How Reveleer Hit $51M Revenue in 2023, Doubling from $25M, with 80 Customers (Interview with CEO Jay Ackerman)

Introduction to Reveleer and Host Overview

Nathan Latka

00:00Guys, reveleer launched back in 2013. Are selling specifically to insurance businesses and then also doctors and folks on the front lines to say, hey, listen, when that doctor is seeing a patient, focus on the chronic heart issue, which Jay knows he can surface because of health records that he sits on using a little bit of machine learning AI room to do there, but he scaled nicely. Broke $51,000,000 of revenue last year with about 10% EBITDA margin.

00:23The year before that, about 25,000,000. So doubled over the past eighteen months. Hoping to break a 100,000,000 this year. That's the stretch goal. We're rooting for them, funding the business in a very capital efficient way, keeping the equity new deal done with Hercules. I can't talk about Jay's specific deal, but Hercules public filings, they're usually targeting a 15.5 all in weighted yield and 11% headline rates. Sounds like they got a good deal done here as Jay

00:45is gonna hopefully use that money to go fund future acquisitions as they look to continue to expand ACV, which they've done over the past three years, expanding ACV almost three x to 9 to $900,000 in annual revenue per average employee. Hey, folks. If we haven't met yet, my name is Nathan Latka. I launched and sold my first software company back in 2015 and went on to write a book about it, which you guys made a Wall

01:09Street Journal bestseller purchasing over 30,000 copies. Thank you so much for that. After the book, I launched this show and one went on to create founderpath.com. I raised a large fund to do non dilutive deals with b to b software founders. So far, we've invested in over 400 software founders totaling a $150,000,000. Here in 2024, we're doing three to four new deals per week. So if you're looking for capital and don't wanna give up equity, go

01:38sign up at founderpath.com for free to get your offer. Alright. Let's jump into the interview. Hey, folks. My guest today is Jay Ackerman. He's an enterprise software executive responsible for setting the vision, strategy, and objectives for a reveleer. As a leader, he's also keenly focused on shaping and stewarding the culture at the company to attract a robust collaborative team while driving an innovative mandate to accelerate value based care mission. To make this really specific, reveleer is

02:04a data and analytics platform for healthcare. So super specific. We're gonna jump into it today. Jay, you ready to take us to the top?

Catching Up: 2019 Predictions and Cash Flow Milestone

Jay Ackerman

02:10>> Yeah. Can't wait, Nathan. Let's go.

Nathan Latka

02:12We were just chatting preshow. Our first chat was all the way back five years ago in 2019. You said you re listened to the episode last night. Do you get most of the predictions right?

Jay Ackerman

02:22>> More right than not. Yes. Yeah. What was the biggest thing? I mentioned to you, the one we didn't get right is we thought we would end 2019 with a business that was generating positive cash, and we didn't hit that point until 2023, but we're there now and really excited about how the business is performing.

Nathan Latka

02:43So just to be clear, last year in 2023, you guys ended up EBITDA positive, cash flow positive at the end of the year.

Jay Ackerman

02:49>> We did.

Nathan Latka

02:50Yeah. That's incredible. Congratulations. Now I have a bunch of questions in term you're doing a very a lot of very unique things. You've raised a large round from Hercules in a down market. You have successfully executed that I know of two acquisitions. A lot of founders love the idea of inorganic growth

What Reveleer Sells and Who Buys It

Nathan Latka

03:08via acquisitions, but then they fail with the integrations. I think you've done a really nice job. I wanna dig into that. But you've also have a really efficient capital structure, I think. But before we dig into any of that, let's talk about what we love, which is your customers. What are they buying from you? What are you selling?

Jay Ackerman

03:21>> Yeah, and one of there's been one major change in our customer segment since we talked in 2019. So we're selling a data and analytics platform to payers, insurance companies, and risk bearing providers, think health systems, hospitals, doctors who take risk to support value based care. And so those are our two market segments, and they're buying a software platform that helps them understand their patient's health and how well they are performing and delivering high quality care to

03:53>> them.

Nathan Latka

03:55And so help me, just to be clear, and you're selling directly to the insurance companies for the data, and then you're selling something to the doctors and hospitals, the first, the front row folks, is that right?

How AI Surfaces Patient Insights for Doctors

Jay Ackerman

04:02>> Yeah. Yeah, so think a doctor who's going to see a Medicare patient, when that patient walks into their office, they can pull up in their EMR

04:16>> a result file from us that's gonna say, Hey, Nathan's here, and we want you to focus on these three specific medical conditions that our AI has identified from a wide set of data that we've captured, that these things might be going on with them. So it allows the doctor in that fourteen to sixteen minute visit to be more efficient, to potentially capture a condition that they may have missed, and ultimately leading to better care for the

04:43>> patient. So yeah, that's a new offering for us.

Nathan Latka

04:46I mean, Jay, I go to my primary care doctor once a year, and they don't remember the stuff I told them twelve months ago. How do you sit on enough data to be able to tell the doctor, focus on these three things about Nathan, because we learned about these four years ago from this other dataset we sit on?

Data Sources and Chronic Condition Focus

Jay Ackerman

05:01>> Yeah. Well, so the thing that you know, and you've probably experienced this,

05:06>> something pops up for you and you'll go to an urgent care setting. You might have a prescription filled from CVS, you might have it fulfilled from a local small pharmacy. You may then go see a doctor out of network and you have a lab done. And so that data is not consolidated in an easy format. We're able to sweep, we identify like a geography based upon where you are, how many miles we're gonna sweep, all the

05:33>> care settings that exist, pull that data in, we're really successful. We can capture incremental data on 90% of the patients that kind of run through our platform. But the challenge is when you get all that data, you better be really good at mining it, because you can have thousands of pages of data. And so we take that thousands of pages of data and we synthesize it down to the top two or three things. And if a

05:58>> doctor is curious and doesn't understand what we're suggesting, they can click in and go exactly to the precise spot in one of those records where we're drawing that conclusion.

Nathan Latka

06:09Okay, so let's just use me as an example real quick. So like, I'm making this up, right? But let's say the example, last year I had strep throat. I went to urgent care. I didn't go to my PCP because she was too slow, right? They were too slow to I see went to urgent care. It's only four miles from the PCP. It's 12 miles away. What public data set are you able to use to know that

06:26I purchased cough drops or nasal spray at CVS because the urgent care prescribed something?

Jay Ackerman

06:34>> Yeah. Well, we're connected into a couple of the major lab systems, pharmacy data companies. So when we put your name and we can pull what data they have on your prescriptions that have been fulfilled.

Nathan Latka

06:49What are those big ones? Can you name the top three?

Jay Ackerman

06:53>> You know, there's you'll see a lot tied to diabetes. Like, you know, in our our target segment in health care, patients and Medicaid patients, those are our two biggest segments. So Medicare, you're gonna see people with diabetes, chronic heart condition, kidney disease. And so that, those are examples of the, let's call it, top conditions that stand out, obesity, morbid obesity.

Nathan Latka

07:22So you'll scrape data sets related to those things, not like strep throat from a guy like Nathan at the CVS?

Jay Ackerman

07:29>> No. No. I see. I see. Yeah. More chronic, you know, things that are gonna carry, you know, kind of year to year.

Pricing Model: Per Member Per Month

Nathan Latka

07:37Okay. I think our audience now clearly understands sort of what you're providing customers. That was extremely helpful. Help me understand how how you've priced this. So what does an insurance company pay you and what would the doctor or the hospital pay you?

Jay Ackerman

07:48>> Yeah, so our pricing model has shifted from our last discussion predominantly to a per member per month model. So that health plan, that provider, they'll pay us a set dollar amount for every number, every one of the patients in their care, and, you know, we bill we bill them portably on that. And they run their businesses under those models. So that's a well understood model and running a health plan. It's a well understood model and running

08:19>> a large health system.

Nathan Latka

08:20Yep. Yep. Okay. So yeah, that makes sense. And then when you're selling to an insurance company, what does that package look like?

Jay Ackerman

08:27>> Same thing. It's a per member per month.

Nathan Latka

08:30Ah, okay. Okay. So both. So it's two different segments, but it's the same sort of pricing model per member per month quarterly.

Jay Ackerman

08:36>> Yeah.

Nathan Latka

08:37Okay. And what what did you I forget. Pardon me. Where what did you switch from? What were you were you doing?

Jay Ackerman

08:42>> We were predominantly in a, like, sort of like a cell phone cellular plan model where you would pre purchase units on our platform. So you would pre purchase, if you had, if a health plan had 100,000 members that they were caring for, they would pre purchase, they might look at 25,000 of their patients, so they would pre purchase the units, and if they went over that, would bill them incremental overages.

Nathan Latka

09:12I see, I see.

Jay Ackerman

09:13>> And it's harder for them to model that, it's harder for them to manage kind of those overages that, you know, would often show up.

Customer Growth from 30 to 80 and ACV Expansion

Nathan Latka

09:21Yep. And I remember back in 2019, you told me that you were serving at that point about 30. I don't know what were they, if the concentration was insurance companies or doctors or hospitals, but it was 30 of that group combined. Where are you, and can you give an update on that number today?

Jay Ackerman

09:34>> Yeah, sure. So we're approximately 80, Yeah, 80 customers from 30. And our average contract values continued to grow to where we're approaching 900,000 annual contract value per customer.

Nathan Latka

09:54We have to dive into this. So guys, do not stop listening to this, and I'll tell you why. Jay's ACV back in 2019 was about 274,000. So he's more than he's not only tripled, he almost tripled his customer base from 30 to 80. He's also tripled his ACV. So I wanna dive deeper here now, Jay, how on you've done that. Was it was it inside product development with your engineering team, or do these two acquisitions that

10:17I read about come into play here?

Two Acquisitions: Dynamic Healthcare and MDPortals

Jay Ackerman

10:19>> Yeah. Both. So, yes, we continue to build product internally. We've had some phenomenal innovations using AI in our product. But both acquisitions, Dynamic Healthcare, which we acquired in beginning of early 'twenty two, and MDPortals, we acquired in 'twenty three, are allowing us to sell a more complete solution and are giving us an opportunity to go back and expand our footprint, you know, as we've proven ourselves inside of the customer segments that we've been talking about.

Nathan Latka

10:49One of the traps founders fall into is they go say, Yeah, if I just have more money, I could go buy these three companies. And they put together a beautiful Excel model, and they say, yeah, once the acquisition's done, we're gonna cross sell and ARPU's gonna expand, and the teams are gonna have no cultural issues at all, and the tech stacks are gonna match. It's gonna be perfect. How do you model an M and A process

11:05before doing it to try and derisk the operational integration that has to happen afterwards?

How to Derisk M and A Integration

Jay Ackerman

11:10>> Yeah. Yeah. It's simple, right? Like the 80% of acquisitions fail.

Nathan Latka

11:15That's true.

Jay Ackerman

11:16>> Yeah. I mean, a couple of things for us. Our acquisition strategy is centered around identifying product that rounds out the solutions that we're offering today. So when we do that, we're effectively expanding what we can offer to the same buyer. So we're not asking our sales team to go learn kind of the buying pattern of a new executive inside of a health system that has nothing to do with the people that we're currently talking with. So

11:45>> that's kind of number one. We did, in our first acquisition, acquired a more dated tech stack, and we took traditional kind of data center hosted tech stack, we've migrated it to AWS, and

Nathan Latka

12:01Which company was that? Dynamic Healthcare?

Jay Ackerman

12:04>> So we moved it into AWS, we've modernized the tech stack, now the same single brand, so the experience for the customer is they're seeing one company, the data flows across both applications.

12:20>> Culture culture is a bit is important. Dynamic was a slower moving company when we acquired it.

Nathan Latka

12:26They had 38, about thirty, thirty eight on the team when you bought it?

Jay Ackerman

12:31>> Yeah. Probably actually a little smaller than that. And And we, in the first twelve months of owning them, we sold more new business than they had sold in the prior five years. And the reason I call that out is because all of a sudden we were asking everybody to run a lot faster, to move a lot quicker, and how we were standing up new customers, operationalizing it. And for some, weren't, you know, they weren't used to

12:56>> that. Some didn't really wanna do that. We had some people who self selected out, who didn't wanna move at that pace. We're really excited about the way the team has contributed and some of the talent that has risen up. But yeah, that wasn't for everybody. MDPortals, the second acquisition, much more culturally aligned in the way we operate and the way we move. In fact, they probably have challenged us to move a little faster.

Nathan Latka

13:21How many people on their team when you bought them?

Jay Ackerman

13:24>> Yeah. I mean, there was a smaller team. It was a team of

13:28>> sub 15.

Nathan Latka

13:29Okay. Okay. So I mean, both these companies, it looks like we're bootstrapped in under $3 to $4,000,000 in revenue when you bought them. Is that a fair statement?

Jay Ackerman

13:37>> Fair for acquisition number two. Acquisition one was a cash generating business of about $7 to $8,000,000 of ARR. Like it was Oh, wow. It been a business for a long time.

Nathan Latka

13:51That's impressive though, because if they were under 30 FTEs when you bought them at '28, generating 7 to $8,000,000 of revenue, that's a cash machine. I mean, the revenue per employees through the roof, that's like record numbers, but they were bootstrapped. Right?

Jay Ackerman

14:03>> Friends and family backed. Yeah.

Nathan Latka

14:05You weren't dealing though in your negotiation with some VC that said, Jay, I want a 100 x return. It's a billion dollars for the M and A deal or bust.

Jay Ackerman

14:11>> No. No.

Nathan Latka

14:13Yeah. Interesting. And by

Jay Ackerman

14:14>> way, Ben, on the acquisition front, both of them were companies we had established partnerships with. So Mhmm. We we understood one another. We knew how our products were gonna together, we were already out selling them in the market, and it made a lot of sense to just go quicker and move to acquisition.

Nathan Latka

14:30Yeah, this makes a lot of sense.

14:33How did you make sure, I mean, do you have a history at other companies of doing M and A? How did you make sure to get that first one right? Are there any sort of pieces of advice you give our audience, consultants you use, things like that?

Jay Ackerman

14:43>> I I have done M and A in the past. I wouldn't say I mean, I've done I was a seller, I sold a business, I was a part of buying two, three other companies in the past. So a number of experiences, but not, you know, not double digits. But I think what's most important is the product. You gotta have product fit. You can't do it for financial engineering purposes. If you go down that path, yeah, your

15:12>> numbers might look nice for a little while, but it's gonna break down.

15:16>> So, and we had to have the resources internally that could support the integration work. So the one thing we did, we brought a consulting firm in to work with our team to build the playbook with Dynamic that we could use in acquisition too, and then whatever comes in the future, expect to do more acquisitions, which is why we did that raise with Hercules that you noted. Yeah. But we built a playbook to manage Who

Nathan Latka

15:44did you can I ask, Jay, who you used? Which consultant?

Jay Ackerman

15:47>> Yeah. Use we use a consulting firm. I think they're headquartered in Tennessee called Ankura.

Nathan Latka

15:54Ankura. They specifically helped you build sort of, hey, after you buy the company, do this on day one, do this on day two, do this on day three, that kind of thing?

Jay Ackerman

16:03>> Yeah. And build the tooling so that we could then manage a broad set of work streams. You know, we would have the sales, you know, marketing integration work stream, right? We had the back office work stream on how we were integrating. Like day one, finance and HR were integrated. Sales and marketing was the next stream to integrate. Then we had kind of a slower roll around product and technology. So they helped us kind of align that,

16:31>> create the playbooks that we could execute, create the methodology in which we would manage a steering committee and track the synergies that we were expecting, whether it's cost synergies or revenue synergies.

Nathan Latka

16:43Yeah. And this is just to be clear, I wanna make sure I give the right resource to my audience. It's ankura.com, Ankura.

Jay Ackerman

16:50>> Yeah. Yeah. You got it right Okay.

Revenue Revealed: $25M in 2022 to $51M in 2023

Nathan Latka

16:52Yeah. Interesting. That makes a lot of sense. Okay. So those were the two m and a deals. Look, I'm obviously running the numbers in my head trying to guess your revenue. You also seem to be pretty transparent. Are you comfortable sharing where you guys were at last year where you finished at?

Jay Ackerman

17:04>> Yeah. Sure. Yeah. And I think I've shared them in some other settings. So in 2022,

17:12>> we were 25,000,000 of revenue. 2023, we were 51, almost 52. So we doubled from '22 to '23.

Nathan Latka

17:23Wow. And

Jay Ackerman

17:24>> if our team executes well, we'll deliver like numbers in '24.

Nathan Latka

17:29You think you can double again this year? You can break a 100,000,000 this year in run rate by December?

Jay Ackerman

17:33>> It's our our target. Yeah. Yeah.

Nathan Latka

17:35It's a good It's

Jay Ackerman

17:36>> not it's not it's not our board it's not our board plan. It's not our board plan, But Yeah.

Nathan Latka

17:39Hopefully, board plan is 30% under that. Right?

Jay Ackerman

17:42>> Yeah. There's there's there's some cushion. There's some cushion. Talk to

Hercules Capital: $65M Venture Debt Facility

Nathan Latka

17:46me about Hercules because when most people think about Hercules, they think about debt. Was the 65,000,000 pure equity?

Jay Ackerman

17:52>> No, actually it was debt.

Nathan Latka

17:53It was all debt.

Jay Ackerman

17:54>> It was all debt. Now that our business is generating cash, and we have really good understanding of the unit economics of our business, We wanted to raise a debt facility to support M and A. And so Hercules is, we actually had great deal of interest from a number of parties to back

18:18>> this vision that we have for building a broad based, value based care platform and operating system for value based care. And so that 65,000,000 is effectively aligned based on ARR at really attractive curves.

Interest Rate, Exit Fees and Cost of Capital

Nathan Latka

18:34Yeah. No. This makes a lot of sense. I mean, so so one of the things that I like to do at the end of every quarter is I go study all the 10 q's and and and 10 k's from the publicly traded BDCs. Thankfully, Hercules is one of those, we can see all their deals. For example, they gave Sisense a $34,300,000 loan at 11% headline interest rate. Now, obviously, Sisense has raised $270,000,000 of equity with estimated

18:55revenues about your same size, 72,000,000. They also gave a couple other lines to others, but this this deal will eventually show in their 10 q. I'm wondering if you're able to share with us, like, the high level rate you got on that facility.

Jay Ackerman

19:06>> Well, you know, I'm I I can't I can't disclose the actual rate, but let's call it it's in the range of what you just called out.

Nathan Latka

19:14Okay. Yeah. One of the things one of the hits that Hercules gets maybe you can defend them here if your experience has been great, is they charge pretty substantial exit fees. They specifically charge scisense. I wanna make sure I get this right. Right? A a 2.55% exit fee on one deal, and then a three and then point 45% exit fee on their deal they did with Suzy, another SaaS company. How did you think about exit fees,

19:35and was that a big deal? Was that a big deal negotiation point for you?

Jay Ackerman

19:38>> It certainly was a big deal because we were thinking about what our next financing step is, and when another investor might enter. And if another investor entered in the near term horizon, would we pay that down, and what might that rate look like on a blended basis? So first off, like what was most important to us is the total interest expense that we're going to pay with front end fees, back end fees, carrying fees, and straight

20:09>> borrowing costs. That's number one. Yes, we were focused on the exit fee, and we were able to lock in at a rate that we felt comfortable with.

Nathan Latka

20:20Across

Jay Ackerman

20:22>> the total borrowing, very healthy for the environment that we're in.

Nathan Latka

20:27According to Hercules last 10 Q, which would have been the twenty twenty three Q3 number, they had approximately 3,300,000,000 of AUM, of which 25.4% of that exposure was to B2B SaaS, representing about $840,000,000 of exposure. This is a significant position for them. This deal they just did with you, in a sense, sort of own the bank. That must feel pretty good. They also say, he's smiling. They also say that their target weighted average yield is about

20:5215.5%. So to your point, if you're looking at a headline rate of eleven, twelve percent, they're gonna get their fees somewhere around that 15 over time. Did you sort of see that when you ran the all in cost of capital, you're sort of in that same range?

Jay Ackerman

21:06>> Our our all in is, I think, in the lower end of the range.

Nathan Latka

21:11Yeah. You're a better risk company than most in their portfolios. You're saying that in a nice way.

Jay Ackerman

21:17>> Yeah. Look, I mean, if you peel the top off and look into our economics, like we are running a good business. We've been efficient stewards of capital that shows up. I think our risk profile is really interesting, and not there are not a lot of companies right now that are growing, doubling, increasing And so doing both of them puts us in a position where we can, you know, ask for more favorable terms.

EBITDA Margin Just Below 10%

Nathan Latka

21:44I can totally agree with you. Absolutely. When you do 51,000,000 last year, what was your EBITDA margin? Are you talking like 10% or barely profitable?

Jay Ackerman

21:52>> We were just below 10.

Nathan Latka

21:54I mean, that that's that's ama did you knew you know you were gonna go to market with a debt deal, so you wanna make sure you could tell that that profitability story there?

Jay Ackerman

22:01>> You know, actually, the debt no. Actually, that wasn't the plan. We I would say q three, kind of felt really good about the way we were running the business, and we went to our board and our two primary financial sponsors, Upfront Ventures and Oak HC/FT, and said, 'Hey, we'd like to raise a debt round to support move in a little faster on the M and A front, and they got behind it. So it wasn't it wasn't

22:29>> part of the plan at the beginning of the year.

Nathan Latka

22:31Yep. Were you refinancing out any other debt, or is this your first debt exposure at the company?

Jay Ackerman

22:35>> We had we had, like, sub $2,000,000 of debt. That's a good question.

Nathan Latka

22:40Nothing. Yeah.

Jay Ackerman

22:41>> Yeah.

Nathan Latka

22:41So how does it feel? I mean, lot of founders, they read about VC in the paper and the billion dollar deals. And I'm like, folks never calculate the cost of getting up all that equity. It's like, man, if you can use debt and keep it, you're gonna it's gonna be way better. But I'm biased. I run a fund that does this. Let them hear it from you.

Jay Ackerman

22:56>> Yeah. Look, I'm I'm a shareholder. I've I was really excited to bring Oak in in 2021. They've been a transformative partner, but they stepped in with a big equity position. All of sudden, I took a look. I'm like, Wow, my you know, my state's gone down quite a bit. And, yeah, look, I mean, as you build, you want to make sure that

23:21>> You you can think about both. The equity, you know, equity is expensive, but it allows you to sleep better at night. And so you've been on the debt road, you've got to make sure you understand it. And yeah, we feel great about what we're building, how we're trying to use equity and debt.

23:37>> And yeah, we're excited to go from, you know, we're looking at the next kind of milestone of 200, 200 plus million.

Famous Five: Books, CEOs, Tools, and Sleep

Nathan Latka

23:43Well, we're rooting for you. I apologize. I got so into this. I lost track of time. I wanna be respectful of your your end So time let's wrap up with the famous five j. Number one, your favorite business book.

Jay Ackerman

23:52>> Well, I'll I'll use it. I'm not gonna say favorite book, but I'm gonna share a book that I recently read called Breathe. Yeah. Which is great read about

Nathan Latka

24:03Brene Brown. Right?

Jay Ackerman

24:04>> Yeah. No. No. Breathe. Not not Brene Brown, but the book Breathe, which is really about the art of how you breathe. So it's a worth it's a worthwhile read. Oh, James Nestor. Yeah. It's great. It's fantastic.

Nathan Latka

24:18Yellow cover.

Jay Ackerman

24:20>> Yep.

Nathan Latka

24:20Okay. Very good. Number yeah. Go ahead. Do you have another one?

Jay Ackerman

24:24>> No. No. Go.

24:25>> I'm ready.

Nathan Latka

24:26He's he's got his things prepared. I love it.

Jay Ackerman

24:27>> Number two is No.

24:28>> I see. Yeah. Good.

Nathan Latka

24:29Is there a CEO you're following or studying?

Jay Ackerman

24:33>> Yeah. Look, I yes. I'm focused heavily right now on ServiceNow. Mhmm. And I think what they're doing is fantastic. And you also look at how

24:44>> AI has played a part there. And when Bill McDermott left SAP to go to ServiceNow, I kind of shook my head and I said, didn't get the move. And I love paying attention to what they're doing and how he's leading that company.

24:57>> Mhmm.

Nathan Latka

24:58Number three, what's your favorite online tool for building the business?

Jay Ackerman

25:02>> Favorite online tool? I gotta tell you, I'm pretty obsessed with ChatGPT as my, like, go to app on my phone right now. So it's helping me be a more efficient CEO.

AI Utilization and Competitive Moat

Nathan Latka

25:13Yep. Everyone says they're using AI now in their stuff. You are sitting on a lot of data, so I do believe you do have some sophisticated stuff on the back end. But do you feel like, like, if you're if if a 100% is you're using AI to its full potential at the company already, it's fully installed, it's cranking, like, percentage what do you think you're on the way there?

Jay Ackerman

25:30>> Oh, I think we're as proud as I am of what we're doing, I think we're 30% of the way there, 25% of the way there. Yeah. It's a long way to go.

Nathan Latka

25:40>> Yep.

25:40Number

Jay Ackerman

25:41>> four, It how many seems of like it keeps me up at night because I think there are small companies who can get birthed overnight and very quickly make claims that they can do things that we're doing or things beyond what we're doing.

Nathan Latka

25:52The nice thing about what you built though is I imagine the big part of the moat that you sit on is getting access just to the data to train these systems is difficult. You already, because your size, have access to unique and proprietary data sets in the space for Medicare, Medicaid, diabetes, chronic heart, etc. A startup wouldn't be able to necessarily tap that as easily as you.

Jay Ackerman

26:08>> It's harder to tap that. And the other moat we have is it is very difficult to win business with health systems and insurers. And so to have 70 of them under contract, that gives us a pretty wide mode.

Nathan Latka

26:20Yeah. Yeah. All right. Number four, how many hours of sleep do you get every night?

Jay Ackerman

26:24>> Six and a half, not a lot.

Nathan Latka

26:25Situation, married, single, kids?

Jay Ackerman

26:29>> Married, two boys, 14 and 20.

Nathan Latka

26:32Oh, busy guy. And how old are you?

Jay Ackerman

26:35>> 56.

Nathan Latka

26:3656 years young. Take us back last question. Something you wish knew when you wish you knew when you were 20.

Jay Ackerman

26:42>> What do I wish I knew when I was 20?

26:46>> I think what I wish I knew when I was 20, the value of being in a company with great talent that'll push you to be better at what you do.

Nathan Latka

26:56Guys, reveleer launched back in 2013. Are selling specifically to insurance businesses and then also doctors and folks on the front lines to say, Hey, listen, when that doctor's seeing a patient, focus on the chronic heart issue, which Jay knows he can surface because of health records that he sits on using a little bit of machine learning AI room to do there, but he scaled nicely. Broke $51,000,000 of revenue last year with about 10% EBITDA margin. The

27:19year before that, about 25,000,000. So doubled over the past eighteen months. Hoping to break a 100,000,000 this year. That's the stretch goal. We're rooting for them. Funding the business in a very capital efficient way, keeping equity. A new deal done with Hercules. I can't talk about Jay's specific deal, but Hercules public filings, they're usually targeting a 15.5% all in weighted yield and 11% headline rates. Sounds like they got a good deal done here as Jay is

27:41gonna hopefully use that money to go fund future acquisitions as they look to continue to expand ACV, which they've done over the past three years, expanding ACV almost three x to 9 to $900,000 in annual revenue per average employee per per average customer. Jay, thanks for taking us to the top.