How EstateSpace CEO Jonathan Fishbeck grew to $3.9M revenue and 65 customers in 2025.

family offices pay a state space to manage hundreds of properties he charges per seat his biggest customer pays Seven Grand a month he's up to 20 000 bucks a month in total revenue or 250 000 run rate just closed a 3.2 million seed round out of 17 million pre-money valuation uh but it's really because of the traction he had before that with his agency doing millions and millions a year in Revenue doing custom solutions for the same customers he's now serving today that's why he's now scaling so quickly and that's what allowed him to get the seed round done in a market that's crazy where no one can get deals done team of 17 as he looks to scale new version coming out here shortly hey folks my guest today is Jonathan Fishback He is building estatespace.com it's Estate Management simplified Jonathan you ready to taste the top always thank you Nathan for having me no one thinks about estate planning how do you make them think about this so they pay you yeah so I think from an estate planning perspective um where State space really is is setting the bar is when we're dealing with real property assets so we're talking about managing your property maintaining your property managing your assets and maintaining those assets ultimately coming back to where we started as fintech right we want to help appreciate the value of the things that you own and help you manage them better we want to add depth to your general ledger and your balance sheet where it might just be a single line item and then from there we also want to help you slow down the depreciation of assets that might lose value over time and helping you extend the life of things that you own so ultimately you know the way that we when we started the company we saw you know I've got marketable Securities I have real estate and alternative Investments but who's really managing all my stuff and that's how we that's how we really started that was a Genesis and the idea for a state space you know for me when I think about managing my own sort of stuff like I want some somebody a person that I can call focused on it how do you get people to sort of trust this using soft like to invest in software to run this process versus someone a wealth manager for example right so it's um it's an emerging space right in the last 10 years family offices specifically have started getting into the Fulfillment of the lifestyle of the individual that they're serving whether it's a single or multi-family and so we saw an opportunity to really help them with the things that they struggled on like uh finding the right person to do the thing that they're looking for the requests being that they need to fulfill so um we've actually had a lot of excitement around helping these families and family offices scale automatically through a state space so are they paying you directly versus versus individual consumers paying you directly to manage the states yeah so we're B to C to B so yeah exactly so so it may be B to B to C yes exactly yeah interesting so how many family offices pay you something today uh right now we've got about 65 family offices on the platform uh in the last when we launched uh what was it April 30th of this year and wait why do I have that your launch date was 2017. well that's when we started the company but we launched our commercial product um we so we did an alpha to a beta we went through that process with uh with our clients and in order to get to a commercial ready product for both web and mobile uh this last April you had though Revenue before this year right absolutely yeah so we we were um you know as part of my uh founder 500 story right we um we were doing services so we were we were doing a lot of things it was hard for me to break that service mindset um and we were able to really pivot to complete SAS here uh in the last 18 months so we've now kind of sunset our services and now we're changing all of our Revenue over from what was non-subscriptions to all subscription based I see so yeah when we spoke in 2021 you said you had about 50 customers and they were paying I guess Services here as well but you did about 2.2 million in total revenue that year is that accurate that is accurate yes I see but no zero percent of that was SAS yeah it was it was it was yeah it was like uh now not zero percent but maybe five percent of that Revenue was SAS revenue and so now now we're flipping the script so we pivoted to Pure SAS we do no services at this point in time oh what's going on there YouTube good to see you guys now imagine this you love watching these interviews with SAS Founders but imagine if we took all of the valuation data out from over 2807 interviews I've done manually saves you a lot of time well we've done this we've built the into the beautiful interface inside of founder path check this out I'll show you how you can access this in a second but you log in you connect your stripe account you see your valuation real time you can see what it changed over the past 88 days and even set goals for evaluation this year now the secret valuation is there's many different ways to value a SAS business so the reason you're going to see three or four different evaluations inside of your founder path dashboard this is all free by the way is because depending on who's doing the buying of your SAS company you're going to get a different valuation a VC is going to pay a different valuation private Equity Firm is different if you're going to do a minority sale that's different and if you sell the whole business that's a different valuation you can see all those when I hover over here here right so the teal is what a VC would pay yellow is what private equity and red is if you sold the whole thing outright now what's cool about this is this is not built off random data again you guys hear these interviews on YouTube all these datas are built from real-time valuation data points Founders share with us on the show so traction 1.2 million seed round 3.7 raise they sold 22 percent of their business go in here and filter by the event maybe you only want to see companies that have sold the whole business well here are a bunch that have been acquired the valuation and the multiple maybe you're going out right now and you're raising your seed round well go in here and look at all this recent seed deals that went down what they raised what valuation they raised at and what percent that they sold there's never been a larger data set of SAS valuation than what you can get now inside of founder path and we're thrilled to bring it to you all right we're gonna go back to the YouTube video here in a second but if you want to check this tool out if you want to jump in and sign up you can check it out for free to get your valuation at this link this link founderpath.com forward slash products forward slash evaluations or if you go to founderpath.com and hover over products click on get your valuation here and go ahead and sign up to give it a whirl again all that valuation data live right inside the platform I hope to see you there all right let's jump back into the interview so will Revenue decline this year because you shut off all that service Revenue while you're scaling your SAS yeah so we're actually doing a um a seed round funding right now so we're um we're raising capital I put in more Capital um we're still bootstrapped so we're doing this through friends family Partners um our closed Network and our board and then we'll uh we're scaling back up so we're probably we just crossed 250 000 in recurring Revenue in ARR uh in this in the past five months since we launched uh so you're doing so you're doing 20 000 a month in mrr which is a 250 000 run rate and that that'll that's your revenue for this year now our Revenue by the end of the year should probably some be somewhere around 600 000. so because you still have 400 of services or something 400k yep I see it I see okay yeah so that's exactly we've we've still got like annual Legacy like just under a half a million dollars in ARR coming from Services how do you manage that storyline especially if you're raising now even just with employees I mean imagine when you close books in 2021 and you do 2.2 million revenue and then 2022 it's going to go down you know significantly down to 600 but the story is hey guys we're moving to higher margin SAS that's a hard storyline to manage I mean any employee looking at the books is going oh my gosh we just declined by a lot how do you manage that storyline yeah well so I'm transparent and honest right so I've just told every employee kind of what we're doing right the same story I'm telling you right now so I'm we're raising we're raising around uh 3.25 million that'll take us to the end of next year uh we'll be about two million dollars in ARR by the end of next year and it'll all be SAS and so um actually we have more excitement from our staff than we do uh than we did and we've also um it wasn't like I had to sell that to all 17 people that work with us now right at that point in time we were only about six people so so it was just me and a few other people at that time so we we tripled in size here in the last 18 months now that we made that transition over says interesting how much Equity do you think you'll have to sell at your current size to raise 3.2 million so I've already raised 2.4 um and what does that mean that's committed signed wired yeah so it's uh so close close and signed closed off uh we're at just under 2.1 and then we've got another 350 K of um commit of soft commit at this point okay and when's the first close when are you going to take the first wires you think already started doing it so I've already got two million dollars in the bank so then I don't have to speculate right so so what valuation did you set or cap if it's a note yeah so we did we did um we're just we're doing peer Equity so um Common Stocks and uh we set a 17 million dollar free money yep be somewhere around 21 21 7 posts by the time this is all said and done and then will uh we're positioning the company right now you know we feel that based on the the market comps the business model the cash that we've already raised um we support that and that we're going to be adding significant value over the course of the next uh 12 to 18 months here as we potentially look to to either do another round or uh you know as we talked uh last week potentially doing something here with Thundercloud yeah how do you get um I mean look at your stage the revenue is almost meaningless it's really about do they believe in you and your story right which clearly they do because you're raising this amount of money in a time when like no one can raise right um now if you did do a revenue multiple right 17 million right on a 20 250 000 company it's a 68x multiple which isn't I mean you know again I wouldn't say that that's important what's important is a story you're telling so but point being there's a lot of people listening that are at your stage that are trying to raise this kind of round how did you get it done you know I think it was um it was kind of what you just said right I mean people aren't investing in my multiple right now they're investing in the company they're investing in the vision they're investing in Jonathan um and where we are right we have traction uh so we were able to leverage our traction uh we were able to leverage uh the uh the space that we're in and we've kind of created a Marketplace so um I would say some of my advice is you know again we've been successful by staying you know two inches wide and two miles deep right so we're not saying that we're Property Management simplified like we have a very specific goal of the company um and so with that that story and that transparency it resonates with um our investors and shareholders it also resonates with um our buyers right like they get that we are purpose-built so um you know when it comes to someone when we start to look inside the numbers I've been able to raise Capital because we have over a 90 uh retention rate for paying clients right we have some issues prior to that um on activation that we are that there are things that we can solve for but from a um you know from a from a race perspective uh you know we started this raise on September 6th and uh it's been you know and then the market kind of turns down and um you know we were just we just stayed honest and we just you know stuck to what it is that we do and what we know and ultimately um you know we we've had success raising Capital Nathan yeah no it's good I mean it is interesting to compare though I mean I I believe I remember when we tried in 2021 you said you turned down a 20 million acquisition offer right yeah so so you're now raising at a valuation that's equal to or slightly below that right um how do you think about that I don't um you know I mean I think that uh I look could you have sold for 20 million no no I mean I I I see this company being much more valuable than 20 million dollars and I was not in a position but then why are you raising right now at a 17 million valuation if you think it's something if it's gonna be worth way more just because that was what I was able to get right so I mean working with some of our primary investors and myself I mean we felt like that was the that was an appropriate number that we were able to get kind of that first initial one and a half through a primary investor of ours so that was you know that was just where we ended up with this deal fair enough fair enough okay very cool so 65 customers doing 20 000 a month in Revenue so they're each paying about 300 bucks per month on average do you have any of those six guys customers that are paying you know a grand per month or two grand per month like why what are the big customers what are they paying you for yeah so um our largest client is about 7 000 of that a month oh wow yeah and so with with where we are right now uh we have a release coming out end of this month so it's a 3.5 uh 3.0 is our our April release so now we're we're on our our fifth release since our our primary um and with that we're reaching the maturity level on our platform of a three out of five and with that uh what that means for us is that um why have people come and we have like a 52 enclosed win why isn't it higher uh because we're missing feature functionality um we got something out there right so I think this story in SAS it's always just put some put yourself out there right get a product out there get feedback what's the 7K customer paying for I want to know that are they paying for more seats is there a specific feature they you upgraded them against what are they why are they paying so much more Property Maintenance and project management feature sets so we've opened up and they're they're a large B2B so they're they see a state space it's going to be uh fuel large measure by what is is it number of employees if their company number of properties they manage directly what's the utility num the number yep so they they have about just under 200 employees uh they're doing between 50 and 100 million dollars in revenues annually and they're managing over 100 properties so that's why they'll pay you 7K because you charge per property right or and or something like that well we charge per year we're just per user per month so it's against the 200 employees I see I see okay interesting very interesting if State space isn't designed just for your company or the people that are in it um we we like when we talk about an inclusive mindset right we have we've created a platform with very specific um and very flexible uh roles and permissions to allow for uh our clients to involve their entire ecosystem so we might have a family that is that has 15 properties and each one of those properties has uh vendors that are helping them maintain it on a daily weekly monthly basis those individuals are are could be a vendor it could be a member of their estate space and they're actually communicating and tasking and doing all of those transactions with that vendor through a state space so they're paying for that vendor to be someone that they're able to then securely manage and protect their interests understood love the story Jonathan we're out of time though let's wrap up here with the famous five number one favorite book uh it would be uh the email Revisited you're consistent that was your favorite two years ago as well number oh no the Revisited version there you go it's the updated yeah we visited in traction those were the two that kind of got me kicked off into becoming a Serial entrepreneur here number two is there a CEO you're following or studying yeah I mean it's still going to be uh Bezos it's still going to be uh Apple it's going to be my top two that I thought number three what's your favorite online tool for building uh the business I mean I'd say that you know from a peer development perspective we're using atlassian I do I love it uh it works um we'll leave it at that um there number four how many hours of sleep to get every night uh seven okay and what's your situation married single kids uh happily married uh three kids two dogs four birds and a partridge in a pear tree that's amazing what you're 40 now 41 I just turned 40 yeah just turned 40. yeah very cool last question something you wish you knew when you were 20. uh the gay good advice before starting a company um find somebody that's already done it right um that's what I I always wished I I would have known that it took me about 18 years in business to actually learn that one so um that's uh my always my number one advice guys family offices pay a state space to manage hundreds of properties he charges per seat his biggest customer pays Seven Grand a month he's up to 20 000 bucks a month in total revenue or 250 000 run right just closed a 3.2 million seed round out of 17 million pre-money valuation uh but it's really because of the attraction you had before that with his agency doing millions and millions a year in Revenue doing custom solutions for the same customers he's now serving today that's why he's not scaling so quickly and that's what allowed him to get the seed round done in a market that's crazy where no one can get deals done team of 17 as he looks to scale new version coming out here shortly Jonathan thanks for taking us to the top thanks David appreciate it see you soon one more thing before you go we have a brand new show every Thursday at 1pm Central it's called Shark Tank for SAS we call it deal or bust one founder comes on three hungry buyers they try and do a deal live and the founder shares back-end dashboards their expenses their revenue our poo CAC LTV you name it they share it and the buyers try and make a deal live it is fun to watch every Thursday 1 p.m Central additionally remember these recorded founder interviews go live we 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Introduction hey guys my guest today is jonathan fischbeck he's the founder and ceo of estate space a technology platform that simplifies lifestyle management service and operations to maintain real property assets to help reduce risk and protection and protect wealth succession he was previously the founder and ceo at a design build firm whose focus was advising designing constructing and operationalizing sizeable estate uh properties for families and family offices jonathan you ready to get to the top oh absolutely thank you thank you nathan who's thinking about this like an 80 year old with 10 million in real estate assets and three nephews and they don't know how to divide it amongst the nephews no so our clients are going to be typically between the age of like 35 and 55 um so uh we we spent a lot of our time working with ceos technology founders entrepreneurs that ended up accumulating a lot of assets uh very quickly and and the level of complexity started to grow uh very rapidly interesting okay so tell me how you help them like what's a big maybe what's a big mistake that i'm a bunch of my listeners right now maybe they made a million bucks real quick what's the mistake they might make with that million that you can help them with yeah so so i think where we're helping people out is on all of the things that are non-financial so they buy homes they buy cars they start to accumulate a lot of things right the more money that you make the more things that you have the ability to buy and a lot of times people start to accumulate very rapidly and what ends up happening is that um they're reacting to managing those things right so we help people proactively manage those things where they're saving time they're saving money they actually know what they have and where it is at all times um i know what bank accounts i have i know where all my financial stuff is i've got a team of people managing it a lot of times with all of my physical assets and that's where we really step in to help um you know it's you're managing your home in a reactive way i have a water leak so now i fix it whereas we're helping you productively prevent that water leak and ultimately helping you kind of enjoy it you know you things should you should be able to come home and enjoy not things that you should be worrying about okay interesting what am i going to pay you on average per month to use this technology so if you're a single person you're paying 45 a month um if you have a team of 200 then uh your your per user cost is going to go down based on the number of people that you have um so you know whether you're a small business you know i'm a three-time founder so i've always wanted a platform that i could buy that might cost me a couple hundred dollars for a five six person team to be able to manage my business manage my clients and ultimately not have to do a bunch of rework because i have a system that's intelligent enough to allow me to do all those things capture that information in a database driven experience uh to ultimately uh give people what they need when they want based on their role based on their permissions now where did you like when did you launch this and where'd you get the idea did you have it before you were doing work at the family office or did you see problems at the family office i gave you the idea yeah so so this actually came from my my previous uh venture as uh work working with ultra network families as a general contractor and we finished a very large project it took us about six years uh there was tens of thousands of page of documents and i knew no one would ever look at them read them it was very difficult to consume and so the idea for estate space came about five years ago when we we found it impossible to transition a multi-10 million dollar project to the client because there was just so much information and so what ended up happening is um we realized that we were now sucked into like the facilities management role one that's not really what our company did but obviously we adapted we took care of the client and so that was kind of the genesis and then the the maturation has really been moving from like the physical asset portfolio to property management really now to uh communications and an end-to-end operational um platform that will allow you know workflows business intelligence and again giving all members of your estate space the right information um at any given time so that we're cutting down on a lot of the administration administrative inefficiencies that go on uh especially in private residences okay so 2016 was when you launched the company uh 2017 2017. okay now how many customers are you serving today yeah so Currently serving 50 customers we have over 50 families we have multiple billionaires on the platform we just started scaling a couple of months ago so it's been a really exciting year so we've exceeded our sales numbers from last year in the first month of this year and we're really taking off uh we've uh over the last so you know from the year of the idea we had our our first release in 19 our 2.0 release was in 2020 uh and then uh 3.0 is coming out uh middle of october of 2021 and that's what we're really excited for because we'll have end to end capabilities again we've got workflows we have a marketplace um for service providers to help our clients on things that we don't do as well as business intelligence so those are kind of the three things when you think about estate space and now we'll have a web of both mobile android apple so we'll be able to be anywhere that our clients need us to be let's talk more about that in a second but first taking back to that beautiful sort of year one 2019 to get that release out do you remember revenue that year total revenue uh yeah that total revenue that year was probably about 150 thousand dollars what was going through your head that year and close out was it were you exciting or were you bummed or what no i think we were we were psyched right so we we that was kind of like our proof of concept launch so we kind of saw that as like our beta launch uh we got 13 uh clients and they were spread across ultra high net worth families family offices and then um supporting service providers so property management company uh we also had an estate management company and so we got all of the flavors that we were looking for and then we were able to get a ton of feedback um and then we were and that led to our 2.0 release which was so we were on september of 19 second one came in june of 2020 and now um this october is 3.0 that's probably what i'm most excited about again you know we try to listen really well and then uh apply that feedback in a way that benefits all of our customers Monthly recurring revenue so 150 grand in 2019 what did you scale up to in 2020 so we did a million in 2020 and we did 1.4 in january of this year and continue to scale that number up this year and is that 1.4 cash collected like you pulled a bunch of annual payments in that first first month uh no though so that was just a contracts one and then that was aggregated over uh a 12-month period i see so like i guess the way to ask this would be like last month what was your monthly recurring revenue would you say uh about 175 000. wow okay got it so so got it so you're you're uh i guess you just broke essentially two million dollar run rate so you know what do you think you'll finish the year at uh so i'm hoping to throw about another 750 to 1.1 on top of it that's what i'm projecting where's the growth coming from isn't more seats across the same 50 customers or adding brand new families all together yeah no it's it's adding bit it's now that we're now that we have our our web application uh coming out uh we're able to start onboarding businesses so we're able to so a lot of our families are gonna be anywhere from about five to ten users nathan but businesses can be anywhere from uh up like 50 to a couple thousand because estate space is built for everyone in your ecosystem so if you think about a business right you might have um employees you have vendors you have suppliers you have clients all of those people are part are members of your estate space and yeah yeah i just saw nathan's right i want i want to make sure my audience doesn't miss this you're really playing in like the physical asset management space for example if you are a ceo and you buy 30 and max for 30 team members i could manage those macs on your platform is that accurate it is yeah so it's not just like you own a mansion and you need to do like tax planning it's it's you're really again if this is an asset class it's growing very quick there are a lot of sas companies in this space growing quickly that you're in this space yes interesting okay how are you finding customers uh so so it's it's kind of three-fold so we uh we're campaigning for very specific um people uh so we're finding people like through linkedin we have an extensive network so part of the the beauty about estate spaces uh myself my partner we were able to roll up about 18 years of human capital into this company so our whole network was really applicable um and then uh we have a you know we have a team that's that's out doing outreach uh we have you know digital inbound funnel as well so we're advertising we're marketing but we're targeting the people that we feel that we can really have the biggest impact on and so that's you know that's that's type the high net worth individuals executive uh family offices and then the supporting service providers and when i say that we're focusing on um uh more of a luxury market as our go-to market so like the like a luxury contract management company or a consultant that's helping with um you know something to do with more in the estate management or property management side uh those are kind of the main targets that we're going after from uh from a b2b perspective last month how much did you spend on just paid ads uh probably about three grand so now and how many that's not a ton yeah how many new customers did you have last month uh one uh advertisements yeah okay interesting so is that sort of the right cat you're willing to spend about three grand or get a new customer no um so right right now because we're sun setting 2.0 and releasing 3.0 uh we're starting to pivot our marketing in our messaging our website will be turning over next month so we have uh i'd say a handful of referrals that are coming on to the two points for the 2.0 release which was mobile centric mobile first uh with a with a very simple web supporting application um and so not to confuse our upcoming buyers and a lot of the people that are in our pipeline uh we're gonna be pivoting all of that so i'm kind of okay with that but typically on average about three to five thousand dollars is going to get us like three to five million eyeballs and then from there we're looking at about 500 um leads that that probably end up somewhere around 150 of sales qualified leads that typically you know from there we start working down about you know anywhere from like 30 20 to 50 percent by the time that you get down to it so that 5 000 should really lead to about 10 10 customers in a month i see now Bootstrapped have you bootstrapped all this or did you guys raise family owned and operated built in the united states i love that so do you own 100 uh so myself uh then my my my family and and then i'd say there's we have eight stakeholders but myself and my family we own 88 of the company in year five that's very cool now any plans to raise or do you want to stay bootstrapped so we we were gonna have plans to raise but we ended up um really getting uh the right clients and the right people in the company and then we're scaling now so there's uh there's no i've taken that off the table given how exhausting it was to raise some of the money just internally right now so um so no point no plans of like a formal series a at this point what do you mean by that raising money internally just mean working with myself and my direct family to you know figure out what capital we wanted to allocate uh to this to this venture right so um that that ended up um you know it's just all very time consuming i was i was looking to raise with family and friends i'd say i think we raised somewhere around a million dollars um and then we've you know we've also had um you know a great uh we had a client that came on that's also what year was that sorry when you raised a million uh well that was uh 2019. okay so you did sort of raise but it was all family and friends yeah well it was like three and three three three family and friends and then we we've to date we've invested uh just over seven million dollars uh across the company and that's about a million of that was was not my direct family i see i see what would you value the company at today so uh we keep it really simple so we're just 10x arr so at the end of this year uh you know my goal is to get us somewhere to that 20 million mark um and that's just that's a a kind of a middle-of-the-line conservative sas model because we are pure sas yep i mean i personally would argue you're worth more than if you're already at 175 000 per month in revenue right so that's about a 2.2 million dollar run rate i'd say like minimum 60. although you all you investors listening are going to like that i'm building jonathan up like this but i would say at least 66 70 million yeah i mean i i like you right you can pay me the commission after the call all right no just kidding jonathan what's a team size today how many folks uh so we just uh scaled the company so we were at six about six months ago and now we're at 13 going to 15. uh that's mainly consists uh first we we tripled our development team um and then from there we how many developers uh we have eight total developers and now we're starting to add sales uh sales people and then from there we'll backfill customer success um and that'll be a great problem to have how many quota carrying sales reps do you have uh three and what's the quota uh so they're just coming on right now as we're scouting so they just are actually that team's growing monday of next week so um uh but their quotas to come out of the gate is gonna be to get acclimated and then as the 3.0 uh as 3.0 hits you know we'll expect to see you know anywhere from five to ten sales per person per month got it what does that mean in terms of new arr in the first 12 months you want them to drive so i mean if you're just going kind of on average deal flow size i mean each one of them should be bringing in anywhere from you know 10 to 25 000 at best i would say to start yep yep yep to call like a 300 000 first year quota on the high side 25 000 a month right and new mrr yep yeah interesting that's always that's always the hardest part is when you're starting making those first three hires like what quota do you give them but also give them time to ramp up they want to overwhelm them on day one and then they get demotivated yeah so it's kind of one of those things where we're just super transparent nathan right so we just tell them kind of where they are they know they're coming in on the ground level um you know gave them the opportunity to sell what we have now but you know it's kind of maybe counterproductive to their long-term goals so you know they're they're coming all in on on 3.0 release and and that's really great right because um ultimately they're going to be uh they're going to know the company they're going to know the client they're going to know the product and they're going to be able to make sure that everyone's a great fit now one of the great things about where we're going with 3.0 everything's user driven everything's you know we've integrated stripe right into the platform uh we're you know in the process of getting you know stock compliance and really taking our company to the next level and and all of that for our clients means easy buying so you're able to just click to sign up page click to sign in and go and then you know from there it's software as a service and we're supporting all your technology needs but we've built an affiliate partner program to help someone that has any size house do all of the catalog digital cataloging right we have partners to help you uh with advice you know being in the space is a consultant and an owner rep for about a decade now you know the hardest thing for most of our families most of our clients is getting good advice at the right time and finding really great people to help them and so you know we try to not only unblock the road from an intuitive technology platform perspective but also surround them with a marketplace of service providers that can help them accelerate and maximize the things that a state space can do for them yeah now you mentioned obviously you're Profits bootstrapping this right you put seven million in yourself and then a million from sort of outsiders but are you as profitable today or burning capital uh we're we're we're still burning a little bit our profitability is we're probably about well not probably we're 350 k of recurring or right away from break even a manual referring of annual recurring yeah so like that basically means 175 000 a month last year in revenue you spend like maybe a total of 220 grand or something on all expenses yeah so our our expenses are less than what we're bringing in but um but it's but from a from where we're going to grow this year i want i need another 350 of annual recurring to support the scale and the growth that i have coming on i see so okay but if we just look last month right so so last month last month we made more than we spent by about 15 000 yep oh great that's great so profitable last month but again you're you're about to keep reinvesting in growth so you'll need to keep adding so yeah it's it's not it's not a perfect model when it comes to like profitability so you know we just need to continue to keep building keep growing keep selling yep now i like that all right that should be the model for every size founder jonathan let's wrap up here with the famous five number one what's your favorite book uh i'd say my my favorite book of all time is gonna have to be um uh the emf uh revisited number two is there a ceo you're following or studying uh absolutely so um i mean i follow uh i i like uh basos i like i like amazon i like to follow apple i like to follow netflix i'm a huge fan of um of those three for for a number of different reasons um but yeah i'd say those are probably the top three that i follow number three what's your favorite online tool for building a state space uh i would say my favorite online tool for building a state space um besides your own okay um yeah i would probably have to say i would put envision up there from a design to development perspective it does a lot um so i'd say envision number uh four here how many hours i sleep to get every night something so it's pretty good what's your situation married single kids i i'm i'm i'm happily married uh to my wife vanessa i have three kids a daughter 15 a son who's four and another son who's two i've got two two beautiful dogs and five birds so that's amazing how old are you uh josh jonathan i just turned 39 uh june 3rd wow okay last question here what's something you wish you knew when you were 20 um i wish i would have told myself to get good advice um before i started a company so um and not just good good advice right i got that i think it was getting getting good advice from somebody that was in the space that i was going into so i was actually just uh asked a question of like if i had a thousand dollars what would i spend it on and um and i've watched that same question get asked but my answer was simple i would i would pay for really really good advice because it's it's it's it's intrinsic right it's going to carry on value with me forever so um so that's that's what i wish i knew and that's kind of what i i as i mentor and help other uh young ceos and entrepreneurs it's you know get good advice from somebody that's been in the space that you want to go into that's already done it um because you know the mistakes early are the ones that cost the most guys at statespace.com if you're buying 50 max for your team they'll help you track all those macs real time call it in physical asset management right 150 000 a year in revenue back in 2019 grew to a million last year and this year they're already at a 2.2 million dollar run rate they've done all this bootstrap using their own internal capital they have over 50 customers up and average 3 500 per year for the platform they were profitable last month 15 000 bucks as they look to continue to scale with their team of 13 today six and eight engineers and their first three sales reps coming on board with 300 000 quota we'll see what happens next jonathan thanks for taking us to the top awesome nathan appreciate your time one more thing before you go we have a brand new show every thursday at 1 pm central it's called shark tank for sas we call it deal or bust one founder comes on three hungry buyers they try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards their expenses their revenue arpu cac ltv you name it they share it and the buyers try and make a deal live it is fun to watch every thursday 1 pm central additionally remember these recorded founder interviews go live we release them here on youtube every day at 2 p.m central to make sure you don't miss any of that make sure you click the subscribe button below here on youtube the big red button and then click the little bell notification to make sure you get notifications when we do go live i wouldn't want you to miss breaking news in the sas world whether it's an acquisition a big fundraise a big sale a big profitability statement or something else i don't want you to miss it additionally if you want to take this conversation deeper and further we have by far the largest private slack community for b2b sas founders you want to get in there we've probably talked about your tool if you're running a company or your firm if you're investing you can go in there and quickly search and see what people are saying sign up for that at nathan lacka dot com forward slash slack in the meantime i'm hanging out with you here on youtube i'll be in the comments for the next 30 minutes feel free to let me know what you thought about this episode if you enjoyed it click the thumbs up we get a lot of haters that are mad at how aggressive i am on these shows but i do it so that we can all learn we have to counter those people we got to push them away click the thumbs up below to counter them and know that i appreciate your guys's support all right i'll be in the comments see ya