milanović

21:06Yep. But in the cloud. So all those plans that you see for 10 and $30, they're in the cloud. So the enterprise plan is for the on premise version. So you get the software you install on your Okay.

Nathan Latka

21:19So a lot, 80% of your revenue is coming from this enterprise plan or people want you to install it on their server. In those plans, which I'm not seeing on your website, you do charge per seat, per project, per report, etcetera.

Nenad Milanović

21:31Yep.

Nathan Latka

21:32It's only per user.

Nenad Milanović

21:33Per user.

Nathan Latka

21:34Okay. That's the key to your success, really. I mean, that's where you're driving most of your revenue.

Nenad Milanović

21:39Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's a big issue, privacy and security and all these concerns that companies have, they're solving in a way to have the ability to have the control over their data. Yep. And they're ready to pay for that.

Nathan Latka

21:55Just so just to be clear, and then we'll wrap up here with the famous 5. The the the 10 thou... You said tens of thousands. Let's just call it 10,000 people using your cloud solution at a $20 ARPU on average at $200,000 per month, that that's just your cloud solution, you have a whole nother business, which is your enterprise version.

Nenad Milanović

22:13Correct.

Nathan Latka

22:13Okay, got it. Very cool. And you said that enterprise version makes up 80% of your total revenue?

Nenad Milanović

22:19Yes.

Nathan Latka

22:20Which means it's at least four times as big as $200,000 per month.

Nenad Milanović

22:24Yep.

Nathan Latka

22:25Okay. Got it. So you basically have a, at minimum, an $800,000 per month business on your enterprise side in addition to your $200,000 per month cloud side?

Nenad Milanović

22:35Sorry, I didn't follow that. Exactly.

Nathan Latka

22:37So you said that you said that only your cloud, I'll walk through this very clearly. You said that 80% of your total revenue is your on prem solution. It's not on the cloud. Is that right? Yeah, you said you said that all of your cloud solution, you have 10s of 1000s people using it at about $19 per month, which is assuming a minimum of 10,000 users, that's $200,000 per month on your cloud solution. Is that right?

Nenad Milanović

23:04Yep.

Nathan Latka

23:05In order for your your installed version, not the cloud version to be at least 80% of your revenue, that has to be at least four times your cloud revenue, which is $200,000 per month, right? So four times 200 is $800,000 per month on your installed on their server. And that's where I'm getting the numbers from. That would mean all that would mean altogether the business is doing at least a million dollars per month.

Nenad Milanović

23:31Well, yeah, we could say that.

Nathan Latka

23:33Okay. I just want to make sure they're generally accurate. I don't make you look too big or too small.

Nenad Milanović

23:37Okay. No problem.

Nathan Latka

23:38Okay. The on prem installation, is that one time or is it recurring?

Nenad Milanović

23:42It's recurring.

Nathan Latka

23:43It is recurring. Yeah. So mean, look, this is a great business. You be more happy to talk about it. That's great.

Nenad Milanović

23:50Well, yeah, I mean, I'm very happy that everything's transformed in terms of business. And I'm super excited that we came from really casual start to something super serious in terms of that amount of data that we help companies handle and some big names that I actually

24:15using grew their products when I was a kid, and now I'm serving them through a very simple app.

Enterprise On-Premise Installation Count

Nathan Latka

24:21I love it. How many of the on prem installations have you facilitated over the past, call it, year?

Nenad Milanović

24:27Well,

24:29I think I don't know the exact number, but we're closing to, we're going to get to our thirtieth big customers.

Nathan Latka

24:4030. Yeah. That makes it so so 30 of the kind of on prem ones. Again, you're harvesting all of those leads from your massive top of funnel for user sign up because of the value of your free plan.

Nenad Milanović

24:52Well, yeah, that's that's the assumption. I mean, lot of this

25:01there's always a funny story about someone using the free version and then recommending it to their company. And, yeah, that's that's typically how the upgrade happens. It goes all the way to the enterprise.

Famous Five: Book, CEO, Tool and Sleep

Nathan Latka

25:11I love it. It makes a lot of sense. All right, let's wrap up here with the famous five. Number one, what's your favorite business book?

Nenad Milanović

25:21Well, I wouldn't say business book, but let's say that the non fiction would be the Rich Dad Poor Dad.

Nathan Latka

25:28I like that. Number two, is there a CEO you're following or studying?

Nenad Milanović

25:32I read a lot about Elon Musk own the flamethrower?

25:38No, unfortunately not.

Nathan Latka

25:41Number three, what's your favorite online tool for building your company besides your own?

Nenad Milanović

25:46Trello.

Nathan Latka

25:47Number four, how many hours of sleep you get every night?

Nenad Milanović

25:50As much as I need. Let's say eight hours.

Nathan Latka

25:54Okay. And what's your situation in non married, single, kids?

Nenad Milanović

25:58I'm sorry, I cannot disclose that.

Nathan Latka

26:00Yeah. You can't disclose if you're married or not?

Nenad Milanović

26:03No, I cannot. Sorry about that.

Nathan Latka

26:05So funny. Alright. We'll just say no answer there.

Nenad Milanović

26:09Yeah. I just don't want to talk about private life. Sorry about that.

Nathan Latka

26:11No, no, that's fine. That's fine. Talk to me about how old you are.

Nenad Milanović

26:16I'm 33.

Advice to Younger Self

Nathan Latka

26:1733. Okay, last question. Take us back to your 20 year old self. What do you wish that he knew?

Nenad Milanović

26:24Oh my God, that's a tough question.

26:29At least everything I know today.

Nathan Latka

26:31No, that's a cop out. Something tactical. You can take your time.

Nenad Milanović

26:38What would that be?

26:42Yeah. If I knew that consulting is not really a scalable business model, that would save me a lot of lot of time and and and nerves.

Nathan Latka

26:54Guys, consulting doesn't scale. Clockify.me, a big surprise here. Right? They're doing... They have tens of thousands of paying customers on their cloud solution doing... Paying about $19 per month to $200,000 per month in revenue there. Then they have about 30 enterprise accounts where they actually, because for privacy reasons, install their software on that company's local servers. Those are north of $100,000 ACV accounts. The company altogether doing more than $1,000,000 per month today in revenue. They

27:20have a great free engine, 42,000 new free signups every single month. Really valuable free tool gives them really good ranking on Google, which has driven most of growth team of 70 people totally bootstrapped, which I love. And Nenad, thank you for taking us to the top.

Nenad Milanović

27:34Thank you for having me.