How ZenBusiness Reached 220,000 Customers and About 3x Revenue Growth in 2021 (Interview with CEO Ross Buhrdorf)

Introduction and Ross's Background

Nathan Latka

00:00Hey, folks. My guest today is Ross Buhrdorf. He's the Founder and CEO of ZenBusiness. He's got over thirty years of experience as an entrepreneur, technology leader, C level executive, angel investor, and board member. As CEO of the company, he's helping historically underserved small business owners start, run, and grow their companies through a single comprehensive guided platform that provides all the tools they need to get their business off the ground and running. Ross, you ready to take

00:21us to the top? Pardon? Are you ready to take us to the top, man?

Ross Buhrdorf

00:25>> I am, absolutely. I'm ready to go.

Pricing Strategy Evolution

Nathan Latka

00:28I'm stuck trying you know, I'm a little bit bummed because your pricing page was always the page I sent founders to as how to model instant CAC payback. Because you'd have all these one time templates you'd sell for like $49 or $79 or $60, and I just preparing for this, they're all gone now, at least I can't see them. Have you changed the pricing strategy there?

Ross Buhrdorf

00:49>> Yeah, you know, we continue to evolve the pricing strategy to match the demands of our customers, what do they need, when do they need it? I mean, the whole thesis here, Nathan, is to provide these solopreneurs, these first time entrepreneurs, everything they need in a single package. And that changes as we learn more and more and we build new products and services. At the end of the day, we're here for our customers and our customers are

01:21>> what pays our paychecks.

Nathan Latka

01:24And, Ross, so how do you make decisions around what products you use in certain scenarios or different onboarding? I mean, you've sort of bucketed into three start, you know, run, grow sort of buckets, but you could do anything when supporting small business. How are you saying, like, when are you saying, what was the last product you said no to building?

How ZenBusiness Decides What to Build

Ross Buhrdorf

01:41>> Well, we say no to a lot of products. We, you know, I'm a software engineer, I have a CS degree from the University of Texas, a lot of us do have CS degrees, it's very technical company, product led company. We've spent our career building software that no one buys, you know, in the enterprise

Nathan Latka

02:00HomeAway was pretty successful, would argue.

Ross Buhrdorf

02:02>> Yeah, HomeAway was very, very successful. And so, but even there, spent plenty of wasted effort. So we are determined at ZenBusiness to retest the heck out of everything that we build. So we talk to our customers constantly, survey them, survey them on prices, survey them on features, functionality, ask them what their journey is. We do a lot of, what are their use cases and journey? We

02:33>> challenge ourselves and even when we put into our business models, the take rates of them, we have a pretty good sense of those take rates. And we challenge ourselves to build exactly what our customers want and charge them exactly what they want to pay because that's the mix there is, are you building something that the customers want and is that value there for them to pay the amount that you're charging? So that's, I mean, it seems

03:04>> straightforward. It's hard, you know, because sometimes customers tell you one thing in a survey, but then when they put in their credit card, that's a different thing. So we have a whole bunch of tests running also to confirm that they'll actually pay with it with their credit card and then renew. So I would just say talk to your customers and test, test, test before you build.

Accounting Package Launch and Product Testing

Nathan Latka

03:29Ross, you take so much of this for granted because you're in it, but my listeners right now are going, wait, what tools does he use for surveys? How does he model the take rate? How many tests is this guy running right now through all these onboarding funnels? Let's go deep. Last product you launched, what is that product and what take rate did you model?

Ross Buhrdorf

03:43>> We just launched our Zen,

03:47>> our accounting package, which is, you know, includes our accounting and invoicing, you know, part of our ZenBusiness money. And I will tell you, we tested that from multiple angles over probably starting six months ago, and we just launched the package that we really think is going to be the, is what our customers have said they want. And we've done various testing on the website. So that's the last one we we've launched. And it's just a start.

04:18>> I mean, you know, you can't, our customers aren't static, and we reserve the right to get smarter. And

04:28>> I always like at the company, the last company meeting I put up the Roosevelt quote of man in the arena, change it a little bit. We say the team in the arena and we say the men and women in the arena. So we're in the arena every day and it's not gonna be perfect, but we really want to focus on our customers. That's the big focus.

Customer Surveying and Testing Process

Nathan Latka

04:53So six months ago, what do you do? You send an email to the top 10% most active customer defined by who logged in most recently and say, Hey, would you pay 2.9% if you put your visa transactions through our ZenBusiness Money?

Ross Buhrdorf

05:04>> No, I'll tell you, well, you make it sound simple and it's not that simple. We either, we use SurveyMonkey as a tool to do our surveys. That's one level of surveys, but then we also hire

05:24>> brand marketing research and product market research companies that do this every day. And I'd recommend a company that's got any amount of funding to use professionals and professionals go out, build the surveys and the questionnaires based on what you wanna know, based on a lot of the early SurveyMonkey Ross, who'd you use?

05:50>> We used AnswerLab out of the Valley and then we use,

05:58>> oh man, you're putting me on the spot. Use a lot of them. So if we use more than one,

06:05>> I'll come to it and I'm sure I'll remember before we get done with this. We use a lot and it doesn't, you know, and actually I don't care who they use just that they use one. You know, I think the, as we get more sophisticated, maybe ours get more expensive, but it doesn't have to be expensive. I'll tell you what, I

06:29>> literally, I was the first person at our company that did, started surveys and I used SurveyMonkey. And I asked quite literally, one of my first questions was, you know, rank the, you know, check the box on these list of products that you would like to see on the platform, literally. And still to this day, that list has held up as far as here are the list of things after formation I wanna do, banking, taxes, accounting are

07:07>> at the top, website, all these things that we sell today, we asked early on and those answers still, now we're asking way more sophisticated drilling in on each question, but if your listeners aren't doing this, they're missing a simple trick here.

Nathan Latka

07:25Very interesting. And there's a way to do this for free early on, free SurveyMonkey account, right? Get your first million revenue is a great way to do it with your wait list.

Ross Buhrdorf

07:33>> Yeah, you could definitely use a free SurveyMonkey, we paid for one.

Nathan Latka

07:37Yep, Okay. Well, yeah, you just raised a $200,000,000 round at a $1,700,000,000

Ross Buhrdorf

07:41>> paid for one early on. I

Nathan Latka

07:45hope you're paying SurveyMonkey $20 a month now.

Ross Buhrdorf

07:47>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's great product. They just got bought.

Nathan Latka

07:51Oh, did they? Who bought them?

Ross Buhrdorf

07:54>> I think

Nathan Latka

07:58Vista?

Ross Buhrdorf

07:59>> Zen Zendesk.

Customer Count: Over 220,000

Nathan Latka

08:02Oh, yeah. Look at that. I missed that news. Yep. They just bought them in October 20. Very interesting. Okay. Let's go back to you though, because last time you came on the show was back it was September last year. And what you told me then is you guys had broken 70,000 customers. In the press release for the recent raise, you said 200,000. So that's 200,000 SMB, like, paying customers. Right?

Ross Buhrdorf

08:22>> Yeah. Oh, we're over 200,000 now.

Nathan Latka

08:24What are you at now?

Ross Buhrdorf

08:26>> Two twenty or something like that.

Nathan Latka

08:28So your rate then of changes, you're adding about 20,000 new customers per thirty days. Maybe

Ross Buhrdorf

08:34>> that's probably too much, but over 10,000, between ten and twenty.

ARPU and Revenue Discussion

Nathan Latka

08:37Interesting. Now, obviously, you know, we saw HubSpot change their sort of average ARPU drastically as they IPO and then even post IPO. How are you thinking about that? Are you still at about a $20 ARPU?

Ross Buhrdorf

08:48>> That's confidential.

Nathan Latka

08:51Oh, now you're confidential. Come on, Yeah.

Ross Buhrdorf

08:54>> That's confidential. We we we can't I can't share that information anymore, but we're we're killing it.

Nathan Latka

08:59I think you I mean, from what I can tell, I mean, if you're I'm curious. Actually, let me ask this question a different way so you don't have to reveal things that are confidential. When you launch your money product and you have it live in the marketplace for a month, and you look at the take rate over the thirty days, what is the successful take rate?

Ross Buhrdorf

09:20>> Well, let me answer that question this way, that you don't have to, and I think for your listeners too,

09:29>> you don't have to have a product

09:34>> in our platform that has a 30% take rate, for example. What you want is you want packages and plans and a product led growth strategy where you give away features and functionality like for example, we were talking about SurveyMonkey and then if you need some functionality as your business grows, then we're there to sell that product or service and the reason we're there is because

10:08>> they have a fantastic experience with the formation business as they come in or with the compliance product or website product that we just relaunched with a fantastic website builder product now competes with everything in the market.

10:27>> So it's not about having this early on I thought naively it's like, oh, we have to have this killer product that

10:39>> 50% of our customers, we do have that product, but it's built into formation, the kind of the core of what we do, but we're a software platform now, we've evolved into a software platform. So it's many different businesses. So if we get a five, ten, 15% take rate, that's what really adds up and having a suite of services so that

11:06>> depending on your company,

11:10>> you pick and choose what you want. Now we are a FinTech and so with launching this FinTech we'll also be part of the transaction flow. And so part of the transaction flow is very exciting to us and to everybody that's in the FinTech business that you can make a lot of money there.

Nathan Latka

11:31I mean, I'm guessing here, Ross, but when you came on last time, 70,000 customers at $20 ARPU is at a $16,800,000 run rate, that would have been about a year and a half ago. If you're still at a $20 ARPU, which you're not, I'm guessing, I'm speculating are higher than that, but let's say you conservatively are 20 times 220,000 customers. You're out north of a $40,000,000 run rate today. You raise at over a 40 two-

Ross Buhrdorf

11:50>> Oh, hey, man. We're we're we're we're we're north of that.

Nathan Latka

11:54You break 50,000,000 this year run rate?

Embedded FinTech and ZenBusiness Money

Ross Buhrdorf

11:57>> I'm not saying.

Nathan Latka

11:59Come on, man. I gotta gotta I gotta I gotta get to Ross.

Ross Buhrdorf

12:03>> I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm not disagreeing with that.

Nathan Latka

12:06Well, I mean, the reason I ask is because you didn't use the word fintech one time. The last interview we did together makes complete sense. I mean, you look at the FinTech market now, it's very frothy. So I mean, was that a key part of your deck, it to embedded finance effectively?

Ross Buhrdorf

12:19>> Well, know, it absolutely is embedded finance. I mean, embedded finance has always been part of what we're doing. We acquired Joust, that was a challenger bank last July and we've relaunched that, modified it. And, you know, we have now accounting taxes embedded along with a invoicing product and merchant account.

Nathan Latka

12:39Take deposits?

Ross Buhrdorf

12:41>> Well, I'll tell you what, our customers don't want us to take deposits. Don't, you know, we're embedded FinTech. So we have a, you know, a FBO account or think of it as like a Venmo account. We have a holding account. That's what our customers want. They don't, they want Chase, they want Bank of America. We've got a deal with Bank of America. We think they're a fantastic partner. That's what customers want. They want this big commercial

13:05>> brand and that's okay. We just connect, connect to them via Plaid and we can move money back and forth.

Nathan Latka

13:12There's usually 300 bps up for grabs every time a transaction happens, right? On your first sort of initial cut here, I mean, can you get 10 bps, 20 bps? I mean, most of it goes to Visa, right?

Ross Buhrdorf

13:23>> Yeah, I mean, I think part of the FinTech story is being part of that transaction and enabling that for our customer base. Again, story here is that you come to us, you know, this is an underserved market. They don't know what they don't know. We curate that solution for them and we give them the best price, best product, best service of anyone in the industry. And so merchant account is there when they need it, when they're

13:55>> invoicing their first customer or their hundredth customer, we're there to be part of that. And yeah, I mean, we get a piece of the transaction, but we are below market on what we take.

Nathan Latka

14:07What is market?

Ross Buhrdorf

14:09>> I mean, it depends. I mean, you can look at what, I don't know what Square is taking and Stripe and they're not, it's not cheap.

Nathan Latka

14:18Like, I mean, but so are you like under 3%? If I do a thousand dollar invoice through ZenBusiness Money, are you gonna take under $30?

Ross Buhrdorf

14:24>> Oh, yes.

Nathan Latka

14:26Okay. So under 3%. Interesting. Because all I can when I go to your ZenMoney page and I see what are the your section, what are the fees for using ZenBusiness Money? It's not clear to me where your take is here, other than that 30¢ deposit fee.

Ross Buhrdorf

14:37>> Yeah, and you have to get in and get a merchant account.

Nathan Latka

14:41I see, that's where I would And start seeing

Ross Buhrdorf

14:43>> the merchant account comes when you do your first invoice. So we give away invoicing for free. Once you do a merchant account, then we do I see.

Nathan Latka

14:50I see. Interesting. So do you have some, if you don't add, you won't. But if you don't add any more customers, just the 220,000 you have today, if they all used you for all of their sort of invoicing processing, what is the GMV opportunity for you? I mean, are we talking in the billions, I imagine?

Ross Buhrdorf

15:06>> No, I mean, I think, gosh, you know, you need to be part of the company. I'm telling you, you know, if this thing You doesn't if you thing doesn't work know, you can just walk down the street and work for us. I mean, the way we like to think of it is, and we do, you know, we do have some humility about these questions. We're here to serve our customer. We're here to facilitate our customer. We're

15:32>> here to provision them so that they can take money. We're more focused on them making money in the first thirty, sixty, ninety days that they come to us to launch their business and facilitate them bringing money in. And so that means a merchant account, that means a website that has a pay here button, that means their expense tracking so that they could do their taxes

16:01>> and their accounting. So we're here to help them, enable them, and a website so that they can be out in the market and educational. We launched ZenBusiness Academy educational pieces and we're taking this $200,000,000 and we had a lot of money in the bank too, to launch

16:24>> our next generation platform, which is all on a mobile app and literally takes you step by step through each step of the process, that's what we're about, you know, and I think part of, you know, why FinTechs are and why banks are,

16:43>> you know, exist is, you know, we have to pay for that infrastructure that facilitates the transaction, and it's fair that we should get a piece of that action. Who

Nathan Latka

16:54led the Series C?

Series C Led by Oak HC/FT

Ross Buhrdorf

16:58>> Oak. Oak HC/FT. So they're a leading fintech venture firm.

Nathan Latka

17:03You know? Yeah. Know they're top top guys. Now did LegalZoom get wind of this and try and make an offer ahead of time to buy you guys? No. None. And

Ross Buhrdorf

17:12>> I wouldn't tell you anyhow. You know, I wouldn't tell you anyhow.

Nathan Latka

17:17I'm glad you asked. Part.

Ross Buhrdorf

17:20>> Cut. Cut. I'm glad you asked. I'm glad you asked.

Nathan Latka

17:23No. The reason I asked that is because, you know, you actually strike me as a very sort of humble founder who really wants to serve SMBs. And I've just seen many times you raise this much VC, but see, you've gone through it. You raise as much VC. It actually shortens your timeline. You have to do one thing much faster, either success big or fail faster. So you sort of short, don't you shorten your timeline a little

17:43bit by raising so aggressively?

Ross Buhrdorf

17:46>> Oh, absolutely. I mean, but that's,

17:51>> I mean, we, you know, you know,

17:54>> you only live once, and so I'm not in this for a lifestyle business,

18:03>> for all those entrepreneurs, there's nothing wrong with money, and apparently there's no lack of money if you look at the billionaires that live in this town now.

Equity, Hiring, and Team Size

Ross Buhrdorf

18:14>> All of my full time employees have stock and so do I. I'm the biggest shareholder in the company. So there's nothing wrong with us accelerating it. I'm also of the thesis, you know, we're all very, very smart at this company, but there's a lot of smart entrepreneurs out there. There's a lot of competition. So the company that has the most capital, it's a huge advantage. Talent, so talent, talent. Yeah, well, yeah, absolutely. And we hired 43

18:46>> people last month. Can you believe this?

Nathan Latka

18:49Wow. What, you're at 300 full time now?

Ross Buhrdorf

18:52>> Three eighty.

Nathan Latka

18:54Oh, three eighty full time. Wow. Okay. Interesting.

Revenue Growth: Close to 3x

Ross Buhrdorf

18:56>> So we're, I mean, we're rocking and rolling, building out the platform. And so that money absolutely accelerates stuff.

Nathan Latka

19:05How many engineers, Ross?

Ross Buhrdorf

19:09>> 150.

Nathan Latka

19:11Wow, okay. Hey, I wanna be respectful of your time. We're out of it. Quick rapid fire questions here. Revenue growth last twelve months, 200, 300%?

Ross Buhrdorf

19:19>> We're going to do close to three X revenue growth this year.

Nathan Latka

19:25But what about the last twelve months? So like 300% ish?

Ross Buhrdorf

19:30>> Yes, three X.

Nathan Latka

19:31Yeah, three X. Okay, cool. And then your recent valuation was 1.7. This is a boring question because you're just financial, but the 55 series B, where was that at?

Series B and Valuation History

Ross Buhrdorf

19:42>> It was — we announced 55 and ended up being 56. And 256 post.

Nathan Latka

19:50Two fifty six post post.

Ross Buhrdorf

19:52>> 200 pre.

Nathan Latka

19:54Jeez. It's just it's incredibly the amount of wealth creation happening. I mean, two fifty to 1.7. I mean, this is incredible. Kudos. You know, it's great. It's great for you. It's great for employees. Everyone owns equity. It's wonderful.

20:05And series a, 15 on what?

Ross Buhrdorf

20:12>> I can't remember.

Nathan Latka

20:14Okay. Under a 100? Under a 100,000,000?

Ross Buhrdorf

20:19>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. That that oh, wait. No. Yeah. I can't remember. I'd have to go back and look.

Vision: Shopify for the Service Industry

Nathan Latka

20:25You're good.

Ross Buhrdorf

20:26>> And that's all news, man. I gotta keep, you know, my brain can only hold so much. I'm focused on the future here.

Nathan Latka

20:31No, I love it. I mean, the reason I do that and try and get the historical stuff is because like, again, the way to sort of reverse engineer Ross is like understand and try and get in your brain back those days. So thanks for sharing all that. I appreciate it. Let's just build a Ross map. Yeah. Let's wrap up here with this.

Ross Buhrdorf

20:44>> And we haven't seen anything yet. I do, I mean, you know, it was a competitive round, but I think every, I think investors got a hell of a deal. We are creating a new category here. This is an unserved market. We are the Shopify for the service industry. And the service industry is 80 plus percent of the global economy. This is big, this is huge and that's what folks invested in and that's what we're here to

21:14>> provide to these folks. And every day you turn around, there's a new article about people resigning the great resignation. Everyone's leaving, you know, their corporate jobs to turn their side hustle. I mean, your stuff's gotta be taken off too, right? More and more people are turning to entrepreneurship.

Nathan Latka

21:32I think everyone's gonna be a founder in ten years.

Ross Buhrdorf

21:34>> Good. I'm all for that. I'm all Me for too.

Nathan Latka

21:38When are you gonna you see cash flows? When are you gonna launch a $300, $400, $500,000,000 balance sheet lending business to help these folks with cash flow?

Ross Buhrdorf

21:46>> Sooner than you think.

Nathan Latka

21:48In progress?

Ross Buhrdorf

21:49>> Yeah, absolutely.

Famous Five: Books, Tools, and Life Lessons

Nathan Latka

21:51All right, fair enough. That's a good one. Ross, let's wrap up with the famous five. Number one, favorite book.

Ross Buhrdorf

21:56>> Oh my God, you asked me this last time.

Nathan Latka

21:58You said, remember what you said?

Ross Buhrdorf

22:00>> I can't remember what I said. You said Steve Jobs. You know, right now I think my favorite book is Scale out of the Santa Fe Institute.

Nathan Latka

22:10Oh, interesting, I'll check that out. Number two, is there a founder you're following or studying?

Ross Buhrdorf

22:16>> You know, I think,

22:23>> God, there's so many. Mean, I

Nathan Latka

22:25Like one in Austin. Someone in Austin. Yeah. Well,

Ross Buhrdorf

22:32>> I mean, it would be, I think it'd be Brian Sharples, you know, he, you know, I'm not, he's, you know, now he's taken boards, but, you know, I call up Brian every day and I just say, listen, all I'm focused on is having a company more valuable than HomeAway and Why the

Nathan Latka

22:48remorse there?

Ross Buhrdorf

22:51>> There's no remorse. It's no remorse. It's it's fun to be competitive, isn't it?

Nathan Latka

22:57I mean own true or false right now, you own more equity in this than you do at the same stage at HomeAway.

Ross Buhrdorf

23:03>> Oh my God, yes.

Nathan Latka

23:04Yeah. Interesting. That's good. Like competitiveness. Being consistent. You're two for two. The answers match so far. Number three, favorite online tool for building ZenBusiness.

Ross Buhrdorf

23:13>> Oh, you know what? I'm not gonna answer this question and I'll tell you why. Because there are so many fantastic tools out there right now. I mean, is,

23:27>> you know, if you get, you know, you got your degree in computer science or you had any interest in technology or design, this is, I feel like this is the,

23:43>> the top of the mountain. You can do anything now with SaaS solutions and they are so powerful. We used to build all of this stuff in my past and now you can buy everything. So we buy everything from security tools to, I mean, we're all on Google Cloud, it's just fantastic, but all the other tools you can use are fantastic. I would have to say though, I think I did say it last time is, you know,

24:12>> Slack. We have no less than, you know, 200,000,000 Slack channels at our company.

Nathan Latka

24:21You're different. You said Sisense last time.

Ross Buhrdorf

24:24>> Well, I love Sisense too, but that's just one of many. I mean, it's so amazing.

Nathan Latka

24:29I don't wanna ask you how

24:30much you spend as a company on software annually. It's gotta be, gosh,

24:365 to 7,000,000, maybe 4 to 6,000,000. Yes. Something like Anyway.

Ross Buhrdorf

24:42>> We're heavy spenders, we're heavy believers in this. I mean, am fanatical about, you know, we use Salesforce, we pay them probably the most, but it's a fantastic tool. And now that we're a FinTech, we have a joke. It's like the security world is creating more and more software that we have to buy. It's like this, the more and more that it becomes a problem, there's more and more stuff you have to buy to, you know, keep

25:10>> yourself safe.

Nathan Latka

25:11Yep. And same situation, so married, three kids, you have a birthday, you're what, 58 now?

Ross Buhrdorf

25:17>> Man, I'm not 58, damn.

Nathan Latka

25:20You're still 57?

Ross Buhrdorf

25:21>> I'm 57. I'm gonna be 58 in February.

Nathan Latka

25:24Well, something is wrong because you told me last you told me in September last year that you were 57.

Ross Buhrdorf

25:30>> Maybe I I'm gonna be no. I am gonna be 58 in February.

Nathan Latka

25:35Yeah. But last September so thirteen months ago, you told me we were 57.

Ross Buhrdorf

25:41>> Oh, man.

Nathan Latka

25:41I I I mean It's okay.

Ross Buhrdorf

25:43>> That it's okay. Gonna I be 57.

Nathan Latka

25:45There you go. Your 58th birthday coming up in February. That's great.

Ross Buhrdorf

25:49>> Yep. Alright.

Nathan Latka

25:50Last question. So what do wish you knew when you were 20, Ross? Pardon? Something you wish you knew when you were 20.

Ross Buhrdorf

25:59>> Oh,

26:01>> Something, I mean, is unfair, you get to spend all your day thinking of these damn questions.

26:11>> Well, you're completely wild and you don't know, you know,

26:19>> know, how can I say, you don't know shit?

Nathan Latka

26:22That can be your official answer, I'm gonna

Ross Buhrdorf

26:24>> write that That can be my official answer. You know, I think, you know, I need to remind myself at 57 to not take everything so seriously,

26:33>> You know, I guess the thing I wish I knew at 20, which is what I tell everybody now, is there's never been anything I haven't gotten through in business, or in personal life, not challenging that. I don't want any more challenges in business or in personal life, or maybe I like challenges in business less in personal life because when you have kids, you're consumed by fear. But, you know, I always, we always seem to manage to

27:06>> get through things in business. I'm lucky, I think in business, I think you also make your own luck. I like to worry about a lot of things, but I also say, here's the saying, you know, 99% of the stuff I worry about never happens. So all this worrying must be working,

Nathan Latka

27:25which is right, which is complete shit.

Ross Buhrdorf

27:28>> Means I'm worried about, I'm worried about stuff I shouldn't be worrying about.

Nathan Latka

27:31That's funny. Guys, Ross Buhrdorf, ZenBusiness, giving power to the previously underserved business owners, mainly service providers, now serving over 220,000 of them, adding 10 to 15,000 every thirty days to the platform. Now offering a FinTech play as well as ZenBusiness growing over 3X year over year, most recently $200,000,000 raised at a $1,700,000,000 valuation. Three eighty folks here in Austin working hard to serve those underserved business owners. Ross, thanks for taking us to the top.

Ross Buhrdorf

28:00>> Hey, thanks, man.

Nathan Latka

28:03One more thing before you go. We have a brand new show every Thursday at 1PM Central. It's called Shark Tank for SaaS. We call it deal or bust. One founder comes on, three hungry buyers, they try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards, their expenses, their revenue, ARPU, CAC, LTV, you name it, they share it and the buyers try and make a deal live. It is fun to watch every Thursday 1PM

28:28Central. Additionally, remember these recorded founder interviews go live. We release them here on YouTube every day at 2PM Central. Make sure you don't miss any of that, make sure you click the subscribe button below here on YouTube, the big red button and then click the little bell notification to make sure you get notifications when we do go live. I wouldn't want you to miss breaking news in the world, whether it's an acquisition, a big fundraise, a

28:52big sale, a big profitability statement or something else. I don't want you to miss it. Additionally, if you want to take this conversation deeper and further, we have by far the largest private Slack community for B2B SaaS founders. You want to get in there. We've probably talked about your tool if you're running a company or your firm if you're investing. You can go in there and quickly search and see what people are saying. Sign up for

29:13that at nathanlatka.com slack. In the meantime, I'm hanging out with you here on YouTube. I'll be in the comments for the next thirty minutes. Feel free to let me know what you thought about this episode and if you enjoyed it, click the thumbs up. We get a lot of haters that are mad at how aggressive I am on these shows, but I do it so that we can all learn. We have to counter those people. We

29:32got to push them away. Click the thumbs up below to counter them and know that I appreciate your guys'support. Alright, I'll be in the comments. See you.