How OmniSend CEO Rytis Lauris grew to $55M revenue and 100K customers in 2024.

how are they getting customers more efficiently than their VC backed competitors and that's what I wanted him to teach and that's exactly what he's teaching today I'm not going to spoil the beans let's just give a warm Round of Applause to the CEO of omen Rus Loris Rus come on [Applause] up thanks for being here man I got it right right 5 million 5 yes and what will you finish this year out you think yes we'll see we'll see this year is a little bit more challenging but it's always the Q4 is what defines the year so still we are only entering into the season the high season for us this is a very high seasonality and very clear seasonality stage is yours Co us up thank you thank you okay so hello everyone so thanks for staying here not going for a lunch so 20 more minutes uh yeah if you can start countdown thank you thank you very much so and thanks Nathan for inviting me and I will be talking about SEO so what Adam showed how to use AI to to ride listicles I would disagree to some extent or maybe at large so I will explain you uh soon why is it so okay so yeah 50 million AR I'm co-founder and CEO what do we do we do um we do do we do marketing automation for those who sell online so basically if you online store we help you to communicate with your existing customer base by sending email SMS messages web push notifications yeah you get the customer you need to retain the customer and that's what where omniscent comes into play um yeah and one of the our marketing tactics which is very important for us and that helped us to to to grow to a certain stage is uh SEO on content yeah so this is probably kind of used to be for quite a while the second largest driver initially we truly belonged as you see we launched a company 10 years ago so in 2014 uh we started doing SEO in 201 18ish 2019 something like this so for initial few years is we really relied on App Stores like Shopify App Store becommerce uh WordPress app stores Etc then we started investing in in various other uh channels and activities to acquire our customers so content at SEO became number two now it's a little bit being outperformed by agency Partnerships so maybe next year or sometime ago I uh sometime in in the future I can talk about about why agency Partnerships and freelance Partnerships overtake uh overtake other uh go to market channels but let's get back to this so definitely like content and SEO help you drive traffic to a website Drive traffic to your blog and then convert into signups and of course into paying customers okay so in then next 20 minutes I will be talking initially about about omnison about competitive uh Market we are at then the first three years so that's that's the guaranteed thing that's what we did that's what worked for us that's what I recommend and the third part is about today this definitely AI generative AI it's disrupting SEO industry and the searching industry in general so there are will I will share some insights some learnings but of course there are there is a stage of experimenting again and not as certain as it used to be in the past okay so uh a little bit about ourselves so competition is truly tough yeah so clavio mimp they are probably the main competitors for us those who serve directly exactly the same customers as we do but at the same time we talk about SEO and the competition within the keyword space we do have players like HubSpot who is not our direct competitor we you have players like marqueta who is not our direct competitors but at the same time we compete for the same keyword email marketing is very broad space email marketing software email email Etc is a very broad space so we compete with those big guys so keyword difficulty goes as high as 97 and PPC value for click not for sign up not for paying customer but just for one single click goes up to 60 bucks yeah so okay on high seasons on low Seasons around 40 30 bucks for one single click so really really tough competition and uh yeah so definitely investing in organic is what helped us grow okay so key principles key principles uh what our team applies our content in SEO team applies initially we focus on outcomes not outputs doesn't matter how many articles you write it the only single medic that matters how much new revenue does vord bring so we we have ok across entire organization as a planning methodology so okar is usually if you're aware about okar methodology it's always about Moon chot yeah you put the the high ambition High ambition targets Etc in many cases you fail but sometimes you uh you you reach those and this is where the the Breakthrough moments actually happen and SEO is a math it's not much creativity there there is a lot of calculations there is a lot of analysis keyword analysis competition analysis is and then very very pure calculation how many articles have do you have to write how many backlinks do you have to collect how many referring sources do you get have to get in order to reach the set position on the search uh what is important here to say we always relied on internal team we never hired agency and this is that was a strategic decision we made and until today we keep doing this the team SEO team is very small even today there are only five people and at the same time we have a pool of Partners so freelance mainly freelance as are very small agencies that do write content for us and then do uh generate backlinks for us and AI is a good replacement for writing content I will touch in the third part so okay so first three years we just started doing uh investing in content SEO our brand Authority is um almost at zero so you know we have to start somewhere so if someone of you in in content SEO at the same state stage a similar stage early stage so this is the piece of advice that I will give you to you okay so initially initially took us all almost three years to get uh from 0 to 40,000 visitors to our website and blog yeah now 180 but as always it always compounds it always accelerates and initial initial stag is always the most difficult in business in Revenue in in website traffic growth Etc um so what are the few things which I learned at very beginning yeah so to be honest like being a a Founder CEO I thought okay I've heard like rumors okay you just write a good piece of content and Google bot will come read it love it and will recommend to the entire world no yes the good quality of content is mandatory you should not be any uh at any point writing shitty content good quality is mandatory but it's not enough at all so SEO is not a free play at all uh you could be a good writer but if you don't buy backlinks if you don't buy referring other domains it will not work so first thing in-house team not agencies why inhouse team because agencies they have multiple customers and they are not that deep into your industry not deep into your business you cannot actually put the truly ambitious targets Revenue targets for outside outsourced agencies if you Outsource everything yeah yes we we do Outsource agencies mainly Freelancers mainly small boutique agencies to write content and to build backlinks uh but the rest is being done the keyword search what we want to achieve the target setting is being done uh inh housee since the very beginning and this is one of the good decisions that I would that I'm really proud of that we made and that's what I would recommend for everyone who is maybe just starting and um so one tactic to increase the domain Authority domain Authority even until today in the world of AI it truly matters if your domain Authority is low uh it will take you months to get your good piece of content to be ranked top in the top Google positions if your domain Authority is high sometimes it takes you just couple of days to get ranked in top 10 position with a some keywords of course if the highest competition keywords still takes times but but it it really really becomes easier so domain Authority it's very important thing um so the single tax itic that worked for us or the main tactic by far that worked for us is really really building a big pool of referring domains and referring backlinks yes so you see now we have like almost 100,000 backlinks that are referring to omnis and.com or block omnis and.com uh at the same time 11,000 unique websites do refer to omnison including like the ones like Bloomberg CNBC CNN Etc so Forbes so really really like the best ofor domains can you get get those referral links from those best Authority domains at very beginning no you can't it just takes time yeah and you know the best thing probably that we have MailChimp referring to us um like you know competitors do refer hopspot referring to us yeah so competitors uh di competitors so at least the keyword competitors do refer to us and I will say how it happens so backlinks really really matter and for us it's really initial three years we focused on building backlinks uh shall you backlinks yes shall you buy from the low Authority uh website please don't do that because Google recognize it um and then you can be penalized yeah so if there is something for cheap in the market usually there is a trap so tips how to build backlink so um just outreaching yeah and pro potentially you as CEOs maybe marketers Etc you keep receiving emails oh I would like to post this this this content on your blog you might find it span yourself but believe there are a lot of people who actually accept your content to their blogs to their websites if you provide a good quality of content that's okay you don't put your name on it it's it's like ghost riding but you still get the backlink and this is what you uh want to do that another thing that works really well doing various researches in our case we at least once per year we do email marketing growing up what's happening in our industry whatever you know uh conversion rates clicks opens what a benchmarks Etc uh or we just do something like the recent like super successful research about why Americans are buying on temo the Chinese Marketplace it has been quoted by Bloomberg NBC Forbes founder etc etc a lot of trusted sources so if you provide interesting content journalist will take not from first time sometimes you have to provide first piece second piece third piece so this is where you get the high quality free backlinks so you buy mid range backlinks you basically uh get good quality by providing a good quality researches so that's about kind of building authority now when you get to to the authority level and it's today you know AI generative AI chbt Gemini U changes the landscape a lot so what I'm going to share now it's small like experiments again what we experiment what works what doesn't work it's not set on Stone yet because the industry itself is evolving very very fast this year so initially what happens so more and more people actually do search not within the search engine it's on chbt you ask what is the best email marketing Solution chbt on Gemini and this is and this is just a real example yeah if if you ask what is the best email marketing platforms and for e-commerce focused platforms where are two recommended there is Cav and there is omnison C is way bigger this is a public company but at the same time main competitor so if you are not listed here in this answer you're gone yeah so people will not uh visit your website will not explore you so this is very important to get into the results and to get into the brain into artificial intelligence as we can get into the brains in our true customers or prospective customers we need to do the same to get into the brain into artificial intelligence uh at the same time and at the same time even the Google uh Google is embedding Gemini as a default search engine in Google nowadays if people are Googling this AI overviews is the top result that is being shown and here you can see you know omnisend is not already in the first position yeah we are listed there in the in the list down below a little bit but like you know bra hopspot other players are listed as a top player so we really have to overcome this one and how to do that this is this is a trick question this is a trick question and um uh you know and initially what happened initially that uh that Gemini especially and Google CH gbd was was like maybe more accurate but gini was totally inaccurate and we took they they basically browsed the websites that in like in thir sometimes you know third fifth 10th page of Google search and they they made like Gemini made made conclusions based on that website data but now the recent research shows that basically if you want to be recommended by a AI tools you have to be in the top search positions so Gemini now now puts into the a overviews the results from the from the content they get from top 10 Google search positions so still what does that mean but basically you have to do SEO play in order to be listed on Google in order for uh artificial intelligence to take those websites as a trusted source and to recommend you once people are asking what is the best email marketing solution for e-commerce so basically that's where we get back to the like more traditional um traditional uh SEO Play Still you have to be listed in various listicles um so top 10 content is the King this is your goal to get and again the keywords there are so many keywords yeah I'm referring here and I'm showing examples of the most competitive keywords but there are hundreds of other keywords and in your case that are not as competitive and you start and that's okay you know so another thing which really really truly became super important nowadays and what was not the case in the pass to collaboration between teams and look at this example if you search for like email marketing software um a lot of top 10 results they are affiliate plays now you can see here PCM this is an affiliate play email vendor selection affiliate play uh fores is listed there zapier to some extent is Affiliates yeah so what does that mean that your content and our SEO team is not actually capable to get into those listicles because they ask you to pay to be listed there yeah to pay Revenue share to pay up front etc etc and they only have like six or five recommended software in those listicles so it's even the competition it's not only the money you can buy the the position there you have to convince them so in our case what does happen like seot makes analysis look we have to be listed in all top 10 results couple of those are our competitors so we will will never be listed there or even sometimes we make an agreement with competitor look we list you number two of course you will list yourself number one but we you list Us number two we list you number two in exchange let's do that yeah and this is how you start dominating those results at the same time SEO teams go to affiliate team and say look there are four affiliate affiliate websites we need to get into those listicles and then affiliate teams team does the job to in order to get into those listicles and that's how help SEO team to to drive their results second thing what is very important you know the content which is owned by you if you want in those top 10 positions to have at least one article which is on your own website on your own blog what Google requires more and more is actually to be authentic so the the writers the offer has to be the real people and they have to be authorities online so this is just one example we have few colleagues from from whom we make like celebrities that internet algorithms would understand that this is Bernard is a real person he is you know writing about himself he's talking on webinars he's talking uh uh he's uh he's on podcasts as a guest yeah so I'm one of those faces and like other employees are other faces who write content afterwards even like you know about his personal life he's talking to his CNBC so Google Sees okay that Bernard is a truly like respectful person and he writes good piece of content afterwards so it's important so that's another thing which was not uh was as necessary in the past but actually became very important recently um and backlinks still matter backlinks still matter so if you if you want to to come High into high positions with your own content you write good piece of content uh the offer writes good piece of content the offer has to be Authority um the quality of the content is good but still still you need back links to refer yeah you can wait organically but usually have to accelerate this process in order to to to have referring links and domains into your good piece of article so that's basically and you know about the listicles what what Adam who was talking prior to that about this like AI writing listicles uh and and content so um we are skeptical uh yes we do use AI to help us to assist to right piece of like content good content but AI should never be the full full full uh or the only offer as Google just penalized so many websites that were producing a lot of good content good content sometimes even very good content but a Google was already able to recognize if it's AI full AI written content I don't know how AI maybe is catching another AI yeah uh but there were so many websites penalized and like you know we had one experimental branch of website which was a full AI written it just got down to zero no results at all like penalized to zero not so that was that is our experience and my advice would be not to rely too much on AI writing your your content um okay so for the future um adapting to AI SEO World definitely it will continue it just experiments I shared what works now but it can be disrupted you know know coming few days uh being able to set uh to attribute SEO effort will be more challenging just because if someone search on Chad gbt or Gemini and then enters uh your direct link into your browser um it's very hard to attribute that's what we see actually the the the growth of direct traffic is is it's growing there is the growth so highly likely people search on AI collaboration across teams it will the Need will increase and you know General brand awareness which to be honest H myself as a Founder was a little bit skeptical about you know General brand awareness initiatives I always left the marketed that is very very attributable that is very like tangible it's very easy to calculate everything Etc but you know uh now I believe that in the world of AI General brand awareness will become more important it's the same as a like human brain yeah if artificial brain will not see you as a market player they will never recommend you that's it yeah they have I mean they so Gemini chat gbd other solutions they have to see you as a decent market player otherwise they will just not recommend you doesn't matter if it maybe very there are some sources who you who list you yeah so in the last for 20 minutes so you know doesn't matter if a competition is tough you can do and you can even like while bootstrapping without without like overfunding just you have to be efficient you have to look at SEO or entire Marketing in my point of view as a math more than as a creativity and of course like AI is disrupting the world and and it's disrupting content at SEO but uh you can still conquer it so this is our small team so thanks them for doing a great job thanks them for helping me to prepare this presentation and thank you everyone for listening thanks [Applause]

Introduction and Omnisend Overview quick context this was recorded March 28th and 29th so a couple weeks ago at my live event SAS open.com we had a thousand software CEOs there if you missed it we hope to see at the next one September 5th and 6th in New York City SAS open.com but for now let's jump into the recording I'm co-founder and CEO of Omnisend's Journey to $50M ARR omnison omn send is marketing automation platform basically we help those who sell online to communicate with existing customer base by sending emails text messages web push notifications and you potentially have not heard about us uh but I hope I will surprise you a bit so just trying to understand how this works a little bit about ourselves so why I believe we have some knowledge and we have some experience and we can share so omnisend is 50 million AR organization we are fully bootstrapped uh We call we don't like this bootstrap term we prefer call ourselves being customer funded and Importance of Customer-Centric Growth basically to what Sam was talking about so the main focus not on the Investor's interest but the main focus on your customer interest and driving value to your customers is actually what helps us grow be quite I mean very profitable and still last year we grew by 44% over year so it's not a hyper growth anymore but in the in the days when everybody's um really struggling the growth was uh still quite good and we are proud of that and seo seo is a part important part for new Revenue driving and so now it's quite of a quite of Rise but it drives us like 10 to 15% of all new Revenue that is coming to om theend every quarter and this is an example we started doing SEO in 2019 so not so far away ago and you see that was kind of like zero traffic zero organic traffic now it's 120,000 uh organic visits every month that's what we get just purely SEO activities and you see how did we achieve this yeah so today I'm going to focus like three three things so a Breakdown of Omnisend's Market and Competition little bit of overview of the market competition and the team who actually are those people who do the SEO in inside omniscent uh I will share a lessons uh from the first three years as I mentioned like we started in 2019 so and there are two stages first initial three years and then uh other two years so what we have accomplished so basically those are three parts of my presentation and starting with uh with a general intro and general environment so where do we operate like competition is really tough and I will show you why and then what does that mean for us and I will share key principles what do we apply when we think about SEO and a little bit overview of our team um so yeah so competition so omnisend operates in really email marketing I mean we call Detailed SEO Strategies and Team Structure at Omnisend ourselves and we are marketing automation platform but uh everyone everyone every search I mean 90% of searches still starts a very basic people are looking for email marketing for SMS marketing although we we think and we are way more robust platform as our competitors but actually everybody starts searching from very basic keywords so actually our direct competitor number one is clavia uh yes they are bigger than us they are like 10 11 times bigger than us uh they are very big in Shopify ecosystem we're number two uh you know 10 times smaller but still number two in the Shopify ecosystem and they are a related public company and they invested hundreds of millions of dollars in V go to market activities including SEO Etc melim which is our competitor as well but if we compete against MailChimp in 80% of cases we win against them because we know that we drive way better value for those who sell online uh and there are other companies like HubSpot like Constant Contact that are not our direct competitors business-wise but they compete for the same keywords so in the SEO World they are still our competitors because they compete for the same keywords as we do and all of those are really well established uh Brands very known well-known Brands and they have 100 of millions in their pocket as we don't have it uh yeah now keyword difficulty to it straight some of our the most competitive keywords so this is arf's data so um you know the most competitive keywords is are as competitive as 95 yeah so this is agf's keyword difficulty score and PPC value if we would paid for some of the keywords where we are in the top three positions we would pay 60 60 bucks per click not per not per install not per paying customer but per click so actually like you can imagine how much it would cost for us to buy this traffic just paying for Google yeah and um you know so um still we managed to grow from in this competitive environment from 0 to 120,000 uh visitors organic visitors every month um key principles what helped us to be there so first thing uh our team a team as all other teams of phenomen focus on outcomes not outputs so SEO team the key metric they are Revenue Impact of SEO and Content Marketing responsible for it's the new Revenue every quarter we do use okrs on quarterly basis every every quarter they know how much revenue they should drive that stands up they know how much revenue they should drive every month every week they do report new Revenue every lovely week and track it on a daily basis so I mean you know earning backlinks publishing articles it's important but the most important metric and the primary metric is still Revenue so you know focusing on this really helps to focus our team's mindset that way and it's it's absolutely valuable and uh in our philosophy SEO is not an art if like you would compare if it's more a factory or a art studio it's more Factory so there are just a lot of repetitive processes which sometimes could be quite boring but you just have to do that you have to outreach Outreach Outreach you have to publish publish publish publish and that's it you know you have to do multiple times Outreach thousand of times sometimes but that's what really works and yeah so our SEO team um since the very beginning there was one person who is actually now our Evolution of Omnisend's SEO Approach Over the Years VP of marketing so he grew from the first SEO specialist dominis to the to the leader of entire marketing organization and um up until today okay now it's already five people but we added two more people just this month so we have a new vision and new ambition so like in com like in the past 5 years the team of SEO was free people on and that's that's the team that accomplished those results and of course we do have um a big pool of uh various Partners so we never Harden agency uh but we have a lot of pools of Freelancers and others who help us with backlinks with content writing Etc but we pay basically per results and um yeah so first three years so how did we start everything so um as I mentioned our you know traffic organic traffic was Zero our domain Authority was very low as well and of course any any piece of article we published was just not indexed by Google at all not talking about getting it to some like top position so so so we hir the first person and with the main decision we made that we have to build an in-house team uh the reason for that because I at that time I was hiring that first person and I was trying to hire agencies to do SEO Etc and everybody was like pitching those creative ideas oh we will be publishing topnotch uh articles you know the good content space and you just have to write good content and Google will do the job Google will love you Etc and I kind of did not believe in that and still good quality content it is very important but it's not enough at all so that's why I made the decision okay let's hire in-house people and focus on very practical things keywords are search backlinks buildings Etc and um yeah of course it's not enough you people can't do everything so we do have a network of copywriters we do have uh a network of Freelancers those to help us uh build acquire links Etc uh but those are people who are basically paid per result it's not kind of an agency you hire you have a like a retainer Etc Practical Examples of SEO Success and Content Updates which just you you you wrote a good quality of content yes we pay you you acquired a good quality of Link we pay you otherwise we don't so it's actually based on result things and that's what is very effective and what that's what helped us since a very beginning and it really works for us until today um yeah and back click partner so I will talk about backlinks a little bit more just now and um yeah so our Authority was like zero and to what I said I mean not not zero but like 27 so super low and to what I uh already mentioned so like hop spot Authority 90 plus melim Authority 90 plus clavio maybe at that time was 70 plus something yeah so the competition is stuff and you just it's impossible to compete against those companies and to be indexed and to be ranked Google as high as you would like to be ranked so basically we just focused on one single tactic we were not publishing too much content the content pieces were very few they were really truly good quality but we focused on link building and basically for initial three years we were building backlinks profile backlinks backlinks backlinks outreaching outreaching outreaching and me being a uh Co of a company I met like someone from the SEO team like in the kitchen uh what Cal conversation so how many backlinks did you earn today how many back Lings did you earn this week this month Etc and it's kind of like as I said it's M factory just reaching out the bdr activity building backlinks one day after another day after another day could be boring but that really pays off so and after three years of doing that and focusing on links building currently we do have almost 200,000 links that refer to omnison domain uh our main website our block uh it comes from 14.4 th000 unique websites including like PayPal HubSpot MailChimp is even quoting us uh Google in their articles is quoting us I mean those are such a high authorities you would never get like paid they would never sell back links but I will tell how did we earn this and Continuous Improvement and Updates in SEO our domain Authority currently is 88 so now we publish any article it's being indexed by Google just you know in hours or sometimes in minutes of course it doesn't guant the top position at all but it guarantees that it's already being indexed just uh right away after publishing it um yeah so and like few tactics to share okay so you're talking here about okay how to build those links yeah so first thing is really Outreach Outreach Outreach it's sales activity it's bdr activity you have to outreach thousands of potential websites initially they ignore you uh they ignore they continue ignoring you but after you know first fifth or 10th attempt they start replying and more links you get from good authority websites the easier it becomes for you to acquire new ones and another another advice would be there are a lot of like you know Freelancers or offers who are responsible or content editors who are responsible for a lot of websites which have a quite good domain Authority and you just you know you give a good quality piece of content for them and uh and they're happy because they charge their customers for for for writing down content and in exchange for that you just ask to mention your your brand name you and put like you know just a little bit of one backlink uh nothing bad so it's win for them it's win for you and then you start building like those networks to cooperate with with others yeah there are other websites who do SEO well as well you do link exchange yeah so it's it's really DB to do like oneon-one uh the same week or the same day link exchange but you build networks and then you build circles that you know I give backlink to you you give back link to someone else you give little this and we do it in circles so basically building those Networks Bing go circles is very Future SEO Strategies and Plans for Omnisend important and good quality content it is important what really worked the best for us and those what I mentioned Google HubSpot uh PayPal not talking about major media Outlets mentioned omnis andame just completely for free uh and you can see in this list so it's all the in-depth researches so okay statistics annual statistics seasonal statistics okay email marketing State Etc and we started publishing it here like year over year season over season and okay first was ignored by everyone second was ignored by everyone third of all time media Outlets start publishing it and we understood this is a reliable source and you can see that like you know vast majority of referring domains and links to to our Pages coming like Omni Channel statistics statistics statistics Etc and of course it's not enough just to publish this quality content you have to see it you have to outreach you have to say look we have this infograph we have the statistics look at it quote it it's free of charge just use it yeah you have to do this job as well uh to see this content yeah so that's where we started so basically for initial three years we were mainly focusing on publishing very few content pieces but seeding them and building a backlinks profile up to 200,000 unique backlinks that refer to our domain now um okay so we went initial three years from 0 to 40,000 this visitors and in the past 2 years we since 2022 we managed it to triple it from 40,000 to 120,000 so what did we change and what do we do now at this stage so domain Authority is already there but that's what we understand and this is Fe On which is based our current SEO activity is that uh a lot of websites on web or Internet have been published once or like Pages have been published once and never never reviewed and basically only 3% of global internet Q&A: Insights on Scaling an SEO Team and Tools Used Pages receive at least one visit per Google per month 97% of pages receive zero traffic from Google like zero so um based on that we came up with a new principle every page on our website is an SEO page there can't be like you know SEO pages and other pages every page every landing page every product page every blog post is an SEO page so our SEO team writes writes a brief for any page on omniscent and anyone who writes a content for that page has to include keywords has to read competitors because competitors do something good about about some keywords Etc and that's where you can learn and it is it is important and you know every page is based on keyword res search and it has to be included it's an SEO page second thing what we change it's really we start investing in content a lot so now we are publishing truly a lot of content pieces and we are renewing a lot of content pieces as well so um yeah so we publish more frequently and we renew renew renew uh and um yeah so what does that mean basically focus on on on on on content so um our goal is that if globally only 3% of pages receive some traffic from Google om and website our goal that 100% of pages would receive some traffic from Google so we have hundreds of pages with an omnis and website and blog but our goal is still any page should receive at least like you know few maybe visits per month but they should receive there should be no Deb Pages uh second thing is like uh you know SEO team is constantly reviewing and looking for new ideas new new keywords and maybe you did analysis like 6 months ago 3 months ago and you think that you it's already covered no people's habits are changing markets is Closing Remarks and Invitation to Next SAS Open Event constantly changing and new and new habits and new terms arise Etc and you have constantly be reviewing everything you did it until today and the third thing is really uh focusing on those and re constantly reviewing those pages who either been updated some like all time ago or those who are the best traffic drivers to omniscent website and those who uh Drive the most registrations there are top pages of cost like you know it's 8020 principle works everywhere and like you know 20% of our Pages Drive 80% of signups and those have pages on which you focus the most while not forgetting others yeah and just an example very practical so in the single month of January we published 22 new articles and we updated five old articles which is from this top fee list either old ones or the best performing articles and some of the most competitive keywords we update as much is like once per week so those that are like top top top competitive so like this is an example of like woocommerce plugins for 2022 20124 win a third position it's a very competitive keyword and you see webdate 7 days ago uh the one which is in second position updated 5 days ago so basically the top performing articles and the most competitive articles you have to review constantly like every week at least once per month and backlinks still matter you publish good quality contents you publish a lot of content but still I mean if you want to compete and now we have very high domain Authority and our pages are being indexed and our context is content is being indexed right away but if you want to get to top five top three top one position you have to Bing to build a backlinks profile so basically that still is in play and we continue doing the same backlinks that's still important and if you want to your rank high you have to continue for each piece of article good quality article is important recency is important backlinks is equally important so basically there are three pillars on which we are focusing uh yeah so what I shared with you today yeah so this is a very tough competitive market where we operate our direct competitors and our non-ir competitors which are you know competing for the same keywords uh but just like you know publishing good quality content and building your domain Authority with a back links and links and it's what really drives you the success and um yeah this is the team members uh of this small team uh led by led by Laura so really thank you for her I'm not a SEO specialist to be honest by myself so she really helped me to prepare this presentation so thanks for her and if any one of you is really Keen in building like uh you know uh doing SEO right and you would like to cooperate so as I said we have those SEO colleagues networks Etc where we help each other so just please reach out to at omnis and.com and we of course can cooperate and build each other's uh website authorities together yeah so thank you hey folks if we haven't met yet my name is Nathan Latka I launched and sold my first software company back in 2015 and went on to write a book about it which you guys made a was Street Journal bestseller purchasing over 30,000 copies thank you so much for that after the book I launched this show and went went on to create founder path.com I raised a large fund to do non-dilutive deals with B2B software Founders so far we've invested in over 400 software Founders totaling $150 million here in 2024 we're doing three to four New Deals per week so if you're looking for Capital and don't want to give up Equity go sign up at founder path.com for free to get your offer

hello everyone my guest today is reedus loras he's the co-founder and ceo of omniscient the powerful marketing automation platform that's focused on moving e-commerce marketers beyond the generic email marketing tools all right you ready to take us to the top yeah of course nathan nice to be here again you made the mistake of telling me that you're a listener to the show which means i don't have to do any work just tell me all your data right now okay sure so okay so what should they start from we have i'm agreeing i'm just kidding i'm kidding i'm kidding all right so so if you guys want nathan let's start with a famous five now there you go all right so hey so for people that missed your first interview right uh uh you know email you know marketing in general marketing tools it's very fragmented what space specifically are you targeting yeah that's good question so we are targeting towards e-commerce sites so those who sell online mainly physical goods we help those uh online retailers merchants to better do their retention marketing interest communicate with existing customers okay very good and so is this like is this like basically a better version of lifecycle emails yeah similar to that so we do combine uh lifecycle we do add uh campaigns on top and a part of emails so we have started as email service provider currently on the service email service provider on top we have text messages we do have facebook messenger messages would you have whatsapp and synchronization with facebook and google ads so it's kind of entire suite of tools for your retention marketing in one place and you have single customer profile and can choose a better channel to outreach your customers in the most effective way now you share last time you launched in 2014 at that time uh you had about 3 000 customers that was about a year ago how many customers today yeah more than 7 000. that's amazing okay good and then what are they paying once you're paying once sorry i say that again yeah paying once we talk about paying ones what do you mean paying oh oh paying customers i mean yeah we are freeman models so we have more like in active installs but yeah one year ago there were three thousand paying customers now we have more than seven thousand and are they all still paying an average of cost sixty dollars a month uh more seventy five now seventy five yeah we have not managed to include that trick which is which is really great as last year i told that we are at that time we have like starting to go up market and hunting after larger customers so we are kind of succeeding by doing that but you know acv that has increased by 25 percent which is quite a good number and we continue and it continued to grow like month on month uh but hcv so it's just great so ritus you know i'm gonna do the math 7000 customers 75 bucks a month that puts you out 520 000 a month in revenue is that right uh or are you below a bit more a bit more than that so being precise 7 200 paying customers yeah all right but is that number right last month you did about five you know 550 000 dollars yeah something like that i mean that's redus i mean that's really impressive growth just just about 11 months ago you told me you're doing about 180 dollars a month yeah that's correct that's incredible that's incredible growth how did you drive that growth uh so two factors here one is uh going up market increasing our cv and and then the and hunting uh logic customers as i have shared that like uh uh one year ago i have shared that you know those larger customers their churn uh is much lower so currently we do have negative churn on average it's just you know small like a little bit below the zero but it's like 0.8 minus negative a net churn which is which is great so you know are retaining more more paying customers it's one thing so like hunting larger and very another very important factor for us so it's a clash between shopify and the mailchimp yeah okay so you would credit most of your growth to moving you moved up market a bit but you also added over the past 11 months another like 3200 customers where are you adding so many customers from how are you finding them yeah so we have worked a lot on on brand awareness general fundability seo as well as shopify which is important platform for for us so uh i'm not sure how how much are familiar but like shopify and mailchimp they had a clash and mailchimp is not long anymore available on shopify app store you can use third-party apps to integrate those two tools but there's no native integration in place anymore so it drives a lot of traffic for us uh on top of a funnel how much per month it really varies it depends on you know shopify i have uh rankings and sometimes you're being more promoting some sometimes a bit less so there is no uh what was like give me a general range last month like how many how much traffic from shopify and how many new trials um that's a quick question i don't know this specific number currently while you're looking that up i'm going to read the listener i'll let you look up that data over here but guys when i go to when i go to omnisend on the shopify app store what you see is they've done a great job getting reviews over 3000 reviews uh 4.8 uh average out of five so i imagine you're ranked pretty high ritus yeah that's correct and especially like in email category email marketing category or marketing automation category however you call it away number one on shopify so it drives us a lot of traffic from there yeah i'm going to categories marketing and then email marketing what you're saying is mailchimp used to be uh kind of the number one uh you you are now ranked now how do you know how do you rank when you say number one you mean number of ratings or the the average the 4.8 yeah 4.8 well in position like shopify has algorithms so uh you see you see the ranking which you have not been logged in so if you log in so shopify has kind of based on relevancy what what do they recommend on the app store uh in in in which position so uh we usually kind of uh in in the top position in the listing in the recommendation list yeah this is this is interesting so you're up there with privy who we've had on the show and pagefly advance page builder reconvert post purchase up shell they're kind of like point solutions for different things a shopify owner might need yeah that's correct and if you go like on the home page like apps.shopify.com uh yeah so various kind of top email marketing solutions and and you know it it varies it depends on how you're logged in or not so understand is being quite usually uh promoting as like uh the best option for so so as a company as a company altogether with all of your channels how much traffic are you getting per month and how many new free trials yes so free trials uh currently we do get let me check that number uh yeah per month for rise like 1 000 200 to 2 000 free trials okay and how and how much traffic generates the 1200 new trials uh traffic like websites yeah to website so uh that's another yeah again it varies but it's like around like 20 20 000 visitors so okay so you have about you have about what is that a five percent conversion rate something like that yeah yeah which is yeah that's good so we kind of we we have challenges to increase the top of the final but uh but like conversion rate is really really good so we kind of managed to get uh to get uh visitors which are really willing to at least try this out and and yeah so we don't have problems with uh with conversion but our challenge is currently is really to expand the top of a funnel into outreach small so let's keep going down 20 000 visitors a month 1200 new trials of those trials how many convert to paid typically um let me check i have i have some statistics here so uh a month um what tool do you use by the way to track all this chart model yeah which is which is really good and once you're gonna ask a advent uh advanced uh would i recommend those that tool or like one specific tool so i would i would say yeah this is this is very handy still a lot of bugs in the tool but they're getting better so um which is which is really great yeah in terms of subscribers so let's say you know how many new customers were last yeah yeah you knew paying customers that was around like 400. okay again that's that's pretty good 400 on 1200 that's almost a 30 conversion rate from trial to paid so yeah your problem is how do you get more top of funnel yeah that's correct yeah interesting okay now when you look at your full funnel right what are you painfully weighted to get a new 75 a month customer yeah so our payback period is around three months so you can remember yeah that's what is that 225 right where are you spending most of that money uh so mainly it's uh seo we marketing remarketing channels we do pay commission for our partners what's the commission typically like 30 percent oh yeah up to 30 starting from 10 and going up to 30. and do you pay that in perpetuity or only for the first year it depends we have two different programs one is kind of referral program which is really generous so we pay uh three times uh three times what what the lead pays for first time so 300 percent of the first payment it's just one off thing it's mainly for referrals bloggers etc influencers and we have perpetual uh program for agencies so if someone so if a new customer referral person sends you an annual contract at 75 bucks a month right so it's about call it let's just make it easy 900 you pay them three times that per month so it's it's monthly so we pay it's 220 or so i see i see okay that makes more sense okay very good and how much so like last month how much told did you pay out to referral partners uh that was around around it was it was not much it was around uh yeah 10 000. okay that's not too bad and then how much when you look at all your retargeting and all your direct paid stuff how much was that last month yeah that's very good question i mean yeah the the expenditure was around six six seven yeah it were high six seven thousand per month okay that's still yeah this is very very little compared to your five hundred fifty thousand dollars monthly of top line so you're not doing a ton of paid stuff it's a lot of organic yeah it's a lot of organic get a lot of seo for a lot of listings like uh g2 captera getapp uh we are working with those we do have some uh some paid like retail dive of initiatives like uh good quality content we publish very good quality content and we drive they drive leads for us as well yep do you do are you on the paid portion of d2 crowd or the free one yes yes on paid paid yeah so i mean is that like four or five grand a month something like that it's small it's small uh i i'm not sure it's like 10 to 12 something something in that range yeah i guess it's kind of 12 but we managed to negotiate a little bit yep and if you're paying 12 000 a month do you know what you're paying like per trial from g2 crowd uh so we have just started uh two months ago so i don't have like proper data too yeah you've you've got other people ahead of you obviously hub spots paying a bunch active campaign market are the big ones and then already station clavio get response part sharp spring then you so this is actually considering how many total are listed here you're actually up pretty high obviously because you're paying two but i'd be curious to see how that performs over time yeah yeah so i don't have that data currently but yeah but a part of like you know last click or like first click attribution we see that like g2 or capterra obvious other listings video uh they do uh assist in the sales funnel uh maybe it's not like you can't attach your good directly to them but we see that you know someone has visited and especially when we have calls with uh with uh prospective customers like dark false democrats and we asked how did you find about us so they have mentioned they they usually mention like you know uh couple of like i have googled i have yeah i have really great view views on like g2 and then i booked a demo and read us are they sticking so look at your your churn your gross revenue turn over the past 12 months what's that at yeah so monthly it's uh it's uh 0.8 percent negative yeah yeah basically sorry what's gross so gross can't be negative what's your gross churn per month crosstalk you mean logo or revenue gross revenue turn per month yeah actually um i'm not tracking the data and that is the most important okay but what you're saying is net net wise when you add back expansion you said you're negative 0.8 yes that's correct okay so that would be negative 9.6 annually or the inverse of of net negative churn is your net revenue retention is about 109 yeah that's correct yeah okay interesting but do you have any you don't have a general sense of what your gross just your gross number is your gross churn um it's much higher because we managed to expand from a customer uh from yeah expansion is pretty good so gross gross it's around like five percent or so monthly monthly yeah okay so it's about 60 percent annual churn but what you're saying is you expand by about 70 so net revenue is 110 or it's negative point you know yeah that's correct that's correct yeah yeah that's good how are you expanding yeah larger customers very intent expense so we do charge for uh for the size of the list of your subscribers less so usually for like sustainable established businesses they grow their list and therefore they're paying us more uh it's one thing and i think we're upgrading from standard to pro plan uh so a bit 2.5 times more expensive plans so uh we you know adding more better features on pro plan and convincing them to to move pro when you were on last time you'd raise about 160 000 a little angel round have you raised any additional capital if so how much no no still 160 000 yeah still and actually from that we have paid off a lot as we had this opportunity and we're profitable so we kind of you know uh paid off vast majority of that 160. yeah so that was debt yeah that was convertible notes so you just paid it off instead of converting yeah yeah yeah and so when you say profitable i mean are you talking like 20 grand a month to the bottom line or 100 grand how profitable um let's keep this data for myself i guess what i'm really asking is are you letting money build up in the bank account or are you staying right about a break even uh no no i mean that's that's that's okay i mean we're reinvesting a lot so our goal is just to grow but but yeah i mean it's it's it's more than just you know just break even okay so i mean can i can we say more than 10 ebitda margin monthly yes we can say okay you know me i push but i won't push you harder because i like you because you listen to the show all right so more more more more more than 10 on 550 000 a month means your bank is growing by about 50 000 and cash every month potentially way more than that bad some math guys when you're good at math what about team size today how many people 51 51 okay interesting now do you do any kind of employee rev share programs um for sales people yeah okay how many sales how many quarter-carrying sales reps and yeah and a part of like only one we have only one okay how many engineers and the part of that we do have a program we kind of constantly increase our salaries and it's it's it's uh linked with a company results so if we achieve every quarter we have a goal for our growth mrr growth in general and then if we achieve that goal so the salaries are growing and each each team leader is agreeing on kind of individual programs so what what each employee expect the salary to grow in one year and then we divide in four quarters and each quarter we do uh like with inside the company publicly declare all the numbers like our armor our churn our new business again etcetera etcetera and if we achieve those goals uh salaries are constantly growing interesting now if you grow a salary that's like fixed cost are you paying this out as a bonus or our salary is actually like increasing yeah it's salary actually increasing yeah so i mean don't you get to a point where people are making like a million dollars a year uh not yet but if we're gonna be heading there so so really uh uh kind of some time ago i remember myself and my co-founder were talking that we would like to have uh ability to pay like netflix does you know paying the best salaries in the market and hiring the best talents in the market so at that time that was not possible for us but uh we're kind of heading uh towards that direction it's still gonna take some time but that's our dream to have best balance how many engineers are on the team uh so let's say half of the team is somehow related to product like engineers we have engineers product uh product uh managers designers etc and then the half is somehow related to administrative or go to market customer operations et cetera yeah now readers before we wrap up with a famous five i mean it sounds like you're doing 75 customers there's sorry 75 bucks a month 7200 customers 540 a month or about 6.5 million in terms of ar run rate right now i love the fact that your boots dropped your cash flow positive i mean someone would see this as a really great asset to add to their portfolio i mean if someone came and offered you something like you know 50 million bucks to buy the company in 9 or 10x valuation uh would you be able to resist selling at that price yes we did resist okay a few months ago what was the actual offer and was it verbal or an actual term sheet uh i mean i kind of disclosed all the data but yeah so valuation was something like you know the multiple was similar to what you have mentioned was it was it all cash or more like a stock deal uh mix okay it was a mix okay interesting and was it from uh was it from a strategic or a private equity firm that's strategic okay good yeah actually currently we have we have uh like for free free offers in a row we had free offers in a row so uh like private equities they didn't come with a bad good offer let's say and strategic uh was was with the best offer but we stepped down it does so we strongly believe that you know it's just the beginning of our agree journey if that 50 million ish offer had been all cash instead of a combination of cash and stock would you have been more likely to take i mean look because the upside here is let's say you get with a company that's much larger than you and you can grow amnesia like much faster you could still essentially have upside for you and the team inside of a bigger company just a question of strategically is that something you want to do or not no no i mean we see a lot of opportunities in the changing market as we believe that marketing automation is really going into into verticals and e-commerce is growing by itself and like mailchimp has moved from e-commerce vertical to like all-in-one tool for smb so we don't have that we don't have that huge push that we used to have from like the market leader which is mailchimp it's one thing so another thing we kind of have started uh feeling that it's really taking off like our brand awareness has increased and etc etc so we kind of still feel that it's just the beginning of um what if it sounded what if that deal sounded something like this it was shopify making the offer and they said read us listen we've decided we want to get into the email game we're buying a company in the email space we'd love for it to be you but you've got to accept 50 million in cash otherwise we're gonna go buy one your competitors and we're going to remove you from our app store uh i hope it would never happen you'd sell you'd sell to shopify if that was the term i mean uh you know it's like in a mafia deal yeah i will take my money take my bullets so in that case i would probably take your money instead of a wallet of course but i like that that's a good analogy all right let's wrap up with the famous five number one what's your favorite business book uh hard thing about the hard things the same as one year ago number two is their ceo you're following or studying um yeah a lot of them currently know one specific number three what's your favorite online tool for building your company besides your own uh char mogul is good and g suite is great number four how many hours you sleep to get every night ah six to seven and what's your situation married single kids married to one kid three years old boy i love that all right and how old are you 36 36 last question what do you wish your 20 year old self knew uh build a sass product guys omniscient freaking love this 7 200 customers paying 75 bucks a month doing 550 000 a month in revenue up from 180 000 just a year ago basically bootstrapped which i love so doing about 6.5 million bucks in ar really in the smb space relying on shopify as a partner launching now in g2 crowd and other markets to try and add additional customers per month currently adding about 1200 new trials per month 400 new paying customers as they look to scale payback period about three months again healthy economics they do have high churn 60 annually but they more than make up for that with expansion of 70 so 110 net revenue retention on their entire cohort 51 folks on the team as they look to continue to scale reedus thanks for taking us to the top thanks nathan see you in one year