How Timedoctor CEO Robert Rawson grew to $35M revenue and 140K customers in 2024.

quick context this was recorded March 28th and 29th so a couple weeks ago at my live event SAS open.com we had a thousand software CEOs there if you missed it we hope to see at the next one September 5th and 6th in New York City SAS open.com but for now let's jump into the recording SEO has a 202% return on ad spend paid ads has 155% return on ad spend and email has 127 bootstrap companies grow faster than their Venture back counter s past 10 million [Music] AR hey folks if we haven't met yet my name is Nathan lka I launched and sold my first software company back in 2015 and went on to write a book about it which you guys made a Wall Street Journal bestseller purchasing over 30,000 copies thank you so much for that after the book I launched this show and went went on to create founder path.com I raised a large fund to do non-dilutive deals with B2B software Founders so far we've invested in over 400 software Founders totaling $150 million here in 2024 we're doing three to four New Deals per week so if you're looking for Capital and don't want to give up Equity go sign up at founder path.com for free to get your offer all right let's jump into the interview I want to start out my talk with a question because I always like to start out my talks with questions and usually these questions are something that I talk about around a couple other founders and this question the more that I thought about it the more that I realized it was actually a lot more complicated to answer than initially when I asked it and that question is how do we build billion dooll bootstrapped SAS companies how many of you guys are bootstrapped right now just to raise of hands perfect and how many are venture-backed okay cool you guys are going to be pissed off but don't worry about it it you're going to learn something from this as well so here's some interesting statistics bootstrap SAS medium growth rate is 28.5% from 3 to 20 million ARR that's pretty good another statistic that I saw was SAS median growth rate over 10 million ARR is 24% so growth goes down obviously a little bit as you're scaling the organization however if you split out venture-backed companies bootstrapped actually grows 6.7% faster than venture-backed companies Now isn't that very counterintuitive don't you usually have a bunch of people that are at conferences like this and say no no you need to raise money because that's going to allow you to grow faster but no bootstrap companies grow faster than their venture-backed counterparts past 10 million ARR they actually grow faster than their venture-backed counterparts there is a lot more failure rate on the smaller ones but once you get past that 10 million AR Mark bootstrap actually grows faster so this was really weird for me cuz I thought to myself okay so if we want to build more billion dooll bootstrap SAS companies we have to start to think differently because to be completely honest with you the information is different the conflicts are different the economics are are different the culture is different the business is different but in my opinion it is better and that's not just my opinion that's a fact so how do we build billion dooll bootstrapped SAS companies well my answer is that bootstrapped SAS needs a different Playbook than venture-backed companies we need a different methodology in order to be able to build those types of companies and I would also add on that bootstrapped companies learning from venture-backed companies is counterproductive to their overall growth so we've seen a lot of bootstrap companies we've seen lot of venture back companies that have talked over the last two days at SAS open but what I really wanted to do was Focus specifically on the 13 counterintuitive insights that I had bootstrapping an 8 figure sess now this is the slide to say please don't leave the room I know what I'm talking about my name is leam Martin I'm the co-founder and chief Innovation officer at time doctor which is just a really great way of saying I basically just get to play around with the research and development team all day long which I've been loving by the way over the last year I'm also the co-organizer of running remote which is the largest conference on remote work I also co-wrote the same titled book Running remote which became a Wall Street Journal bestseller last year teaching you everything you need to know on building and scaling remote teams and I'm really passionate on focusing on understanding how work works and my second passion is actually working with SAS businesses we have team members in 46 different countries all over the world and they all work seamlessly because we've understood remote work at scale and when I was working on this talk about a month ago I was actually in this little coffee shop in the Fifi islands does everyone know where the Fifi islands are one person okay it's in Thailand and I just realized in this moment as I was writing out this talk if I had raised Venture money I would have never been able to do the cool and fun stuff that I currently do now me and my co-founder because we can't just go off to you know thiefy Islands for 2 months um so it's also a lot more fun so first Insight that I have is if you can't measure it you can't manage it and probably a lot of people know this quote it comes from Peter Ducker but probably a lot of you don't know that Peter Ducker actually stole this from this guy Lord Kelvin and I actually like this one more if you can't measure it you can't improve it and I stole it from this guy David SC who actually did a really great talk at websummit last year about SAS metrics if you're interested in checking that one out it is amazing but in our organization everyone has a number and if you don't have a number you can't work here that's very simple so when you start working inside of time doctor you need to be able to have some type of quantifiable trackable goal to work towards and this is our version and again I'm going to give everyone access to this at the end if you're interested in downloading all of these reports so this is our top level executive dashboard we have leading indicators and we have lagging indicators we have three different colors which is red yellow and green green means everything's doing great don't worry about it maybe we should have actually set a more aggressive goal previous quarter yellow means maybe this person is not going to actually hit their target we should probably pay attention and red means there's a 50-50 shot of this person not hitting or this department not hitting their goals or not just from looking at this dashboard where were our problems for this quarter any ideas it is pqls mqls deals pipeline uh we totally miffed uh we totally whiffed this particular quarter on our improved targets so we work on that obviously and we spend 90% of our time on the Reds we spend 10% of our time on the yellows and we spend none of the time on the greens we basically just set a more aggressive Target for next year next one camels not unicorns reduced resources eliminates optionality when you have a ton of cash it's really easy to be able to work on crazy new things and go in directions that you wouldn't necessarily be interested in pursuing in the first place you kind of solve problems with money and we see a lot of this with a lot of venture-backed companies but I actually almost wanted to make this one of my counterintuitive insights which is make eida for everyone that's here right now who has some net profit some I in their books how many have like 5% keep your hands up 10% 20% 30% whoa you're buying the drinks okay thank you very much uh so in my opinion one of the things that my my financial adviser actually sat me down about six years ago and he said Liam you have 94.5% of your net worth in a private company that you can't sell you need to start taking some risk off the table and so we did and and that's very counter to grow at all costs reinvest everything you possibly can inside of this business and in my opinion that was the that was the right move to make which was start to make some profit and it completely protected us against a lot of problems that we had uh down the line I would say 10% is good is a rule of thumb minimum 20% is where I would really put the target at and 30% is if you think that there are going to be some rough Economic Times in the next couple quarters boost yourself up to 30% Eid to protect yourself in terms of that downside next one large Tams equals bad for bootstrapped companies again this is probably something that people are not going to like very much when I say this but these three books how many of you have read crossing the chasm Blitz scaling or scaling up almost everybody right and what they teach is that and I'm just using crossing the chasm as an example you should be focusing on your early Market segment not the big mainstream market so when we started time doctor we had a probably a billion doll total addressable market now postco with everyone using remote work our industry became a lot bigger it's probably worth 20 to 30 billion at this point and so we recognized that if we wanted to start the same business today we would never do it because we just don't have the resources to be able to do it and there are lots of competitors right now that are raising 50100 $200 million to be able to compete against us but they've got to overcome the entrenched brand that we've built which is very very difficult for them and we actually were terrified around 20121 because we had like seven companies that raised over $100 million to come directly after our market and so far none of them have really penetrated the market that badly because we already had that early Market segment so focus on the market that are early I would say below 10 billion is where I would really go but if you can get it lower to a billion dollar total adjustable Market that you think is going to grow in the future that's where you should go another honorable mention here is a lot of people talk about Innovation but you should really just talk about the dollars and cents this is a great book traction has anyone read this book before couple people it's amazing um stop focing focusing about how to get from 0 to one and just focus how to do that particular thing next one remote is the best option which obviously is going to come for me but I'll give you a couple statistics to be able to reinforce that uh remote workers are 35 to 40% more productive than their office workers they have a higher engagement than on-site employees on average they save 72 minutes of their day just on commuting so if you have in office employees and your remote employees and you let your remote employees sleep for 72 more minutes per day you will have more productive employees they save between $600 and $6,000 yearly they have a 93% of working professionals believe that remote work positively impacts their mental health 51% of working professionals prefer fully remote 46 prefer hybrid 4% for some reason want to be in the office 24/7 I don't really know why that is uh and then lastly there's a 50% higher retention rate in in compared to their in office counterparts and lastly it's more fun as I said I get to go to the Fifi Islands um I get to travel around the world with my co-founder and all the other employees that work inside of the company so it's a lot more fun and one other statistic which I'll push to you guys is pre-co why commentator saw that 16% of their startups were started remotely today this cohort 82% are partially or fully remote so if you want to be able to build products for the remote Tech platforms and Future remote is definitely the direction to go if you want to learn more go to running remote that's my conference that we run end of this month actually in lisb in Portugal it is a lot of fun talk to me afterwards if you want to go next there's one to three ways to get customers that's it very very few companies if you look at their user acquisition funnels actually do more than three four five significant sources of user acquisition as you see them scale here's a a survey to be able to prove that out this is a survey of $18 hundred million plus companies this is where they've deployed all of their revenue b or basically all of their marketing channel Revenue you can see there's a lot in organic social media and then you can see the absolute horrific return on investment for organic social media tweeting is not a strategy for anyone that's interested uh what you need to focus on is SEO has a 202% return on ad spend paid ads has 155% return on ad spend and email has 127% return on ad spend do SEO paid ads and email in that order if your CMO tells you to do anything different they don't know what they're talking about next build product number two at 10 million ARR or below 40% year-over-year growth when we first started time doctor about a year and a half into it we decided to build this other company which is called staff.com and we thought that in the two-sided Marketplace space everyone was doing it wrong and we would do it right so we ended up building this URL uh we we bought this URL which was very expensive it was like 550 Grand and we built this two-sided Market Place year one we were doing 86,000 Mr year two we were doing 112,000 Mr so the business completely collaps in on itself and while that was happening time doctor was growing at 60% year-over-year no problem whatsoever and we were applying no marketing no engineering resources into it it was just running so focus on your winners don't start losers before you actually scale up your winners if you have something that's working just keep doing it I know that Founders hate that but keep doing it next more than 10 million ARR you are a retention company you are not a customer acquisition company I don't know if anyone uses chartmogul here we use it a couple people so these are our numbers in 2019 you can see that new Revenue which is the dark blue section was about 40% of our overall Revenue breakdown in 2023 it was about 15% of our overall Revenue breakdown we are an expansion company now we are not a user acquisition company so we've deployed a lot more resources to CS making sure that we retain our customers making sure that they're happy as we just talked about in the previous talk what to measure cessat MPS net retention referral rate we actually have an MPS of over 56 right now so we're doing quite a bit better than uh alvero which is obviously something else that I could talk to you about um next one brand is the most important thing PL past 10 million ARR I really do believe this so when covid happened a lot of companies just went and bought our product because they were like well we don't really have a remote team but we identify what you guys do which is time tracking remote workers and then when covid happened we just saw a massive massive influx of Revenue coming in and we didn't really know where it was coming from but we recognized longterm that it was from our brand impression and if you have a company that's worth more than 10 million R particularly if you have a large customer base let's say more than 10,000 customers they're going to talk and that referral engine is something that's going to feed you to 100 million in my opinion how do you test this well you increase prices and you see if they stay that's one of the best ways to test that uh we did that through experimentation and we actually was one of those things that we should have done it 10 years ago and we didn't do it we realized that there was almost no impact on conversion in churn by raising our prices by 20% Which just automatically raised Revenue by 20% next product Le first sales Le later so this is a bit of a story of March of 2020 and everyone kind of knows what happened in March of 20 the entire econ completely imploded exploded exploded for remote work imploded for everything else so February of 2020 we were doing about 20,000 in new business Mr by um March we were doing 115,000 in new business mrr and by April we were doing 212,000 in mrr we literally took the sales team that was working on about 10% of all deals and we said if you're working on an $100,000 AR deal would be important to that sales team and we all of a sudden said only work on million dollar deals so the product Le engine actually converted all of those customers 98% of our customers were converting through our product LE model where a lot of our competitors didn't have that and they basically wasted all of those leads where we ended up actually being able to get them funny story we had um a G20 country literally Deploy on our software um through a plg model I don't know how the credit card worked but they deployed 500,000 employees on the system and we went down for like an hour and a half it was absolutely insane and then we called them and we were like stop stop doing this we're going to shut down your account we'll try to onboard you properly and that resulted in 202% growth in 2020 but again by focusing on the actual plg base we could have our sales team focus on the cream on the top and a sales team is going to cost you a couple million dollars to really deploy at scale so it's incredibly important that you keep those costs small you build the product so it can sell itself and then you add the sales team on top next pay less attention to competitors here's a couple slides to be able to reinforce this this is um forb statista top reasons why startups fail there's also something from fractal again this is just stuff that I Googled get out competed is the fourth and eth e top reason um why startups fail Rano to cash is the second most important one if you're bootstrapped you don't run out of cash because you live within your means and you don't have to actually invest in time in raising capital and going after all of these I mean you guys know that of raised Capital it sucks up a ton of energy and time and so by removing that and focusing on just building and servicing customers that don't even know that your solution exists particularly if you're an early side of the um crossing the chasm process you're going to be much more successful than focusing on your competitors that maybe own 2% of the overall Market when you own 1% of the overall Market next and this is the most important one Founders will try to self sabotage if things are going well in the business you're going to do stupid stuff to screw it up and I think the reason why is because Founders really like chaos the company was born out of chaos it was a very chaotic process to be able to say we're going to do this thing that no one's ever done before and I'm going to do absolutely every job inside of the organization you're going to do stupid stuff like you're going to build a product that has no correlation to your original customer base you're going to not answer emails properly you're not going to work on Partnerships the way that you should have been you're just not going to focus on the things that matter because either consciously or subconsciously you want to be able to sabotage the business because when you sabotage the business there's more chaos and then you are in a state of chaos which makes you unhappy consciously but very unhappy subconsciously and it breaks down into two big categories either number one you believe subconsciously that you don't deserve to build a billion dooll business or number two you have limiting beliefs so your friends your your your cousins um your parents whoever it is they don't want you to succeed and that intrinsically becomes a problem for you I had to work on this actually for years I was scared of telling people that I'm rich and it's one of those things that even triggers me right now because I think to myself oh rich people are lazy that just kind of sit around all day and don't do anything but the reality is that that was subconsciously holding me back from actually saying well I want to build a billion doll company and I want to be able to execute on that strategy and not become something that I hate and that took a lot of therapy to be able to solve it one last story I'll leave you with I had a friend of mine and I went to his office and literally in his office he had a little sticky note that read your mother truly believes you deserve this you to put it up there just to be able to get past that mental block if you're having that type of mental block right now talk to me off stage I'm happy to be able to help you spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on therapy to hopefully change that type of mindset in my own head but it's so important to be able to get past that self-sabotage because you will not succeed otherwise um the books didn't get here unfortunately I was supposed to do a book signing but they were not shipped in time but if you have any other questions that QR code has all of the documentation that I just went through and including this talk and uh if anyone wants to chat with me I'll be around thanks a lot [Music]

Intro I want to start this talk off with a question that I've had off the top of my head for going on almost three years now and if you are a remote founder you probably have had the same question in your head as well this question is why did some companies not just survive but thrive during the pandemic how did some companies seem to defy all of this assumptions that we made about work because to be completely honest with you we didn't have any office parties during the pandemic we didn't have any team building lunches during the pandemic I didn't get a birthday cake on my birthday company didn't buy me one of those uh I also didn't get any pizza Thursdays I didn't even get any nap rooms during the pandemic although I did sleep a lot more often pre-pandemic than post-pandemic or post pandemic so why did some companies not just survive but thrive during the pandemic to explain this we need to actually talk about what actually happened during that pandemic so Remote Work Trends what happened in March of 2020 I love to show people this slide there's a buddy of mine's corporate VPN company for remote workers that's what happened during March of 2020 he forexed his business in three days and here's an even scarier number in February of 2020 four percent of the US Workforce was working remotely by March 45 of the U.S Workforce was working remotely that's the biggest shift in Works since the Industrial Revolution but the Industrial Revolution took 80 years and we did that in March so more than that Google has this like fantastic data set that I love to show people on Mobility changes over time Unfortunately they did take it down because they don't want everyone to know that every single smartphone that you carry is collecting all of this metadata they still do it they just took down the reports but thankfully I was able to get a pull off of it and this is retail and Recreation over time as you can see we had the pandemic we had a huge drop off and then we had a return to the mean this is Park usage actually where I'm from in Canada but again it applies almost everywhere in the Western World we had a big pop-up and now where we are turning to the mean with regards to parks this is workplace attendance I don't know if any of you guys are statisticians but that graph looks a little bit different from everyone else's so from the peak in March of 2020 at 45 of the workforce working remotely dependent upon the data source that you look at and there's lots of different data sources out there today 26 to 44 of the US Workforce is currently working remotely and he isn't even crazier statistic that number is going back up so by 2027 it's projected to be 50 of the US Workforce and actually by 2030 we're projected to be at 62 percent depending upon the data set that you take a look at so if you're thinking remote work is just this Remote Work is permanent singular thing that happened during coven and we're all going to go back to the office the harsh reality is that you have to actually adapt to that business model right now now I have a bit of a crazier statement to make a lot of people that hear this think I'm kind of nuts but I believe that remote work is a permanent civilizational shift I think that it's a consequence of the internet that's maybe even more important than the internet itself now you might think to yourself that's just some weird guy talking to you and he loves remote work so this is uh you don't want to put any weight on that it's not actually me that's Mark Andreessen from Andreessen and Horowitz who is arguably the best investor in the history of Western Civilization so even though Mark Andreessen is a genius I'm going back to that same problem why did some companies not just survive but Thrive during the pandemic and a couple years ago I actually figured out the answer I had that aha moment and it completely changed my perspective on how remote work is currently done and how we operate remotely inside of our company I was so passionate about it that I took two years to write this which is uh my book Running remote where I interviewed dozens of seven eight and nine figure remote first entrepreneurs and understood what they do differently from everyone else that transitioned towards remote work and as it turns out remote companies they work in a way that's so alien to you that if I described it to you most of people that see this talk or read my book the biggest response that I get is you're full of like this is not actually the way that people operate their businesses but it is the way that they operate their businesses and it's just based off this singular simple relatively counter-intuitive rule now we've also seen this and I've gotten a lot of comments from people as I've been walking around talking about remote work there's a very aggressive and I would honestly border on conspiratorial pushback to the office I see that Mark Zuckerberg just said after he basically cut another 20 of his Workforce that remote work may not be for him well to be honest with you when you completely change your corporation over to VR from social media there's probably going to be a couple bumps along the way here's the stats I have studied 17 remote studies that were published in 2021 on average remote workers are 13 more productive than their on-premise counterparts remote workers work on average a day more per week than their on-premise counterparts that can be good or bad we really don't know about that one and the craziest study this is 16 000 subjects out of Stanford over a nine month period identified that remote workers have an attrition rate that is 50 percent lower than their on-premise counterparts everyone here knows churn I'm telling you this is employee churn this is money in the bank so it's so great why are we seeing this push back to the office well let me first tell you a little bit about myself my name is Leah Martin I'm the co founder of timedoctorinstaff.com I'm also the co-organizer of running remote which is the largest conference on building and scaling remote teams we have employees in 28 different countries all over the world and we all work seamlessly based off of this fundamental rule that I discovered not just three years ago actually a little bit before that but the real focus of me trying to speak to you today is to understand how you can unlock this singular concept and that singular concept is something that I like to call Asynchronous Management asynchronous management so that's the practice of leading teams without simultaneously or synchronously communicating with them so work focuses on individual autonomy allowing all team members to maximize their own productivity without being dependent upon others to provide updates now let me give you an example I don't know how old everyone else is in the audience but I remember watching Friends the TV show has anyone I mean obviously hopefully everyone has seen Friends the TV show thank you when I went to school 8 30 pm on Friday is when you would watch friends and if I showed up at school on Monday not watching friends I was exercised from from my class Community everyone was talking about that episode oh what did Ross do to Chandler I don't really know I can't remember it was so Fargo it was so far back but the reality is that if I didn't show up at 8 30 to sit my butt down on the couch and watch friends I had to wait six months before there was a rerun that is synchronous communication today we have things like Netflix Netflix is asynchronous communication the information is available for us when we want to consume it not when it's most advantageous to the organization to be able to to deliver it to you this is effectively a synchronous management this is the concept that almost all successful remote teams were using before the pandemic and there are simply three singular tenants that I go over in the book that I want to review with you right now first off is deliberate over Deliberate Communication communication the second one is what I like to call democratized workflows and the third is detailed metrics I call them 3DS my publisher wanted me to call them that but I think it's kind of stupid so deliberate democratized and detailed first off my friend Nathan Berry who spoke at our conference about six months ago he's put this much better than me there are two types of companies there's remote first and remote forced so which one are you in if you're in a zoom call eight hours a day you're getting slack notifications on your phone at 9 00 PM you're told to report to your weekly company team culture meeting where you sit around a zoom call and you play guards Cards Against Humanity but not the fun one by the way the one that's like HR approved that isn't actually enjoyable for anybody you're in a remote forced culture this is exactly counter too deliberate over communication I don't know if you guys know Simon sinek the find your y talk which is I think one of the most famous talks on Ted this is a infographic from a company called duist which is a very famous asynchronous remote company and they really focus on understanding why everyone is trying to measure culture through how you work together when in reality you actually need to focus on why you're doing the work what impact do you have as an organization and that needs to feed through every single person in your company identifying why you're here why the work that you do matters why you think that this company is doing great things will literally change the world that's all a deliberate form of communication that most companies that are remote don't truly understand effectively you need to get your culture locked in order to be able to run remotely Write Asynchronous Communication second is you need to build a culture of written asynchronous communication so in our company everything that can be documented is documented so that you are no longer the actual manager of the company the platform is the manager of the company so if someone asks me for researching for this book I was able to be a fly on the wall for a company called get lab multi-billion dollar company public now incredibly successful they don't do meetings at all I have a couple thousand people they don't do meetings so I was able to be put inside of their Organization for a couple days and I started asking questions and whenever I ask a question they would respond with a link so oh what's the HR policy for the organization it's this here's the link uh well how do you guys run your your operations in APAC region here's the link and so after about nine or ten of these questions uh someone jumped on to an actual synchronous call with me basically a slack chat and they said hey dude you need to stop asking questions like you don't really understand how this system works you're being disruptive to your managers and I was like I'm being disruptive to the manager I thought the manager's job was to be able to actually give me the information he's like no no your responsibility is to understand the platform so that you can answer your own questions so you can leave those managers up to be able to do more meaningful work one of the most interesting statistics that I found in researching this book asynchronous remote organizations have on average a managerial layer that is 50 thinner than their on-premise counterparts so there are less managers doing more work and they have by extension a more profitable business model so essentially when you build a culture of written documentation there are no private conversations everyone can be everywhere at once all of that documentation is open to everybody you basically come up with a company where you have like if you had like a business archaeologist you'd be able to take that person put them inside of your company and say why was this feature built two and a half years ago you'd be able to go into my base camp threads go into my sauna boards go into my jira and actually tell me the answer that oh it was Bridget that built that and uh we fired Bridget three months after she made that decision so why are we actually thinking about this as a new feature or something that we should add on inside of the organization so it allows you to be able to have a history inside of your organization again without no one holding that sacred knowledge there's a process for doing it I call it the 4ds again the D's my publisher really like these discover design deploy and debug the beginning process you discover the actual process why is it there why does it exist spoiler the vast majority of the time the process is there because the founder or the VP or the c-level executive just put it in place it's not that it's actually any good so you actually have to figure out how to design it the second stage is you go to the design stage the first time that you do something you do it for yourself the second time that you do it you think about turning it into a process and the third time you turn it into a process reason why you don't do it a hundredth time is because you forget all of those small details and building out the process the reason why you don't do it the first time is because you don't know how to do it you take that process bring it to your team and you deploy it you do not ask your team do you like this process they'll all say yes and then they'll never use it ever again what you say instead is what are three things that I can do to improve this process document that's it three things you're then in the debug stage and then you go back through design deploy and debug till you get to a perfect process where you're getting no more meaningful feedback Detailed Metrics third thing detailed metrics every single person in the company must have at least one longitudinal and quantifiable metric that they report on weekly and here's the tricky part this is the part that and I love that this is a conference for Founders because this is the part that's really going to piss you off you need to take those metrics and you need to give it to everyone in the company ideally giving everyone the same informational Advantage as the CEO of the company so I know probably the vast majority of you are not going to do that because you're very scared about giving that information over like hey the raise didn't work out properly or churn is looking a lot worse we might have to do some Cuts but the reality is that if you arm everyone with that type of information they start to act like CEOs they start having a lot more autonomy in their decision making and it's not because you're smarter than anyone else it's because you have an informational Advantage async synchronous companies give people access to everything inside of their companies so here's a couple examples this is our leadership meeting here are our core values we go over that every single day we do it inside of Asana the vast majority of the time we actually make sure we have something called Silent meetings so basically if we go to our issues here these are our company rocks these are our issues I pulled this this week uh first one is FB svb could be a huge opportunity for us we want to buy some companies if everything melts and uh goes into the if we have less than three issues that we have not discussed asynchronously and completed we automatically delete the meeting so we meet on average about two out of every four meetings per month and also counter-intuitively the issues that always stick up there are generally issues that are connected to HR Susan doesn't like Jack Jack thinks that Charlie's an idiot those are the ones that usually stay on and we have to actually work them out synchronously but generally for us we don't meet we have these silent meetings where we debate all these issues asynchronously we come to a conclusion and we're able to move forward and here are some of our top metrics I pulled these off of literally this week we've got Andy who is in charge of marketing we've got Rodrigo in charge of growth we've got Charles in Charge in charge of sales and Nina in charge of success every single person is measured by these and then all of those links lead to other opening metrics for department heads inside of the company so if you implement async this is what's going to happen you're going to have greater inclusivity in culture exchange you're going to have women and minorities become leaders in your organization Charisma bias disappears this is my this is my Captain America story basically if you go into a meeting and you see eight people I don't even have to hear what they have to say usually it's the six foot five guy that looks like Captain America that ends up having his ideas adopted it's not because he has better ideas it's because he's actually charismatic and he's able to communicate his ideas more effectively asynchronous removes that ability hiring becomes faster leadership will be agnostic to anything but results you'll have a global talent pool which means better Talent period we hire in 28 different countries and managers will stop paying attention to presence and instead on results so remote work in my opinion gives employers and employees the opportunity to find the best of each other remote work is not going away so I suggest that you adapt now I'm going to be doing a book signing over there if you want to get a free book let me know if you want to come to running remote let me know thanks a lot foreign