How SIGNiX Reached 600,000 to 700,000 Companies and Seats with an 80% Partner-Led Distribution Model (Interview with CEO Jay Jumper)

Show Introduction and Guest Welcome

Nathan Latka

00:00This is the top, where I interview entrepreneurs who are number one or number two in their industry in terms of revenue or customer base. You'll learn how much revenue they're making, what their marketing funnel looks like, and how many customers they have. I'm now at $20,000 per talk. 5 and 6,000,000. He is hell bent on global domination. We just broke our 100,000 unit sole market. And I'm your host, Nathan Latka. This episode six eighty five. Coming

00:29up tomorrow morning, I talked to Danny Golin. They raised $225,000,000 further, and really, he's a very intelligent guy. He's a data focused ex Israeli fighter pilot, and his company is called. It could be the next tech IPO. Good morning, everybody. My guest this morning is Jay Jumper. He's the founder and chief executive officer along with president of a company called SIGNiX. As a highly regarded entrepreneur, Jay has worked to establish the company as the leading cloud

00:58based digital signature signature solution, a very hot space which we'll get into. He has more than twenty years of financial services and technology management experience. Additionally, Jay graduated from the University of Tennessee in 1985 With a BS in marketing, Jay, are you ready to take us to the top?

Jay Jumper

01:16I am.

Nathan Latka

01:16Okay, very good. So the electronic kind of document signing space not only is a very fragmented, it's extremely competitive. Where does SIGNiX fit in that world? And what's your business model? How do you make money?

What Makes SIGNiX Different from E-Signature Competitors

Jay Jumper

01:30Well, we're very different in a couple of ways. So we're the only cloud based digital signature company in The US or North America. Everybody else is a e signature solution. So we're very different fundamentally. We call... We we view ourselves as the independent e signature solution.

Nathan Latka

01:50So, Jay, what does that mean when you say cloud based versus electronically signed? Know, dumb that down for me.

How Cloud-Based Digital Signatures Work

Jay Jumper

01:56Okay. So I actually have a visual.

Nathan Latka

01:59Oh, great. So

Jay Jumper

01:59Look at

02:01look at this. So as you might can see, this is a document. And so what electronic signatures do is if you can see in this document, there is an overlay. So the documents in a clear overlay. And what an e signature does is they really put

02:22a signature in the overlay. They don't put anything in the document. So if I came to you and I said, Nathan, I'd like you to sign this document, but we want you to sign this clear overlay. Don't sign in the document, sign in the clear overlay. You kind of look at me like you're doing right now. Because that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Nathan Latka

02:41This is a big liability is what you're saying. It's not a real con... It won't hold up in court.

Jay Jumper

02:44Well, it will still hold up in court. It's just it's just that you're depending upon the e signature vendor being around forever and always to validate that signature because that this this all this is on this overlay is a hyperlink back to a software provider.

Nathan Latka

02:59Oh, interesting. So like when I sign with DocuSign and I see the little stamp that says sign with DocuSign with a little weird number, that's really what gives it the legal teeth. And what you're saying is Nathan, if you do that, you're highly dependent on DocuSign.

Jay Jumper

03:12A 100% for the rest of your life.

Nathan Latka

03:14I got it. So if I use you guys SIGNiX, you're gonna actually give me a completed copy. There's no overlay. It's a hard copy that'll hold up in court. I'm not dependent on you.

Jay Jumper

03:23We're going... With with with that particular company and all the other sign companies, you have a dependent signature. Your signature is dependent upon that vendor being around forever and always. Right?

Nathan Latka

03:23Yep. Yep.

Jay Jumper

03:23And so with us, we're gonna give you document and we're embedded in the document every signing event. Going... And they're gonna be digital certificates embedded in the document.

Nathan Latka

03:45Totally understood. That's great. So how do you... What's... And what's your model? Are you... Is it SaaS based or how do you charge?

Jay Jumper

03:51It's all it's all a SaaS based model.

Nathan Latka

03:53Okay. And just

Jay Jumper

03:53So we

03:54we took the infrastructure that's been around for about fifty years called PKI technology, public key infrastructure technology, and we took that to the cloud Where other vendors may have focused on ease of use early on, we focused on security. We've added ease of use and we find other e signature companies trying to add security to the module, but, you know, it's very... It's much harder to do than adding ease of use.

Nathan Latka

04:18And so what is the, give us a sense of kind of how you charge, what's the average customer paying you per month? And what does that customer look like typically middle market enterprise, etcetera?

Business Model: Partner Distribution and Private Labeling

Jay Jumper

04:28Well, a lot of our business, we're 80% of our business is really sold through software partners. So we'll private label, we'll partner with software partners where we enable them to help capture the e signature market that's sitting on their software. So if you're a software company that you know, has... I'm just trying to think... Has a 10,000 customers and you could get $250, know, they're sitting there with about a $2,500,000 market opportunity with their existing customers.

05:04So we allow them to private label our solution so it can be branded whatever their product is.

Nathan Latka

05:09This is like McDonald's has the hamburger assembly line figured out. You can go buy the document signing McDonald's and make it your own business.

Jay Jumper

05:17That's right.

Nathan Latka

05:19Fascinating. Interesting. And now what kind of sales do you get from the vendor that you white label to?

Jay Jumper

05:23What we do is we do a revenue share with them.

Nathan Latka

05:23Okay.

Jay Jumper

05:23And so they participate in the revenue we get. So we give them a very robust, highest level compliance, say, digital signature solution that they don't have to go spend millions and millions dollars trying to build, and they can have a private labeled. So they feel comfortable when they're going in highly regulated industries. It meets and exceeds the requirements needed for those industries.

Nathan Latka

05:51So whether it's the 20% that you're selling direct to other businesses or it's the 80% of the vendors doing the business for you to other businesses, again, what's the average customer paying you guys? I mean, are we talking $100, 10,000 a month? What are we doing?

Pricing: $240 per Seat per Year

Jay Jumper

06:05Well, I mean, don't get into that. Our pricing is on our website. It's basically $240 per seat and that gets you two forty transactions per year.

Nathan Latka

06:14Okay, got it. Now do most people though stick on that or do you have a robust kind of inbound sales team where expansion revenue is critical?

Jay Jumper

06:21Our emphasis really in supporting the partners. So we wanna help support the partners as they sell to their customers.

Nathan Latka

06:28Totally understand.

Jay Jumper

06:29That's where a lot of our emphasis and sales resources are. We call them farmers. So we're helping farm. We're helping our partners farm their customer base.

Nathan Latka

06:38So a big challenge in this space that I've talked with other people who've done a white label strategies at the $100,000,000 plus level is trying to put practice in place where individual vendors don't undercut each other on price. How do you set ceilings and floors on this to create an equal marketplace?

Standardized Pricing by Industry

Jay Jumper

06:54So when we go into a particular industry, we try to match pricing based upon an industry. So the pricing and industry may be based upon a price per registered investment advisor or broker dealer. And that will be different than the pricing in banking, which may be based upon in banking, may be asset size or credit union may be based upon members. So there may be so we really work on industry and we standardize that pricing. Whether

07:21partner A or partner B is going get the same pricing whatever industry they're in.

Nathan Latka

07:26Okay. Got it. So it so are you doing some level of professional services work when you sign up a new vendor to customize the SIGNiX technology for their specific niche?

API Infrastructure and Document Security Advantage

Jay Jumper

07:36Well, have very robust APIs.

Nathan Latka

07:36Ah.

Jay Jumper

07:36And this is really kind of the core of our business early on because we weren't doing this really kind of overlay type solution.

Nathan Latka

07:46Mhmm.

Jay Jumper

07:47We actually had to consume the the document and insert digital certificates in the document. So early on, people had to integrate into us. So we have... We've created very robust APIs. So when you're working in within a software, there are messages going back and forth, and the software user never knows all this is going out. And then one of the key things we have is because everything's embedded in the document, we have the ability to delete

08:15our copy of the document. Well, if it's a dependent e signature, there is really two always a minimum of two copies. One that the event that the company has and then one that software company the e signature company has because they have to maintain a copy of that e signature. And as we get into security and, you know, risk having an extra copy of your customers form and data at some other place other than your own

08:45creates a lot of liability for companies that they may not... May have not thought of.

Nathan Latka

08:49Why are they doing this? Mean, these are these are not stupid people. Right? I mean, these are RightSignature. Adobe's are huge companies that have solutions in this space that use a different tech stack than what you articulate. Why is it just more difficult to do what you're doing if the engineering cost is higher?

Jay Jumper

09:04It is much more difficult. So it's kinda like I'm creating a... When they created the car, they focused on ease of use, which is great because the early adopters were I wanna be able to just sign any document anytime. We focused on security and PKI infrastructure, and then we added ease of use.

Nathan Latka

09:24What are you at today in terms of team size, Jay?

Team Size and Company Location

Jay Jumper

09:28We're around 50.

Nathan Latka

09:30Okay. And what percent... How many of those folks are engineers?

Jay Jumper

09:35About, about a third.

Nathan Latka

09:38Okay. And where are you guys based?

Jay Jumper

09:42We're in... Based in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

Nathan Latka

09:44Oh, good. Great.

Jay Jumper

09:45Good. We have remote employees all over the place.

Nathan Latka

09:48And and then take us back... Since we kinda understand size now, take us back to when you launched this. What year did you create this company in?

Jay Jumper

09:56Repeat that question one more time.

Nathan Latka

09:57What year did you launch this company in?

Acquisition History: How Jay Bought SIGNiX in 2002

Jay Jumper

10:00Well, we actually acquired the company back in 2002. I had another financial services company, which I still run and manage. And

Nathan Latka

10:10Which one is that? What's called?

Jay Jumper

10:11We actually bought. It's called ProNvest, p r o n v e s t.

Nathan Latka

10:15Okay.

Jay Jumper

10:16It's basically a robo advisor in the financial services industry. And so we bought this technology back in 2002 for ProNvest and then really split it apart in 2008.

Nathan Latka

10:29Okay.

Jay Jumper

10:29And so and so we really bought it to really address issues we were having and needs we needed in the marketplace.

Nathan Latka

10:38So which of these companies in terms of revenue is now bigger for you? Your advisory firm or the document signing?

Jay Jumper

10:45SIGNiX.

Nathan Latka

10:46SIGNiX, but by a lot, I mean, clearly.

Jay Jumper

10:50Yeah. I mean, good good good a good pace. Mean, of them are doing very well, growing very well. Obviously, the market for e signature is, you know,

11:01very large as you as you are are learning.

Nathan Latka

11:04Yeah. I mean, you did... I wanna get in your brain because you you were basic... You did something that's interesting, which is you were running a business that had a need for something, and you realized, oh my gosh, that need is so big. I should go play in that space by acquiring a company. That's like a brilliant way to go into any new business. But I want to understand what gave you the confidence while you already

11:22had your advisory business cranking out revenue. What gave you the confidence to go in and shift focus to buy this other thing and then scale it? I mean, how'd you make that decision?

Jay Jumper

11:32Yeah. So one of the things because what ProNvest does is we provide managed accounts in the 401(k) marketplace, and our customers are 401(k) providers. Well, the demographics were so that in 2007... You got to remember since 2001, 2002. In 2007, flows in 401(k)s were going to become negative, meaning more people were taking money out than are contributing. So, you know, Nathan's retiring, and he's taken out his

12:00$500,000, where it takes a lot of us to contribute to make up for that $500,000.

Nathan Latka

12:00Yep.

Jay Jumper

12:00So we really wanted a toolset to work with our 401(k) providers to help them retain those assets through IRA rollovers. And it was a very paper intensive process. So we wanted to be able to offer a way to help them retain those assets through electronic signatures. And so I found the company, ended up becoming a customer.

Nathan Latka

12:29How'd you find them by the way?

Jay Jumper

12:31They actually called us.

Nathan Latka

12:33And what did that call sound like? I mean, were they saying, hey, we're about to go under buy us?

Jay Jumper

12:37Well, it was... Yeah. Remember, it was the dot com bust. Yeah. So they were struggling. They needed some capital. You know, we looked at it. ProNvest initially invested, became a very large investor in the company.

Nathan Latka

12:50What's very large, Jay? How much did you invest?

Jay Jumper

12:52Slightly under 50%.

Nathan Latka

12:5450% of what?

Jay Jumper

12:5650% of the company. Slightly

Nathan Latka

12:58owned Slightly under it 48% of the company.

Jay Jumper

13:01Yeah. Okay. So... And then there was an offer by a third cup... By a public public traded company to buy the company very shortly after we made our investment and they never did fulfill their obligation and we stepped in and bought the remaining part of the company.

Nathan Latka

13:16Don't name the company that made that offer, but what was the offer? What was the price?

Jay Jumper

13:21It was about 5 times what I paid for.

Nathan Latka

13:24Okay. So you got... Well, five to... Including the fact that you only paid for 50% of it?

Jay Jumper

13:30Yes. So my... It would have been... My my return would have been a five x return you know, within six months.

Nathan Latka

13:36And and what... Give me a little bit more history on this company. Did they raise a bunch of capital before... Mean, obviously, raised from you, but had they raised from other investors before you?

Jay Jumper

13:44I think... I'm sure they... Yes. They had. And they ended up selling to a publicly traded company, and I wanna get into all that. I mean, getting into a lot of history, but it would... It it sold to a publicly traded incubator.

Nathan Latka

13:44Uh-huh.

Jay Jumper

13:44And as you can remember what happened in '01, you know, it's great to have a.com, but, you know, in '02, I need to have revenue. And so when you have a

14:06lot of dot coms that are just getting their first customers that don't have a lot of revenue, have a lot of overhead expense, You know, it creates opportunity for what we did.

Nathan Latka

14:15So if this business was doing so poorly, why'd you make the decision to invest in it in the first place?

Jay Jumper

14:22Well, I saw a need in our company. I saw a need of proinvestors. I saw a need across the marketplace. I knew it was not a matter of if it was a matter of when this market was going to take off. So we really brought the company in house, incubated it during the times when, you know, when people were still trying to while, you know, trying to prove that there's a use case and acceptance for your

14:43signatures.

Nathan Latka

14:45And what did

Jay Jumper

14:45I still believe? Go ahead.

Nathan Latka

14:48Well, I was going to say, Jay, this was over. I mean, this was a long time ago. This is over, what, fifteen years ago, over a decade. Give me a sense of of company size when you purchased it. I mean, were they doing more or less than a million dollars in ARR?

Jay Jumper

14:58Less.

14:59Way less.

15:00Million dollars.

15:01But they had they had two customers.

Nathan Latka

15:02Oh, wow. Okay. They had spent a lot of money on the technology, it sounds like, but they were just...

Jay Jumper

15:06We burn them through cash like you wouldn't believe.

Nathan Latka

15:08And you're going, crap. We really need this. I'm gonna invest to keep it afloat. And if it sinks, I'll be the first one at the table to buy it.

Jay Jumper

15:15Correct. And so so we bought the tech... Kept the key engineers, and, you know, brought them on board. And we really kept it and and just continued to wait and support as this industry has continued to grow and adopt, which we're obviously now in a mainstream adoption process right

Nathan Latka

15:15Yep.

600,000 to 700,000 Companies and Seats, and Volume Discounts

Nathan Latka

15:35So fast forward, you go from two customers in 2002. How many customers are you serving today?

Jay Jumper

15:44600,000 to 700,000.

Nathan Latka

15:45Okay. And is that individual companies using you or seats inside of companies?

Jay Jumper

15:51A combination of both.

Nathan Latka

15:53Okay.

Jay Jumper

15:53But you got remember when we go sell to a particular software partner, they sell to their customers. And then their customers may have 200 to 500 to 1,000 seats within

16:11that company.

Nathan Latka

16:13And you said you're starting to, did I hear that right? 700,000 on what was the top level of that range? Okay. And I mean, mentioned earlier your per seat, you know, minimum was $249. I mean, am I doing the math wrong? If I take 700,000 times $249, that's a huge company. Something's wrong with my math.

Jay Jumper

16:31Well, obviously, don't get into to revenues as a

Nathan Latka

16:31Don't don't don't

16:36get into the revenue, but tell me where my math is wrong because I'm just using your numbers.

Jay Jumper

16:40Well, that's our... If if you bought one seat license, yes, that's $240. If you come buy 200,000 seat licenses, I'm not gonna sell it to you at $240. Right?

Nathan Latka

16:50Okay. So you go... You give a pretty... I mean, it must be a pretty significant discount then if you're doing volume.

Jay Jumper

16:56We give a discount. We really work with the industries and the partners to help them understand and understand the market. You know, you can't go work with a software company. I'm just I'm just using this example that charges

17:09$20,000 for their product and say, your e signature product is going to be $50,000

Nathan Latka

17:09Yep.

Jay Jumper

17:09You've got to work with a software company to figure out how to price a product that's right for their customers.

Nathan Latka

17:23Yeah, no, that makes total sense to me. But I mean, just want to illustrate how large I mean, because this is an important thing, People doing large enterprise sales at volume where there's thousands of seats understanding the kind of discount I think is important because that it's kind of a land and grab approach. I mean, if you do our full price at 700,000 seats times $249, you're looking at like $180,000,000 a month, right a month, which

17:43is like crazy. So it must be a very, very significant discount on $250 to seat to some of these folks, unless you're just a massive company.

Jay Jumper

17:52That's a 168,000,000 total, not per month. I wish... I like your math though, Nathan.

Nathan Latka

17:57Wait. Why is that toe... Oh, was the ARPU number you gave me of 250 that was an annual, not monthly?

Jay Jumper

18:02Yes.

Nathan Latka

18:02Oh, okay. That makes it a little more... I'm going, this guy's like... This is a this is a this is like a multibillion dollar a year revenue company, unless I'm doing some kind of math wrong. Okay. That $249 ARPU number is is is annually, not monthly.

Jay Jumper

18:02Yes.

18:14That's annual.

Nathan Latka

18:15So you're right. Yeah. That would be 180,000,000 in ARR. A little more, totally more reasonable. What's RightSignature at? Where are some competitors at? Do know?

Jay Jumper

18:22We don't have. No idea. We don't really focus on them because we're a different product and different go to market strategy. We're focused on our partners and and their customers.

Nathan Latka

18:33And they go direct to consumer.

Jay Jumper

18:35Yeah. And they go direct to consumer. So it's just a very different market. We are... We're in a land grab, as you know, right now is the industry. And what we tend to find is we wanna we wanna go pick our industries ran and we wanna go find the top software providers in those industries and we wanna partner with them. So what them monetize the signature solution?

Nathan Latka

18:54Walk me through that. How do you do that? How do you find... How do you... What what clues do you look at for a new potential partner to see if it's gonna be a work or not?

Jay Jumper

19:02Well, first of if you guys see where they are positioned in their role in industry.

ZipLogix Partnership and White-Label Strategy

Jay Jumper

19:09One of that's well publicized is ZipLogix. ZipLogix is the largest residential real estate software company in in the country. And so we're partnered with them and privately with our solutions called Digital Ink. K. And so we have a a very large portion of The US real... Realtors that are on our network. They may have not ever heard of SIGNiX, but they've all heard of Digital Ink.

Nathan Latka

19:32Yep. And you don't mind that. You don't mind being behind the scenes.

Jay Jumper

19:35No.

Nathan Latka

19:36As long as as long as you're making some cut of the of the sale, right? That the vendor's making.

Jay Jumper

19:40That's right.

Nathan Latka

19:40Now, is this, is this like a typical affiliate agreement? I mean, most companies that do this kind of thing, it's like, you know, you know, the vendor keeps 70% and the infrastructure like you keep 30%. I mean, is it something like that is the average cut?

Jay Jumper

19:53No. Nowhere near that. It's... Because we're giving them so much. We're creating a product. It's not like a a a reseller. I mean, this becomes embedded and is a a a key feature of their product.

Nathan Latka

20:04So, I mean, should I flip that? You're keeping 70%. They're keeping 30. Is it somewhere around there?

Jay Jumper

20:09You know, we don't get into the splits, but that would be, it's more reasonable to assume that assumption than the other.

Nathan Latka

20:14Is that because the reason you don't probably get into specific splits is because you probably, it's a negotiation with every vendor, right? So every vendor is a little different?

Jay Jumper

20:20Right.

Nathan Latka

20:20Yeah. Makes sense. Makes sense.

Jay Jumper

20:22Good. And it's based upon volume. It's based upon volume. So the more volume they do, the greater percentage of revenue share you get.

Nathan Latka

20:29Yep. Makes perfect sense. Awesome. Let's... Jay, let's wrap up here, with the famous... Well, actually, let me... One last question. Have you sell after you acquired this? I assume you got the money to acquire this just from your own cash flow from ProAdvisor. Right?

Jay Jumper

20:42ProNvest. Yeah.

Nathan Latka

20:42ProNvest. Sorry. Yeah. Have you raised additional capital just for for SIGNiX or have you just self funded?

Outside Capital Raised

Jay Jumper

20:48We've done a lot of self funding, but we have raised outside capital.

Nathan Latka

20:51Oh, how much?

Jay Jumper

20:53Don't get into that, but it's 9 figures.

Nathan Latka

20:55Oh, okay. Wow.

20:55So you've always

Jay Jumper

20:56said I it's 8 figures, excuse me, 8 figures.

Nathan Latka

20:59Okay. 8 figures. So call it between 10 and 99,000,000 somewhere in there. That's pretty, okay. That's pretty significant. Why'd you make the decision to do that instead of just keep self, you know, self funding?

Jay Jumper

21:07ProNvest just wasn't... Didn't have that. I mean, it couldn't... It wasn't... I didn't wanna take so much business out of ProNvest to, you know, to cannibalize ProNvest to continue to fund SIGNiX. We... We've been the largest investor in SIGNiX up until now and will continue to be. But it... You know, in order to capture this market opportunity, we needed to bring in outside investors.

Nathan Latka

21:30Got it. That makes sense. I mean... And just just to be clear, this is I think completely inaccurate information. But when my team did research on this, it looks like you guys love the last round of funding was in August 2016. It was a $6,000,000 round. That was a venture round and then you had Launch Tennessee do a series A in January 2016. And then add it all up. You've, you know, call it there's about $14,000,000 to $15,000,000

21:50bucks in the company. Is it right to assume that somewhere around accurate? Or am I leaning more towards $80,000,000 to $90,000,000?

Jay Jumper

21:56I would say it's not it's closer to that. I mean, but we're not, you know, we're not to the $90,000,000. We're we're trying to be very capital efficient

Nathan Latka

21:56Yep.

Jay Jumper

21:56In how we deploy capital. We're not out trying to educate the market. We're trying to work with partners and help them promote their solution.

Nathan Latka

22:12Guys, I get asked all the time. Nathan, you post all these interviews, hundreds of them per month. How do you do them efficiently? And guys, the answer is simple. People always agree to my calendar back to back meetings. I batch my interviews to stay very efficient. And the way that I do it is I use a tool called Acuity Scheduling Scheduling at nathanlatka.com/schedule. And the reason I use them is very simple. They keep my no show

22:35rate very low because they send out reminders about when the interview or the meeting is coming up. And also, they make it very easy to schedule time. Right? I don't have to go back and forth via email 10,000 times with people I'm trying to meet with. [email protected]. Helps me so much. And by the way, look, I like to have so many meetings. I'm the best in meetings. Okay? I do them back to back very, very efficient.

22:59You guys know me. Many people say I'm the most efficient they've ever seen. Okay? So I use the tool. It's so efficient. And by the way, I got Gavin. I said, Gavin, he's the CEO. I said, want a great deal my people. He said, Nathan, well, most people get a fourteen day trial. Isn't that great? I said, no. He's giving us a forty five day free trial at nathanlatka.com/schedule. That's not gonna stay up forever, so go

Famous Five: Books, CEOs, Tools, and Personal Life

Nathan Latka

23:20get it now. Nathanlatka.com/schedule. Makes great sense. Jay, let's wrap up here with the famous five. You ready?

Jay Jumper

23:27I'm ready.

Nathan Latka

23:28These are, like, super easy questions compared to what I've asked. Alright?

Jay Jumper

23:31Alright.

Nathan Latka

23:32Number one, what's your favorite business book?

Jay Jumper

23:39I spend more time reading white papers than I do books today, but probably the business book that probably sticks in most is probably more in the market today is Trump, The Art of the Deal.

Nathan Latka

23:49Yep. And what is the... Name some of the white paper sources you read a lot.

Jay Jumper

23:53It's a lot of our own where we're really defining what the difference between a digital and electronic signature is.

Nathan Latka

24:00Great. Number two, is there a CEO you're following or studying right now?

Jay Jumper

24:04You know, I'm a big fan of Jeff Bezos and Mark Cuban and obviously Warren Buffett coming from my investment background.

Nathan Latka

24:12Actually quick question on this. Warren Buffett always mentions and says, go the Vanguard passive, you know, S&P 500 route if you're a passive investor, you don't want to, you know, educate yourself on companies in the market. I had Andy, the CEO of Wealthfront and john, the CEO of Betterment on and they both say Warren is basically stupid for not recommending Wealthfront and Betterment keeps recommending Vanguard. Do you think Betterment and Wealthfront eventually

24:36override the market share that Vanguard's built up, which is in the trillions in terms of AUM?

Jay Jumper

24:41No.

Nathan Latka

24:42You think Vanguard keeps its lead?

Jay Jumper

24:43Vanguard keeps its lead. Vanguard's done a great job of of having a investments. What most most people don't spend a lot of time and attention on the cost associated with and having a low cost solution like Vanguard has been a very good... Done a very good job of is critical for your long term returns.

Nathan Latka

25:02Number three, is there a favorite online tool you have, like acuity scheduling?

Jay Jumper

25:07No. Probably my favorite is email, which I spend 99.9% of my time.

Nathan Latka

25:12Number four, how many hours of sleep do you get every night?

Jay Jumper

25:15I would say between,

25:18six... Five to seven.

Nathan Latka

25:21Five to seven. So average six there. Then what's your situation? Married, single, you have kids?

Jay Jumper

25:25Happily married for, twenty six years and got three kids. One out of Vanderbilt, two that play football at Tennessee, getting finance majors.

Nathan Latka

25:37Very good. And and how old are you?

Jay Jumper

25:39I am 53.

Nathan Latka

25:40Alright. Last question, Jay. Take us home here. Take us back thirty three years. What do you wish your 20 year old self knew?

Closing Advice: Hard Work and Perseverance

Jay Jumper

25:47That hard work and perseverance outdoes anything else.

Nathan Latka

25:55There you guys have it perseverance and hard work outdoes anything else from Jay again started in financial industry got addicted to a product that he was using right in the in the e signature space said, you know what, there's unique tech stack here that's way more secure and not... And it's an independent signature. I should buy this thing. I'll start by investing to maybe get information rights. It turns out they didn't get a good offer. He

26:16bought it back in 2002. He's now grown it. They've got over 700,000 seats or or people, you know, using the platform. Their main distribution channel is about 80% through vendors. Minimum they're charge... Or sorry. Maximum they're charging if they're just a one to one ratio is just $250 minimum per year per seat. Obviously, there's volume discounts in there for each vendor depending on the success ratios. Totally happy to be in the background with this team of

26:3750. Again, white labeling this through to people in different specific industries. They raised over $10,000,000, again, really competing in a highly fragmented but very competitive, and there will be many, many, many big winners in the document signing space. Jay, thank you for taking us to the top.

Jay Jumper

26:52Thank you, Nathan. Appreciate it. Have a great day.

Nathan Latka

26:54If you enjoyed Jay today, go back and listen to Nico yesterday who breaks down on how to raise your first round of funding. It would mean the world to me if you guys got any value from this episode if you would go leave a review on iTunes right now and then subscribe. You know, I hustle like heck to get these episodes out every freaking day for you guys. And trust me, I love it. I would do

27:14it with no listeners, but boy, oh, boy, it makes my day and makes my team's day when we see great reviews and get your feedback. So thanks so much. Okay, Top Tribe. I love giving away free money. I feel like, oh, we're giving away cars, and I have something special for you today. How many of you have heard our super sharp guests talk about success they've had with Facebook and Google Ads? Well, all of you listening

27:38right now... Yes. If you're listening, you get a $100 in free AdWords. Here's how you get it. K? Again, thanks for listening. Get the free $100 from Google, right, when you sign up with my website host provider, HostGator. Go sign up now to get your free money. Hostgator.com/nathan. Again, that's hostgator.com/nathan.