How Inkit Surpassed $1M Run Rate with 100 Customers and Zero Gross Churn (Interview with CEO Michael McCarthy)

Nathan Latka

00:00Just got done editing this interview. You guys are gonna love it. Before I do that though, I want you to know that I'm going to be in the comments for the next thirty minutes or so answering your questions. If there's additional questions you want me to ask the CEO next time I interview them, leave them below. Or if you're just loving the data points I get CEOs to share, click the thumbs up button below. That's your

Host Intro and Guest Welcome

Nathan Latka

00:18way of telling me you're loving this stuff, and I'll get you more of it. Additionally, again, I'll be in the comments answering any questions you have. Alright. For thirty minutes. Enjoy the interview. Hello everyone, my guest today is Michael McCarthy. He is building a company called Inkit, is a direct mail solution track, which tracks and automates personalized letters of marketing collateral statements policies and many other items. Michael, you ready to take us to the top?

What Inkit Does and CRM Integration Model

Michael McCarthy

00:40Let's do it.

Nathan Latka

00:40All right. So just to be clear, you are not directly competing with, call it, HubSpot or Salesforce in terms of the technology of the CRM. You're just tying in via webhooks or something to do direct mail.

Michael McCarthy

00:48Correct. We are a bolt on to those types of platforms or products.

Nathan Latka

00:52Okay, which of those platforms, I imagine you're obviously integrated with all of them, which one of them drives you the most customers?

Michael McCarthy

01:00We wouldn't say one or any others drive us more than the other. So there's

Nathan Latka

01:04You're not gonna pick a baby.

Michael McCarthy

01:06Listed on our ecosystem drives us drives those customers. So we're we're very friendly to, you know, lots of different solutions. And and in fact, Nathan, there's actually solutions out there that are that are point solutions where they might be used by really, really large insurers or really, really large banks. Take take for instance, like an FIS where they might drive one or two customers a year, but those one or two customers are massive whales compared to

01:31to other products in the market.

Pricing Model: SaaS Plus Per-Piece Metered

Nathan Latka

01:33Yep. Now explain to me how you price. Is it a SaaS model?

Michael McCarthy

01:36We price as a SaaS model. Pricing is very transparent. So we have a software as a service amount, and that gets you a certain amount of mailings every year. So it's very, very, very, very basic vanilla.

Nathan Latka

01:48So break that. I mean, me, give me the sweet spot on the SaaS side, what's the kind of the average customer paying you per year to use the tech?

Michael McCarthy

01:55So average customer is, you know, north, we're typically seeing a lot of 6 figure size contracts on average.

Nathan Latka

02:03So you're not an SMB play?

Michael McCarthy

02:05Not as much as SMB play. SMB is really, really tricky when you go into direct mail, meaning a lot of, you know, your local coffee shop probably doesn't have the budget for for direct mail even to begin with. So it's it's typically more of a a mid enterprise type of customer play.

Nathan Latka

02:22Okay. And then I cut you off, but you were gonna say you also have kind of a per mail delivered fee. What is... I imagine that's in cents. How many cents?

Michael McCarthy

02:30Yeah. So So so that can that can really vary. It can be as low as 30¢. It can be as high as... You know, let's say you wanna send out a 100 page document. That could be $10 just depending on how many pages there are. So we have a we have a SaaS amount, and we have a per piece amount. Per piece is is fixed.

Revenue Mix: SaaS vs Metered Breakdown

Nathan Latka

02:46Interesting. So... Let me let me ask let me ask you a question. When you add up all your revenue over the past twelve months, what percent came from pure SaaS versus the metered portion?

Michael McCarthy

02:55That's something that we don't publicly disclose, but it's it's it's definitely... We have a we have a lot of SaaS. It's a very healthy mix. So it's it's it's it's similar to, like, if not more than, like, food comps out there publicly traded.

Nathan Latka

03:08Well, I I don't I know what those are. I'm just trying to get a sense of, are you more a metered business that's pay as you go or more a SaaS play? Because they're very different questions I'll ask based off what you're the majority of, or like it's more than 80% of the business SaaS would you say?

Michael McCarthy

03:21I'd say less than 80, but definitely more than 50. So it's a hybrid of the two. SaaS is definitely a big component of it. And of course, as companies ramp up their usage, then you start to see more metered, the metered side.

Nathan Latka

03:35Yeah, that's enough. Fair Now, obviously your margins are gonna be better on the SaaS side, correct?

Michael McCarthy

03:40Yeah. Correct.

Nathan Latka

03:41Yeah.

Michael McCarthy

03:41SaaS is SaaS is pretty, pretty good margins from from what I've heard.

Founding Story and Team Background

Nathan Latka

03:45Put this... Put all this, Michael, on a timeline for me. When did launch the company?

Michael McCarthy

03:49So the company was started in 2017. It was started by myself, my best friend, Abram Isola, who's the other co founder, CTO. Our quick backgrounds are Abram has been coding since he was four years old. The two of us grew up together. He was one of Aaron Schwartz's best friends. Aaron was one of the founders at Reddit... Co founders at Reddit. So Abram and Aaron helped build some of the very first open sourced Python frameworks that

04:17actually ended up being used to build Reddit. Then right out of high school, my CTO, Abram, was hired onto Leadpages to be their chief information security officer when he was 18. Myself, I went off to college, played soccer, had a degree in econ, minor in computer science. And my first actually job out of school was sitting next to a direct mail team. I wasn't doing direct mail, but I was sitting next to a team of 70

04:40people doing this and just saw how archaic and really how the process was all dependent upon flat files and CSV exports, and everything was just very, very manual and actual human intensive. Meaning that if a bank like US Bank wanted to turn around a direct mailer, it would take them sometimes up to twelve to sixteen weeks to actually get this out in the mail.

Nathan Latka

05:05Yep. You two started this thing in 2017. Now how much time and money did you spend coding before your first dollar of revenue? Do you remember?

Michael McCarthy

05:12We spent a good six months coding. Know, tough to put a dollar value on it other than our time, but we had a team of myself and three other guys that we were all just working on this full time to get things going.

Nathan Latka

05:25Well, did you have to pay did you have to pay those other three people anything, to work, or it was all equity?

Michael McCarthy

05:29We had a lot of those guys just on on hybrid types of just equity agreements. So it's a pretty pretty, I guess, different, a traditional setup process from the beginning.

Nathan Latka

05:41No, no, it's not, I mean, it's not different. I mean, founders have to get creative in their early days to figure out how to get stuff done for free, right? So you use equity, you use other incentives, you do consulting work on the side, whatever you have to do.

Michael McCarthy

05:51Exactly, yeah. So we did a little bit of consulting work on the side, paid people a little bit differently than out of the gate. And then, yeah, we really, really launched our product in, I'd say really Jan, February of twenty eighteen. So we've really only been around for even a little less than two years.

Team Size, Engineers, and Sales Reps

Nathan Latka

06:09And how many people are on the team today?

Michael McCarthy

06:12We have a team of 15 plus. Most of them are based in Minneapolis.

Nathan Latka

06:12How many engineers?

Michael McCarthy

06:21Have, I'd say over, still over 70% of our businesses is engineering based. 10 plus.

Nathan Latka

06:28Okay, got it.

Michael McCarthy

06:29Very, very engineering side.

Nathan Latka

06:31Do you have are you at a stage I imagine with your contract values, you must have some folks that are carrying a quota. Are you the only sales rep right now?

Michael McCarthy

06:38No, I'm not the only sales rep. And we do have other sales reps carrying quotas. So we have we have a few other sales guys out

Nathan Latka

06:43How many total?

Michael McCarthy

06:45We Oh, man, we have three right now.

Nathan Latka

06:49And are you still figuring that out? Or do you feel like you've perfected? In other words, you know what the quota target is, you know what the ramp time is, you know what the kind of OTE to quota target is in terms of payback period, all that jazz?

Michael McCarthy

07:01I don't think anybody's figured out their OTE or their sales formula. So even big companies are constantly tweaking that and changing that. So we

07:12have a really good idea of what kinds of customers we wanna sell to. We have a really good idea of what those cycles look like. We have a really good idea of who the buying centers are. Now from a OTE and just earnings side, let's face it, some of these large enterprises, let's say you go out and talk to the Exxon Mobiles or the Walmarts or the United Healthcare groups of the world, a lot of those

07:38companies take years to do things. So that's where there's sort of a, it's more of an art to how you craft these sales.

Nathan Latka

07:47Yeah, mean, just to be fair, the companies, once you're north of $20,000,000 to $30,000,000 bucks in ARR, this is a system. It is a well oiled machine. There's very little tweaking that happens. I mean, so this I guess what I'm asking you is you're you're at a valuable point where most of my listeners are probably very similar to they've hired maybe their first one or two sales reps, but they're still tweaking, they're still figuring out. I'm just trying

08:08to understand what different inputs you're using for that model to try and get a better guess of what that will look like at scale.

Michael McCarthy

08:15Yeah. So this is the two big two big inputs we have is one, we have a baseline compensation, and a baseline comp is we actually pay very similar to, like, what a what a sales rep would make in Silicon Valley or New York City. So there's just that there's a base amount. And then what we do is we have a commission structure based on the SaaS component of our product. So depending upon different functions too, obviously

08:39a sales rep is incentivized to sign a two year deal over a one year deal or a five year deal over a one year deal, or to include things like auto renews or other types of favorable provisions. There's a baseline cut that we provide just on getting the contract signed. And then for each additional added benefit that's pro-Inkit, such as like an auto renew, then that mechanism slides up.

Nathan Latka

09:07What new annual revenue do you want to see kind of reps closing in their first twelve months? Is it like $300,000 worth of ARR or a million or something else?

Michael McCarthy

09:15We'd like to see close to 400 at least in the first couple months. But we we do know too that a lot of these take time, right, where we

Nathan Latka

09:15Hold on.

09:26What do mean first couple months? So let's say I just joined you today. I'm your fourth sales rep kinda hire. You're gonna say, Nathan, our expectation is over the next twelve months, you're gonna close $400,000 in new annual business?

Michael McCarthy

09:37Correct. Right now we have a lot of those types of clients just coming in inbound. So

09:46it'd be pretty tough not to hit those types of quotas that we've laid out already.

Nathan Latka

09:50Well, it's not about all the leads coming in. I mean, there's plenty of people have plenty of leads coming in, but someone has to go on the phone with them if they're paying you a $100,000 a year and actually get the deal done. You know what I mean?

Michael McCarthy

09:59Totally, totally.

First Customer: Bite Squad and Cold Outreach

Nathan Latka

10:00Okay, Interesting. Okay. So three folks with quota, 10 engineers, 15 people kind of full time. Now here's a question. So you guys started a desk, you're sitting next to these people doing direct mail. You're going, this is a massive pain point. Did that customer become your first customer or how'd you get your first couple customers?

Michael McCarthy

10:17I wish. No. They're... We're actually talking to them right now. So so our our first... Actually, so so truth be told, our first couple customers were... When we first got going, we we didn't know who we were selling to, Nathan. We, frankly were just trying to figure out the market. So we spent the first three months literally walking around this college town area, knocking on restaurant doors, wondering if a restaurant or a dry cleaner or a

10:47local business would actually buy our tool. And what we very quickly learned was that a lot of these small mom and pop businesses just one, didn't have the budget or two, didn't even have the marketing automation tools to make this medium automated. So we started calling into companies that you and I have heard of, like Tacova's or-

Nathan Latka

10:47Do you remember the first logo?

11:12Let's tell that actual story. Who was the first customer?

Michael McCarthy

11:14Yeah, so our first customer was a company called Bite Squad.

Nathan Latka

11:18How'd you get them?

Michael McCarthy

11:21Made just a ton, a ton of emails. I believe I emailed this lady probably 15 times over the course of a month.

Nathan Latka

11:31What was her title?

Michael McCarthy

11:32Her title was, she was head of demand gen.

Nathan Latka

11:38Is that still kind of who you're selling to, head of demand gens?

Michael McCarthy

11:41It can it can vary. A lot of times it's CRM users or it can be... It can even just be marketing buyers. So she was a VP of demand gen, and we must have just passed her to the point of where she was like, hey, we have to we have to buy this. Okay.

Customer Count and Industry Breakdown

Nathan Latka

11:55So you close her, that's your first customer call it eighteen, nineteen months ago. And then what are you at today? Kind of a handful, four or five customers?

Michael McCarthy

12:02Yeah, so we now have 40 plus customers. Actually, well, a lot more than We're close to like that 100 customer range at the moment.

Nathan Latka

12:02And those are paying customers, no free...

Michael McCarthy

12:02Yeah, we do free from a business side. So we have 100 plus customers, and customers come from a wide variety of industries. We see a lot of people in insurance, we see a lot of people in financial services, healthcare, and just consumer goods or e commerce.

12:32So there's a pretty good variety. Ultimately, for our product in particular, there's really two different use cases. The first use case is you have a marketing use case. So the marketing use case really resonates with grocers, e commerce, consumer goods types of brands. And then we also have an operations use case, which is sending out actual forms or notices or bills or compliance materials. And that's a huge sweet spot with financial service providers, insurers, healthcare companies.

Nathan Latka

13:02So Now, Michael, in terms of scale, right, so a 100 customers, you told me earlier, the average kind of contract value is you call it in the 6 figure, so a $100,000. Now, I obviously, if I multiply a $100,000, I'm a 100, that puts you at more than a million dollars a month in revenue. I don't think you're at that scale yet. Is your average customer paying you a little bit less than $100,000 a year?

Michael McCarthy

13:19We have, so I mean, obviously we had a couple customers that were first that, you know.

Nathan Latka

13:24Well, what's the... That's why I asked the average ACV, right? Not your top customer, your average, your sweet spot.

Michael McCarthy

13:29Yeah. So our average is about that sweet spot. Yeah. So We're right around that like 100K clip range.

Nathan Latka

13:37Okay, you understand I don't think that can be true, right? If you're at the average

Michael McCarthy

13:40Yeah, mean, understand if you go run the math. Mean, but that's what we're seeing in the last six months. So if we were to go back and average everybody out, like sure, it might be under that threshold. Maybe it's closer to... Because we did have a a first couple clients

Nathan Latka

13:54No. Totally. That's that's why I'm asking though, Michael. I I I don't wanna know what you're landing customers today at, which might be a $100,000. That's great. No. No. I'm curious to get historical value. So is it more like a thousand dollars a month from your... All your historical accounts?

Michael McCarthy

13:54I

14:06mean, we're a lot more than that. We're... Oh, man. I'd say if you were to if you were to balance them all, I mean, somewhere between, let's just say 20 to 40, 20 to 50.

Nathan Latka

14:19Okay.

Michael McCarthy

14:19I mean, I don't have the numbers off the top of my head, but that's just a guesstimate.

Revenue Run Rate and Growth

Nathan Latka

14:23Well, ask you a different question. I mean, when do you think you break a million dollar run rate?

Michael McCarthy

14:29We're already well past that.

Nathan Latka

14:31Okay. So is the next target five? I mean, what's the next big goal you wanna break?

Michael McCarthy

14:34Big next milestone is we'd like to get to that five area.

Nathan Latka

14:37And do think you can do it

14:39next year or is that gonna be a stretch?

Michael McCarthy

14:41Who knows? I mean, we we think we can definitely do it next year. We've got a couple big ones in the pipeline right now that are that are certainly able to to get us there quickly.

Nathan Latka

14:48Okay. So

14:49It's unfair to ask this question because multiplying small numbers is easy, so your growth rates go through the roof. But if you're past a million dollars in run rate today, where were you exactly a year ago so we can get growth rate?

Michael McCarthy

14:58Oh.

Nathan Latka

15:01You had only been like six months old.

Michael McCarthy

15:03Yeah, I have an idea. That's just not something we disclose. That's for us, that's just private, private information. It's kind of like on a need to know basis for those types of numbers.

Nathan Latka

15:15Me, if you want to stay vague, that's fine. I'm just trying to understand, you talking like 100% year over year growth or like 1000% year over year growth? Give me a range.

Michael McCarthy

15:21We've we've we've done between a 100 and a thousand. I mean, we're we're definitely we're definitely more than tripling

Nathan Latka

15:21Okay.

Michael McCarthy

15:21Just a rate. So...

Nathan Latka

15:28Yeah. That's good. Okay. Good. So so 300% kinda year over year growth. You're past a million run rate today, and you feel like in the next, call it four to eight quarters, you can break a 5,000,000 run rate based on your model of combined metered plus SaaS revenue.

Michael McCarthy

15:41Sure. That's fair.

Funding: Less Than $1M Raised

Nathan Latka

15:43Bootstrapped?

Michael McCarthy

15:44We've taken in a little bit of... Taken in some outside funding. So it's

Nathan Latka

15:44Michael, the dilute...

15:50Why take the dilution? It sounds like you were basically making money from day one.

Michael McCarthy

15:54We we were taking... Making money from day one. So we we took the money just early on, Very, very, very nominal amounts, and that's also just not disclosed for for obvious reasons.

Nathan Latka

16:06Wait. Michael, sorry. That's not an obvious... Hold on. Sorry. There there are no obvious reasons for that. Why why would you be coy about that? That just my listeners are gonna listen and go, this guy's hiding something. Why would you be coy about that strategically? There's no reason to be coy about it.

Michael McCarthy

16:19I think there's a lot of reasons to be coy about it strategically.

Nathan Latka

16:22But I can look it up. We can look into SEC filings and quickly look it up.

Michael McCarthy

16:26You you... Well, not all the time. No. Not necessarily. A lot of things come... Can come in as as secondaries or safes or all sorts of other things that don't just get disclosed. So...

Nathan Latka

16:38No. Safes get... The the... Safes get... Convertible notes, safes, these things these things do get disclosed.

Michael McCarthy

16:44Once they convert. Sure. Sure. But not at... Not not the time. And if... That's... You know? So so basically, there's a there's a lot of... We've we've taken in some money. Not a ton, but, you know, definitely, like, very, very well known investors who who have backed us.

Nathan Latka

16:57Yeah, I guess what I'm asking is it's more impressive to me someone that bootstraps, versus that's So raised a I'm trying to get a sense, if you raise 10,000,000, your story is less interesting to me, right?

Michael McCarthy

17:07We have not raised $10,000,000 already.

Nathan Latka

17:10You just make this statement? You've definitely raised less than X amount.

Michael McCarthy

17:14Yeah, mean, I've definitely raised less than 1,000,000.

Nathan Latka

17:16Okay, perfect. So that's good. That helps keep context. Very Any plans to raise in the next twelve months or you can get pretty far on that money?

Michael McCarthy

17:26I mean, always open to the right offers is sort of the answer there. So it depends on how the market is, right? If we don't need to, then we won't. If we need to, then we might.

Nathan Latka

17:39Were you burning massive amounts of capital right now? Do you need to go out and raise or are you cash flow positive?

Michael McCarthy

17:44We're pretty much neutral as far as things from how we're sitting at the moment.

Nathan Latka

17:50Your lips were about to say B as in burning and then you quickly went back to neutral after your brain kicked in. Are you burning or are you neutral?

Michael McCarthy

17:58We are neutral. We do not have massive amounts of burn going on every month, Nathan.

Nathan Latka

18:03But what does massive mean? Can be that's relative.

Michael McCarthy

18:07Massive to me would be, I know of one company where they were burning a $100,000, actually, million dollars. No, was a $100,000 a day. Not doing that type of a rate.

Nathan Latka

18:23Okay. Michael, that comment makes as, if that company's a billion dollar company, burning a $100,000 at... Burning a $100,000 at any makes a lot of Okay.

Michael McCarthy

18:31Well, fair point. But but I mean, out of out of the gate as a seed stage company, no. So Yeah. They're no longer in business either. So

Nathan Latka

18:39Got it. So, okay. So basically the cash flow breakeven, if the right, you know, if you do go out and raise, obviously you're open to if ideal comes along. You're in a hotel room right now. Do you have investor meetings later today?

Michael McCarthy

18:49We do not. No. I do have a sweater on though because I have lot of meetings with insurers and financial service providers.

Gross Churn and Expansion Revenue

Nathan Latka

18:54I am not envious of you. Let's just put it that way. Last couple of questions before we wrap up. Churn. When you look at your past twelve months gross revenue churn, what's it at?

Michael McCarthy

19:04No churn. We have negative churn.

Nathan Latka

19:06You've had no you've had no no buyouts gross. You can't have negative gross churn.

Michael McCarthy

19:11We've had we've had no we've had no churn. So we're actually our customers are buying more from us than they were.

Nathan Latka

19:17So you've had no of your 100 customers that were paying you call it a year ago. None of them have either sent less mess... Mail, so they're metered kind of thing, their revenue has gone down or have downgrade based off a feature based on the SaaS side. No no downgrade revenue?

Michael McCarthy

19:17None.

Nathan Latka

19:17Okay. What's expansion look like? Are we talking 20% kind of customers expansion year over year?

Michael McCarthy

19:35Very, very high expansion.

Nathan Latka

19:36What's high?

Michael McCarthy

19:37We're we're north of 50% on expansion side.

Nathan Latka

19:40Okay. And that's not unlike your best case scenario. That's on the full cohort from a year ago. It's that

Michael McCarthy

19:40Yeah.

Nathan Latka

19:40You've expanded them 50%. That's good. Obviously, dealing with a small amount of customers, one but 150% net revenue retention is pretty good this early on. Nice work

Michael McCarthy

19:52We're expanding a lot on the expansion side.

Customer Acquisition Cost and ACV to CAC Ratio

Nathan Latka

19:55Yeah. Now do you have a model around acquisition? So to get a new $30,000 a year account, will you spend $30 to get them?

Michael McCarthy

20:02We were still working out our CAC from a CAC side, but we were seeing like, you know, very, very healthy CAC types of CAC to like LTV sorts of sorts of metrics.

Nathan Latka

20:02Well, of

20:16course, because you could argue your LTV is infinite if you have 0% churn, that would be a big mistake for you to make.

Michael McCarthy

20:22What we're saying is like, when you look at the contract ACV to CAC, our ACV to CAC is healthy.

Nathan Latka

20:29Is what?

Michael McCarthy

20:31I mean, from what we've heard, typically, like metrics are three to one is, like, good. We're we're way more than than three to one.

Nathan Latka

20:39Okay. So if your if your annual contract if your annual contract value is more than three x your CAC. Right? So what I'm hearing you say is if you're gonna land a $30,000 account, you're saying you're spending way less than $10,000 to get that account currently.

Famous Five: Books, Tools, and Habits

Michael McCarthy

20:52Correct.

Nathan Latka

20:52Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Good stuff. Let's wrap up. Let's wrap up with the famous five. Number one favorite business book.

Michael McCarthy

20:58Favorite business book?

21:01Really like Phil Knight's Shoe Dog book.

21:03Two.

Nathan Latka

21:03There know what?

Michael McCarthy

21:04Actually, How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital.

Nathan Latka

21:07That's I'm my not gonna go easy on you just because you used my book.

21:10Alright. Number two

Michael McCarthy

21:11Yeah. I'm I'm looking at it.

Nathan Latka

21:12Is there is there a CEO you're following or studying?

Michael McCarthy

21:15Is there a what?

Nathan Latka

21:16CEO you're following or studying?

Michael McCarthy

21:18I I I follow actually a a guy named Mitch Koopet a lot from from a CEO. So he used to be the former CEO at Code42, which is a backup company.

Nathan Latka

21:30Yep.

21:31Number three, what's favorite online tool for building the company?

Michael McCarthy

21:34Favorite online tool for building company? Asana, hands down.

Nathan Latka

21:37Number four, how many hours of sleep you get every night?

Michael McCarthy

21:42Five.

Nathan Latka

21:42Oh, it's brutal. Okay, and what's your situation? Married, single, kids?

Michael McCarthy

21:47I have a girlfriend, yes.

Nathan Latka

21:48Okay, not married. Kid, no kids?

Michael McCarthy

21:51No kids.

Nathan Latka

21:51And how

21:52old are you?

Michael McCarthy

21:53I am 26.

Nathan Latka

21:55So on six, last question. What do wish your 20 year old self knew?

Michael McCarthy

21:58Man, think I'm... Is this the sixth question or seventh question?

Nathan Latka

22:02No, years ago. What do you wish your 20 year old self knew?

Michael McCarthy

22:07Oh, man.

22:08Let's say... It's a tough question.

22:14So it's it's a... I'd say it's a lot harder to build a SaaS company than I probably thought it was when I was 20. So, you know, you you see a lot of stuff going on when you're 20. You're like, oh, this must be really easy. But definitely... I definitely think, like, with a lot of bootstrapped and and early stage SaaS businesses, the first two years are are the most important two years, just getting stuff up

22:32and running. And and we've gotten through those two years really well, so it's it's exciting now for for year three, year four, etcetera. So

Nathan Latka

22:39Guys, there you have it. Inkit helping a 100 paid customers connect their direct mail campaigns with their CRM. Oh, doing more than a million dollars in revenue today, hoping to break 5,000,000 in the next call, a year or so as look to scale. They've done us all by raising less than $1,000,000, team of 15 people, 10 engineers, three reps, no gross revenue churn right now and about 50% expansion. So 150% net revenue retention, again, pretty healthy,

23:00spending less than one third of their annual contract values to get the customers. That's worst case scenario right now as they look to figure out how to scale that model. Michael, thanks for taking us to the top. Cool.

Michael McCarthy

23:09Thanks, Nathan. Appreciate it.

Nathan Latka

23:11These CEOs rarely give these kinds of interviews. I hit them hard. I get the data, and I wanna do it more. So if you wanna get more of this stuff, make sure you subscribe up here. And then additionally, go check out one of my other CEO interviews right now.