How Typeform CEO David Okuniev grew to $80M revenue in 2024.

This $100m ARR Company Is Making a Major Change to their Q3 2024 Marketing Strategy - YouTube

https

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yDRiN3U3BQ

Transcript

(00:00) quick context this was recorded March 28th and 29th so a couple weeks ago at my live event SAS open.com we had a thousand software CEOs there if you missed it we hope to see at the next one September 5th and 6th in New York City SAS open.com but for now let's jump into the recording that we accelerated growth on that first brick we added another almost 60 million can we aspire to have paybacks within the year 6 8 12 months hey folks if we haven't met yet my name is Nathan ladka I launched and sold my first software company back in 2015 and (00:41) went on to write a book about it which you guys made a Wall Street Journal bestseller purchasing over 30,000 copies thank you so much for that after the book I launched this show and went went on to create founder path.com I raised a large fund to do non-dilutive deals with B2B software founders so far we've invested in over 400 software Founders totaling $150 million here in 2024 we're doing three to four New Deals per week so if you're looking for Capital and don't want to give up Equity go sign up at founder path.com for free to get your (01:16) offer all right let's jump into the interview hello everyone uh good afternoon and thank you for being here I'm fortunate in my position I have the opportunity to talk to uh many leaders um other cosos other Founders other departmental leaders and the question that is in everybody's Minds nowadays especially nowadays is how can I help my company grow more efficiently so in the next 20 minutes I wanted to share with you our uh past how we got to where we are um to um let's say there's two chapters to this up to (01:59) 125 ,000 customers globally and more importantly I also want to talk to you about how we are focusing and and thinking about um growth and efficient growth in this third chapter of the company that started in 2023 and in that sense that is through what we call one funnel I would like to also explain you the five specific steps that we've been taking since 2023 to implement that one funnel hope hopefully with the idea that um after this you will have you will take away some new insights and especially some actionable (02:40) steps that um might help you also um grow your companies more efficiently in 2024 and Beyond who knows type form okay that's good that's good thank you thank you for being users and customers of type form for those who do not know type form um the company was founded in 2012 with the objective of helping companies ask important questions to their most valued audiences so think of a marketer that wants to know the name the surname the email the contact details of somebody think of the product uh manager that wants to ask (03:25) important questions about the new feature or the new product that is available but needs to improve these things are done through mainly surveys and quizzes and um um forms uh via text via video via voice that people inet in their web pages in their emails and all of that was there but the thing that set type form apart was excellent responding experience we realized that if the respondent was having a new Fresh and great experience responding those questions our customer would benefit from more information better information (04:12) higher completion rates and so on it's also a Moment of Truth where that company and each of those respondents get in touch sometimes for the first time so it's a moment where that company can stand out right and can feel different can start connecting via brand Etc the other pillar is our focus on making sure that we give our customer superpowers specifically the first two of these were the engineering and the designer superpower so without any coding or without any design knowledge everybody can easily create (04:55) amazing online interactions so that's type form and one of the key takeaways here in our growth story is how the product was different was better and the product itself helped grow a lot David our cofounder shared with Nathan Thea podcast some Revenue metrics here are for context but what I want to to talk about is these first two chapters that then will lead into the third chapter the first two chapters is chapter one from inception in 2012 to 2018 in this chapter the company achieved let's say the first level the (05:44) first step the first brick which is more or less around this 20 million it took 6 years and you can see that at the beginning the slope of the curve is flatter because it is never easy to start a company and to be successful so kudos to all of you who are in these early stages at some point because the product was so good and purely because of the product the growth started accelerating right and you can see that in 200 um 16 17 but eventually in 2018 the growth has slowed down to that 31% so that was the first moment in our (06:26) time when we thought okay what got us here will not take us there we have to rethink this and that's what we did right so enter chapter 2 because chapter one had been purely product Le growth we thought what are we going to add in this chapter two and what we thought was we have to accelerate with goto market and in the next four years so 2019 to 2022 you can see that we accelerated growth and on that first brick first 20 million we added another three bricks or almost 60 million so let's talk about that a little bit more in (07:11) detail okay we need to accelerate growth we need a second engine that first plane was a small plane with one engine the product right now this plane becomes bigger it already has 45,000 customers but it needs another engine go to market is the engine what we do is we go and take a look at our customer base we realize one thing every customer creates forms these forms are shared there's 370 submissions on average per month right so 370 people per month per customer are exposed to the product right also customers are happy because (07:58) the product is a good product product they talk about the product so there's a viral growth there's an organic growth and their realization is customers bring customers so as a company we need one goal right one Northstar total number of customers so that's the one goal that we set ourselves for to let's say starting in 2019 now the goal needs a strategy how are we going to achieve that goal we I said already go to market but what kind of options are there for us so in terms of our strategy there are four different (08:37) criterias that we used to assess those options the first one if if it can be something simple better than complex back in the day a lot of people talked about growth Loops right so you had to invest in many different areas and one thing one flywheel would Mo move a second flywheel it was too complex for me the second thing is it has to be scalable I mean we already have 45,000 customers we should have we should aspire to something that will bring tens of thousands not hundreds or thousands the third thing for me (09:16) was we haven't done a lot of goto Market in any sizable way so we have to learn so there needs to be quick feedback loops right so we have to know as soon as possible whether something is working or it's not working and the fourth um criteria there was hopefully it's not only positive Roi but it's fast Roi so can we aspire to have paybacks within the year 68 or maybe 12 months so that's those were the decisions one goal number of customers strategy with clear criterias and then then we found out one tactic the one (10:03) tactic was paid marketing Google search hats this is mostly what we did and because we focused we became very very good so our teams could learn very fast how to do that how to improve it how to optimize it over time how to do automatic beaing how to and we also because we were focused on that we also created very good Partnerships very good relationships with the partners that helped us achieve those results so in these four years we added these three additional bricks we added 880,000 plus customers and we added more than 300 (10:43) submissions 300 million submissions but you might have uh recalled previous slide when the last year 22 we only grew 22% and that was below our average so second moment of recognition what got us here will not take us there again we went back to our customers and this is um early 2023 and we say okay we don't have 45,000 now we have 125,000 and taking a look at them we saw that they were very very different right so in company size where they are from how they use the product what for how many how much value they derive from (11:31) this the average of submissions per customer per month decreased to around 330 but we could see that that average that applies to all customers there were some customers that got 125 or less per month and then within um those all customers we had a Target group that got almost a thousand something in the north of 900 and within that Target group there's other subs segments specifically Meat Market companies that are actually using us for big at a bigger scale they were buying the Enterprise skus and they were getting 15 to 22,000 submissions (12:13) per month so not all customers are the same some get more value from using type form and we should focus on these customers again we needed to shift from one go all being total number of customers to something else that would support a much more successful strategy what we did was to shift to total number of submissions so now we want to increase and we want to reach 1 billion 2 billion 3 billion submissions as fast and as soon as possible and that allows us to think about those customers that derive the most value in the end the (12:53) submission is a proxy for Value right because when you ask questions the value is from the answers so the more answers from more people the more value you get another thing that happened is that we were decreasing our growth rate we were focused on Google search ads so what we did was the natural thing let's do more things right so let's add more channels and sources let's kick off a um initially small sales team let's do actions after support right let's start maybe conversations with potential resellers and Tech (13:35) Partners all of those were different thems with different budgets with different customer interactions different data and different processes right and different tools so there was a huge amount of fragmentation that we understood was inefficient for instance if a lead is discarded by the AE or the SDR because it's no longer sufficiently qualified that lead might be lost that lead might not go to the marketing team because these are two different teams right second they are looking at their job obviously they want to optimize for (14:18) their maximum and that's a local maximum that's not the type form or the customer maximum so this is when we thought okay instead of having so many different themes and processes and in the end customer funnels why don't we think about one funnel it's one company it's one goal it's one funnel so one funnel the five steps to this it's taken quite some time I mean in the end when I look back it's most of last year right the first step it's a simple step some of these steps are simple that doesn't make them easy but the first (15:04) step is about going from fragmented teams and budgets to one team one budget from optimizing those local maximums to optimizing for the global maximum what we did was hire a revenue leader and we brought in all of the goto Market Revenue related department so now marketing and sales and channel sales and customer care and customer success and even pricing and packaging are reporting to that one person and there is a repops function that takes a look holistically at all of these functions and data sets and Def determines what is (15:52) best right for the company not for each one of these departments so unifying going from fragmented to a unified team the Second Step here is about now that you have one team now that you you can start thinking about what are these data uh or interaction points with my customer what information do I get where do I get that information and go from fragmented data sets from let's say that reside in different tools so there's different fragmented tool sets and also fragmented processes to a unified customer-driven Tech (16:36) stack we as typ form believe and this is what we promote that every company has to be very close to their customers or to those valued audiences right you have to talk to them so we always start with this zero party data we believe that data is very important because it's an opportunity to engage the people it's an opportunity to ask and get their intention and the information Straight From the Source so that zero party data for us is very important it it can start in a contact us form it can be because a survey or um let's say a form um (17:17) triggered in your web page it can also be because it's something that um opens up inside the app or inside the software tool that is important but it's not enough your companies have a lot of other data that you can use data about for instance what ad this person saw what landing page this person comes from right all of that let's say marketing activity type type of data you also have a lot of product type of data did the did the person sign up did the person start creating a form for instance in our case right or all of that data is (18:00) the first party data the data you collect from the customer is zero party data this data is the first party data and then you can also buy third party data who is that person what company does that person work for in what title or in what position in what capacity right all of that data is contextual so you not only have the responses but you now know the respondent this is very important because think of about product feedback you might get product feedback but you might want to understand if that product feedback is provided by somebody who is (18:38) an expert user in your product or it's a a basic user a novice user of your product so you have to understand the responses but also in the context of who is responding with all of that now you can start personalizing you can start setting every individual every different segment in the right path step three is about understanding the customer but the customers that we like so in the past we used to have oh this is not my customer because I'm in sales this is too small for me oh this is not my customer because I am in marketing (19:27) and I I don't I mean I I do selfs serve right so going from those fragmented views of who our customer is to one type of uh let's say to one unified view of different segments right and the other thing that we learn is that while you have to start somewhere and generally is by doing an adoc Consulting type of analysis that says this is your target Persona this is your ICP this is your buyer Persona that thing is a static picture that cannot remain static right so as you collect information and you bring these fragmented sources into one (20:06) unified data set you also go into what is static and a priori to Dynamic ever evolving and based on feedback loops what is really working the fourth step is about now you can think of different Journeys for different segments so for instance one segment is people who are inbound in our contact us form another journey is people that marketing could try to grab their attention bring them as mqls and then they need a separate type of action in one case is mostly hand raisers it's inbound in another case we are going outbound with a (20:52) combination of marketing and sales right it's very important to prioritize and here again I would go back back to where do you have the biggest numbers where can you achieve the biggest numbers what is most probable that it's going to have an impact for you in the shorter term generally contact T shows High intent and that has um let's say a more probability of success finally measurement right so all of these funnels can have their kpis and you have to measure what is happening how many people come into contact us how (21:30) many people are um taking the call and so on by doing this in a very personalized Way by bringing all this data knowing your customer and different customer segments the final step or the final thing that I want to share with you is it seems to work it took us a year to get here but in the last nine weeks in terms of the highest valued customers which is the end Enterprise skus we've been seeing record levels of new revenue generated we have increased a lot the opportunities with the additional targeting we have increased (22:11) the lead quality because of this enrichment so wasting a lot less time of your AES and sdrs and we have also personalized those interactions to make sure that more and more of those people actually respond to the petitions to a meeting with let's say Sur surp passed in the end Revenue numbers so that was that for me I think I almost made it in 20 minutes it was 21 minutes and I hope it was useful thank you very much [Applause]

$100M Founder reveals how to build fast, launch new saas products with R&D team of just 2 - YouTube

https

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh9_THubhWM

Transcript

(00:00) hey folks my guest today is david okanyev if you listen to the show you know we've had type 41 many times last time david and i spoke he was launching typeform's official second product video asked he's now onto something more exciting we're going to talk about it today david are you ready to take us to the top yep all right so you're just like you just like going from zero to one right you're like once it breaks a million revenue you get bored you move on to the next product well a bit further than that but yeah i (00:23) like the early stage of of product building and being a small team uh it's where the juice is so pick up where we left off with video asking we'll dive into the new product so when you came on last you were just launching the paywall i think you broke 1.2 million maybe an aor but what's the status of that today how's it going well the the products around 3 million in in arr and so i stepped away from it around uh six months ago because i'm uh basically i run a very small r d team and we sped up new products and videos was one of (00:54) those new products and then we built up the team around that and then i handed that over to the product team in type form and now i'm working on a new product with just me and another developer and yeah we're actually about to release it well start to beta release it with a few people so um yeah exciting this is this is okay there's a bunch of stuff to unpack here so so i guess first off you left video ask when it broke three million in revenue didn't anything changed like something yeah and so what did you i (01:25) mean how did you know it was ready to sort of pass off and that it wouldn't just crash and burn if you stopped focusing on well it was more of a case that you know i there was another idea coming up and i wanted to explore the audio and meeting space the voice let's say async audio and meeting space and it's kind of quite a hot space now so i wanted to jump into that and so i think it was time to move on yeah you're seeing sort of slack ad in the bottom left hey use use audio to send messages or do a do a walkie-talkie (01:56) style sort of thing this is this yeah there's a bunch of products on the market doing async audio and also meeting insights we're trying to combine the two like acing conversations for less so that you have less meetings and then using ai to enhance actual meetings and then actually even combining the two imagine starting a conversation async by a voice then jumping into a meeting and then doing the follow-ups with uh with with voice as well in an async well async essentially so what's the name of the product it's called relayed (02:30) or relayed however you want to spell it sorry pronounce it r e l a y e d dot ai and uh and yeah the promises is fewer better meetings essentially and we're just about to start letting people into the beta so just head off to the website and and register and we'll let you in soon how many how what's on the how many on the beta list right now uh well we we re i just the only thing we've done so far is i did a linkedin post like last month there so hopefully now we'll we'll get a few more people in and typhoon will promote it as well so we'll (03:09) start pushing it but it's been it's been pretty much under wraps up till now so i think what's interesting here for anyone listening is right you guys are not i mean this is not a small company right i mean you guys i believe you i mean you did 135 million series c at a 935 million valuation right yeah that was pre-money or post post money evaluation okay post so flirting with sort of unicornish status and last time he came on the show i mean you said ar was right around 48 million in aor ice what you guys are like 70 now (03:36) right a bit bit more than that a bit more so like the fact that you've sort of and you were one of the original founders right yeah yeah we're two co-founders oh what's going on there youtube good to see you guys now imagine this you love watching these interviews with sas founders but imagine if we took all of the valuation data out from over 2807 interviews i've done manually saves you a lot of time well we've done this we've built it into the beautiful interface inside of founder path check this out i'll show you how you can access this in (04:08) a second but you log in you connect your stripe account you see your valuation real time you can see what it changed over the past 88 days and even set goals for valuation this year now the secret evaluation is there's many different ways to value a sas business so the reason you're going to see three or four different valuations inside of your frowner path dashboard this is all free by the way is because depending on who's doing the buying of your sas company you're gonna get a different valuation a vc is gonna pay a different valuation (04:38) private equity firm is different if you're gonna do a minority sale that's different and if you sell the whole business that's a different valuation you can see all those when i hover over here right so the teal is what a vc would pay yellow is what private equity and red is if you sold the whole thing outright now what's cool about this is this is not built off random data again you guys hear these interviews on youtube all these datas are built from real-time valuation data points founders share with us on the show so traction 1.2 (05:07) million seed round 3.7 raised they sold 22 to their business go in here and filter by the event maybe you only want to see companies that have sold the whole business well here are a bunch that have been acquired the valuation and the multiple maybe you're going out right now and you're raising your seed round well go in here and look at all this recent seed deals that went down what they raised what valuation they raised at and what percent that they sold there's never been a larger data set of sas valuations and what you can (05:38) get now inside of founder path and we're thrilled to bring it to you all right we're going to go back to the youtube video here in a second but if you want to check this tool out if you want to jump in and sign up you can check it out for free to get your valuation at this link this link founderpath. (05:54) com forward slash products forward slash evaluations or if you go to founderprep.com and hover over products click on get your evaluation here and go ahead and sign up to give it a whirl again all that valuation data live right inside the platform i hope to see you there all right let's jump back into the interview so the fact that you've been able to sort of create this little niche instead of a much larger company where you are able to stay very nimble and flexible and and basically be the r d team i think is really interesting to learn (06:21) about so what is the team today right so like the r d team you're leading what name name the roles of the people on that team it's just two people really just you and engineering so i act as product manager designer and and now i'm doing front-end development as well and then i work with a guy called neil uh who's just a fantastic like product person super rounded back end front end just also you know great product ideas and we just we make a duo basically in the company and and yeah we're splitting up these new products i mean just just to go back (06:58) to why this is happening i think we're kind of repeating what what what we did in the beginning with type 4 we were just you know product designers trying to solve a problem and then we had to become managers and you know ceos i was co-ceo with my co-founder and eventually that you know that that had its uh its date on it and we we we grew tired of that and we wanted to get back to product my co-founder eventually left the company but i carried on with the premise of being able to spin up new products and explore innovation within (07:37) the vision of typeform and that's basically what i'm doing so i did typeform then i did video ask and now i'm doing relayed it's very interesting so how do you let's say you launch the paywall here in a couple weeks you know it starts to go off you need more resources how do you get more resources you know engineers whatever on the on this product outside of the main company well we're not going to pay well in two weeks but if we if we were and we needed to scale up the team i with video ask we didn't hire too much (08:06) uh internally we just we just gradually put people in the team um honestly like i'm a big believer you don't need that many people to launch a product and actually sometimes the more the more people you add to it the sometimes the slower you go so you know we'll do a beta now it's just the two of us we'll probably add another engineer just to give us a little bit more grunt and then we'll need to build the paywall and all that stuff maybe add an extra engine in and then beyond that we've got to see how it goes but i do want to keep (08:37) things nimble because i think you can move really fast if you have the right people and what's driving this sort of r d road map is it really wherever your whatever you're curious about or do you have some systematic way to capture feedback from your user base and that's what's driving nothing systematic just the same way that typeform was built and video asked was built we just wanted to make more human interactions around data collection so that's type form and and video ask relay goes a bit of a tangent to that (09:06) because it's not purely data collection it's more about messaging and conversation but but typeform is all about helping businesses have better relationships internally externally so we think of a purely conversation conversate conversational talk would be really useful um plus you know we have our day-to-day lives in at work is a lot of conversations and sometimes they can be really efficient they can take a lot of time so we're trying to make it as as as helpful as possible uh to try and help save people time so they can do (09:42) more of their best work and if relayed takes off and and works out perfectly what does the world look like in two to three years in terms of well if everyone's using relay right let's say your vision of what it should be works and gets adopted what does the world look like obviously that would be great i mean that means that people are not jumping into meetings immediately whenever they have something they want to say they can actually resolve a lot of things very quickly just by hearing each other's voices and then also because part of the (10:13) product is is very much about capturing meetings from zoom analyzing them splitting them into chapters uh getting insights so we really want to help people that might miss a meeting to catch up very quickly or to share meetings with other people so they can get get the insight and and and go through really quickly i mean i don't know how many times you've been shared a zoom recording of of a meeting and you you can't sit there watching the whole zoom recording you want to just be able to just get the nuggets out and (10:43) really quickly you know try to zoom in on certain sections so what we've built is basically an inbox for all those kind of for that kind of communications to ingest your zoom meetings later or be other types of meetings as well but right now we're focusing on zoom also the inbox will will be able to handle the async conversations with just audio messages as well so it's yeah it's something to try it's something quite new so so it's quite exciting to be able to put something a bit away from pure data collection and (11:15) forms and david i mean you're selling this people are getting excited listening maybe a question they're thinking is wait why is david buildings inside a type form why not spin it out as its own thing uh why is that all right i'm loyal i don't know uh look one good thing about being able to do it inside inside the company is that there's not the same pressures that founders have when they start a new product in terms of being able to get it funded and you know running out of funding etc so it's quite a comfortable (11:44) situation for me and i'm free to really explore without without too much pressure obviously like you know i'm trying to deliver products and they they might not all work but there is a space to be able to experiment and and see what sticks yep and how many customers across the whole company say i think last time it came on you guys were breaking a hundred thousand uh i had to have the latest numbers on top of me uh you know must be 130 40 i'm not sure that the latest numbers 130 that's great and then um you're very proud last time i came on (12:19) still profitable it's gonna be hard to say profit when you raise 135 million oh actually we've actually started investing a lot more in growing the team we're not we're we're nearing 500 people so we are you know we flirted with being profitable and then we've reinvested now so you know just trying to get onto a new growth curve you know next stage of type form trying to bring in you know more enterprise features but as well trying to make type 4 more relevant in in people's processes right not just being a form (12:48) but being like you know really embedded inside people's day-to-day businesses yeah we're a customer we feed all our typeform data directly into our airtable which is like our marketing database right for our team so we we are very dependent on typeform and our user flows and we love it of 135 million how much that was secondary uh i'm i i can't disclose can you give a more or less than 50 percent can even range well it was it was much less than 50 much less than 50. (13:21) and then strategically why is it i mean you've been around since 2011 so there are first employees sitting on options that with like no ability to like cash in obviously you want to release that pressure valve a little bit right what was the importance of doing something did that in the last round before we didn't actually do this on on on this round ah okay so secondary in terms of this round is more like early investors selling their stake or you founders taking some money off the table there's a combination of (13:47) both yeah yeah yeah okay but just because the series b you did back in 2017 you said yes secondary we did allow uh employees to sell if i remember up to 50 of what they what they actually had so there was quite quite a bit to take off the table it was much earlier yeah in terms of inter when you say what they had what what they bet what they had already invested right yeah what they had invested we could sell up to fifty percent yeah i think yeah quite remember but yeah and what's next step i mean uh you say you know i guess we look at this elon (14:20) news private is the new public i guess but do you want to run or help run a publicly traded sas company the next two or three years or no that's not my ambition but you know let's see let's see where typeform goes i mean you know in the next two three years we're definitely going to be looking be in that area of considering it so so let's see but who knows i mean everything's kind of trending down so not a great time to do to be thinking about an ipo or well definitely not doing one so let's see did you guys have term sheets before (14:51) sort of the downturn above a billion dollar evaluation yeah the timing was quite good i have to say for the timing was good for them or for you for for us for us you know we yeah it happened just before the downturn okay so what i was asking is you didn't have term sheets for like a billion five and raising 135 million and then they they took them back and gave you a lower valuation you timed it perfectly oh well what i'd say is that um if we were raising today would be harder to get those valuations because the (15:24) multiples have gone down now obviously yeah yeah that's great any strategic partners in the round uh as in like smaller angels who led who led the 135. which is a belgian a company i'm actually from belgium so it's quite funny that they they end up leading but we also brought in some some other us investors uh also our current investors we invested as well so yeah that's great all right so 490-ish approaching 500 on the team uh nice little r d outfit going here hoping to change the way teams work by building again data collection (16:01) interactions etc seems like really asynchronous if relay works there's only about a lot more asynchronous communication less watching zoom videos searching for key moments right it's all going to be organized data yeah i mean what we're hoping to do is that you can start a com i think i mentioned this but start a conversation prepare people for a meeting async jump into the meeting get all the insights and then if there's any follow-ups after you can just package that all into one conversation which will probably be (16:30) um so let's see and last question on this before we wrap up why not go buy a tool that already has some traction in the space and build on that um no that's just not something we've considered i think it's also because we're this is a bit of a moon shot and it was not something strategic that we said like we need to look in this area it's just something that i'm needing so you know i think we can do it our way and probably have a better result no technical debt to deal with no customer transitions none of that stuff yeah (17:03) all right david let's wrap up here with famous five number one what's the last book that you read humankind humankind number two is there a ceo you're following or studying no they're not studying anyone number number three what's your favorite online tool for building uh what we'll do relayed uh well we just use just coding really i use figment to design and uh coding in react and a bunch of other technologies and number four how many hours of sleep to eat every night at the moment not too bad like seven hours that's pretty good and what situation (17:41) married single kids i'm married got kids still three kids three kids but uh two from previous marriage yeah one is it's not my my my is not from this marriage uh my wife has another kid as well so three kiddos that's great and did you celebrate our birthday are you 40 45 now or still 44 30 um 45 yeah 45 very good last question something you wish you when you were 20 sorry something you wish you knew back when you were 20. (18:12) um something that i wish i knew when i was 20. i probably answered this the same way before because i think you asked me everything's going to be okay you're remarkably consistent figma was the same i'm done with having more kids that's for sure fair enough guys are you here to david co-founder of typeform launched in 2011 broke a million dollars in revenue back in caught 2014. (18:42) now up above 70 million bucks in ar just raised 135 bar very small portion of that was secondary at a 935 million post money evaluation but now working on a very cool new tool called relay just him and another engineer inside of type form uh they're launching the beta here shortly after david post about it on linkedin and built a pre uh sort of beta list of a couple hundred folks we'll see what happens david thanks for taking us to the top okay thanks one more thing before you go we have a brand new show every thursday at 1 pm (19:10) central it's called shark tank for sas we call it deal or bust one founder comes on three hungry buyers they try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards their expenses their revenue arpu cac ltv you name it they share it and the buyers try and make a deal live it is fun to watch every thursday 1 p. (19:31) m central additionally remember these recorded founder interviews go live we release them here on youtube every day at 2 p.m central to make sure you don't miss any of that make sure you click the subscribe button below here on youtube the big red button and then click the little bell notification to make sure you get notifications when we do go live i wouldn't want you to miss breaking news in the sas world whether it's an acquisition a big fundraise a big sale a big profitability statement or something else i don't want you to miss it (19:59) additionally if you want to take this conversation deeper and further we have by far the largest private slack community for b2b sas founders you want to get in there we've probably talked about your tool if you're running a company or your firm if you're investing you can go in there and quickly search and see what people are saying sign up for that at nathan lacka dot com forward slash slack in the meantime i'm hanging out with you here on youtube i'll be in the comments for the next 30 minutes feel free to let me know what you (20:24) thought about this episode if you enjoyed it click the thumbs up we get a lot of haters that are mad at how aggressive i am on these shows but i do it so that we can all learn we have to counter those people we gotta push them away click the thumbs up below to counter them and know that i appreciate your guys's support all right i'll be in the comments see ya

Typeform CEO David Okuniev

Breaks $48m revenue, 40% yoy growth, $800m valuation next? - YouTube

https

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUepMbqJu5c

Transcript

(00:00) hello everyone my guest today is david okanyev he is building a company you've probably heard of it called typeform inside of typeform he released a new product called video ask which we'll focus on today we'll have a lot of fun where it takes the top yeah so let's let's talk type what's tease video ask for a second when did you launch it yeah uh officially about just over a year ago but we were running it as a beta for around eight months okay so give us parent company first type form when did you guys launch your co-founder i think (00:31) when did you launch the company so typeform was launched around 10 years ago something like that in 2012. and yeah like i said videos was officially launched like uh beginning of last year and give me a bit of a sense of the early days of type form the first year i mean do you remember what were you two thinking about were you bootstrapped yeah bootstrap but actually like it's kind of like trying to repeat the same journey again with video ask but uh this time and after raising the capital so it's uh it's quite a nice sweet spot (01:05) let's come back to the capital uh question here in a second um but again let's let's uh one more question type typeform then we'll go to video ask when people are paying for typeform i assume you did something to learn about what you should build next and then video ask sort of surfaced so walk me through how you used your type form user base to uncover the need for video ask actually to be completely honest it's not something that came out of any user research just just like typhoon didn't it was just an intuition that that we (01:36) wanted to create better forms and videos were just an extension of that it's like how can you make forms more human well put humans in them so it just seemed like a logical pathway for us for us to take and at the end of 2020 before we dive deeper into the video ask product can you give me a general sense of where type form was and maybe how many customers you guys are working with we're approaching a hundred thousand customers now wow and you think we just passed actually okay that's is that that's an exclusive (02:04) there we go but we like exclusively a hundred thousand castle type now you haven't you you have raised capital but you know i usually like bootstrappers but if you raise capital you do an efficient way that's not crazy to move it can work out nicely so talk to me a bit about your funding journey how much have you guys raised uh 50 million okay would you do it again would would we do it again inside telephone would you do the exact same thing or would you try and bootstrap or do something great more well yeah i think so i think we needed (02:34) to because we really didn't have a clue what we were doing and i think our investors actually helped us learn how to run a sas business so yeah no regrets and help me understand you know there's different sort of go to go to market motions freemium you know smb et cetera what's the average customer paying you per month uh around 40 40. (02:57) and and what's your most effective way to get people addicted is like number of type forms or the number of customized fields i know we pay because we do like a bunch of your if then statements built into the type form and we wanted that extra feature yeah you know what i've done off the top of my mind uh top of the head i've been so buried in videos for the last year and a half but i've kind of like gotten away from that but you know i think it's a typical thing if i had to assume it's like the ability to use advanced features like logic redirection (03:25) uh there's also a certain amount of questions you can go on to type from on the free plan so those are big upsells to pay plans yep and then again i want to talk about uh video ask if you have a paid plan what usage looks like it's wrapping up the story i'm tight for me can i take the hundred thousand customers times that 40 average you gave me i mean did you also just pass about what four million a month in revenue uh yeah you should i guess you're close that's exciting i love it when you do this why do you do you listen to the show (03:54) uh you listen yeah not that much but it was the same thing last night like kind of enjoy it yeah well it's fun you know the show doesn't work without founders like you who are game to share these sort of data points right like otherwise you get these bits you get this business like on the spot like i don't like things that you have to prepare for so this is great just like just dive into the deeper it's all the other shows you have to be like david what was your biggest failure what was your biggest success you know it's no (04:26) fun okay so they send you a list of questions and they're like oh geez i've prepared this and sounds smart four million run right okay let's go to video ask tell us what the product does yeah so it's an async video interaction tool essentially you can build a kind of workflow journey where you can take people through a journey you ask questions via video you can collect answers via video text audio multiple choice you can collect the payment nps and and you can do like a series of these things just like a form yeah uh (05:00) and the other dimension of it is that you know with typeform it's just collecting the data and then analyzing it with videos there's a step more you can actually respond so uh you can respond by video and then you get into like in like an asynchronous video conversation so it's really just a great way to get like face-to-face with customers or anyone like like you know in a business context of course like in the most effective and quick and visceral manner yep so the reason this space is very interesting to me is there (05:30) are different mouse traps on the peripheries relative to like the spot where you're playing so for example you know yak right they sent me up and said use our tool to do like video back and forth and get ask your audience video questions for your show then you have loom which i use with my team to record like how to videos and i send them off a loom video asynchronous video and then you've got like you know vidyard and that crew that have a little tool internally that is really an enterprise motion version of loom so where do you (05:55) see yourself sort of in the space yeah i think uh obviously we're when we're in the video space like all those those that you've mentioned i think what videos is doing differently is we're going like deep into the video interaction kind of form uh based uh workflow whereby let's say loon is more about doing presentation and you might have a call to action like with videos you know we we transcribe everything we've even released a feature soon where it transcribes live in the browser and based on listening it will jump to a (06:29) different question so we're really like we're really like going deep into like video interaction without it being one of these video interactions where you just like let you know like what do you call that hot spots like the videos we're really just trying to yeah it's i would say it's kind of like the next generation type form for people that really want to get visceral well there's also a use case here where there are cpg brands that always want to collect video testimonials and this is a great way to do that that's a strong use (06:58) case for us but i think you know recruitment feedback uh you know just like embedding a video ask on your on your website just as a widget as a contact form where you can just say and we have loads of customers using this just like presenting themselves on on the website because they realize that if they put their own personal brand and actually talk to people they actually get more engagement and then people might respond by video audio or text and then you know you're suddenly in a conversation with that person because (07:27) you can reply back so it's just a really quick way of just like actually like going jumping through all the hoops so you can actually get a meeting and actually create a meaningful and personal con connection now do you have the luxury of not having to worry about revenue because you're built inside of type form which makes revenue in other words do you have a pay plan for video ads it's a double-edged edged sword because we have the luxury of not having to raise capital or worrying about like running out of funds (07:54) but you know i i i needs to be successful for us to like carry it on so i've had that pressure as as kind of like the the lead on the project what does that feel like david what does that pressure feel like what number are you trying to hit well i i i think it's been okay because i've it's we've just been on the tear like the team's great we've just been you know just like shipping features so fast and we're just pretty sure what we're doing so i don't think we've felt that pressure so much like the first year (08:23) has been pretty let's say like uh you know let's say easy to get to that first but we've done like what around 1.4 uh millionaire arr in the first year of the product and oh yeah then yeah yeah yeah oh wow like like so as i mentioned the first year was like first first year was beta and then we um we we launched it properly last year we've like been like a year a year and a bit like running it as a paid product and that's amazing so just just to repeat that back to you so 2019 was all free you launched paid in 2020 (08:57) and hit a 1.4 million dollar run rate by the end of 2020. yeah what do you think you can hit by the end of this year um look i mean video is just exploding um so and and i think we have a really unique product uh in the marketplace and we're seeing interest from all all sorts of tears uh you know even like strangely enough like we're getting a lot of interest from enterprise as well uh which like you seen this is an innovative solution so yeah i think we can 3x or more by the end of the year that's great and when (09:33) you look at the 1.4 million that video ask added to just type form as a whole parrot company i'm just using my growth i was going to say what's still aggressive well okay so it is a granite stand i was going to ask what percent of the total growth in 2020 came from video ask revenue what's the well i i just said overall in terms of like ar i mean obviously maybe calculation but you know like time form is is like in the order of like 40 something times times bigger at the moment but you know it's type form and it's been operation (10:06) for a long time and you know but how fast does typeform grow yeah and how did what should typeform grow on a percentage over the past 12 months the whole company uh around uh around six fifty percent i believe fifty percent okay guys how i mean are you happy with that yeah i mean at this stage like it's it's good i mean we've actually accelerated in last year like we had a big management change like two years ago actually i stepped down i was a ceo and the company's been performing like like really really well and i think you (10:42) know the momentum is really there then that is robert i just don't know because i only know you as robert roberts stepped down um robert stepped down like a little bit of time after we both stepped down the ceos he's still active active on in the company at the board level so you're way more active than he is in terms of operations yeah i mean i'm totally in the weeds i mean i'm just i'm product designing product managing and and even coding now so yeah totally back back to square one and loving it this is great okay this is very interesting do (11:15) you see i mean it'd be very interesting that internally to see if the video asked product can eventually overtake the type form product in terms of total weight yeah i always typically say so but yeah that's just to create that sense of like you know a competition talk to me about about churn so when someone installs video ask i assume you want to get them to send like two videos and at least 10 minutes to like drastically increase that they stick around what does like churn look like today yeah i mean it's kind of similar to (11:40) typhoon in terms of like you know people will pick it up you'll see like some users like picking up the month and churning then coming back and reactivating um i think we'll be able to tackle sharon probably better than we can in tight form because there is quite a lot of like we we have like a strong kind of usage based player plans which are based on minutes of video processing so we're typically seeing people buying more and more and more so that's like indicating more more usage plus like strong kind of like higher smb enterprise (12:15) means that like in terms of mrr churn i think we will perform we will probably outperform our main product what is it in terms of local what's it at today do you know what it's at today the what the yeah yeah yeah yeah i think uh i think it's around three percent three to four percent that's actually not that is actually not horrible for this price point no no no no i mean it's higher it's higher on time but it's just typical of this of this kind of business you see the same thing with like a monkey and all yeah it's just (12:46) that people use these types of tools like periodically do like campaigns and then they come back and so forth are you in any talks to be acquired by surveymonkey no no but you know we didn't have those conversations not i have met with the server monkey uh ceo a couple of times just casual conversation but that was way in the heart uh just just for fun but no no nothing nothing happening there i can assure you all right well look there's a relationship there so we will uh we'll see what happens now your guys's last (13:20) round of funding was win a while a while ago now yeah last series b with um general atlantic 2017 i thought great yeah yeah i guess so any i mean any plans to raise or are you guys profitable uh we've we've been profitable um we're now kind of like just just happy to just stay around that if we wanted to be be profitable more profitable we could just slow down more investment growth but yeah we have that well yeah i mean you're you're i don't know if you know this you probably do but you're in a very rare club right where (13:56) people that whether they have scale and their the ratio of funding to arr is about one to one you know most people at your scale it's like i can tell you we have we we've pretty much got the same amount in uh that we raised in capital just sitting right sitting in the bank yeah yeah just yeah what do you do with that i mean do so if you've got like 40 50 million sitting in the bank i mean what the hell do you do with that you just let it sit there no sorry we've got what we raised in the last oh 35 yeah but it's still the same same same (14:26) question don't think it doesn't generalize what the hell are you guys doing why is the cash sitting in the bank you're gonna invest it yeah yeah yeah i think yeah i think you know you gotta spend it wisely i i think we you know it's definitely like on the cards to think about like how we can like you know open up some more opportunities who knows there may be like room for for another funding round around soon i mean it's a good environment to to raise capital in and the company is performing really well so what would you do this obviously isn't (14:59) you know official but using your gut i mean what would you value the company at today what would i find in the company yeah what would you value it i would say in the next 56 months we we wish like based on yeah based on a multiple about 15 like you know 800 i would say yep i mean and if the video has thing takes off and does well i mean you could be passing well that's obviously another good reason for an investor if we were raising capital to pay ahead as well because there's obviously some new things that you know (15:34) we can prove have some traction and we can say we can repeat this model again so yeah definitely definitely yeah the future's looking right and when you raise the 35 million a couple years ago what valuation was that at much less was it i think it was around 300 or something yeah fascinating story and this is really interesting because i can tell you're like a pro you're someone that can really do anything at the company it sounds like you write code you design you talk to users you're probably talking to investors too uh it's it's (16:08) just what i really enjoy but i i just you know i'm you know i've come to learn them i'm actually a builder and stuff and the further away i get from that the less the less i feel kind of motivated or yeah i just like being close to customers and and solving problems i guess well david we love that about you let's wrap up here with the famous five number one favorite business book i don't read business books anybody any book i read favorite book uh let's see he's pulling from his bookshelf what's he going to do from anything from bill (16:44) bryson bill bryson all right number two is there a founder you're following or studying number three besides your own what's your favorite online tool for building video asking type form uh sigma and studio code to work in react number four how many hours of sleep to eat every night last night four nice very good four how you can't survive on four hours of sleep no no i don't think just last night was it was a bit of a um but uh you know generally like six seven something like that what happened last night why was it a show (17:23) uh we had a problem with lavender it's really boring with lambda functions timing out and some of our video processing pipeline got affected during the night so i was actually there just with an engineer training well i wasn't doing the engineering but just just kind of supporting and copying around solution yeah all right and what's your situation married single kids i have i'm married and uh three kids wow busy guy how old are you that's what are you sure 44. (17:54) david take us home here what's something you wish you knew when you were 20. uh everything's gonna be cool guys type form founded back in 2011 they've now scaled over a 40 million dollar run rate they launched their video ask product a new product back in 2019 in beta they did 1.4 million in terms of run rate in 2020 hoping to 3x that here in 2021 as they look to scale they did a 30 minute five million dollar round of financing back in 2017 i called a 300 million evaluation david says you know it feels like 800 million is very (18:23) doable right now at the growth rate we will see what happens but no current plans to raise healthy economics and very profitable david thanks for taking us to the top one more thing before you go we have a brand new show every thursday at 1 pm central it's called shark tank for sas we call it deal or bust one founder comes on three hungry buyers they try and do a deal live and the founder shares back end dashboards their expenses their revenue arpu cac ltv you name it they share it and the buyers try and make a deal live it is fun to watch (18:56) every thursday 1 p.m central additionally remember these recorded founder interviews go live we release them here on youtube every day at 2 p.m central to make sure you don't miss any of that make sure you click the subscribe button below here on youtube the big red button and then click the little bell notification to make sure you get notifications when we do go live i wouldn't want you to miss breaking news in the sas world whether it's an acquisition a big fundraise a big sale a big profitability statement or something (19:22) else i don't want you to miss it additionally if you want to take this conversation deeper and further we have by far the largest private slack community for b2b sas founders you want to get in there we've probably talked about your tool if you're running a company or your firm if you're investing you can go in there and quickly search and see what people are saying sign up for that at nathan laca. (19:42) com forward slash slack in the meantime i'm hanging out with you here on youtube i'll be in the comments for the next 30 minutes feel free to let me know what you thought about this episode if you enjoyed it click the thumbs up we get a lot of haters that are mad at how aggressive i am on these shows but i do it so that we can all learn we have to counter those people we got to push them away click the thumbs up below to counter them and know that i appreciate your guys's support all right i'll be in the comments see ya

How Typeform Scaled to $19M in ARR and 40k Customers - YouTube

https

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7BvjtJKt_E

Transcript

(00:01) Hello everyone, my guest today is David Okuniev who was born in Belgium and later educated in England and started his professional career as a musician. Expression through music soon turned to expression through product and brand design which led David to founding the Barcelona based design studio Fatman Collective. (00:16) From working in the same co-working space he later met his co-founder Robert and the two co-founded Typeform. Today he's joint CEO and sweats over everything vision, product and design related. David, are you ready to take us to the top? Yeah. All right, well first off Fatman Fatman Collective, you don't you don't look that fat. (00:32) Where did the name come from? Uh well the idea was to put together a a collective of designers and all together we'd make this kind of fat man. Uh but yeah, no one was fat. In fact the first designer that I had in the in the collective was like this skinny. So yeah. So look, sometimes parody like that works, right? Fatman Collective led by a really skinny guy or gal, it works. (00:55) Yeah, yeah. All right. But I wasn't that skinny. So tell me Some of the most successful uh software companies that I see today actually came out of agencies because the agents in an agency you can see all customers have the same problem and then you build software for that. Was that the pattern you followed? You mean like 37signals? Uh like so many of them. (01:15) Uh yeah, yeah. Uh I mean we we happened to be an agency and I think in an agency the thing you have is that you kind of have to deal with a lot of uh clients on a day-to-day basis and you're kind of context switching the whole time into other projects. So I guess it it drives people to think I I'd love to just be able to focus on one project and just have like customers instead of clients and I think in our case that's that that was one of the driving factors. That's right. (01:43) So tell people that are not familiar what does Typeform do and how do you generate revenue? Is it a pure play SaaS company? Yeah, it's a it's a SaaS it's a SaaS play. Uh it's freemium product. What we do is allow people to create conversational forms essentially. Um so you have your your you know your your standard web forms, they're not very interactive. (02:06) What we do is split uh the each question into kind of a conversational format uh presented in a better UI with uh you know it allows you to also like add your brand add interactive elements like video uh uh images and so forth. Yep. And when when you look at folks that are paying you again give me a general sense, what are they paying you per average per month each month? Yeah, it's the ASP is around $40 a month. Okay. (02:32) And are these that's kind of for each user or are you actually selling kind of enterprise bulk deal plans as well? Uh we do some enterprise. We're not an enterprise tool, so we don't go out there trying to land enterprise clients. Uh we we just we have some enterprises that would that want to come on to Typeform. (02:47) Our sales team is about three people, so uh it's very much self-service. That's great. And what's the total team size? We're now 190. 190 all all in Spain? No, we have an office in San Francisco as well uh building out a small team out there uh working on partnerships. Uh we have kind of a platform play which we're rolling out this this year, so we want to be close to uh the partner ecosystem. (03:11) Tell tell me more about that. What does platform play mean? Yeah, so uh we figured out that we can't cover every use case with Typeform, but we have a kind of interface which people can use uh for conversational data collection and then we want to partner up with companies that want to integrate with that. (03:28) So you know pushing our data into their platform uh or even partners that would want to build directly into the into our our creation process. Mhm. And what have you kind of with the kind of this goal in mind right of it continuing obviously to expand via the platform, what have you scaled to today in terms of total customers using you? Uh total customers around 40,000 plus we have a bunch of free customers as well. (03:50) So this is an interesting dynamic. There's very few people that have successfully kind of monetized the freemium model, right? You're I I don't know how many freemium users you have and what the percentage conversion rate is, but 40,000 ready to pay is obviously no small number. The question I have for you, how do you decide when to make people start paying? Uh are you asking like from the start like when you start off the business? I mean for My audience my I'll tell you my audience a lot of times will say Nathan uh we (04:18) have a product that's based off like some amount of usage, but we don't know when to show the paywall, right? How did you make that decision? So we took our time. Uh we launched the product 2013. Uh we spent a year uh in what we called a beta, but I think we just called it beta because we weren't we weren't charging at the time. (04:37) Uh after a year we got we rolled out the the the the payment plan. It was just one one plan called the pro plan. Um I guess it was just time to start monetizing, but we weren't we weren't really soft. Like we didn't put a lot of the features uh we didn't put a lot of the features behind the paywall. We still like kind of left a generous helping for for free users. Mhm. (05:01) But what is is so is there a usage metric? Is it after you've collected 100 entries in a given month you're shown a paywall? How do you get the We we do have that, but initially what we started with was uh just feature based. So one of the things we did for example if you wanted to like customize the thank you screen or use logic inside your form or the calculation feature, then we show we we would show the paywall there. (05:25) We also have another dimension which is we have this um pro plus plan where we sell seats as well. Yep. Yeah, well that's 60 bucks a month, right? Exactly. So you can create a shared workspace and you know collaborate with people on creating Typeforms. That's great. I mean now can I do the math? 40,000 folks times that $40 ARPU, you guys are north of 1. (05:42) 6 million a month today, right? You're good mathematician. Well no, I want to give you I want to give you cred I want to give you credit. My research team has a note here that says they found something I think on Novo Brief in 2015 that you guys had passed 8 million forms per month growing 20% month over month, half a million users and monthly revenue around 200,000 euros. (06:01) You're now much bigger than that. Yeah, we're bigger than that. I think it's half a million users that's probably the signups at the time. Um but yeah, we're we're roughly in in that neighborhood. That's great. Talk to me about uh funding decisions. So are you bootstrapped or have you raised and if you raised how much? Uh we've done few rounds. We've done four rounds. (06:18) Uh we stayed bootstrapped for a while because uh we had resources from our design agencies which we like kind of pumping into Typeform. So we managed to stay you know the first year without any any without raising. Uh in total we've done four rounds as I mentioned and we raised uh $52 so far. Yep. (06:40) So and what um I mean I know some of the obviously the folks you have involved are also people that serve the same kind of customer like obviously Squarespace, right? So how did you decide who to take funding from um and and how to build the syndicate? Um so we tried to raise capital in Spain. Uh that didn't happen early on. They told us we weren't we didn't know how to run a business. (07:00) They were completely correct. Who was they? Uh I don't want to mention any names, but some local VCs basically told us we were too green wet behind the ears to actually uh run a startup. Uh but we had a really good product and eventually uh a German VC called uh well it was a German and Polish VC. I was uh uh ACT Ventures and uh Point Nine Capital actually saw the product and thought wow, there's something here. (07:28) So they they knew we had no idea how to run a business, but they invested in any case, but they taught us a lot about you know you know about SaaS. I mean to be honest with I didn't even know what a KPI was to start off with or even MRR. So so our our early investors really helped us. Um we did another bridge round with uh with Connect Ventures and then uh Index Ventures came in for our series A and really I mean we had Index Ventures at the back of our mind. (07:57) We knew that they were you know one of two really important firms in Europe and we knew that you know getting them would kind of help us uh give give our brand more visibility and and more attention in the market. The KPI story is a funny one. I remember my first ever meeting with potential investors. (08:14) We sit down at the table and David they look at me and they go um well Nathan, where's ARPU? And I'm going we don't have anyone named ARPU on the team. And I'm like oh, average revenue per user. You're you're asking for a data set. Okay. Um And there's many ways to say ARPU as well. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's very confusing. (08:34) So talk to me real quick but uh before I dive kind of more into your story, I want to talk more about your how you kind of gamified internally AB testing with Mad Gambler and some other growth tax tactics you've used. Growth rate today, what are you at? So if you're doing kind of 1.6 today, take me back a year, what were you doing? Uh we're kind of floating around uh with we're aiming to double year on year at the moment, so we're kind of um following this unicorn path. (08:56) Yeah, that's great. So I mean is it fair to say about it June 2017 you're doing somewhere around 800k a month? Uh June to A year ago. Yeah, more or less. Yeah, that that would put you on the double track. Yeah. What um what makes I mean obviously once you get bigger and bigger but doubling becomes trickier and this price point also SM yeah SMB space churn is always always tough. (09:18) How have you managed churn? Yeah, yeah. It gets uh well it's it's it's difficult. I mean it's it's just an upward battle and you have to just work at it the whole time. I mean what what we're doing right now is trying to like increase activation to uh to to combat that. It's uh it's kind of like churn is a long-term thing and it takes a lot of time to kind of hit at that, so you can't just change that overnight. (09:41) So you have to like build more more sticky use cases, find better ways for people to stay in the funnel. So we're kind of just very very focused right now on just like activating as many people as possible. So so working kind of top of the funnel. What are you hovering around right now? In terms of churn? Yeah. Uh yeah, around the 5% mark. (10:00) Okay, that's not horrible. So, 5% gross logo churn per month. this scale, it's you know, it's it's tough. Yeah. Uh you know, if we didn't have have churn, then we wouldn't have so much pressure in terms of like adding new users every month. That's right. Yeah, five 5% 5% of 40,000 can get big. (10:19) Yeah, but but by the way, some of these users that churn, they reactivate. We have a lot of serial reactivators in Typeform cuz people come in, they do Typeform, they churn, then the next Typeform, so they come back. So, there's kind of a cyclical thing going on as well. much time do you spend like just sweating over, "Gosh, how do we make it so that these people stop canceling every other month and then reactivating?" Can't we provide some part of the product that makes them sticky in between? How much time do you spend thinking about that? (10:42) A lot of time. I think our future strategy is is is aligned to that. I think it's it's it's all about understanding what is the job to be done that people are using Typeform for and really packaging packaging that in a much more compelling way for them. At the moment, people come into Typeform and it's kind of this open playing field. I can do all sorts of stuff. (11:01) But really like packaging those ideas together into real kind of mini products, I think is is going to be key for us. So, right now today, you talk you mentioned the word activation, you know, many times already. What do you know you've got to get a new user to do in the first couple hours they sign up or log in so that they become sticky over the long term? Um well, we need to get them to create a form for starters. (11:26) And then our activation metric is is they collect five five results. Over what time period? Uh first 7 days. First 7 Okay, good. So, so five five new kind of leads or inputs in the first 7 days. our that's our activation metric. That's great. You um I don't know if this is true or not, but when you talk about conversational marketing, the reason a lot of people have trouble building product around it is you have so many variants of if people are typing entries, they could say anything. (11:51) And so, how do you make meaning of an anything response? My question to you is what does your tech team look like and how much really like hard tech is behind processing the natural language people are putting in these forms? That's not something that we're doing yet, but definitely something that we need to look at. (12:08) So, but all about making the product smarter. So, essentially right now, we just show you what people have said. That's it. And we're not doing that interpretation for you. Interesting. Okay. Um last two Go ahead. One thing one thing to just add like Typeform, we see ourselves as a system of system of engagement. Um as opposed to a system of record. (12:27) Although we do record the information, it's really about you know, people come to us because they really care about the interactions that they're having with their customers or their employees. And we really we really play well in that space. So, typically people download the data and plug it into other areas and then analyze it in other places. (12:42) So, you could run a NLP on our data set just by integrating with a different service. How many forms now are you processing per month? Uh So, there is I think it's 20 now 50 million uh unique landings a month on on on on forms. 50? But that's unique. 50 million. Yeah, 50, not 15. Yeah. (13:08) Yeah, 50 uh landing on Typeforms every month. That's great. And then obviously your your the things you focus on are how many of those 50 then go and complete one question, two questions, and full completion. Yeah, and actually that's what drives a lot of our business. There's this fiber loop going on. They land on a form, they click powered by Typeform, then they create a Typeform, distribute it to their audience, and and so forth. (13:26) You ran and documented a pretty sophisticated uh it depends where you look look at it. We have the different which pocket you look at. Some were above three to one CAC, some (14:30) were a bit underneath. Yeah. Do you assume if you have a 5% logo churn per month, that means the average customer would stick out for 20 months at 40 bucks, it's an $800 LTV. Is that the LTV you assume when you talk about your LTV to CAC ratio? Um it's roughly around that. Okay, roughly. (14:47) So, what I hear you saying then is sometimes you might might spend half that, which is higher than what you want. Sometimes it might be way below that depending on the cohort you're attracting. It depends what you're doing as well. Like with with pure branding stuff, like it's really hard to measure. But you you you invest because you know if you get your brand out there, you know, they they could be some effect. (15:04) Yep. Makes a lot of sense. Let's wrap up here with the famous five, David. Number one, what's your favorite business book? Favorite business book. One that comes to mind is that Jason Fried one. I can't remember the name. Rework? Yeah, really like that one. Good. Number two, is there a CEO you're following or studying right now? The CEO I'm following or studying, no. (15:28) Number Number three, what's your favorite online tool for building a business besides your own? Uh I'm a big fan of Mailchimp. Uh been trying Wix recently actually. I find it quite quite quite usable. How does Anthony How does Anthony feel about that? I'm sure he'll be fine. I I think Squarespace is a is a great product. (15:49) Sorry. Uh but but uh yeah, it was I I always thought really badly of them and I've been trying it recently and I I was pretty impressed. Number uh four, how many hours of sleep do you get every night? Yeah, seven. Something like that. That's good. And what's your situation? Married, single, do you have kiddos? About to get married. Oh, congrats. (16:10) That's good. No no kids? Thanks. That's exciting. I have kids. I have two kids. Two kids. Okay, very good. And how old are you, David? How old am I? Yeah. I'm 41 now. 41. All right, last question. What do you wish your 20-year-old self knew? Oh, Jesus. Know that everything's going to be okay. Guys, it will all be okay. (16:34) This is coming from a guy that that named his agency the the Fat Man Collective because he's putting a bunch of people together, right? And it's going to end up working out. What ended up happening is Oh, sorry. Yeah, Fat Man Collective. What ended up happening was he saw the same need across many things, wanted to double down instead of changing between clients every day, started building a Typeform with his co-founder uh David or sorry, Robert. (16:53) And now today, they're serving over 50 million kind of unique landing pages on a Typeform every single month. That's up from just eight a couple years ago. They've also scaled revenue uh about a year ago doing 800 grand per month in revenue, now up almost double that 1.6 across 40,000 users using them. So, healthy, lots of growth tactics, lots of good stories here. (17:12) Uh over 50 million dollars raised to help drive that growth. Healthy economics. David, thank you for taking us to the top. Pleasure.