Richpanel Revenue, Valuation & Funding (2024)

[00:00] Guys launched in 2018. He is now working with 200 ecommerce brands processing and helping them get support questions answered faster. He ended last year with that $2,000,000 run rate. That's an average ACV of $10,000 a year, hoping it'd double this year to 4,000,000. He raised a 2,000,000 pre seed round back in 2020 at a 20,000,000 post from Sequoia, now raising a 5,000,000 seed at, call it, a 30 or 35,000,000 pre, both from customers and two additional potential [00:22] traditional VCs. Again, building richpanel to get rid of these horrible support experiences you and I know when we're checking out with most ecommerce brands. Hey, folks. My guest today is Amit RG. He's a CEO and cofounder at richpanel.com. Under his leadership, the company has grown to over 2,000 brands in three years. He leads everything product and engineering at the company and is obsessed with their motto, the best service is no service. Amit, you ready to take [00:45] us to the top? [00:47] >> I am. [00:48] What does that mean? The best service is no service? [00:51] >> My my funder is simple when I started the company. You know, if you look at any business, you look at their customer service, customers usually contacting about the same, you know, same seven to eight types of issues. But customers but business are still using agents to handle these issues. And if you contrast it with which is stupid. And if you contrast that with what happens in Amazon, where I bought like 50 items this year, maybe more, [01:15] >> and I've never contacted them once. The difference is that Amazon is productizing each of these contact reasons, you know. If I want to like return an order, cancel an order, edit anything in my order, I can do that within Amazon. I can manage my subscriptions. They now have situations where if somebody forgets a coupon code, they have a flow for it. Right? So that's the kind of interfaces that we build for other companies. And then, you [01:39] >> know, you basically eliminate all the contacts and customers able to, like, self resolve, business are able to scale. It's a win win. [01:47] That's awesome. Now when you came on the show back in July 2020, you told me you had 70 customers and you're doing about $90,000 a month in revenue. So you just passed a million dollar run rate, I think. Give us an update on the business. Where are you at today? [01:59] >> We we crossed $2,000,000 in December 2022, and we are on path to take this year to like 4,500,000. [02:06] So sorry. Last year, what did you finish at? You finished at a 2,000,000. Right? [02:10] >> Little about 2,000,000. Yes. [02:12] Oh, that's great. And how many customers? [02:15] >> 200 paying customers with the ACV of around 10,000. [02:19] Wow. Okay. So 208, that makes tons of sense. Walk me through what a customer is paying you for and if you can, you use a real customer. [02:27] >> As of today, a customer pay us for self-service resolutions approximately like $1 per resolve, and they pay us for ticket because we have both the modules. We have the agent at desk for which you pay by tickets, and we have the self-service where you pay by self-service results where an agent wasn't needed. So if it's a ticket, you pay approximately 20¢ per per ticket. If it's a, you know, self resolve, you pay like $1. So what [02:51] >> we both have vested interest to do more self-service results. [02:55] And I think when we last spoke, you said you were looking at raising a $2,000,000 round, but you weren't sure if you're gonna close it or not. You've been bootstrapped previously. What'd you end up deciding to do? [03:03] >> I did raise $2,000,000 from Sequoia at a $20,000,000 valuation. I did that in 2020. We also got selected Y Combinator but we decided to not go ahead with it. Because because this thing happened like one week before YC. YC was all remote. I'm a big YC fan. But it didn't make sense, you know, to dilute so much when we were already getting [03:24] They wanted what 7% for 125? [03:27] >> Yeah. So they put you they give you a standard valuation of like 2.1 post. And the the disadvantage that it immediately is it was remote so you don't build a network, right? When you go into a thing like YC, the major takeaway or the major benefit is the network and the kind of people you meet. That that doesn't happen over Zoom calls and like those Zoom sessions where 100 people are coming together. [03:49] Yep. Now, obviously, Sequoia put money in just at the same time at a 20,000,000 valuation. YC wants a 2,000,000 valuation. I mean, did you wanna do YC but Sequoia blocked it because it's a massive haircut on the valuation? [04:02] >> Not really. I think Sequoia was very open about it. Lots of other people in the same, you know, cohort like being funded at the same time, they did decide. My friends did decide to do with YC. Sequoia had no problem. I think they were like very cool as investors. Very open minded. If you have a reason to do it, they never block. I just spoke with a few of my existing customers where, you know, they wanted [04:23] >> in at the previous valuation because I'm doing like my next round. But they wanted in at the previous valuation. And the reason is because these people are like extremely influential. They're people like you that can like promote the shit out of richpanel. So they were like, you know, we we, you know, we are your customers over the last two years. Give us in and we want to like, you know, work very closely with you because each [04:40] >> time we do a catch up or a one hour catch up over like a review call, we're like forty five minutes just discussing personal life. Right? We're just helping each other grow and like whatever. Both the founders both have like similar problems and like similar state that we go through. So forty five minutes is that and they're like, you know, we want to invest in each other's success. And they did this and I went to Sequoia [05:00] >> and they're like, yeah, absolutely cool. You know? It makes complete sense to have these people as your. [05:05] Oh, what's going on there, YouTube? Good to see you guys. Now imagine this. You love watching these interviews with SaaS founders. But imagine if we took all of the valuation data out from over 2,807 interviews I've done manually. Saves you a lot of time. Well, we've done this. We've built it into the beautiful interface inside of Founderpath. Check this out. I'll show you how you can access this in a second, but you log in, you connect [05:28] your Stripe account, you see your valuation real time. You can see what it changed over the past eighty eight days and even set goals for valuation this year. Now the secret evaluation is there's many different ways to value a SaaS business. So the reason you're gonna see three or four different valuations inside of your Founderpath dashboard, this is all free by the way, is because depending on who's doing the buying of your SaaS company, you're gonna [05:53] get a different valuation. A VC is gonna pay a different valuation, private equity firm is different. If you're gonna do a minority sale, that's different. And if you sell the whole business, that's a different valuation. You can see all those when I hover over here. Right? So the teal is what a VC would pay. Yellow is what private equity and red is if you sold the whole thing outright. Now what's cool about this is this is [06:14] not built off random data. Again, you guys hear these interviews on YouTube. All these datas are built from real time valuation data points founders share with us on the show. So traction 1,200,000 seed round 3.7 raise. They sold 22% of their business. Go in here and filter by the event. Maybe you only wanna see companies that have sold the whole business. Well, here are a bunch that have been acquired the valuation and the multiple. Maybe you're [06:40] going out right now and you're raising your seed round. We'll go in here and look at all this recent seed deals that went down, what they raised, what valuation they raised at and what percent that they sold. There's never been a larger dataset of SaaS valuations than what you can get now inside of Founderpath. And we're thrilled to bring it to you. Alright. We're gonna go back to the YouTube video here in a second, but if [07:02] you wanna check this tool out, if you wanna jump in and sign up, you can check it out for free to get your valuation at this link. This link, founderpath.com/products/valuations. Or if you go to founderpath.com and hover over products, click on get your valuation here, and go ahead and sign up to give it a whirl. Again, all that valuation data live right inside the platform. I hope to see you there. Alright. Let's jump back into the [07:29] interview. How much are you raising right now? [07:32] >> So I'm doing a $3,500,000 round. Actually, $5,000,000 round with like a with an extension, seed extension. And I'm doing like a 500 k round for with the angels. But I started off like with like 3, 3.5 but just after my two calls that I did with VC they were like, you know, you need to take at least five. Your business is at a decent scale. So we want to take you five and then you can do your [07:57] >> series a. They they understood why I'm raising like a small round. They respect it. And they're like, if you want speed, we get it. But we want minimum that much ownership in the company. So we were like, okay. [08:07] Yep. And what what is the minimum ownership they want? [08:10] >> So, you know, they're looking at like, you know, whatever if we do, like, we close our round at 30, 35 at current stage, then they're like, we we want like substantial percent. It's not about the ownership. There are few firms that are not willing to write check sizes below that, if that makes sense. [08:26] No. It makes it makes total sense. I mean, this is these folks in seed rounds, they want 15 to 20% of the company. So even if you don't need that much money, they still wanna figure out how get to 15 to 20%. So hearing your math, it's a $5,000,000 check into a 35,000,000 post money valuation. [08:39] >> 30 it could be 30 as well. Yeah. It could be 30. [08:41] 30 pre 30 pre money, 35 post. It gets them 20% of the company. That's what they want. [08:45] >> Correct. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, why not [08:47] just push back and say, guys, listen, either you're giving me less money because I don't wanna get this diluted or you're not getting in the company. [08:53] >> I I don't do that. You know, I'm I'm actually never been the guy that will, you know, over index on valuation. I over index on the partner. I just did a call with one of the partners and I made my Sequoia partner write to him saying that if you need reference on Amit then, you know, he's he's a stand up dude. Just, you know, call me for anything. And that VC replied back to my partner at [09:15] >> Sequoia that this guy came so prepared that it was mind blowing. You know, I was I was mind blowing. So what I do is like I try to watch the partner. Like I would spend a few hours watching their videos. And I don't even ask for like 15 introductions. I'm like, you know, I'm gonna go after these three or four and I'm gonna like, you know, I'm gonna aim to shoot it. Like I'm gonna aim to [09:32] >> like bring it home. Because I think that's the right way. You're gonna work with this man for the next man or woman for the next ten to fifteen years. Very very important that you choose the right person to work with. So that's what I'm doing with my angels as well. Know. People that I love. People that are. Want the best in you and will challenge you. You can brainstorm with them. And they also understand like the [09:53] >> macroeconomics. But they can like go down to the ground level and also brainstorm when you're, you know, stuck with something. Those are like the ideal partners I want. [10:01] Yep. Fair enough. Fair enough. Take me back a little bit here to the ACV conversation. So when we spoke last year, you had 70 customers paying 1,500 a month. Now you've got way more customers, 200, but they're paying half as much per month. So are you moving down market? [10:14] >> Yes. Yes. Because what happened is we did an analysis even today, by the way, Jason. I just gave my bad. Even today, we we are going to reduce our pricing even further. So when I'm saying that we're going to cross 4,000,000, the number of customers going to like probably triple or quadruple. Because we're three x more expensive than the competition. And we as sales team were making a mistake because we're so confident of the product and [10:40] >> the value it delivers, we're making it too expensive to sign up with. They get value later on, but there are so many people that just shy away or don't try the product just because of that high price tag. So I want to change that model. I want to get them in at a lower price, then invest in CSM, then invest in delivering value, and then, you know, getting them on like higher tiers or like, you know, [10:59] >> more services. I think that's the right way. [11:01] So I want to What how do you get [11:03] How do you get your first customer paying you a $100,000 a year? What do you probably have to provide for them? [11:09] >> When you say that, what did I do to get a 100,000 or what [11:13] Well, is it well, don't name the customer, but what does your largest customer pay you today? [11:17] >> I think I have around that price, 100,000. I have like three, four customers that pay 100,000. And they've all closed like in the last quarter. I've started to go after them. And it just makes sense, you know. The only thing the only thing stopping us was not knocking on the right door. [11:32] I mean, just to be clear, the reason they're paying that much is because they're processing so many it's it's based off number of transactions per month. Right? [11:38] >> Yes. Yes. It's number of transactions per month and number of self resolves per month. Yeah. Number of self resolves per month. [11:44] So how many how many self resolving like support tickets are you resolving for someone paying you a $100,000 a year? [11:50] >> So, you know, it's it's it boils roughly boils to like 50,000. So if you take like a 100,000, it's like 8,000 per month is what they're paying. I And will have to do like, you know, 15,000 results for them for them to justify that. But it won't be 15,000. It would be more like, I'm doing like 10,000 results for them and they also are paying me additional $5,000 for oh, sorry. You know, they're also paying me [12:10] >> like a portion of that for agent help desk. But that's the Yep. [12:14] No. This makes tons of sense. So the question I was asking you, I'll just make it a bigger number now. How do you like just think product wise for a second. What these customers want? What do you have to give them where you think they won't even blink at paying you a million dollars a year? [12:28] >> Go to a bigger customer. That's it. [12:31] Well, if what okay. What if you can't? What if you have to take some of the current customers paying a $100 a month and you to give them so much value that you are able to upsell them to a million? What other things would you sell them? [12:40] >> I I cannot. I cannot because so many of my customers today are at the GMV of 10,000,000 or like 50,000,000 ecommerce guys. You know, the margins are notoriously low. If if a guy that's making like if a man that's making like 50,000,000 a year doing e commerce, maybe he's netting like 2,000,000, 3,000,000. I can't ask him to give me a million. That would be stupid. So my value to him is limited. So the way that I [13:02] >> can ask a million dollars is to get go after a person or go after a company that's doing 500,000,000 GME or billion dollars in GME and that's what I'm [13:11] So you never if 500,000,000 is your target, you're basically saying you never wanna be more than point 2% of their annual expenses? [13:17] >> I've never done that kind of a math. I'm just saying like, you know, if if you have to do that kind of a math, I'll tell you like the order to ticket ratio. Right? So depending of your like a let's let's do the math. If you're like a billion dollar company, you're doing like, you know, 800 or 80,000,000 a month, you're going to do $4,040,000,000 tickets a month with a 50% ratio. Or you know by that [13:39] >> stage will be like too efficient. So you'll be doing like 15,000,000 tickets a month. Right? And with 15,000,000 tickets, if I charge you like 10¢, that will be like 150,000 for for that month. And then on an annual basis, you'll pay me like 1,800,000. [13:56] But how many brands are there that do that how many brands are there that do a billion in GMV? [14:00] >> I can actually forget 10¢. I can even ask for like 50¢. Right? So if I do 50¢, then I'll make like 5,000,000 of that brand. Right? Mhmm. And by that same token, if I go after like a $100,000,000 brand or a $200,000,000 brand, then they will be able to pay me like a million dollars. [14:15] But Amit, how many of those are there? How many how many 100,000,000 brands are there? [14:19] >> I didn't do that math, but I can tell you that there are 50,000 stores that do more than a million dollars. [14:24] Right? My What on Amazon or where? Stores where? [14:28] >> Everywhere. Like e commerce stores that are doing like more than a million is 50,000 in the world. Right? [14:32] Interesting. What's your source on that? How did you get that number? [14:34] >> So I Pipe Candy is one source. Pipe Candy, then built with. I did Alexa ranking and then what else? What else? Shopify Plus are like 15,000 stores, that's like a straightforward math. But I think I got the number from Pipe [14:48] Interesting. How much is Shopify? All the 15,000 Shopify stores, how much do they process by themselves each month? [14:55] >> Which 50 the 50,001 are the ones that are 15,000 Shopify are Shopify Plus. They pay Shopify Plus $24,000. So they they must be doing at least a couple of million dollars to justify that 25 k fee. 24 k I see. Shopify. So they are directly in my target market. Then there is WooCommerce, then there is Magento. And that's just the e commerce as a vertical. I'm just starting at e commerce. I just took that as an [15:18] >> opportunity because 2020 was the year of COVID. We knew that this is vertical we have to start with. But in quarter four, are going to launch in other verticals this quarter. [15:26] How close are you mean, everything you're talking about is about support support support. How close are you to the actual transaction? The actual dollars getting paid? [15:35] >> On my platform? Yeah. Why would I do that? [15:39] I'm asking, are you close to the actual dollars being transacted? [15:44] >> No. No. I mean, the dollars get transacted in the sense like the agents, like there are things that you could do within the widget and check out, like it can give you a recommendation. [15:51] Yeah. I mean, you have an example on your websites. A customer says, I'm looking for a pair of running shoes under 300. Your bot responds, how about these? And there's a buy now button under two options. If they buy one of those and it's They're [16:01] >> going to the Shopify checkout or the Magento checkout. I'm not processing it. And by the way, and others are getting very strict about who's processing this payment because they wanna control it. Yeah. Yeah. They want to control it. They want their cut. Right? So that's what their business is. So I'm [16:15] hoping Is is there a world where you use the support product as a wedge to eventually get into your own payment processing? [16:21] >> No. No. I I wouldn't do that. See, my my vision is very simple. I don't even look at Zendesk, Freshdesk, all of these as competitors. Our real competitor is the $80,000,000,000 BPO market. That has to stop existing. I mean it's never a pleasure calling like an airline being on hold for thirty minutes and still not getting a resolution. Do you think the CEO of United, the CEO of Southwest doesn't wanna help you? Of course they wanna [16:44] >> help you, but the technology is so limited. They need to do what Uber has done. They need to do what Amazon has done. They need to get to a stage where their product handles 95% of the issues and only 5% come to them. When the issue is only 5%, then these people will not be somewhere in India or Philippines. They will be right here in the headquarters. These agents will have the permission, authority, and the know [17:08] >> how to actually resolve the question then and there. [17:11] >> Yep. [17:12] Or I can make It's a great vision. Listen, I'm on board. I love it. I guess, give me more of the team and the team information today. How many folks are full time? [17:20] >> 32 people. [17:21] 32 people. [17:22] >> Yeah. I should know that number. 31 or 32. Yeah. [17:25] And how many are engineers? [17:28] >> Fifteen, sixteen. [17:29] 15, Interesting. And do you have an inside sales team at this price point or it's too cheap? [17:33] >> No. It is we we do have like two salespeople, only two. Two account execs that bring in like all the revenue. [17:39] They What's their quota? [17:41] >> Thousand per month of ARR is what they have to do. [17:43] One five or five o? [17:45] >> Five o. [17:46] 50,000 of new ARR per month. So 600,000 of ARR per year. [17:50] >> Yes. Actually it's a little more than that. Maybe it's 6,000 MRR. So, you know, one AE would do 600, one is doing like 780, but that's what they have to bring in. Yes. [17:59] Got it. That makes a lot of sense. Very interesting. Well, listen. We're out of time here. I love the growth. Let's wrap up here with the famous five. Number one, what's your favorite book? [18:09] >> I'm liking 12 Rules of Life. I just started it today. [18:12] 12 Roots, Rules of Life? [18:14] >> 12 Rules of Life by Jordan Peterson. [18:16] Number two, is [18:17] there a CEO you're following or studying? [18:19] >> I love Elon Musk. I aspire to be like him. So [18:23] Number four, how many hours of sleep do you get every night? [18:26] >> Off late, I've been getting three or four hours, but I feel very refreshed. It's it's willingly willingly I'm working myself. Yeah. [18:33] Alright. I skipped number three. What's your favorite online tool for building richpanel? [18:38] >> Oh my, Notion. Notion. I'm a big Notion fan. [18:41] Number of and then what's your situation? Married, single kids? [18:47] >> Married to richpanel. Richpanel is the baby and that's all. [18:50] And how and how old are you? [18:52] >> I am 33. 34. Sorry. 34. I became 34 in December. [18:58] Happy late birthday. [18:59] >> Last question. Something you wish you knew when you were 20. [19:03] >> Something. That's a tough one. So many things, so many things. Take more risks, you know, make better friends, and be more unapologetic. [19:14] Guys launched in 2018, he is now working with 200 e commerce brands processing and helping them get support questions answered faster. He ended last year with that $2,000,000 run rate. That's an average ACV of $10,000 a year, hoping it double this year to 4,000,000. He raised a 2,000,000 pre seed round back in 2020 at a 20,000,000 post from Sequoia, now raising a 5,000,000 seed at, call it, a 30 or 35,000,000 pre, both from customers and two additional [19:37] potential traditional VCs. Again, building richpanel to get rid of these horrible support experiences you and I know when we're checking out with most ecommerce brands. Amit, thanks for taking us to the top. [19:46] >> Nathan, one last thing before I leave you. It's 2020 is when we started richpanel. That was a previous company. We need to update that. [19:52] Now are you just cheating when you say that because you want your growth to look more impressive over a very compressed period of time? Or was it was 2018 really the start date, but you pivoted in 2020? [20:01] >> No. I can I can show you when the richpanel in was incorporated? The first customer date came in, like, March 2020. [20:07] When did you write your first line of code for richpanel? [20:11] >> December 2019. [20:13] Okay. [20:14] >> Founded December 2019. [20:15] There we go. [20:16] >> Come on, Nathan. It's March 2020 and that's what I you know, your website is being referred by a lot of investors. I'm telling you, there's a company called JetCommerce where I used to do like a million dollars. I reached million dollars in ARR but it was mainly custom services. I did 2018 to '19 and I completely shut that down. It's it's also the thing that funded my richpanel initiative but richpanel first customer came in March [20:40] >> 2020. [20:41] Okay. That's fair enough. [20:42] >> But $200 a month. I remember the customer. He's still friends with me. [20:47] Alright. Yeah. I love that. I love that. We'll give you we'll give you late twenty nineteen, early twenty twenty first customer in March. I'll get that updated for you. But Amit, thanks for taking us to the top. [20:56] >> Thank you, Nathan. Pleasure. [20:58] One more thing before you go. We have a brand new show every Thursday at 1PM central. It's called Shark Tank for SaaS. We call it deal or bust. One founder comes on, three hungry buyers, they try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards, their expenses, their revenue, ARPU CAC, LTV, you name it, they share it and the buyers try and make a deal live. It is fun to watch every Thursday 1PM [21:23] Central. Additionally, remember these recorded Founder interviews go live. We release them here on YouTube every day at 2PM Central. To make sure you don't miss any of that, make sure you click the subscribe button below here on YouTube, the big red button, and then click the little bell notification to make sure you get notifications when we do go live. I wouldn't want you to miss breaking news in the SaaS world, whether it's an acquisition, a big [21:45] fundraise, a big sale, a big profitability statement or something else. I don't want you to miss it. Additionally, if you wanna take this conversation deeper and further, we have by far the largest private Slack community for B2B SaaS founders. You want to get in there. We've probably talked about your tool if you're running a company or your firm if you're investing. You can go in there and quickly search and see what people are saying. Sign up [22:07] for that at nathanlatka.com/slack. In the meantime, I'm hanging out with you here on YouTube. I'll be in the comments for the next thirty minutes. Feel free to let me know what you thought about this episode and if you enjoyed it, click the thumbs up. We get a lot of haters that are mad at how aggressive I am on these shows, but I do it so that we can all learn. We have to counter those people. We [22:27] got to push them away. Click the thumbs up below to counter them and know that I appreciate your guys'support. Alright, I'll be in the comments. See you.

hello everyone my guest today is a meet RG he's an outgoing he's outgoing and loves meeting new people and gets most ideas from listening to folks he meets he's now the founder and CEO of rich panel which is his second bootstrap company's first company is now at 20 million dollars in annual or revenues I mean you're ready to take it to the top absolutely all right let's talk rich panel here in a second but first what's this first company founded with 20 million bucks in annual revenue so that's that's a company which is based in India okay and yes or no Oh interesting well services companies you know they're okay but their margins are nowhere near as good as a SAS company right all right tell us about rich tell us all rich panel so we started rich family last year and we are a customer service software which is specifically designed for e-commerce stores okay and as this one SAS model yeah completely says so on average what are these e-commerce stores paying per month to use the technology would you say so we have eight new divisions the SUV division means about hundred dollars a month and yeah we have about 70 paying customer okay and is there another division as well if that's the enterprise division but that's that's more focused on so we actually started off the company with the enterprise division that's four people doing the entire we were in last year and that's that's the area where you know you're funding in Japan that's a problem so can I say that 200 a month times 70 customers you're doing about 14,000 hours a month right now in revenue oh that's good where were you a year ago do you remember so yeah we actually launched the beta version of the product and we didn't have any news okay so and also in July of 2018 there was no money coming in why do you separate that out I assume they're all belong on the same cap table correct no sorry I don't mean me Pope we don't know what the vision means you have your own version of what that means is it on a separate cap table the enterprise company no it's the same cap table but that's analytics and some company okay so real quick take your entire business that part included over the past 12 months what percent of your revenue was services base the ones you're just describing enterprise cohort versus true SAS so which is which is there any paying customers yes my question let's take your total revenue over the past 12 months what percent was pure SAS versus enterprise and like custom services so need a name the major chunk of the business and like more than 80 more than 80 90 percent not there but yeah okay so fair like so maybe 70% of last 12 months revenue what's coming from professional services in your enterprise cohort you basically going oh my gosh we're doing this great work for enterprises let's codify it so that small businesses that can't afford our enterprise vision can use it at scale no touch on a recurring basis absolutely so that's that's kind of true because a lot of the work that we did for enterprise found its way and some of the good that we did for enterprise clients found its way to the product which is now being used by a lot of SME companies I see okay so I mean it is the whole company all together watched you break the million dollar mark or know you think that's this year yeah well it's not like did you or did you not last your break a million in total revenue across both parts of the business okay you think you will this year though yes yeah so how do you I mean this seems to me it's a tricky focused question because you're dealing with like fifty sixty thousand dollar enterprise deals which are hard to resist versus focusing your time on scaling getting more customers no touch at $200 a month how do you split your time that is tricky so what have you been trying to do with the last one year is you to limit the focus and you know you've stopped taking the enterprise business because it just requires so much amount of custom development and we were only taking the business which which aligns with the goods of what we have for the scalable SME business so you know from from day one we saw this opportunity because even when you are working with enterprise right the customer service teams are usually using like a suite of softwares and they have to do length this multitasking capabilities versus the customer so we saw that there is an opportunity and because which panel is so deeply integrated with a platform we're able to give contextually relevant information next to each message so that you know agents have like full information before starting a conversation so that's why we really stand out and focuses you know really the cool dark part because we'd be a scene legged or thought into place clients also be interested in that have you raised capital for the business or you bootstrapped few moves not love that that's great and what's the team size today total 15 and what's the split between kind of engineers Versailles so we have but people in the customer success team be able people in prologue and the Nestor okay so 10 are engineers five are other the three that are customer success today are they carrot quota carrying obviously do they have a quota using the customer success teams people give academics I know people to that Center day so when you go on the website today we are using the customer success team on board these people under the platform and take their feedback as to you know what made us what made them you know come to the channel and stuff like that but the short answer is we don't have a these three people actually came in the company almost like a month ago okay but most people serving this role even when right when I joined the company this is a quote of bearing role typically you want to incentivize them to close more deals why didn't you do that with them either in the first month you know they have B they are handing a little bit of enterprise accounts as well so you know going forward we will have that clear line clear division where you know we were thinking of giving about sixty to eighty thousand dollars of turning to each each person target a new heir are close per month okay so if let me just make sure I get this right so if a new salesperson signs up with you you're saying their quota target would be for them over 12 months to sign up sixty thousand dollars a new annual revenue okay that salesperson though you would be losing money on them if you charged an average commission of thirty percent on sixty grand that's twenty thousand dollar Commission which essentially means their base has to be lower than 40 grand for you to make a dollar on them no so basically we beasts in India you know so to see people in the customer success demons based in India and that's that's when you know the economics really works so how well can you hire just the base component of a sales person in India would be about what base compensation so it would be 1% of see people would work on 1 percent commission yeah yeah good say I dunno I feel like good sales people would not ever work on 1 percent commission they would be doubling down on their award them performance which is you know 15,000 plus 5,000 is your performance payable plus you get like 1 or 2 percent which is the fastest eyelids plus you know I need all of these leads that we're getting today the helium bomb they don't they have to do like 0% outreach so there's money of inbound sales reps they do know how to reach at all they're still incentivize with quota which is which is true but that's that's what it is you know that that's what the CH people are being paid here yeah I mean I I know Girish should fresh works that's not how his sales team is structured and he's based there he's based there in your back yard as well I guess it all just depends on the quality of sales people that you're hiring right if you feel like they don't have to be great because your inbound channels are basically doing all the work then that's fine no it's not so basically the kind of people that we have today their responsibilities I mean it depends upon the sales portion as well right so there are people who want plate like you know or fixed versus like the high or incentivize and good sales person will always want more upside they will bet on themselves and they will want more Commission if a weak sales person will try and fight like hell for no Commission and pure fixed base so they can be lazy and do no work which is which is true but I think I think that's that's for more predictable businesses so all the revenues that we have accumulated here will will now get the confidence in the people and you know more towards like a high available in yeah so what are you talking about you know costs to get a new customer right what is your fully weighted CAC to get any $200 a month customer as of as of today Lea is spending like literally nothing moment now Google Ads most of our you know signups are coming through marketplaces because we have absolute state on commerce Magento and other platforms so that's why we're getting like most of the organic leads yeah fully weighted so that it would include salaries of your CSM's or anyone related to onboarding sales or marketing that would be about you know down your nose okay so you're spending $1,200 to get a $200 a month customer yeah it's about a six month payback you know okay fair enough and again that money's being spent on some placement in these are all the marketplace placements free WooCommerce you know all of three and the only way you can rank higher is using traditional you know issued on things the way you would rank higher they don't have we promote the listings what's your monthly turn today so because the customer base is too small it's it's hard to tell but you know over the last two or three months we will be using about 100k so that would mean like three or four percent monthly turn with 70 customers okay and I mean are they going at a bit wider churning so these customers when they signed up with our site so I promise for that abb be different from a Zendesk or address this because we're letting you take ecommerce actions right inside this like if I'm assisting a customer you see data rich customer profiles right next to the conversation and if it comes to like canceling what are you finding the order can take those actions so that was a promise when we paint them but what we didn't realize is hey you know they expect this in addition to the parity with existing players so you know when they see that we don't have like each a parody with the existing more established players what they do is they find out that maybe maybe that that's an important part of the workflow and that's that's why they're joining right so one of our major focuses in in the product roadmap is to achieve feature parity with these existing more established players right I mean let's wrap up here with the famous five number one what's your favorite business book zero to one number two is their CEO you're following or studying I really found a big one number three what's your favorite online tool for building your company okay we take on imagine number four how many hours you sleep to get every night six and what's your situation married single kids thinking okay okay and how are ya so you come again how old are you I'm thirty years thirty years old last question what do you is your 20 year old self now if I would say start soon you know I always wanted to become in that was that was something which is in a to me so yeah if I can move back in time guys rich panel calm I think of them kind of like intercom but for e-commerce brands live conversations but heat for e-commerce brands did almost a million dollars last year to this year now they have about 70 customers paying pure sass two hundred bucks a month it's at fourteen grand a month the rest their revenues from Enterprise deals custom installations but again most the revenue they're just using to reinvest in their staffs product scaling that nicely they've got a team about fifteen people building it three to four percent monthly churn spending about twelve hundred bucks get a new $200 a month customer for a six month payback period a meet thank you for taking us to the top thank you thank you