Interview
How JazzHR Reached Just Under 7,000 Customers Serving SMB Recruiting During COVID (Interview with CEO Pete Lamson)
- Interview Date
- August 14, 2020
- Interviewee
- Pete LamsonCEO
Company Metrics at Interview Time
Customers (2020)
Just under 7,000
Avg Revenue per Account (2020)
A little under $200 per month
Blended CAC (2020)
$2,000
CAC Payback (2020)
Just under 12 months
Gross Annual Churn (2020)
About 12%
Historical Snapshot
These numbers were reported by Pete Lamson during the interview recorded in August 2020 and are a historical snapshot, not current figures. See JazzHR’s current numbers.
Key Takeaways
- 01JazzHR had just under 7,000 customers as of August 2020, up from about 3,500 at Pete Lamson's previous appearance in March 2018, a figure the host recalled from that earlier interview.
- 02Average account revenue was a little under $200 per month, with pricing starting at $39 per month.
- 03Blended CAC was about $2,000 with a payback period of just under 12 months.
- 04Gross revenue churn was still about 12% a year, and net churn, after expansion revenue from add-on sales and upgrades, was below 1% per month (about 0.8%).
- 05Indirect or channel sales accounted for almost 50% of new business and was growing; Pete expected it to pass 50% by the end of 2020 or early 2021.
- 06The company had 80 employees, with roughly low 20s engineers and probably 12 or 13 inside sales reps.
- 07JazzHR had not raised any additional capital since Pete Lamson's previous appearance in March 2018 and was running at cash flow breakeven.
- 08In July 2020, JazzHR customers posted just over 40,000 new jobs, a record month for the company.
- 09No single vertical represented more than 5% of JazzHR's business, providing downside protection during COVID.
- 10The company was founded in 2009 and Pete Lamson joined at the tail end of December 2015.
Company Metrics at Time of Interview
| Metric | Value | Source |
|---|---|---|
| Customers (2020) | Just under 7,000 | Interview, Aug 2020 |
| Avg Revenue per Account (2020) | A little under $200 per month | Interview, Aug 2020 |
| Starting Price (2020) | $39 per month | Interview, Aug 2020 |
| Blended CAC (2020) | $2,000 | Interview, Aug 2020 |
| CAC Payback (2020) | Just under 12 months | Interview, Aug 2020 |
| Gross Annual Churn (2020) | About 12% | Interview, Aug 2020 |
| Net Churn (monthly) (2020) | About 0.8% per month | Interview, Aug 2020 |
| Team Size (2020) | 80 | Interview, Aug 2020 |
| Engineers (2020) | Low 20s (CEO estimate) | Interview, Aug 2020 |
| Inside Sales Reps (2020) | Probably 12 or 13 | Interview, Aug 2020 |
| Channel Share of New Business (2020) | Almost 50% | Interview, Aug 2020 |
| Record Jobs Posted in a Month (July 2020) | Just over 40,000 | Interview, Aug 2020 |
| Year Founded | 2009 | Interview, Aug 2020 |
Growth Breakdown
Customers
JazzHR had just under 7,000 customers by August 2020, up from about 3,500 at Pete Lamson's previous appearance in March 2018 (the host's figure from that earlier interview), and it got there without raising additional capital. No single vertical accounted for more than 5% of the business, giving the company broad distribution across manufacturing, technology, healthcare, financial services, and nonprofits.
Revenue per Account
Average account revenue was a little under $200 per month, with entry-level pricing starting at $39 per month. Pete said the shift toward indirect or channel sales would bring CAC down and speed up acquisition, at the cost of lower gross margins and lower ARPU on a net basis because partners are paid a revenue share.
Team
The company had 80 employees as of August 2020, with Pete estimating roughly low 20s engineers and probably 12 or 13 inside sales reps split across direct and indirect teams. The direct sales team operated on a fully inbound model driven by marketing.
Profitability and Funding
JazzHR had not raised any additional capital since Pete Lamson's previous appearance in March 2018 and was running the business at cash flow breakeven, with the ability to turn cash flow positive if it chose to stop reinvesting.
Growth Strategy
Indirect and Channel Sales
JazzHR launched an indirect sales channel not long after Pete joined at the end of 2015, and by August 2020 it accounted for almost 50% of new business. Partners including payroll and human capital management companies such as ADP either resell JazzHR at a discount or refer customers in exchange for a perpetual revenue share, allowing JazzHR to move from one-to-one direct acquisition to a one-to-many model.
Inbound Marketing and Webinars
The direct sales team operated on a fully inbound model, with marketing driving prospects to JazzHR through white papers, webinars, and videos. The sales team stepped in once a prospect began a free trial or requested a product demonstration, and Pete said the lift in conversion rate more than covered the cost of the sales staff.
Value-Added Resellers
In addition to referral partners, JazzHR worked with value-added resellers who purchased JazzHR subscriptions at a discount and resold them to their own customer bases, including through embedded e-commerce solutions on partner pages.
Customer Lifetime Value as North Star
Pete described customer lifetime value as the company's North Star metric, justifying the investment in a quota-carrying inside sales team even with accounts averaging a little under $200 per month. With customers staying for roughly ten years on average, the math supported the sales cost even when not evaluated purely on initial sale revenue.
Retention Through Perpetual Revenue Share
JazzHR used its perpetual revenue share with channel partners as a retention strategy, allowing partners to accumulate recurring income that would be costly to walk away from. This approach was preferred over buyout clauses, which Pete argued would incentivize partners to switch to competitors.
Best Quotes
“So we provide recruiting solutions for small businesses, which we define as companies with between twenty five and five hundred employees. And what we do is we replace, in our target market, most customers are using some version of Microsoft Office, which is Excel docs and Word documents and email inbox management. So we replace that with a very simple to use software solution that is very affordable, easy to use, and with industry leading support.”
“In fact, we have had the most jobs posted, most new jobs posted with by JazzHR's customers in the history of our company with just the past month in July.”
“Yeah, so our account average is a little under $200 per month.”
“Our pricing starts as little as just $39 a month, so you can get the ball rolling in an even more affordable way, but average is, I guess, a little under 200 per month.”
“when I joined JazzHR, we sold only through direct means. So in other words, kind of the one to one relationship of JazzHR to a small business customer. We launched indirect sales or channel sales not long thereafter, and that today is almost 50% of our new business and growing.”
“Perpetuity. As long as their customers are paying us, we are paying them. We don't limit it after a twelve month period.”
“Now we run the business at cash flow breakeven. We could be cash flow positive if we chose to, but we plow everything we can back into the business to drive additional growth.”
“So for on a gross basis, our gross churn right now is still at about that 12% number.”
What Happened Next
This interview captured JazzHR in August 2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic: just under 7,000 customers, a record July for new job postings by its customers, no new capital raised since Pete Lamson's previous appearance in 2018, and the business run at cash flow breakeven. The figures Pete Lamson shared reflect the company's position at that point in time and should be treated as a historical snapshot, not current figures.
View JazzHR’s current profile and metricsFull Transcript
Chapters
- 0:00Introduction and Company Overview
- 0:35What JazzHR Sells and Who It Serves
- 1:21Record Job Postings During COVID
- 1:49Hiring Trends Driving Demand
- 2:37Pricing and Average Account Revenue
- 2:56Company Founding and Pete's Tenure
- 3:07Customer Growth to Just Under 7,000
- 4:11Channel and Indirect Sales Strategy
- 5:18CAC and Payback Period
- 7:31How Partnerships Work and Perpetual Revenue Share
- 10:24No New Capital Raised, Cash Flow Breakeven
- 10:41Team Size and Engineering Headcount
- 10:59Inside Sales Team and Inbound Model
- 12:41Churn and Net Revenue Retention
- 14:57Famous Five Rapid Fire Questions
Introduction and Company Overview
Nathan Latka
00:00Hello, everyone. My guest today is Pete Lamson. He is focused on building a company called JazzHR. He's also a results oriented executive with a twenty five year history of strategic metrics driven approaches to accelerating revenue. He's focused on the global small business market with deep experience and B2B high velocity new customer acquisition. As CEO of JazzHR, Lamson is responsible for JazzHR's strategic direction, company performance, day to day operations, and serves as a support center
00:24for his revenue teams. Pete, you ready to take us to the top?
Pete Lamson
00:28>> It's great to be here again, Nathan, and yes, I am.
Nathan Latka
00:30All right. So JazzHR, folks missed that first episode. What are you selling to people?
What JazzHR Sells and Who It Serves
Pete Lamson
00:35>> So we provide recruiting solutions for small businesses, which we define as companies with between twenty five and five hundred employees. And what we do is we replace, in our target market, most customers are using some version of Microsoft Office, which is Excel docs and Word documents and email inbox management. So we replace that with a very simple to use software solution that is very affordable, easy to use, and with industry leading support.
Nathan Latka
01:06So is this sort of workflow and admin management for SMBs or helping them hire or both? Helping them hire. Helping them hire. Okay, so the obvious question anyone listening is going, well, wait a second. What's Pete doing now? No small businesses are hiring right now, at least most aren't because of the virus.
Record Job Postings During COVID
Pete Lamson
01:21>> So I think it depends on where you're looking. In fact, we have had the most jobs posted, most new jobs posted with by JazzHR's customers in the history of our company with just the past month in July.
Nathan Latka
01:36Well, how... What was that number? How many posted?
Pete Lamson
01:38>> Just over 40,000.
Nathan Latka
01:40Wow. And okay, well, wait. So this is completely different than what I would have predicted the data would say. So what are you seeing when you dive into some of those 40,000 applications? What are you seeing?
Hiring Trends Driving Demand
Pete Lamson
01:49>> So it's in the areas you might, you know, when you hear them, they're sort of intuitive. So we're seeing a hiring explosion in things like logistical support. You know, all the companies and people that are involved in those trucks coming down all of our driveways every single day with the things we need to work from home. We're seeing a lot of work in healthcare. We're seeing a lot of work, a lot of hiring in technology. So
02:13>> the hiring is shifted away from some industries, tragically, such as restaurants and
02:22>> retail stores and fitness centers and so forth, but there are jobs being created elsewhere, and by the data we're seeing, literally at record levels.
Nathan Latka
02:32And help me understand what a small business might pay you to use your platform. What do they pay on average per month?
Pricing and Average Account Revenue
Pete Lamson
02:37>> Yeah, so our account average is a little under $200 per month.
Nathan Latka
02:42Okay, so very consistent, Just isn't for...
Pete Lamson
02:45>> It's designed to be affordable. Our pricing starts as little as just $39 a month, so you can get the ball rolling in an even more affordable way, but average is, I guess, a little under 200 per month.
Company Founding and Pete's Tenure
Nathan Latka
02:56And launch date for the company was what year?
Pete Lamson
03:00>> 2009.
Nathan Latka
03:01And you came on what year?
Pete Lamson
03:03>> 2000... Tail end December 2015.
Customer Growth to Just Under 7,000
Nathan Latka
03:07Okay. Got it. And we covered guys how Pete came in in the last interview back from March 28, 2018. So we won't dive into that today, but give us an update. Pete, when you came on last, you guys had just broken about 3,500 customers. What are you at today?
Pete Lamson
03:21>> Just under 7,000.
Nathan Latka
03:23Wow, okay, so incredible. Where most of that growth come from over the past two years?
Pete Lamson
03:29>> In terms of industry or by channel or...
Nathan Latka
03:31Answer it.
03:32However you define it.
Pete Lamson
03:34>> So we're, well, I'll answer both ways. So we're industry agnostic. We do have clusters of industries or verticals that are largely focused around where hiring has taken place over the last few years. So we see a lot of work in manufacturing. We'll see a lot of work at a lot of hiring in technology, healthcare, financial services, nonprofit, just to name a few. But no one vertical within our business is more than 5% of our business. So
04:04>> it's a really nice even distribution, which candidly in a time like this also gives us some downside protection.
Nathan Latka
04:10That's right.
Channel and Indirect Sales Strategy
Pete Lamson
04:11>> And then in terms of how we're acquiring them,
04:16>> when I joined JazzHR, we sold only through direct means. So in other words, kind of the one to one relationship of JazzHR to a small business customer. We launched indirect sales or channel sales not long thereafter, and that today is almost 50% of our new business and growing. I would expect it would be more than 50% by end of this year or beginning of next. And what that allows us to do is move beyond the one
04:42>> to one nature of our direct customer acquisition, which is still important, we remain 100% committed to, to the one to many nature of channel or indirect relationships. So we partner with a number of different human capital management and payroll companies who in turn offer JazzHR to their customer bases.
Nathan Latka
05:04And whether you're acquiring via a channel or direct via paid spend or something else, a bunch of writers doing great SEO work, when you look at your sort of your fully weighted blended CAC, what would you put it out to get a $200 a month customer?
CAC and Payback Period
Pete Lamson
05:18>> So we are right now just under a twelve month kind of payback. So we're a little, just about $2,000
Nathan Latka
05:25Yeah, are you happy with that?
Pete Lamson
05:28>> Not unhappy. I mean, think it always can be better. And part of our move from direct to indirect is in fact to impact that. I mean, there's no free lunch, but for indirect, what typically happens if you do it well is your CAC will go down, but you're shifting that CAC to success driven revenue share. So it's a more efficient use of use of a cost of capital. So your CAC goes down, your gross margins go
05:57>> down too, because you're paying a rev share as does your ARPU, if you're thinking at it on a net basis.
06:03>> That's a driver of our continued improvement, will continue to be a move towards indirect, which not only drives CAC, but also increases velocity of acquisition.
Nathan Latka
06:15Diving deeper on this indirect channel strategy that you launched about eighteen months after you joined the company, it's about 2016 and now is responsible for more than 50% of your business. We just had Sachin Gupta...
Pete Lamson
06:26>> Almost 50%, Kate.
Nathan Latka
06:27We just had Sachin Gupta on with HackerEarth, and he articulated how that company is now growing. They're about to break $5,000,000 in ARR. They've passed, he told us, 500 customers, super healthy economics in terms of
06:39retention. You just launched a partnership with them. How's that work?
Pete Lamson
06:43>> I'm sorry, company again is?
Nathan Latka
06:46HackerEarth.
Pete Lamson
06:47>> Yeah, so hack, I can't comment on the... I'll tell you everything that you might want know about our business. I'm not going to talk about anyone else's business. That starts to get into territory that I wouldn't share, but certainly, we have some partners that perform more than others. Partnerships typically do take a little bit of time to get up to speed, but we're dedicated to helping all of our partners perform as best as they can.
Nathan Latka
07:12Got it. Yes, sorry, and maybe this is because Chuck Brownfield is the one quoted in this press release saying, we're thrilled to integrate with HackerEarth to empower teams to hire talented engineers faster. What I'm trying to get at here is with this surreal... A real idea of a channel partner or HackerEarth, what does that actually look like? So are they putting a button for JazzHR inside of HackerEarth or vice versa? What does that...
How Partnerships Work and Perpetual Revenue Share
Nathan Latka
07:31How does it actually work?
Pete Lamson
07:33>> So it varies partner by partner.
07:37>> And we... First, we offer... We allow them to offer JazzHR to their customers either on a resale or a referral basis. So whichever they're more comfortable with. So in all cases, there'll be generally some form of recruiting promotion on their website, and that their sales teams will will be offering to their customers. Their customers either then are referred to us, in which case then we would work with their customer. If their customer chooses to purchase, then
08:06>> pay them a revenue share in perpetuity for the customer.
Nathan Latka
08:09Wow, it's in perpetuity. Wow, okay.
Pete Lamson
08:11>> Perpetuity. As long as their customers are paying us, we are paying them. We don't limit it after a twelve month period.
Nathan Latka
08:19Do you have any clause in Sorry, that
08:22I don't mean to cut you off there, but do you have any... I mean, one of the things I talk to VCs all the time about is margin improvement in businesses. And one quick way to get margin improvement in a business, obviously, if there's channel partners, a big chunk of it, is to have a clause in that channel partner agreement, all your channel partner agreements that say you have the right to buy out that rev share
08:38for forward looking twelve months at any point in time. That way, you go out raise $30,000,000, you essentially buy back whatever your rev shares with that partner. So 30% margin, right, for a forward looking twelve months. Do you have that clause built into your channel partner agreements or no? No. You don't?
Pete Lamson
08:52>> And we wouldn't. Mean, you know, yes, mathematically that will work and it'll look good on a spreadsheet and yes, you will improve your gross margin short term. It's also a great way to limit sales. Yeah, yeah. I mean, know, because that after a period of time, that partner can just switch to a competitor of ours. Yeah. We use it as a retention strategy where they get to the point where they're getting a nice chunk of change
09:12>> from us every month and it builds up over time. If they leave us, they're walking away from that. It takes time for them to rebuild that with someone else. So it's a benefit we're delighted to offer. And then the second way that we sell is of course resell. And if our partners who are reselling, which would include ADP and others,
09:37>> what they effectively do is they're purchasing a JazzHR subscription at a discount from our retail price, and then they then mark it up or not at however much they choose to do so and resell to their customers. So in that case, there is, you know, the button or or pure e commerce solution that resides on our partner pages.
Nathan Latka
09:56Now, Pete, 7,000 customers at about $190 to $200 a month. I mean, it sounds like you guys have broken about a $1.3 to $1.4 million per month now in terms of MRR.
Pete Lamson
10:05>> Yeah. We're just under 7,000, but that's... Your numbers are correct.
Nathan Latka
10:09Okay. Which is great growth. When you came back on in early twenty eighteen, you're at about an 8,590,000 run rate. So nice growth was at about 90% growth. Have you done this with the capital you'd already raised at that point? You had raised 26,600,000 back then.
No New Capital Raised, Cash Flow Breakeven
Nathan Latka
10:24Did you raise more capital?
Pete Lamson
10:25>> We have not raised any additional capital.
Nathan Latka
10:27Oh, wow. That's great. I was expecting to see you'd raise a bunch more.
Pete Lamson
10:31>> Now we run the business at cash flow breakeven. We could be cash flow positive if we chose to, but we plow everything we can back into the business to drive additional growth.
Team Size and Engineering Headcount
Nathan Latka
10:41That's great. What's a team look like today?
Pete Lamson
10:43>> Sorry, say that again?
10:44>> I said that, was just saying that's great being at breakeven.
Nathan Latka
10:48What's the team look like today? How many people?
Pete Lamson
10:52>> 80 employees.
Nathan Latka
10:5380, how many engineers?
Pete Lamson
10:55>> That's a good question. I'll say low 20s, but I'm kind of guessing.
Inside Sales Team and Inbound Model
Nathan Latka
10:59Low twenties, fair enough. And obviously this price point does not lend itself usually to an inside sales team because the ACVs aren't high enough to give commission. Do you have quota carrying sales reps on the team?
Pete Lamson
11:10>> We do.
Nathan Latka
11:11You do? Okay. So I'd love to learn about that. How many do you have and how does that work?
Pete Lamson
11:15>> So we've got, I'll say, again, I can't give you... I mean, I would give you exact numbers. I just don't know them on the top I'll of my say we've got probably 12 or 13 inside sales reps. And they're broken across our direct and indirect teams. So their their day to day activities are a little bit different, but our... With our direct team, it's entirely an inbound model. So our marketing team is driving customers to JazzHR
11:40>> where they can do a number of things. They can download a white paper, they can participate in a webinar, they can watch videos, but ultimately what we really hope they will migrate towards is beginning a free trial or request a product demonstration. And that's when our sales team really leans in, And we have found that with the addition of a sales team, the lift in conversion rate more than covers the investment we're making in those sales
12:06>> staff. And on top of it, our North Star is customer lifetime value. So so if we look at the expense of a sales team, of a quota carrying sales team to bring in a customer who's gonna stay with us for ten years ish on average, it's more, with that, through that lens, it's more than worth the investment. We don't look at it purely as a,
12:34>> the revenue we bring at the time of the initial sale, because our retention metrics are such that people tend to stick with us for a long time. So the math works.
Churn and Net Revenue Retention
Nathan Latka
12:41Yep, speaking about lifetime value, obviously churn is critical to this as part of that lifetime value equation. Last time you came on in 2018, you told me annual revenue churn was about 12%. So actually fairly low, I would say for this price point in this cohort. Is it still at around 12% or has it changed?
Pete Lamson
12:55>> It's actually a little, our net retention now is
13:01>> about 0.8% per month. I'm sorry, point 8% not retention, churn, sorry.
Nathan Latka
13:07Got it, got it. So your gross churn per month or your net churn?
Pete Lamson
13:12>> Our net churn.
Nathan Latka
13:14So net churn per month is, let's just call it 1%. 1%,
Pete Lamson
13:17>> sub 1% net churn per month.
Nathan Latka
13:19So you're under 12%.
Pete Lamson
13:20>> Yeah, that's great.
Nathan Latka
13:21Can you peel back that onion for me? Because you have expansion revenue added to churn that's So where you get the can you peel, can you give me those two metrics?
Pete Lamson
13:31>> So for on a gross basis, our gross churn right now is still at about that 12% number. And our net is 1% per month, a little over 1% per month. And I mean, we're in the 1.2s generally. And then our net is when we, because of expansion revenue, which we define as both add on sales and upgrades, is where it drops down below 1%.
Nathan Latka
14:00I see, I see. Got it. So you've got... If I just multiply times 12 to do annual, you've got about 12% gross revenue churn annually, maybe a little above 12%, you've got about five or 6% expansion. So your net revenue retention is right around 97, 98%.
Pete Lamson
14:14>> Yep.
Nathan Latka
14:15Not bad for this price point. Do you see a path to getting above 100% net revenue retention with some maybe higher priced products
Pete Lamson
14:20>> or Yeah, negative churn is of course the holy grail for SaaS companies. Easy to say hard to do in the SMB market as you suggested.
14:30>> So I hope so. Certainly that's what we keep marching towards as best we can.
14:37>> We continue to make progress towards it. I don't know if we'll get there or not, but every tenth of a point of progress we make adds value to the company and to our customers. So I hope we can get there, but even if we don't, it is an effort worth pursuing because even if we get halfway there from where we are now, we're better off.
Famous Five Rapid Fire Questions
Nathan Latka
14:57Still better off, yep. All right, Pete, let's wrap up with the famous five. Number one, favorite business book?
Pete Lamson
15:04>> Well, my favorite hasn't changed. I think it's still The Hard Thing About Hard Things.
Nathan Latka
15:08Number two, is there a founder that you really respect or admire?
Pete Lamson
15:14>> I'll say
15:17>> Dave Maffei with Akumina.
Nathan Latka
15:19Maffy, okay, great. Number three, what's n a f f what?
Pete Lamson
15:23>> EI. EI.
Nathan Latka
15:24Number three, what's your favorite online tool for building jazz?
Pete Lamson
15:30>> It's evolved right now, Sisense.
Nathan Latka
15:33Sisense. I haven't heard of those guys.
Pete Lamson
15:36>> They used to be Periscope.
15:38>> Oh, got it.
Nathan Latka
15:39Number four, how many hours of sleep do you get every night?
Pete Lamson
15:43>> Seven and a half.
Nathan Latka
15:44Okay, not bad. In situation, married, single, kids? Married. Married. How many kiddos? Any kids?
Pete Lamson
15:50>> Three.
Nathan Latka
15:51Three. Oh, a busy guy. All right, how old are you?
Pete Lamson
15:54>> 57.
15:55>> 57.
Nathan Latka
15:56Last question, what do wish you knew when you were 20?
Pete Lamson
16:08>> That's a great question.
16:11>> I'll say
16:14>> push yourself harder.
Nathan Latka
16:16Guys, there you have it. JazzHR again helping SMBs get their hiring needs taken care of. They serve almost 7,000 customers up from call it 3,500 just about twenty ish months ago. So nice growth without raising additional cash. Their breakeven today with 26,600,000 raised, approaching a $15 to $16 million run rate as it continues to drive growth even during COVID with one of their record months happening just last month. 40,000 new applications coming through their system in just one
16:42month. Pete, congrats on the growth and thanks for taking us to the top.
Pete Lamson
16:45>> Thank you.
Nathan Latka
16:47One more thing before you go. We have a brand new show every Thursday at 1PM Central. It's called Shark Tank for SaaS. We call it deal or bust. One founder comes on, three hungry buyers, they try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards, their expenses, their revenue, ARPU, CAC, LTV, you name it, they share it. And the buyers try and make a deal live. It is fun to watch every Thursday, 1PM
17:12central. Additionally, remember these recorded founder interviews go live. We release them here on YouTube every day at two p. M. Central. To make sure you don't miss any of that, make sure you click the subscribe button below here on YouTube, the big red button, and then click the little bell notification to make sure you get notifications when we do go live. I wouldn't want you to miss breaking news in the SaaS world, whether it's an acquisition,
17:33a big fundraise, a big sale, a big profitability statement or something else. I don't want you to miss it. Additionally, if you wanna take this conversation deeper and further, we have by far the largest private Slack community for B2B SaaS founders. You wanna get in there. We've probably talked about your tool if you're running a company or your firm if you're investing. You can go in there and quickly search and see what people are saying. Sign
17:54up for that at nathanlatka.com/slack. In the meantime, I'm hanging out with you here on YouTube. I'll be in the comments for the next thirty minutes. Feel free to let me know what you thought about this episode. And if you enjoyed it, click the thumbs up. We get a lot of haters that are mad at how aggressive I am on these shows, but I do it so that we can all learn. We have to counter those people.
18:12We gotta push them away. Click the thumbs up below to counter them and know that I appreciate your guys' support. Alright. I'll be in the comments. See you.