How Segmetrics CEO Keith Perhac grew Segmetrics to $6.5M revenue and 5K customers in 2026.

Nathan Latka (00:01) Hey folks, my guest today is Keith Perak. He's the founder and CEO of Segmetrics, an analytics platform designed to give marketers clarity on the long-term value of their leads. Another way to say this is, you spend money today, a customer signs up, well how do you look back and go, that was a good customer, a bad customer, et cetera. We're gonna jump into it today with Keith. Keith, you ready to take us to the top? Keith (00:18) I am, thanks, looking forward to this, this is exciting. Nathan Latka (00:21) Me too, you I do want to start off with obviously the AI trends. There's so many people, you know, you see all the one shots on X and LinkedIn going, we don't need metrics tools or interfaces anymore. I can just put it into Levelable and I have a reporting dashboard. What's your mode? Why can't people one shot segment metrics? Keith (00:36) Oh, because it's so hard. It's so hard. We've had so many. So even before AI, like we were talking with we have 130 plus integrations, something like that. And we would talk with some of these integrations before the before we built them. Be like, hey, we're building out this integration. And invariably they come back and like, no, no, no, don't build it out because we're building analytics internally. I was like, OK, sure thing. And then I'll go back six months later. I'm like, hey, where's that analytics that you were building out? It's like it was really hard. So we stopped. It's you can have. AI come in and look at some data, but how do you know it's not hallucinating? How do you trust that data? And then even if you have it, look at that data. Marketing is so complicated. Marketing is A happens, then B happens, then C happens, then maybe D happens. But really there was a B plus and maybe a B minus, and there was all these sub things. There's so many different pieces going on in your marketing that it really confuses AI. We've tried AI because When AI first started coming in, we were like, this is going to be the Holy Grail. And it's really dumb. It's you can do it for simple things, but man, no, it's attribution does not work in AI as far as we've seen. So. Nathan Latka (01:50) I do believe, mean, cause you know, my main job at founder path is investing in software companies. So we get pitched all the time. And when I, where I see real competitive motes and advantages right now, if they have a page like this on their website, it's generally a moat because you and I both know these integrations, they all push their own updates every Tuesday or every week they break. You got to go in and fix them. It's not just magic. And that is, that is something you'd have to go build 133 separate agents yourself just to manage all these integrations. So you'd agree that's one of your motes. Keith (02:07) Hmm. Agreed, agreed. think the integrations are remote. The attribution engine we built, we built a full attribution engine custom for the way that we work and the data that we filter and do all the stuff. it's, it's 12 plus years of information at this point. It's 12 plus years of learning about how this all works together. And we had another 15 years of marketing agency experience before that. So this is it's a quarter of a century of knowledge. into how this all needs to fit together for people to actually use it. And it's just not something that's out there in the ethos to be able to just say, hey, Claude, build us a analytics platform. Nathan Latka (02:57) So with this, and we'll dive more into the product, but with what you've shared so far, help us understand what's the average customer paying you per month or per year to use the technology? Keith (03:06) It really varies. So we have two kind of main customer segments that we're looking at. So there's a lot of creators. So people who are using ClickFunnels or ConvertKit or NowKit, ⁓ that type of customer are using us. They're paying us around 150 bucks a month. They have smaller lists. They have smaller needs. They don't need really in-depth data analysis. So we have plans for them because we want to support those types of bootstrappers, those types of creators, because that's who we were. Then, of course, we have the big companies. and they come in and they have very specific data needs. have very specific filters. They have really complicated things that we're helping them understand their own data. also they have millions of people on their list and they're paying us anywhere from a thousand to ten thousand. I think we got a twenty thousand at this point per month. And so it really runs the gamut. Yeah, yeah, it really just runs the gamut on how many people you got on. Nathan Latka (03:56) Is that your largest customer? 20,000 a month today? That's great. Keith (04:05) What are you looking to do? All of this stuff. But, you know, at the end of the day, we built segment metrics originally because Tableau was too expensive 20 years ago, right? So 20 years ago, Tableau was like $1,500 a month. And we're like, we're a small agency. We're not paying $1,500 a month for us to have to hook everything in and then do analytics on top of it. It was too much. And so we were like, well, let's just build something ourselves. And that's we like focusing on are those small agencies, those small creators, those Everyone needs this information and it's so hard to get if you don't have a tool built for it. Nathan Latka (04:39) So how, with that, and then I get your backstory, how many current customers are you serving today? Keith (04:45) We have, we actually just looked at, believe the number was a little north of 5,000. Nathan Latka (04:51) Okay, so you have to have that number. You're an analytics company, so you have to have that number. ⁓ Yeah, interesting. Okay, and go ahead. Keith (04:53) Yeah, exactly. But here, okay, so here's a great, I wanna point in on this, because this is a really, this talks to how difficult analytics is, is because, yeah, we have 5,000 plus customers. What percentage of those are self-serve versus agencies versus agency clients versus tech partners? Like, it starts to run a whole gamut at that point of it's no longer a simple answer of how many customers we have, right? And that's why AI is so bad at this. And so you need something that, is tangible at the end and then you can layer AI on top. Nathan Latka (05:31) Those 5,000 though, those are all paying you. They're all paying customers. Keith, I'll put you on the spot for a second. Can I take 5,000 customers times the 150 per month ACV? That puts you around 700, 800 grand a month right now. Keith (05:33) Those are, yeah, all paid customers. It's... little bit lower than that because we got some partnerships. Yeah, it's not going to be that full. Like I said, some people are paying us 1020. So it's not definitely not an even distribution. Nathan Latka (05:53) Okay. Okay. Okay. Can I put a range on it north of 500 grand a month, less than a million a month? Is that a fair range or are you lower than that? ⁓ okay. Great. Let's see your backstory. Now. I love how committed you've been to this business. You're not one these flashing the pan founders. You've been doing this for over 10 years. When did you write the first line of code and how'd you your first 10 customers? Keith (06:01) I think that's a good, a fair range that we can look at. 2015, wrote our first line of code. ⁓ The engine actually just spit out a text file to Skype. So we would ⁓ just spit out a text file and then copy paste it into Skype with our clients that we were talking with. And that was the first version of the app. then, so we were running an agency back in the day and that's, we built this internally and our clients loved it. DelphiNet, yes, that's correct. Yeah. And so, Nathan Latka (06:37) This is Delphi, is this Delphi? Yep. Just so you guys can follow along, right? So again, another story where a successful software founder, a successful software calendar comes from building an agency. He's got unique insights to his customer base. He knows exactly what to build via the agency here. Keith (06:45) no, no. Yep, exactly. And so the clients were like, this is great. Can I get a login? So we had to make it pretty and then give them a login. They were like, hey, we got some we have some ⁓ of our business associates and our friends and stuff who really need this. Can you give them access? And so we're like, OK, now we have to have credit card login. And that's kind of how it got built. ⁓ We did the whole thing. First version, I think, was done in six weeks and janky as heck. absolute janky as heck. Like I said, spits out a text file, but it was enough to start delivering value. And the last 10 plus years has been us building on top of that, adding in new features, making it more usable, helping normal people be able to see the data that builds their marketing. Nathan Latka (07:41) Let me ask you a quick question. You're uniquely positioned to answer. I see this back here with Ramit, even back before he was big. A lot of people see these creators today, let's look at Hormozi, right? And they see these massive launches on YouTube, right? Or they see Russell Brunson's success moving from internet warrior forum, right? With the beautiful red branding to his books, to then a software on top of it over a hundred million in revenue bootstrapped. ⁓ What is a big mistake you think most people make when they look at the business models that someone like Hormozi or Ramit Keith (07:46) Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Nathan Latka (08:10) our building. Keith (08:13) I think the business models are sound. think one of the biggest problems that people think of is that they're very impatient, right? So they see Ramit where he is now. They see Alex where he is now. They see Russell where he is now. And they're like, I can just do that. And they really discount the years and years of stacking the bricks and everything that came before that. And that being said, definitely learn from these people and the journey they had so you can speed that up so it doesn't take you five to 10 to 15 years to get there. But the idea that you can come in and have that clout right at the beginning, I think is a misnomer. I think there is a lot of stacking those bricks, starting small. And I think most people just get discouraged when they start small and they don't have that immediate success to like rocket to having a Netflix show or whatever Rameet's doing now, right? Like. Nathan Latka (09:10) The thing I want to, so I'm curious to get more of your feedback on the following. There's a lot of people that will brag about their LTV to CAC ratio, whether you're a creator selling a course or a software company, they'll say we're five to one. know, a company pays us 5,000 lifetime value, we spend a grand to get them, five to one is good. But if the lifetime value takes 10 years to collect, and it takes you two years to get the thousand back, that's not great. When you listen to Hormozi teach or Russell teach, Keith (09:17) Mm-hmm. Nathan Latka (09:36) Where I think they dominate that a lot of people don't talk about, it's actually the velocity of the money. In other words, it's more important to get the money back on the initial checkout. So you can reuse it than it is to have a healthy LTV to CAC ratio. You sit on all this data. Do you agree or disagree? Keith (09:50) I do agree. I think it's it's very hard, though. Like that's that's the challenge. Everyone wants a self liquidating offer. Right. And for people who don't know, self liquidating means that the amount of the offer that they're paying you upfront is the customer acquisition cost. Right. Because everything after that is just pure money. Right. It's pure profit. But that's very difficult and it's very difficult, especially in the SAS world. So we have been playing with a lot of different. self liquidating offers. We've had done boot camps. We've done ⁓ kind of live sessions. We've done a couple of things that have worked to be a self liquidating offer. But then we also want to the value for us is not in that self liquidating offer. It's in once someone starts using segment metrics, once they hit that 45 day mark, they're probably with us for three to five years. So in a SaaS company, it is very different because we do have that recurring purchase month after month after month, whereas a lot of creators and courses and stuff like that, it's a shorter time period. ⁓ What we have seen with course creators is that, man, across almost every single course creator we've ever worked with ever, the average lifetime value is six months. That was really eye-opening. like, this is a great course. It's probably like, nope, six months. This is a really crappy course. It probably has really, nope, six months. It's all six months, which is just the weirdest thing. that's really the thing is like, and we measure our ROI in, believe, 60 day. I think we wanna get ROI for a, what we call prime ads, right? So the prime, hey, start a trial, self-serve, ⁓ get going on your own. We want to see a payback in 60 days. And for other things like some of these self liquidating offers and stuff like that, we get payback in zero days or one day as you look at it. But then it's generally harder to get them to start the trial. So there's a lot of different moving pieces and moving questions that we have around that that we're constantly looking at the data and different channels perform different ways. Different offers perform better with different channels and SAS is interesting and creative. It's all so specific to your niche that you need to figure it out on your own. Yeah. Yeah. Nathan Latka (12:11) Let's dive deep on you in segment metrics for a second, just looking at January 20th, 26 data. So a couple of questions. How much total did you spend on paid marketing in that month? Keith (12:22) So we've actually dropped almost all of our ads. So we're running, think, we cut all of our ads to zero dollars middle of last year. And we just were seeing crap. And so we cut it all, ⁓ have had better growth since then, which is insanity. So. Nathan Latka (12:25) So zero. ⁓ So in January, how many free trousers did you get and where did they come from? Keith (12:46) I'd have to look at that number. don't have that on top of my head, but. Nathan Latka (12:48) What's like a range? It wouldn't have to be nailed down. Keith (12:52) think we're doing about 100 a week, I wanna say. Yeah, that sounds about right. Yeah. Nathan Latka (12:56) trials. Where are they coming from? it organic, SEO, referral partners, affiliates, boot camps? Keith (13:02) Well, it's it definitely changes. So AI has completely changed the landscape. So we've seen we were actually talking with an AI ⁓ search engine company yesterday, one of those ones that analyzes your appearance in AI and all that stuff. And we were looking at search traffic versus AI traffic because we track those separately. And search has been on a steady decline for the last year. And AI search has been on a steady increase for the last year. So. We're seeing more and more people come from AI. But if we're talking about where do we see the bulk of people come in, I think it's still a good amount from organic search. And I think the rest of it comes in from YouTube and partners are related to. So YouTube, we've been really pushing recently. And I have things to talk about about the marketing space in YouTube because it's really fascinating. But, ⁓ yeah, I think the content that we're generating and then partnerships are the the big other ones. Nathan Latka (14:01) So just to repeat that, so if you had to pick your top channel right now, is it YouTube? Is it referral partners? Partners, okay. Do you have a kickback? it 30 %? Is it for the first year in perpetuity? Keith (14:05) Partners. Partners. We do, I'm trying to remember, because we have a bunch of different plans. I believe it is 30 % for the first year, but we also have a lot of agency plans and stuff like that that go into perpetuity. ⁓ We have a lot of offers hanging around because we have our generic ones, but we also, have ones when we do a partner with someone big who has a huge audience and we're like, this is exactly in our wheelhouse. Well, what else can we do? And sometimes the partner doesn't want a a kickback, they don't want affiliate, but they want to discount for their customers, or vice versa. And so that's a big thing that we work with a lot as well. Nathan Latka (14:48) Well, so when you look at your monthly profit and loss statement and look at your expense line item and whatever you pay out to partners each month, is that in the six figures? Keith (14:58) No, barely low six figures, low six figures. It's a it hovers right? Nathan Latka (15:03) And do you have power laws? it like two partners make up 90 % of that 100 grand payout or is there no power laws? Keith (15:11) No, I'd say about a 20 year. It's definitely an 80 20. We have some really big partners and then we have long. mean, that's how all partnerships work, though, right? You have a long tail of people who bring in one person a month if that and then you have people who are bringing in 20 to 50 to 100 people a week like this. I guess not a week a month. Nathan Latka (15:13) Yeah, yeah. Yep. What are those partners doing the ones driving you the most free trials? How are they doing it? Keith (15:37) A lot of it is, and this is what I believe in the new AI kind of marketing ecosystem that we're in now. It's all about people and trust, right? So the people who are bringing us the most partnerships are really people who have their own community that have fostered trust with their community over time and to have customers or they, yeah, they have customers in a community who are good, a good fit for psychometrics. So we have partnerships with course creators who are talking to agencies or to talking to other creators and they all want to know like where the hell's my traffic coming from? Where's my revenue coming from? I don't know any of this stuff. And they're like, look, we did this webinar with psych metrics. Here's a deep dive on all of it. I have this course, sign up for psych metrics, get all this stuff, blah, blah. Yep. Yeah. There's our affiliate partner. Ooh, that page needs to be updated. That's. Nathan Latka (16:22) Mm-hmm. Can you name one or two of your most effective partners just so we can put a face to the name? Keith (16:30) I can name a couple. I'm not going to name effectiveness, but Seven Mile Media is a great partner. Love them. Ollie Richards is great. Brennan Dunn has been a wonderful partner. Yeah, we have a have a ton. We have an absolute ton. Nathan Latka (16:45) These are like individual influencers in the business space, those kinds of people. Keith (16:49) They're influencers, they're agencies, they're other products ⁓ that are kind of micro products, also in the bootstrapper community that are promoting us and working together that we've built systems together. Yeah, Paul Ace has been another great one just to drop another name. Nathan Latka (17:06) Yeah, okay. So, okay, this is helpful. We understand now how you're growing right now per month, 400 trials per week. What do you consider a good month in terms of, sorry, 400 per month new trials or 100 per week, What's a good conversion rate for you from free to paid? Keith (17:19) month. Yeah, I was going to say that would ⁓ be nice. We are so it's interesting because marketing software is really a weird space to be in. And so a lot of other SAS bootstrapers are like, I have zero point one percent turn or I have negative turn and stuff like this. So marketers are weird. ⁓ I say that being a marketer, ⁓ our trial to conversion trial to paid is actually huge. It's like 50, 60 percent. It's gigantic. However. Nathan Latka (17:50) Okay, so you signed up like 200 new customers last month. Keith (17:54) yeah. yeah. However, the churn on the first 45 days is astronomical, right? Like it's, just insanely high. And so because marketers were fickle, we're trying out stuff. We don't think anything about signing up for a piece of software, trying it out for a month and being like, ⁓ it didn't work for me or getting bored or going to the next thing or like just a new fires off to the side. And so I'm going over there. Like things come up where Nathan Latka (18:02) How high? Keith (18:23) We're a fickle group. so 45 days we have really high churn. And then after that 45 days, as I was saying, churn drops to almost nothing. Right? So once you've hit Nathan Latka (18:35) What's the percent? So first 45 day turn like 80 % of those logos turn? Keith (18:39) I wouldn't say 80. I'd say maybe I'd have to pull out that direct number, but I'd say it's in the like the 20 to 30 percent. And then it's not terrible. I mean, it's not horrible, but again, I'm looking at I'm comparing myself to other SAS companies that are dev focused or something like that or and they have. Right. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. Nathan Latka (18:48) that's not terrible in the first 45 days. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but your PLG, your bottoms up, the whole purpose is you get people in quickly. They're going to have a high turn rate first 45 days if they don't activate. Keith (19:06) Yeah, and that's why I don't see it as a problem, it's an interesting, again, I'm pushing again on that. Everyone's audience is so different. Everyone's avatar is so different. And so it's very hard when you are looking at your own marketing to say, is this good or bad? Because it's very dependent on your own business and what you want to get out of it. That's the big thing to me. Nathan Latka (19:09) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, so just to summarize all this, you're getting 400 new trials per week. You convert 60 into paid plan because it's easy to get started per month. So that's, yeah. So that's about 200 new customers per month. But then you say about 30 % of those churn first 45 days, which means about 140 are still active paying that, you know, eight, you know, that are approved about 150 a month. mean, that means you're adding like 15 to 20 K of new MRR, you know, pretty successfully month over month. Very cool. What's the team size today? Tell me more about that. How are you structured? Keith (19:36) per month. Again, wish it was a week. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Tiny, we are tiny, less than 10 people in fact. ⁓ Yeah, it was a conscious effort and it's so we're remote. There's actually only one other person here in Oregon with me and that's just by chance. ⁓ But you know, all of us have been in the industry a long time. We know a bunch of people, we've been doing this for really any of the names that you would know in the marketing space. We've been working with them and for them and we've kind of... Nathan Latka (20:01) I love that. I love that. Keith (20:27) created this brain trust of people who know marketing inside out and who know attribution inside out. And that's our entire team. So our support team is not like a third party offshore support center or anything like that. Like one of one of our support guys is the guy worked on drip for many, years. Our other one worked with Ramit and Evan Pagan and we know this stuff inside and out and that's Nathan Latka (20:48) Hmm, yep. Keith (20:55) really one of the main value props that we bring. Nathan Latka (20:58) Well, and, and, and it's great how efficiently you've done this, right? mean, if you're under 10 people and around five million of ARR, mean, that's 500 K of revenue per employee. That's awesome. Um, so, just to confirm, yeah, we've danced around this, but just to confirm you haven't raised external capital, right? Keith (21:04) Yeah, that is a really good number. We had an initial seed round for Tiny Seed way back in the day when we first started. 2020? So yeah, we had started the company before then. hit, we weren't growing where we wanted to grow, right? Like we were doing it with the agency and you can see in our MR graph when we like fired a large client and decided to work on segment metrics more. And when we stopped clients altogether and decided we're like huge growths. And so we were like, Nathan Latka (21:16) What year? Okay, so. Keith (21:40) We really need to get in this incubator. We need to get into this accelerator. We need to kind of add some fuel to the fire. Not necessarily monetary because it wasn't much money, but the, we're all in on this. And so that was, it's like a little over a hundred K. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's essentially like our friends and family. We were five, six K at that point. If I remember maybe, no, maybe we were a 10 MR. Yeah. Nathan Latka (21:53) So how much did you raise from tiny? Okay, like 125 K something like that. had you broken a million of revenue at that point? of MRR? Okay, when was your first million dollar a year? Keith (22:14) Time is a blur to me. I honestly don't remember. Nathan Latka (22:17) It would had to have been, mean, you've grown pretty quick. you're a, if you first line of code is 2014, 10 K of MRR was 2020, right? I think that's what you just said. Keith (22:23) Yeah. I want to say it. I want to say it was like 2021 or 2022. Nathan Latka (22:30) Yeah. So you went from basically nothing to, you know, something 2021, 2022, and then you're, know, four or 5 million bucks today. mean, that's, that's really healthy growth. Keith (22:38) Yeah, it's no, it's been a it's been a rocket. ⁓ It's been a little bit crazy, to be honest. ⁓ And again, I Nathan Latka (22:45) Were you ever in jeopardy? I mean, was the bank ever so low that you considered shutting things down? Keith (22:52) No, ⁓ there was a point, never considered shutting it down. There was a point where we were spending way more than we were making. And the reason was because we really believed in the growth and we. Nathan Latka (23:06) How bad, Keith? How much were you burning in that month? Do remember? Keith (23:10) I remember. just remember our bank account getting to the point where I was like, oh, I'm not comfortable with this anymore. But I also have a we've never gone into debt. So very purposely, because I am I am very debt averse. I am I always want to have money in the bank. I always want to have runway. I don't like that. I would rather take my chances and do my things and marketing and stuff like that than. have to worry about the financial stability of things. That's just me. Nathan Latka (23:41) How much money do you always want in the bank so you can sleep at night? Keith (23:45) I want at least six months runway. So, yeah, I if it's less than six months, I get really fidgety. So we at that time, we were about at the five month, four month, and I was like, I don't like this at all. So we we made some changes. We were a bit smarter with our money. Still got the same results. And that's really, you know, when you are and this this ties back to data a lot, because when people start to come to segment metrics and look at their data, It's when they are starting to fail. No one's looking at the data. No one's counting pennies when they're being successful, when they're on the up and up and they're shooting up like a rocket. Everyone's like, ⁓ I'll yeah, I'll spend $20,000 on ads this week. Like, sure, whatever. I'll get that back. We're making tons of money. And then as soon as that slows down, because it will slow down, that's when people start going like, ⁓ maybe we should look at this and like tighten up or like just just Give a look, are we spending money that we shouldn't be spending? Are we getting ROI on some of this stuff? And that's what we saw in the ads. We just weren't getting ROI from traditional ads. And so we've gone all skunkworks with our ads and been very effective because we've been very targeted with the types of ads we're doing. Nathan Latka (24:59) What would you like to do long-term with the business? Maybe a good way to ask this is if someone came to you today and offered you 60 million bucks all cash to buy the company, would you sell? Keith (25:09) I would not sell, I man $60 million to do what I want to do would be great. ⁓ So this is where I want to take the company there. I don't know if people still remember this. When you used to set up a website, you installed Google Analytics. That was just the thing you did is it doesn't matter if you never looked at it. It doesn't matter. You had to have Google Analytics on your site. That was just an obvious thing that you did. That's where I want Seqmetrics to be. Like because we're a paid product, I don't think we're ever going to get to that point. But I want people to think, hey, I'm standing up a marketing site. I really need Seqmetrics because I want to know where my traffic is coming from and how much money I'm making from each of those. And I just want it to be obvious. The biggest thing that drives me nuts, I've got lots, but one of the biggest ones is when I get on a call, a demo call, or like I'm talking to a new prospect or something like that. And they're like, this is exactly what I need. Why did I not know you existed? And I'm like, because we're bad at marketing? I don't know. ⁓ Nathan Latka (26:12) makes, make, make, makes good sense. Well, tell us, look, if people, if people are also bootstrapping, they're inspired by you, maybe they want to try you guys out. Where's the best place that they can find you online, Keith. Keith (26:16) You Yeah, come to segmetrics.io. We also own the .com segmetrics.com. They go to the same place. And then I am actually really bad on the internets, but LinkedIn is probably the best place to find me. Nathan Latka (26:35) guys first line of code was back in 2014 coming out of his agency model, ultimately between 2014 and 2020, they scaled to just 10 K a month of revenue. Right? I mean, this is the long slow growth that that takes, ultimately took one to 125 K from tiny started scaling broke a million of revenue in 2022 by 2026. This year, they're now serving over 5,000 paying customers about 150 bucks per month is what the average customer pays. So, you know, they're doing between caught four and 6 million bucks of revenue and they're doing it bootstrapped. very efficiently with a small team, which we love because that means Keith and his team have maximum optionality in terms of how they're growing. get about 400 trials per month. A lot of those come from their affiliate partners and of those trials, about 200 convert to paid 60 or so churn in the first 45 days. But after that, those 140 new customers, they really stick long-term, right? So that's about a hundred, about 10, 20 grand of new MRR per month right now, in terms of their flywheel, they turned off all paid ads. So they are all in. on referral partners, spending about a hundred grand a month paying out affiliate fees to those folks as they look to continue to scale again, wanting to spot help you spot the leaks in your funnel, be the default install. When you launch a company really focused on middle of funnel focus and slicing and dicing and the ways that you need as a founder, Keith, thanks for taking us to the top. Keith (27:48) Nathan, thanks so much, man. Have a great day.